The Number 16

[Gamma Fiend]

I've always wondered what the deal with the number 16 has been. I understand it's a pretty big number in the Cosmere.
16 Shards
16 allomantic metals

I'm not sure of any other examples, but it does seem to be a significant number.
Has there ever been any explanation for this by Sanderson yet on why he chose that number?
(age he started writing Cosmere stuff, maybe?

Because when reading the Dark Tower series by Stephen King, he created a fixation on the number 19, which he later revealed to us to be a pretty big number to him (in that Stephen King sort of way)

For example, he was hit by a van June 19, 1999. And he started writing the Gunslinger when he was 19. And just stuff like that.

I was just wondering if Sanderson had any cool reasoning or anything like that as of yet. Or has he basically 'RAFO'd it?

[Oudeis]

I'm not sure we know why, but 10 and 16 have been huge numbers for him in most books. 10 might be even bigger. All of Surgebinding, the original Allomantic Chart, number of Shardworlds, there are a few others.

[Quiver]

I think there's a pretty important difference between the Dark Tower and Brandon's work though. If I recall correctly, 19 wasn't an important part of the series when it started; King went back and revised The Gunslinger to introduce it earlier and make it fit with the later books shifts towards meta-narrative.

 

Maybe the numbers 16 or 10 have a personal significance to Brandon, but I doubt they'll be the same thing. 

 

(Of course... if you take the number of Shards (16), the number of non-shard people present at the shattering (Hoid) and the non-shard entities (Adonalsum, the Unknown Force) and add them together, you get... 19.

 

O Discordia, the Shardworld falls! The Crimson King reigns!

[Edgedancer]

The only meta thing I know about the number 16 is that you need 16 letters to spell Brandon Sanderson.

[digitalbusker]

The only meta thing I know about the number 16 is that you need 16 letters to spell Brandon Sanderson.

You need sixteen keystrokes (not counting the space), but only eight letters. You need ten letters (and twenty keystrokes) to spell Brandon Winn Sanderson.

[Metacognition]

What, didn't you know? Everything is 16.

 

I think there is very likely a reason he's picked these two numbers (10 and 16). After all, if you're just drawing numbers out of a hat, you don't keep hitting on the same ones that easily. As far as his reasoning behind it; I have no idea. Maybe he was influenced by King (though I find that unlikely considering when 19 became important to King, as Quiver points out). More than likely, he just likes the symmetry of them. 

 

The problem with studying it too in depth is that numbers get crazy. I've seen someone try to prove that 1+2+3+4+... and so on to infinity equals -1/12. Numerology lives for these types of coincidences and odd math. 

 

That doesn't mean that there isn't something there. If I said that, I'd have to discount the entirety of statistics, but I think we need a few more solid examples to work from. Preferably from Elantris and Warbreaker. Personally, I plan to see if I can find them!

Edited January 30, 2014 by Metacognition

[Gamma Fiend]

Oh I know that the numerology between King and Sanderson are different. Especially considering Sanderson's has been planned the whole time, and King's was definitely more after the fact and something he later tied in.

I was just curious for what has been influencing sanderson for this. And yeah, I noticed 10 was pretty big on Roshar too. Quick question, how many planets are there in the cosmere? Is it 10?

And, as always, So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[Radda]

Well, it can also be because of convenience - like an hour has 60 minutes because it's easy to split them in 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and so on even parts. Number 16 is also versatile, as you can divide it by 2, 4 and 8. So with 16 units you can put them into pairs, neat symmetrical patterns and so on.

Number 10 can also be divided in a lot of ways, ten parts form an interesting pattern that has bilateral and kind of radial symmetry (and Roshar is big on symmetry). Also, programmers aside, most people tend to naturally think in tens, it's a nice even number. Doesn't "Ten orders of Knight Radiants" sounds better than "Eight orders"?

And, speaking as a not-so-diehard fan, memorising 10 essences/metals is way easier than sixteen. Sixteen essences for me would be an information overload.

[Quiver]

And here I thought pointing out King's retconning made me clever lol.

 

Gamma; I think there's a Word of Brandon that the overarching story of the Cosmere is told through ten planets, so I wonder if maybe there are six worlds like the one in Silence- small, unimportant shardworlds which aren't particularly relevant and which have no hope.

 

(I mean... I suppose, if we're trying to look for symbols... 16 is the number that might be associated with negativity, where as 10 is hopeful? Snapping to match a metal is traumatic and could kill you, whereas the ten orders of radiants and the Heralds are the last hope Roshar has against the Everstorm.)

 

EDIT: Okay, I was wrong. According to the Coppermind, there are a lot more than six worlds like Silence; worlds which only have a splinter or a part of a shard. It also says that there are ten core Shardworlds that tell the overarching story of the Cosmere, and that right now we know of six of them.

 

http://coppermind.net/wiki/Cosmere

 

So... this makes me wonder which six worlds we've seen are important. Are all the worlds we're going to see that have significance Shardworlds? As big a fan I am of Warbreaker, I've always sort of discounted it from the major cycle, since writing and publishing it online was such an experiment.

 

Oh, and... can anyone give me any details about The Silence Divine? I've seen some of you guys around here discussing or talking about it, but I can't find anything about it beyond whats on the wiki.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Quiver

[bartbug]

I think a Shardworld is important if it has at least one whole Shard, which thankfully, Warbreaker does. Also, we know that there will be a sequel to it, Nightblood, so we can assume it will be reasonably important.

