2016-12-06 [Arcanum Unbounded] Herald Washington Library Center - Chicago, IL

[FirstSelector]

Interestingly, I was going to ask about the "stark red and violet cremling Kaladin notices in prison," but was beaten to the punch.  I find it quite funny that several people all came to the same conclusion.

[Volratho]

Okay here we go! 

Here are the audio files I have so far, these are the signing line and the Q&A session outside after the event.

Please note that I have only edited these files slightly. I removed one comment that Brandon made that he asked to be removed, and separated the one long file I had into to smaller files. The files are not the best audio quality due to where they recorded, the first being in a giant auditorium with lots of people (including a group of us usually not farther than 5 feet from the microphone), and then out on the streets of Chicago at 9pm in below freezing temps with wind, traffic, sirens, garbage trucks, and even a homeless woman who wanted money from us.

I will also be editing the first post of this thread with copies of the files as well to make them easier to find for other people.

Signing Line

Outside Q&A

Cleaned up version of the Outside Q&A

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by Volratho

[emailanimal]

1 minute ago, VirtuousTraveller said:

Where?  The Origin?  The Horneater Peaks?  That Honor's perpendicularity is mobile makes it seem like the highstorm is most probable, unless the Origin moves beyond the sea somewhere.  I'm not sure this helps us with Cultivation?

Since we have been told of  a certain someone appearing from a lake in Horneater Peaks, it is seems reasonable that that's a perpendicularity. We did not know whether it was Honor's or Cultivation's. It appears that since the lakes on the peaks are not really mobile, that they are Cultivation's perpindicularities.

[emailanimal]

1 hour ago, Segren said:

Easy enough with Kindle

31 mentions of cremlings in The Way of Kings, but nothing stood out.

38 mentions of cremlings in Words of Radiance, and 3 instances seem noteworthy:

Mraize shoots a cremling with a dart at the meeting in the wilderness (pg 627).

Kaladin and Syl see a cremling when Kal is in prison (pg 767).

Teft throws a rock at a cremling while they are standing vigil for Kaladin to return (pg 840).

I agree, these are suspicious.  In fact, we also have an MO now. Any character with  throwing things at a cremiling.

 

To add: these might not actually signify Dysian Aimians being around, but they may signify the awareness of Mraize and Teft of who Dysian Aimians are and their desire to keep the proceedings private.

Edited December 7, 2016 by emailanimal

[Pagerunner]

Usually, I listen to music while I'm working. I'll put something else on in the background instead, today...

One that jumped out at me:

Q: So, the entity that Harmony is, all the other Shards that we've had named so far, are any of them combinations? Or they all-

A: Okay, good question. The only one I would count as a combination is the Dor, right, but it isn't even a full Shard, right? So, everything else, single holder only when we talk about it, okay?

 

[Argent]

9 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Usually, I listen to music while I'm working. I'll put something else on in the background instead, today...

One that jumped out at me:

Q: So, the entity that Harmony is, all the other Shards that we've had named so far, are any of them combinations? Or they all-

A: Okay, good question. The only one I would count as a combination is the Dor, right, but it isn't even a full Shard, right? So, everything else, single holder only when we talk about it, okay?

I don't think this is very interesting - we now know that when Odium Splintered Devotion and Dominion, he trapped their power in Sel's Cognitive Realm in order to prevent it from gaining sapience or helping someone Ascend. I guess the thing we didn't have before is that in doing so, he also kind of... pressed... the powers together, because something something opposite powers something something (he talked about this in the General Q&A). So in that sense the Dor is Shard-like. The rest just confirms that Harmony is the only combination Shard.

[emailanimal]

11 minutes ago, Argent said:

I don't think this is very interesting - we now know that when Odium Splintered Devotion and Dominion, he trapped their power in Sel's Cognitive Realm in order to prevent it from gaining sapience or helping someone Ascend. I guess the thing we didn't have before is that in doing so, he also kind of... pressed... the powers together, because something something opposite powers something something (he talked about this in the General Q&A). So in that sense the Dor is Shard-like. The rest just confirms that Harmony is the only combination Shard.

 

I think the new piece here is that if someone were to try taking up Devotion's or Dominion's Intent, they would not be even able to do it, as no separate Investiture for each  exists anymore. There is now only Dor.

