neongrey

Waning, Ch5s1 revision, Chapter 7 (see text for warning)

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I've yanked out scene 1 of chapter 5 since the whole of my revisions are there, and mostly in the first half of it; this is just a spot cleanup rather than a draft iteration. Please do consider it in relation to the original version of the scene if you read it, and to how it affects the negotiations in 6.

7-8-9 are to be very short, single-scene chapters (in truth, they do have a linkage in theme so they *could* all be the same chapter but people seemed to have trouble with demarked POV shifts within a chapter last time around) and 7's done, so I've included it also. If all goes to plan I will probably pair 8 and 9. 7 introduces our last planned POV, giving both 'halves' of the story a primary and secondary. I think it also fails reverse Bechdel, which isn't a thing that exists, but that just occurred and made me smile.

I think I've smoothed out the 'mysterious people talking mysteriously' aspect of the chapter but since both characters involved have a fairly strong sense of opsec they are being kind of oblique. In this case, 'I don't know what they're talking about' isn't so helpful so much as 'I don't care what they're talking about' and 'ugh this just sounds like you're witholding information'.

Anyway, 7 is a scene of sexual harrassment. Heads up.

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And a minor continuity note, that should be Senator Ralista at the end, not Riruna. That's what I get for working on different chapters concurrently.

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Going to have to do these in chunks, due to forgetting I had other obligations this evening.

Chapter five reads cleanly. I have no quibbles with it save that I'm not sure what it adds to the story. The chapter with Melqueth is so dynamic and interesting, and could probably stand without this excerpt. Are you maybe trying to lay the groundwork for these two ladies to have a relationship? It would give an additional interest thread.

More tomorrow on the other document!

As I go

(chapter five first): still enjoy the bit about her ex-girlfriend

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Iluya's something close to a main character, yeah; she starts a little backgrounded but she's a key conspirator. And, well. I was quite literal about my org chart...

But otherwise I feel like I want a bit more of Lasila lawyering (her identity as a professional is pretty personally important to her), more visible Iluya (and more of her waffling between boldness and timidity), and I feel like some of the stuff in 6 benefits from additional context as well as from giving some of where Lasila's methodology is coming from, but I don't want to bulk up 6 so much.

I did feel like I had to keep Lasila griping about her ex, though, lol. It's a good anecdote. Still think the ex dodged a bullet though.

Edited by neongrey
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Chapter 5
pg 2: "Do you want to marry Senator Linphori? I know the intent is that you will, but if you like, I can try to structure these clauses to give you whatever space you need."
--This is much better, very clear and to the point. It leads into the next discussion nicely.

pg 2: Children: This explanation will help along the next chapter as well.

Overall, this read a lot cleaner, and kept my attention better. The conversation about Iluya needing more than one person was well done, and when all the secrets and embarrassment about it are laid out, I think it gives better definition to both characters.


Chapter 7
Header - Interesting. We haven't heard anything about the stone or what it does, unless I'm missing something. Sound like Linphori is a powerful house.

pg 1: a little hazy who's POV this is. I almost missed the first clue and was thinking it was Adrichel's POV to start.

pg 2: "She could keep experimenting, get devoured by a demon sometime within the next three weeks."
--eh? Is Iluya experimenting with shudkathra magic? 

So...the relationships are rather arcane. Eshrin is sleeping with Iluya and with Adrichel, while also escorting Lasila to the party?
Adrichel comes off as a lot more creepy and manipulative here than in the last chapter, but this does set up how Lasial is being maneuvered into places of power. Glad to see more of how things are working in the background. I know last time that was one of my big confusion points.

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1 hour ago, Mandamon said:

Chapter 5
pg 2: "Do you want to marry Senator Linphori? I know the intent is that you will, but if you like, I can try to structure these clauses to give you whatever space you need."
--This is much better, very clear and to the point. It leads into the next discussion nicely.

Cool, cool. My original worry writing the chapter was that going too far into the nitty-gritty would just get repetitive, but I am pretty satisfied with how it's shaking out now.

And too I think I can't hammer in the marriage-as-business-transaction hard enough. It's just not super natural to most readers with our current way of looking at things. But there's certain cliches I want to avoid in demonstrating this (the couple-who-married-for-love-in-a-society-that-doesn't-usually-do-that-sort-of-thing-and-look-at-how-different-and-probably-better-they-are sort of thing. it's not a society that disdains love in the slightest, but i definitely want a looser correlation between that and marriage and doing it like that undermines the normativity) so it's some careful phrasing here

1 hour ago, Mandamon said:

pg 2: Children: This explanation will help along the next chapter as well.