[Moogle]

The problem with studying it too in depth is that numbers get crazy. I've seen someone try to prove that 1+2+3+4+... and so on to infinity equals 1/12. Numerology lives for these types of coincidences and odd math.

 

The issue is that 1+2+3... does actually equal -1/12. The proof can be done anyone who's learned about power series, and it's used in string theory and other fun 'useful' places. This is because they're using infinity and that changes basically everything, including what you'd normally mean by 'sum', but it's hardly crazy.

 

As to 16: it's 2^4, and it's actually quite a nice base to work in. It doesn't surprise me that it pops up all the time in the Cosmere, though I haven't the slightest idea on why 10 would.

[Metacognition]

The issue is that 1+2+3... does actually equal -1/12. The proof can be done anyone who's learned about power series, and it's used in string theory and other fun 'useful' places. This is because they're using infinity and that changes basically everything, including what you'd normally mean by 'sum', but it's hardly crazy.

 

As to 16: it's 2^4, and it's actually quite a nice base to work in. It doesn't surprise me that it pops up all the time in the Cosmere, though I haven't the slightest idea on why 10 would.

 

I didn't mean to imply that it didn't exist, just that numbers be crazy, yo. It's like the whole 1 = 0.99999999.... debate and ℮^iπ+1=0, if you look for it, numbers do some amazing things. I didn't mean crazy as in, 'this is ludicrous and fictional.' I meant it more as, 'Holy cow! How does that even work?' (and then your brain explodes) I actually enjoy math, I was already aware of its use in string theory like that, so sorry you got the impression I was dismissing it. 

[WeiryWriter]

Ashyn, the world of Silence divine has an illness-based magic system.  You get sick and you get powers.  Like the common cold gives you the ability to fly or strep throat gives you heat vision.  It also has a more modern tech level I think.

 

The ten "core" shardworlds, of which we know eight, are those with "significant shardic influence".  That most likely means "has at least one shard".  There are who knows how many lesser shardworlds, we know of two, but they won't have more than a splinter.

[Aether]

The ten "core" shardworlds, of which we know eight, are those with "significant shardic influence".  That most likely means "has at least one shard".  There are who knows how many lesser shardworlds, we know of two, but they won't have more than a splinter.

Just to provide further elaboration on the matter (though honestly mostly just as an excuse to make another List), the eight known Shardworlds are:

• Sel, the planet of Elantris and the Emperor's Soul. Shards: the shattered Devotion and Dominion
• Scadrial, the planet of the Mistborn trilogies and the Alloy of Law series. Shards: Previously Preservation and Ruin, now Harmony.
• Nalthis, the planet of Warbreaker. Shard: Endowment.
• Roshar, the planet of the Stormlight Archive series. Shards: Cultivation and the shattered Honour.
• Braise, the home planet of Odium in also located in the Greater Roshar System. Shard: Odium (duh!)
• Ashyn, a planet in the Greater Roshar Solar System and the planet of the unpublished Silence Divine. No Shard¹.
• Taldain, the planet of the unpublished White Sand trilogy. Shard(s): the unknown shard of Bavadin. It has been confirmed that this is the only Shard² there.
• Yolen, the (presumed) origin planet of Adonalsium and humanity itself, and the place of the unpublished Dragonsteel and the Liar of Partinel. (Current) Shard(s): unknown.

Lesser Shardworlds:

• Threnody³, the planet of Shadows for Silence in the Forest of Hell. Shard(s): No Shards⁴, though perhaps a powerful splinter or something to the effect.
• First of the Sun⁵, the planet of the unpublished short-story Sixth of the Dusk. Shard(s): Unknown, but likely just a splinter.

EDIT: For fun, I've added this List to my signature and will be updating it as more information is revealed/discovered.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Aether

[Voidus]

16 is an awesome number 4^2 as well as 2^4 and two is quite clearly the BEST NUMBER EVER, followed closely by 4 which is both double two and 2^2 (Because that's exactly the same thing) so 16 as 2^(2^2) is also quite awesome.
10 by comparison is far less interesting. 1+2+3+4, that's about it really.

[TenSoon]

The issue is that 1+2+3... does actually equal -1/12. The proof can be done anyone who's learned about power series, and it's used in string theory and other fun 'useful' places. This is because they're using infinity and that changes basically everything, including what you'd normally mean by 'sum', but it's hardly crazy.

 

As to 16: it's 2^4, and it's actually quite a nice base to work in. It doesn't surprise me that it pops up all the time in the Cosmere, though I haven't the slightest idea on why 10 would.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that only works if the equal sign is redefined as 'is associated with'. If you say 1+2+3... 'is equal to' -1/12, then you are wrong. And that is why it is so confusing, because the people who originally said that 1+2+3...=-1/12 used the less common interpretation of '=', thoroughly confusing everybody.

 

Going back on topic however, I do agree that 16 is a nice number to work with. Lots of numbers divide from it, and it is a power of 2, while at the same time is not exceptionally large and difficult to use.

 

10 is a far more interesting number. It is a far less easy to divide with. However, because we use a base ten decimal system, it is easy to have larger numbers to divide into 10. E.g. 10 groups of x, or x groups of 10. That is why I think Brandon chose it.

Edited May 21, 2014 by TenSoon

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

So the number 10 is only important because of common human perception. Hmm, interesting.