 

Which brings up a question: what's Dor's Intent?  Ruin+Preservation = Harmony.  Devotion+Dominion = ?   Patronage? 

 

[WeiryWriter]

4 minutes ago, emailanimal said:

I think the new piece here is that if someone were to try taking up Devotion's or Dominion's Intent, they would not be even able to do it, as no separate Investiture for each  exists anymore. There is now only Dor.

That's not how I understand the situation. In Arcanum Unbounded Khriss makes reference to the "polarized" nature of the Dor, which implies, to me at least two extremes there, which I would assume are areas of more Devotion and areas of more Dominion.

[Pagerunner]

22 minutes ago, Argent said:

I don't think this is very interesting - we now know that when Odium Splintered Devotion and Dominion, he trapped their power in Sel's Cognitive Realm in order to prevent it from gaining sapience or helping someone Ascend. I guess the thing we didn't have before is that in doing so, he also kind of... pressed... the powers together, because something something opposite powers something something (he talked about this in the General Q&A). So in that sense the Dor is Shard-like. The rest just confirms that Harmony is the only combination Shard.

 

8 minutes ago, emailanimal said:

 

I think the new piece here is that if someone were to try taking up Devotion's or Dominion's Intent, they would not be even able to do it, as no separate Investiture for each  exists anymore. There is now only Dor.

 

Which brings up a question: what's Dor's Intent?  Ruin+Preservation = Harmony.  Devotion+Dominion = ?   Patronage? 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Indefinite said:

That's not how I understand the situation. In Arcanum Unbounded Khriss makes reference to the "polarized" nature of the Dor, which implies, to me at least two extremes there, which I would assume are areas of more Devotion and areas of more Dominion.

That's exactly why I found this comment interesting - the way Brandon spoke about the Shards in AU and what I heard in Hoboken made it sound like they're separate, that the power of the Dor comes from pieces of two different Shards clashing together. However, here, he seems to describe the Dor as a single entity.

I'm typing up a topic on the conversation I had with him on Saturday about the two powers in Harmonium. (Just waiting on a recording so I can get the actual transcript.) He described the chemical reactivity of it, saying that it was because the two powers were contained in the same substance.

There must be a balance between the two; Sazed would drop Harmony if he died, and the Dor collectively powers all magic on Sel. On the other hand, Marsh still has atium, and Seons and Skaze are still things. So, maybe combining two Shards isn't a reverse-Shattering, but more of a mixture of two Shards' power. They're still distinct internally to a degree, and there is conflict associated with them, but they're unable to be separated. Still two Intents, but the body of Investiture cannot be separated anymore. Something along those lines.

[iceblade44]

24 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

 

 

That's exactly why I found this comment interesting - the way Brandon spoke about the Shards in AU and what I heard in Hoboken made it sound like they're separate, that the power of the Dor comes from pieces of two different Shards clashing together. However, here, he seems to describe the Dor as a single entity.

I'm typing up a topic on the conversation I had with him on Saturday about the two powers in Harmonium. (Just waiting on a recording so I can get the actual transcript.) He described the chemical reactivity of it, saying that it was because the two powers were contained in the same substance.

There must be a balance between the two; Sazed would drop Harmony if he died, and the Dor collectively powers all magic on Sel. On the other hand, Marsh still has atium, and Seons and Skaze are still things. So, maybe combining two Shards isn't a reverse-Shattering, but more of a mixture of two Shards' power. They're still distinct internally to a degree, and there is conflict associated with them, but they're unable to be separated. Still two Intents, but the body of Investiture cannot be separated anymore. Something along those lines.

Yeah thats the impression that i was getting, to me this is a hint of what kind of being Adonalsium was exactly. My theory that i was thinking of was that the 16 intents were a part of Adonalsium and wasn't just something that was created during the shattering. Each one was a distinct and independent part instead of just a division from a singular source. Sort of like parts of a machine, each part distinct and different but all is needed for the machine to be functional. At least thats my interpretation.  

Edited December 7, 2016 by iceblade44

[Argent]

8 minutes ago, iceblade44 said:

Yeah thats the impression that i was getting, to me this is a hint of what kind of being Adonalsium was exactly. My theory that i was thinking of was that the 16 intents were a part of Adonalsium and wasn't just something that was created during the shattering. Each one was a distinct and independent part instead of just a division from a singular source. Sort of like parts of a machine, each part distinct and different but all is needed for the machine to be functional. At least thats my interpretation.  