Overall, this read a lot cleaner, and kept my attention better. The conversation about Iluya needing more than one person was well done, and when all the secrets and embarrassment about it are laid out, I think it gives better definition to both characters.


Chapter 7
Header - Interesting. We haven't heard anything about the stone or what it does, unless I'm missing something. Sound like Linphori is a powerful house.

Not missing anything, no. What this sort of ties into, and this hasn't come super up and won't be more than touched on because it's not super relevant to the story at hand, is that the reason the city's built into the side of a mountain is that it's actually built on top of the ruins of another city that crashed into the mountain when the magic that made it fly failed.

It is tied, loosely, to the accursed people line epigraph on five, for what that's worth.

1 hour ago, Mandamon said:

pg 1: a little hazy who's POV this is. I almost missed the first clue and was thinking it was Adrichel's POV to start.

Can probably reframe it a little bit, if it takes too long to become clear.

1 hour ago, Mandamon said:

pg 2: "She could keep experimenting, get devoured by a demon sometime within the next three weeks."
--eh? Is Iluya experimenting with shudkathra magic? 

Yes, but she's not the subject of the sentence (the breadcrumbs there are Iluya and geometry, and Adrichel wondering what she's noticed, but these are more of a so-it-isn't-out-of-nowhere-when-we-get-there rather than a thing-i-intend-to-be-predictable sort of thing). I was looking at that earlier too, thinking I should rephrase that; should be a breezy reference to Lasila.

1 hour ago, Mandamon said:

So...the relationships are rather arcane. Eshrin is sleeping with Iluya and with Adrichel, while also escorting Lasila to the party?

Yes, though if it's not fully clear by now that the escort is a fairly prefunctory thing with neither obligation nor anyone being particularly happy about it, it will definitely become so.

1 hour ago, Mandamon said:

Adrichel comes off as a lot more creepy and manipulative here than in the last chapter, but this does set up how Lasial is being maneuvered into places of power. Glad to see more of how things are working in the background. I know last time that was one of my big confusion points.

Good, good. He's definitely creepy and manipulative, but he's also good enough at it that to someone like Lasila who doesn't know him, that won't be very obvious. Eshrin's a POV that needs to be used sparingly because he's a lot closer to the heart of the conspiracy but he's got an angle on it that really no one else has. Which is really why he gets the nod over, say, Iluya (who must have a pov, but not, I think, in this book), because at this point Iluya's take on things is going to be a bit too similar to Lasila's.

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I'm back! Well, on a treadmill, so typos will abound, but back nonetheless. 

Overall

Enjoyable, and good pace. I had no issues following and liked the tidbits dropped. Reverse Bechdel not so much a concern of mine. :P

 

As I go (I had to double space to read while walking, so take that into account with page numbers)

- ooh, Adrichel is delightfully scummy

- page three: ah, this is what I was missing in previous drafts. Solid plot and foreshadowing. Lovely

- The paragraph starting with this: Eshrin's lips deepen into a more noticable gets a little too navel gazing. It was hard to stay focused.

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1 hour ago, kaisa said:

Reverse Bechdel not so much a concern of mine. :P

Indeed. But realizing it took twenty-five thousand words for there to be a conversation between two men, and then for it to fail reverse Bechdel warms my misandrist little heart. :D

1 hour ago, kaisa said:

- ooh, Adrichel is delightfully scummy

and regrettably, as far as not-real people go, I have a type........... I suppose better fictional scumbags than real ones.

1 hour ago, kaisa said:

- The paragraph starting with this: Eshrin's lips deepen into a more noticable gets a little too navel gazing. It was hard to stay focused.

Hmm, the one where he's simultaneously bent out of shape at Lasila for having gone for the reveal thing, and at Adrichel for having been pleased about it? I can look at that.

Thanks!

Edited by neongrey
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Chapter 5 

- Chapter 5 works well for me. I like the legal aspect of it already so I really didn't have any qualms with it. I did feel the pacing was a bit better.

Chapter 7

- The first paragraph has a couple errors. It reads better as "The senator is looking out the window" and "But it is a constant with him". Otherwise, it's a bit confusing.

- Adrichel really comes off as a jerk in this section - which I know was your intention with the harassment - but he might be a little too much of a jerk. 

- I would have liked to have seen Eshrin's response to his comment about being just as petty as he is. The scene feels a little too mute, too one-sided with a response - even an internal one.

