Windrunner Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 If that were the case though, wouldn't Mistborn: Secret History Spoilers Spoiler Hoid have simply used the Black Lake instead of coming through the Well in Secret History? He clearly wasn't happy about being so close to Ruin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 My understanding of the state of Ruin's perpendicularity was that Kelsier merely... disabled it. Temporarily. Realmatically speaking, I don't understand why popping the atium geodes would have an effect on the perpendicularity, but I very much doubt Kelsier could've done permanent damage to it - especially considering that we know the Pits would eventually reform. So I figure he just put a pause on things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 7 hours ago, TheBlueShifting said: From the interview, I got the impression that the Perpendicularity was not destroyed by Kelsier, Yes the mini ones were, but I doubt the little ones would work to send someone into the Cognitive Realm anyway. I think the "dark pool" still exists deep in the pits, which would have provided a means to travel had it been found. I might be reading into things, but he answered the question in a way that made it seem that the perpendicularity was still accessible. SH spoiler: Spoiler Hoid says that Kelsier destroyed it, and so does Nazh. Also, if you look at Brandon's latest post in this forum (I'm pretty sure), he explains why certain things he said earlier can't be true, because the Perpendicularity in the Pits didn't work for most of the trilogy. So it seems fairly certain that it really was gone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Right, @Eki. I don't remember the exact wording, so maybe I am shooting in there dark here, but I still don't see why it couldn't be a temporary setback. I see it as a destroyed door - one that blocks the way and takes a while to rebuild, but possible to repair nonetheless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, Argent said: Right, @Eki. I don't remember the exact wording, so maybe I am shooting in there dark here, but I still don't see why it couldn't be a temporary setback. I see it as a destroyed door - one that blocks the way and takes a while to rebuild, but possible to repair nonetheless. I agree. I'm sure the Perpendicularity would come back (or become strong enough) over time, as the Pits recovered. And who knows what Sazed did after his Ascension. We don't even know *how* Kelsier destroyed it. Was it enough to smash the geodes, or did smashing the geodes do something that made the Cognitive Realm too dangerous to access? In the latter case, there could be a shardpool that wasn't destroyed with the geodes, but it was impossible to reach it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueShifting Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 7 hours ago, Eki said: SH spoiler: Hide contents Hoid says that Kelsier destroyed it, and so does Nazh. Also, if you look at Brandon's latest post in this forum (I'm pretty sure), he explains why certain things he said earlier can't be true, because the Perpendicularity in the Pits didn't work for most of the trilogy. So it seems fairly certain that it really was gone. But if that is the case, that creates a paradox with Felt. As was stated above, Felt was active in all three of the Lost Empire Mistborn books, and yet he later appears on Roshar. I guess he could have survived the end of the world of ash, have already gained immortality, and just hopped away when the pool was fixed, but that seems about as convoluted as believing that there was a still active perpendicularity on Scadreal. Here is a thought I had about why the Ruin Perpendicularity might have been unusable. What if the perpendicularity was underground and sealed beneath the pits. Like airtight. So if you came through you would be stuck under solid rock. That would make it pretty impossible to travel through, and perhaps the geodes provided a means to step through into the pits themselves. So when those were destroyed the path was closed unless the caves were to collapse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I was always under the impression that Kell didn't do much with the geodes, rather he broke the crystal formations they condensed from, which was what actually damaged the perpendicularity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 2 hours ago, TheBlueShifting said: But if that is the case, that creates a paradox with Felt. As was stated above, Felt was active in all three of the Lost Empire Mistborn books, and yet he later appears on Roshar. I guess he could have survived the end of the world of ash, have already gained immortality, and just hopped away when the pool was fixed, but that seems about as convoluted as believing that there was a still active perpendicularity on Scadreal. I don't see why there would be any contradiction... First of all, the Well was still around, and I don't think we know if Vin releasing the power also disabled that Perpendicularity (or if it did, for how long). But more importantly, Sazed reshaped the world completely. His Ascension may even have created a third shardpool (though if so, it is most likely in the South). We've had something very shardpool-like described in one of the broadsheets of SoS, and that seemed to be a much more ordinary pool than for example the Well. There are a lot of ways to explain how there could be a Perpendicularity in the post-ash world, while still having the Pit one be destroyed (temporarily or not). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueShifting Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 17 minutes ago, Eki said: I don't see why there would be any contradiction... First of all, the Well was still around, and I don't think we know if Vin releasing the power also disabled that Perpendicularity (or if it did, for how long). But more importantly, Sazed reshaped the world completely. His Ascension may even have created a third shardpool (though if so, it is most likely in the South). We've had something very shardpool-like described in one of the broadsheets of SoS, and that seemed to be a much more ordinary pool than for example the Well. There are a lot of ways to explain how there could be a Perpendicularity in the post-ash world, while still having the Pit one be destroyed (temporarily or not). True again. I suppose the possibilities are about endless here. I think Perpendicularities take time to assert themselves but who knows besides Brandon. But like you pointed out, what we do know is A. The shattering of the Pits stopped traffic somehow moving on and off world. B. That this was a temporary event. and that C. We just don;t have enough information. Its interesting to see how many thoughts we can have based on the same information. But I think in this case, you are more correct than I am. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmann966 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 The Atium geodes break when Allomancy is used on them, that's how Kelsier smashes them right? It's using Preservation's power (that's inside Allomancers) that doesn't interact well with Ruin's raw power. I feel like the key might be in the way Sel isn't a safe place with Devotion's and Dominion's mindless power lashing about. Ruin's power at the pits was "mindless" at the time because it was hidden from him, and when Kelsier broke the physical manifestations of Ruin's body, that power no longer had it's "faucet" to leak out of the Spiritual, through the Cognitive, and into the Physical as Atium beads. Once that was destroyed, the perpendicularity no longer had its opening into the physical as a pressure valve. No one could use it to get through to Scadrial and I imagine it wasn't a pleasant place to be on the Cognitive either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I was randomly going over the transcript document (like one does...), and noticed a comment clarifying one of the questions - that I don't think we've talked about in here. Specifically: Quote [01:03:55] Q: Can you write something about Szeth? A: [He writes something, not sure what it is.] Comment: It's a spoiler. I got him to write something about Szeth on Warbreaker. "Szeth has been trained with most forms/ more than one of surge" 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, Argent said: I was randomly going over the transcript document (like one does...), and noticed a comment clarifying one of the questions - that I don't think we've talked about in here. Specifically: Huh. It must have been a late addition, 'cause I don't remember seeing that. This must mean training with all the Honorblades with the Shin, right? Does this mean that more Shin are out there using Honorblades? If they do train people on Surges using the Blades, then it's interesting they sent Szeth out with Jezrien's blade, considering it's the only one they have that can grant Gravitation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 16 minutes ago, Pagerunner said: Does this mean that more Shin are out there using Honorblades? Given Nalan's comment at the end of WoR about how he "imagines that Szeth has already seen the newly dead restored to life" it felt pretty obvious that Szeth wasn't the only one practicing with the Honorblades. I got the impression he was the only one sent out of Shinovar, which does beg the question of why they gave him the only one they could use to train in the Three Lashings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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