I think you might be wrong on this one. Recall that it's "plausible that Adonalsium could've Shattered into different Shards." To me, this suggests that Adonalsium was more of a piece of glass that shattered into the 16 pieces we got (and that could've shattered into different pieces had it fallen at a different time, in a different way), and not a machine made up of 16 parts that were... separated from each other, and will also be separated into the same 16 parts.

[emailanimal]

7 minutes ago, Argent said:

I think you might be wrong on this one. Recall that it's "plausible that Adonalsium could've Shattered into different Shards." To me, this suggests that Adonalsium was more of a piece of glass that shattered into the 16 pieces we got (and that could've shattered into different pieces had it fallen at a different time, in a different way), and not a machine made up of 16 parts that were... separated from each other, and will also be separated into the same 16 parts.

 

You took the words out of my mouth.... I agree here. While Adonalsium was whole, the 16 Intents did not exist as specific well-defined entities inside him.  My theory is that there are some sorts of atomic SubIntents, and each Shard's Intent as wee see them consists of multiple of such SubIntents (i.e., the Shattering could've reassigned the SubIntents to different Vessels).  However, it might have been more fluid than that.

 

The question is, where does it leave us. I still think that the new WoB basically equates Harmony (as Vessel-less Shard) with Dor in terms of structure.  This does not, as has been wisely pointed out, negate prior aspects of the Investiture of a single component: Seons, Skaze, atium, Hemalurgic spikes - they all still exist. Neither does it mean that, e.g., Sazed could not spin off a piece of atium or lerasium on demand.  But when it comes to holding the power or using it, it seems like you are dealing with a single entity.

[Jofwu]

1 hour ago, emailanimal said:

I think the new piece here is that if someone were to try taking up Devotion's or Dominion's Intent, they would not be even able to do it, as no separate Investiture for each  exists anymore. There is now only Dor.

 

56 minutes ago, Ookla the Indefinite said:

That's not how I understand the situation. In Arcanum Unbounded Khriss makes reference to the "polarized" nature of the Dor, which implies, to me at least two extremes there, which I would assume are areas of more Devotion and areas of more Dominion.

Calling the Dor "polarized" instantly made me think of a magnet. One thing made of two opposites. If you cut off the positive end of a magnet you don't get a piece that's "more positive". You get a smaller magnet with two polarized ends. I expect this is closer to Dor's nature.

[ccstat]

On the savant question: Here are the quotes from the audio (Outside Q&A)

Quote

 

timestamp ~34:00

Q. So, allomantic savants. When that happens is it purely physiological or is something else happening?

A. It's physiological in a cosmere sense, but that can involve your cognitive and spiritual aspect.

Q. Are there other similar processes to savantism in other magic systems?

A. Yeah. You've seen it. Soulcasters.

Q. Where their skin turns...

A. Well, where their spirit is slowly merged and infused with investiture that is having physical ramifications. It is the same thing.

 

timestamp ~42:00

Q Have we seen the Resonances of either Wax or Wayne?

A Yeah, you have. Wax is really good at sculpting bullets and things away from him.

Q The bubble.

A This is playing with the fact that he is... Let's just say the abilities make this happen, and I'll let you theorize on why, but it just is an enhancement to what he can do.

Q I ask because I thought you said that it was because he was becoming a steel savant.

A A savant, yeah. Definitely, but this is where it is coming from.

Q Being a savant has to do with being really good with one power.

A Yes

Q And Resonances are about the...

A Being a savant has to do with using investiture a lot. And it's starting to permeate your soul. Like we've talked...

Q So he is more of a savant with both of them?

A He's used them a lot. And they are changing his soul. And so the powers are morphing and changing. Just in slight little ways; you're not going to see a whole bunch. But you can imagine these two separate powers are kind of becoming one to him.

Q And Wayne?

A Wayne's is not as obvious. I'll go ahead and RAFO that right now.

 

I guess we jumped the gun a little on the idea that "savantism is not power-specific," but there is definitely some overlap here that still raises questions.