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7 hours ago, rdpulfer said:

- Chapter 5 works well for me. I like the legal aspect of it already so I really didn't have any qualms with it. I did feel the pacing was a bit better.

cool, yeah, i think 5 is right on track now.

7 hours ago, rdpulfer said:

- The first paragraph has a couple errors. It reads better as "The senator is looking out the window" and "But it is a constant with him". Otherwise, it's a bit confusing.

i think i prefer the first sentence as-is but you're right, the second's missing an it, lol, thanks.

7 hours ago, rdpulfer said:

- Adrichel really comes off as a jerk in this section - which I know was your intention with the harassment - but he might be a little too much of a jerk. 

Do you mind elaborating in what way? I'm not terribly concerned by this unless it strains credulity but I'm curious as to where you're seeing as the line.

7 hours ago, rdpulfer said:

- I would have liked to have seen Eshrin's response to his comment about being just as petty as he is. The scene feels a little too mute, too one-sided with a response - even an internal one.

Hmmm. I'll think it over.

Thanks!

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Adrchel's harassment works, but it feels a little incredoulous that Eshrin wouldn't have a bigger reaction to him as the scene drags on. I think that's why it feels a bit muted to me. 

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Hmmm. In that case then, I think I'm probably okay with it. The culture runs emotionally restrained (by now well-established); there's baggage (which half the scene is about); Adrichel has him conditioned to not do anything (which half the scene is also about); and the question of 'well, why doesn't he do something about it' is in large part the core of Eshrin's arc. So I think we're in a good place there. Thanks for clarifying!

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I didn't read the new chapter 5 (sorry!) but I did read Chapter 7 and I thought it had great tension and pacing.  I was super interested and I really enjoyed getting to see behind the curtain a bit, especially after how weird it was in the last chapter that Adrichel set Lasila and Eshrin up to go to this dance.

On December 13, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Mandamon said:

Eshrin is sleeping with Iluya and with Adrichel

Is this what's happening?  It wasn't that clear to me.  But I tend to assume so much innocence into these introductory scenes that you might have to whack me over the head for me to be 100% sure. :)

16 hours ago, rdpulfer said:

Adrchel's harassment works, but it feels a little incredoulous that Eshrin wouldn't have a bigger reaction to him as the scene drags on. I think that's why it feels a bit muted to me.

I agree.  I see what you're saying in your response - this is a conditioned behavior - but I think the line "Adrichel will not bring her into this discussion. Eshrin will not permit it" led me to expect that he was going to stand up for himself, and then he didn't, and instead of thinking "Oh, he's super under Adrichel's thumb" I was thinking "Hmm I don't get this person."  I think it's just the small details that didn't gel.  Otherwise I thought it was a fascinating relationship and I loved learning about the background and behind-the-scenes workings.

Everything was interesting in a mysterious way.  Some parts I had to re-read but otherwise none of it gave me the "I'm lost" feeling.

 

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On 16/12/2016 at 11:27 AM, Hobbit said:

Is this what's happening?  It wasn't that clear to me.  But I tend to assume so much innocence into these introductory scenes that you might have to whack me over the head for me to be 100% sure.

In this I'd rather not, but, oh, we'll be back to both these subjects, lol. (Adrichel's literally breathing in Eshrin's ear, interlacing their fingers, and there's literally a line of narration where eshrin goes, basically 'i'd be reciprocating, work or no, if i could still trust him', I'm not sure I could hammer it more without including a sex scene, lol)

On 16/12/2016 at 11:27 AM, Hobbit said:

I think it's just the small details that didn't gel.

Hmmm. I'll give it an eyeball.

Thanks!

Edited by neongrey
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Comments.

  • The senator's looking out his” – I stumbled over this as I doggedly tried to make it possessive. I felt the contraction was out of place.

Short and ‘sweet’. I enjoyed the spikey dialogue between these two, nicely done. I struggled a bit with the oblique references, I never felt I had a good grasp pf what they were talking about. I wonder to what extent there is a danger that the characters are being oblique because the author wants them to and that, in fact, they would be more likely to be a bit more direct and clear with each other what they were talking about.

So, I find it helpful to try and set down what I took away from that. Adri and Esh have a close relationship, clearly physical. They are in some way in league with the priestess and are setting up Rien in some way. What clause are they so pleased about? I couldn’t work that one out, but I think the one that permitted Ilu and Rien to ‘see other people’?

I liked that this chapter revealed something more of what is going on, I would just have liked a bit more clarity.

<R>

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On 12/12/2016 at 7:31 PM, neongrey said:

Anyway, 7 is a scene of sexual harrassment. Heads up.

Really? I didn't get that. I mean I got that Esh was unhappy with Adri's attentions, but I didn't feel that Esh recoiled mentally, and there were no physical signs. I thought that they had had a physical relationship, possibly still did, but were working together, rather than Esh being subjugated by Adri. Esh's motivations were not all that clear to me. Did he feel obligated to Adri? Unsure.

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12 minutes ago, Robinski said:

I wonder to what extent there is a danger that the characters are being oblique because the author wants them to and that, in fact, they would be more likely to be a bit more direct and clear with each other what they were talking about.

This is one of those things I generally have an eye to when I go to redraft, not just with these two. Recent... current events have generally gotten it through to me that if characters are perhaps a little less concerned with opsec it won't strain credulity; the aelin do love being oblique but neither do they have a culture of surveilance. That said there's definitely aspects of this conversation that are simply avoiding maid-and-butler dialogue; they know perfectly well what they're talking about.

16 minutes ago, Robinski said:

What clause are they so pleased about? I couldn’t work that one out, but I think the one that permitted Ilu and Rien to ‘see other people’?

Like this one-- so you have read everything fairly close together fairly recently, so did you feel it wasn't sufficiently reinforced up to this point, that Iluya's mandatorially polyamorous, and that Rienri's aware of that and okay with it? I felt this was covered fairly thoroughly in 5 and 6.

Also, goodness, if you get the chance, do you mind going back and calling out more specifically what makes it seem like they're both pleased? That should definitely not come off that way.

23 minutes ago, Robinski said:

Really? I didn't get that. I mean I got that Esh was unhappy with Adri's attentions, but I didn't feel that Esh recoiled mentally, and there were no physical signs.

Adrichel's pretty continually invading invading Eshrin's personal space, touching him in sexualized ways, etc, persistently despite Eshrin's nonreaction; it's harrassment, not assault.

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2 minutes ago, neongrey said:

I felt this was covered fairly thoroughly in 5 and 6.

No, I think it was clear enough. I would have read this right through rather than 2 or 3 days apart, so any lingering doubt would likely not have occurred.

4 minutes ago, neongrey said:

do you mind going back and calling out more specifically what makes it seem like they're both pleased?

I'll go back, but 'pleased' was the wrong word to use. Satisfied? Content that their plan was on track? 'Pleased' definitely was the wrong word to use. My bad.

6 minutes ago, neongrey said:

it's harrassment, not assault.

Again, fair enough. I guess Esh is sufficiently bound to Adri that he can't avoid him or their association. Never did I get a sense that Esh was content with the attentions. That was perfectly clear.

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1 minute ago, Robinski said:

I'll go back, but 'pleased' was the wrong word to use. Satisfied? Content that their plan was on track? 'Pleased' definitely was the wrong word to use. My bad.

Thanks! My concern here is really that Eshrin should at no point come off the slightest bit okay with literally anything Adrichel's saying here. He is a man whose gruntle has been loose for quite some time and is finally becoming disengaged.

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So, having re-read Chp. 5r1, I see also certain things that led to me questioning the harassment thing.

"He moves to stand behind Adri, looking at their distorted reflections in the window" - Esh moving into close proximity to Adri seems to me inconsistent with him having a 'fear' of intimacy or inappropriate / unwanted contact.

"He runs his tongue against the inside of his lower lip, tasting the memory of rust from his interventions" - This seemed to me a bit suggestive. I guess that was me projecting, but still, he's standing beside Adri a 'licking his lips'. He's also recalling defending Adri, physically it appears, which suggests a significant degree of attachment, albeit in the past.

And then this "There was a time when that touch would have been welcome, even mutual" - clearly indicating previous intimacy between the two, I thought. I thought that this pushed against the harassment thing, although not necessarily disproving it.

"Tell me you're not thinking of the look on Rien's face. Thought you'd want to thank me for that one." He does smile now" - Here is an instance where Adri, clearly, seems to be satisfied (if not pleased) with what they've achieved, specifically, placing Esh with Ilu - I thought. Also, it seems to me that Adri suggests that Esh should be satisfied (maybe not pleased), with the position that he has with Ilu. Maybe they are doing a dirty job that must be done, but that they are not enjoying, still that need not mean that they can't be pleased with the progress they have made, which was the impression I was getting from Adri.