[Jofwu]

2 minutes ago, ccstat said:

I guess we jumped the gun a little on the idea that "savantism is not power-specific," but there is definitely some overlap here that still raises questions.

The gist seems to be that someone who "handles" Investiture (in one form or another) often and frequently is changed because of the impact it has on their spirit. Presumably that could be the physical nature of their body, their mental development, the way they think, their strength with powers, etc.

It's more complex and... biological?... than it is a simple "power up" in some ability.

[Argent]

I find the dual nature of savantism interesting here. Magic users in the Cosmere perform magic (i.e. use investiture to influence the Physical, more often than not, Realm), which can results in investiture sticking around their Spiritweb, which in turn results in them performing magic slightly differently. 

[What's a Seawolf?]

59 minutes ago, ccstat said:

Q And Wayne?

A Wayne's is not as obvious. I'll go ahead and RAFO that right now.

Random thought:  Could Wayne's be his ability to mimic speech patterns?  I know a popular Lift theory her 'bonus' is understanding languages, but why can't Wayne have something similar?  I think it even fits with the whole time dilation/healing (changing) your body thing he has going on.

[Argent]

9 minutes ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

Random thought:  Could Wayne's be his ability to mimic speech patterns?  I know a popular Lift theory her 'bonus' is understanding languages, but why can't Wayne have something similar?  I think it even fits with the whole time dilation/healing (changing) your body thing he has going on.

A very similar thing was disproved in the annotations (and maybe a WoB?) where Brandon explained that Wayne's ability to mimic people has nothing magical to it.

[Kurkistan]

4 minutes ago, Argent said:

A very similar thing was disproved in the annotations (and maybe a WoB?) where Brandon explained that Wayne's ability to mimic people has nothing magical to it.

Yup, he's method acting.

[Zmann966]

One of the biggest crowd-gasps:

(Paraphrased) "So you start walking around the planet, and your Spren follows, but they're also on Shadesmar... So when you pass a certain area, what happens to your spren? Shadesmar is [2 dimensional] and physical space is 3 dimensional..."
It's apparently very difficult for a surgebinder to take their spren off-planet...

...

YEAH.


WHAAAAAT DUDE?!

[Blightsong]

Does anyone have the reading audio? I've been dying to listen, and this is the last stop in the tour.

[Volratho]

7 minutes ago, Blightsong said:

Does anyone have the reading audio? I've been dying to listen, and this is the last stop in the tour.

The Library did a recording of it. As soon as I have it I will be posting it.

[Zmann966]

8 minutes ago, Blightsong said:

Does anyone have the reading audio? I've been dying to listen, and this is the last stop in the tour.

Yes! @Volratho talked the Library into recording the whole lecture, reading, and general Q&A! They'll be sending him the file (think it might be video too!) here soon!

EDIT Lol! You're a quick one! posted right as I did!

Edited December 8, 2016 by Zmann966

[Jazzy Kandra]

1 hour ago, Zmann966 said:

One of the biggest crowd-gasps:

(Paraphrased) "So you start walking around the planet, and your Spren follows, but they're also on Shadesmar... So when you pass a certain area, what happens to your spren? Shadesmar is [2 dimensional] and physical space is 3 dimensional..."
It's apparently very difficult for a surgebinder to take their spren off-planet...

Other than the 2 dimensional? nature of the Shadesmar (I'm guessing this is that Shadesmar is a plane and not a sphere, because none of the characters are literally 2 dimensional when they're in it...hehe...), hasn't it been said before that spren have a difficult time leaving Roshar's Cogn. Realm in an earlier WoB?

After all, spren are a part of the Investiture Invested in the world, so...it doesn't make sense that they could easily leave it...

Edited December 8, 2016 by Kandra-in-disguise

[Blightsong]

38 minutes ago, Kandra-in-disguise said:

Other than the 2 dimensional? nature of the Shadesmar (I'm guessing this is that Shadesmar is a plane and not a sphere, because none of the characters are literally 2 dimensional when they're in it...hehe...), hasn't it been said before that spren have a difficult time leaving Roshar's Cogn. Realm in an earlier WoB?

After all, spren are a part of the Investiture Invested in the world, so...it doesn't make sense that they could easily leave it...

I think they are saying it is weird for Radiants to bring their Spren to other planets via actual space travel because of the weird Cognitive realm physics.