To me, the tone of their exchange, and the way that Esh speaks to Adri, suggests that Esh considers them to be familiar. Esh does not behave or speak as if he considers himself subservient to Adri, neither does he seems to fear Adri. On that basis, when I read "He reaches out, lightly setting his hand atop Esh's" - I think something like, 'Well, Esh hasn't taken his hand away, which I think he would be comfortable enough doing because of the way he speaks to Adri. Because of the lingering memory I have of some earlier time when they were familiar, I don't tend to think of this contact as harassment, because Esh has stood up to Adri verbally, so why not do so physically and take his hand away, if the contact is unwanted?

In relation to the point about them being pleased, okay, Esh clearly is nowhere near being pleased, but Adri jokes and smiles, coming over as satisfied and speaking about their that are going there way and falling into place. He talks about them (or Esh) taking satisfaction from the responses of others to certain outcomes. These are the cues that lead me to thinking that Adri at least might be pleased with how things are going.

"but his hand remains against the window beneath Adrichel's" - Their hands have been in contact for a long time now; if this is harassment, and bearing in mind how Esh addresses Adri, how can he tolerate the contact for so long if it is unwanted? So it must not be, entirely, even if Esh does not admit it. This is my thought process.

Then you come right out and state that Esh thinks Adri is pleased > "no hiding how pleased Adrichel had been by it" - Clearly, Esh knows Adri well enough that I should believe his assessment that Adri is pleased. 

So, yes, there is nothing to suggest that Esh is pleased, I 'misspoke' there, but my impression that Adri is pleased, which is supported - I think, must have spilled over into me bringing Esh into the comment, on the that he didn't repel or seem particularly to be repelled by, Adri.

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Thanks for going back on this. So yeah, my concern from your initial reading there was a lot that these two's reactions were appearing as a unit, when they both have very different opinions on what's going on here and on that contract.

4 hours ago, Robinski said:

So, having re-read Chp. 5r1, I see also certain things that led to me questioning the harassment thing.

"He moves to stand behind Adri, looking at their distorted reflections in the window" - Esh moving into close proximity to Adri seems to me inconsistent with him having a 'fear' of intimacy or inappropriate / unwanted contact.

This, though, oh, gosh, um. It seems like most of what i was wanting to come through in this scene is doing so so that's good on my end (that these two have a lot of baggage, that Adrichel is pleased and expects Eshrin to be pleased, but Eshrin is not) but some of the conclusions you're drawing are definitely making me uncomfortable. So I mean this is kind of up to the level where we're looking more at readings of the text rather than things to be corrected in the work, but, um. Because the conclusions you're drawing here are making me so uncomfortable. Just for clarity. It seems like your primary reasoning for why Adrichel's not sexually harrassing Eshrin here is that the two of them have a clear sexual history together and Eshrin's not physically removing himself from Adrichel's touch?

That's, um. Respectfully, I need to ask you to consider why it is necessary for Eshrin to physically fend off Adrichel in order for you to consider this scene as depicting Adrichel engaging in sexual harrassment. 

4 hours ago, Robinski said:

Their hands have been in contact for a long time now; if this is harassment, and bearing in mind how Esh addresses Adri, how can he tolerate the contact for so long if it is unwanted? So it must not be, entirely, even if Esh does not admit it. This is my thought process.

So Eshrin hasn't physically removed himself from the contact and they appear to have been in a relationship, therefore he must secretly want it. That because Eshrin's response to unwanted contact from an apparent long-term lover is to physically go nonresponsive and think of other things, Adrichel is not behaving inappropriately in this scene?

There is some play with reader expectation here, to be sure-- I suspect this scene might not feel so ambiguous to you on this level if Eshrin were a woman or if Adrichel were the physically more imposing of the two, but with all due respect, I think you might want to consider the attitudes that lead to you drawing these sorts of conclusions.

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6 hours ago, neongrey said:

therefore he must secretly want it...    Adri is not behaving inappropriately in this scene?

Not exactly - I haven't expressed what I'm thinking well enough. I think it is a question of fine degrees, and that we are in the same zone. I don't think Adri is behaving appropriately and, on balance, my take-away is that Esh does not want the contact. It's the distinction between, um, maybe nuisance/inconvenience and harassment that I was toiling with and trying (and failing) to get that across.

Does Esh want the contact? No. Is Adri being a pest? Yes. Is Esh disturbed by the contact? Yes, on some level, and that is where my doubts lie, the level of Esh's disturbance and from that, whether harassment was being conveyed by the scene. 

I didn't get the sense that Esh's reaction was as strong as say fearing the contact, or being repulsed by it. He doesn't appear to be afraid of Adri, so would he not have sufficient confidence in his own strength to move away? I think that's what I'm trying to get at. Esh seems to be a strong enough character that he would move away from Adri in that moment, or take his hand away, and would not move toward Adri in the first place if proximity was an issue. If he's not close enough to Adri, Adri can't touch him (without moving towards him).

I went in search of a definition of harassment and found "aggressive pressure or intimidation" from a straight G**gle search. I guess maybe I can see intimidation in Adri's actions, but I'm not sure it seemed conscious on Adri's part. Then the Free Dictionary says "the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of oneparty or a group, including threats and demands". This I can see in Adri's actions towards Esh, continued (you've said that this is a long-term tendency in Adri); unwanted (yes, I get that from the scene - but I think I would have preferred it to be stressed just a tiny bit more, fine degrees as I mentioned, for me anyway); and annoying (yes, to a degree, but again, I think I would have read the scene better, more clearly, if the flags had been slightly strengthened, maybe?)

I've gone back again to look at the section and this line stood out. "You're too-- openly familiar in front of the help." I read this as being capable of being interpreted in different ways. If Esh wants no contact at all, why differentiate with familiarity being in front of the help, why not just say, 'You're too familiar'? It almost implies that he thinks there is a time for familiarity between them, but then maybe I'm reading 'familiarity' wrongly now too. That's the very heart of my point, I think. They almost talk as if equal and I'm not seeing in Esh whatever emotion (fear, lack of self-confidence) it is that stops Esh from moving away from Adri and telling him, clearly, to stop.

Sorry to pick on that this, but I don't want to fail in getting my point across here, and you think I'm some sort of insensitive lug. I think it's the finest of details that is tripping me up in this scene.

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Um. At this point I really, really, really, really, really don't want to hear any more at all about why you don't think my content warning on this piece wasn't called for. 

I'm not talking about the submission here at all at this point. What you're saying isn't okay. It really isn't. 

Edited by neongrey
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6 hours ago, neongrey said:

I think you might want to consider the attitudes that lead to you drawing these sorts of conclusions.

This is fair comment, and that is sort of what I'm trying to do, I suppose. Yes, I am I suppose expecting that Esh, as the physically more imposing of the two, would have the strength to separate himself physically from Adri. Then again, I'm totally away that 'the big guy' is not necessarily the confident, assertive one in any situation, be it fictional or otherwise. I was bullied at primary school (age ~8/9). I'm 6 foot, not then obvs!! but I was taller than most and was bullied by a boy significantly shorter than me. I'm aware of this concept, and that is not the aspect of the exchange that led me to comment as I did originally. For me, it's purely how Esh speaks to Adri. Some examples:

"Yes. And yet, you would have me trifle with her." - I read some anger in that, some aggression. I interpreted this as Adri not being afraid of Esh

"You of all people should know better than to be so impulsive" - Adri is scolding Esh, it seemed to me, so not afraid of Adri's anger.

"Stop." - Okay, this is perhaps an instance where, if Esh was confident enough to be more assertive, he would have said more to try and make Adri stop.

"Esh will not permit it" - This sounds like a particularly strong thought from Esh, but I suppose it's only a thought and therefore perhaps hollow as a show of strength, compared to if he had said it.

"'Isn't about future planning' indeed." - Another open scold from Esh, it seemed to me.

"Esh allows" - He allows something of Adri, as if feeling his in control of that.

The penultimate paragraph is a more overt sign of Adri bullying, maybe my reading of the whole scene is too literal, but this paragraph seems more directly indicative of harassment, to me.

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Look, to be very very very very very very very very very clear: someone not reacting forcefully to unwanted sexual aggression does not mean they are okay with it, and it does not mean the act is not sexual harrassment. I apologize for asking for clarification; my need was to ensure my messaging is coming through as is intended and as of my original response, I believe that it is.

Sexual harrassment is a specific thing unto itself. It is different from harrassment.

Please, if you ever, ever in your life, in any context or situation, fiction, non fiction, ever, if you ever find yourself saying in any capacity that a person may want a sexualized contact "even if [they] might not admit it", that a "strong enough character" will only react in certain ways to unwanted sexualized contact, or that simply standing beside a person with whom one has had a sexual history is an invitation to unwanted sexualized contact, please, please stop what you are doing. For the sake of the people around you. I am not being hyperbolic.

I need to seriously consider if I'm going to be continuing submitting my work here. I'm feeling really uncomfortable with this situation at this point.

Edited by neongrey
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