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Source - Prologue + Chapter 2 - TKWade (V,L) - 5,643


TKWade

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Feel free to skip the prologue - it's a revision and I know I went over on the word limit, so I'm sorry! It's just a short chapter so I wanted to squeeze it in, but it didn't really fit.

Looking for character consistency, pacing, tension holding, etc.

My punctuation is not great, but if you want to nit pick it I'm all for it, or even if you want to pick a page to nit pick and explain why the punctuation is incorrect that would help a lot. I have much to learn. :) 

Thanks for reading!

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Overall

You writing is getting better. Keep at it! The prologue is pretty close now. A few tweak areas noted below. The next chapter started strong and sort of fizzled out. Specifics below.

As I go

- That first line would have more punch if you just ended it at burn.

- infernal? Did you mean 'inferno'?

- The interspersion of Alandia's thoughts with the first chapter narration is really choppy

- Still having run-on sentence problems

- the writing scene still needs some tension work, but once they are out of the building it gets better

- watch your redundant words. For instance you use 'fog' twice in as many sentences on page four, top paragraph. This is happening a lot, but an easy fix.

- the short little paragraph at the top of page seven is just beautiful

- using the word 'beloved' at the end of page seven is overkill, however. Just replace with husband

- The battle scene stretches a little too long, especially for a prologue. Suggest removing about two pages from it to keep tension going without making readers bored

- page twelve. Woah with the new names. Too many. I will never keep them straight

- page 13: is she a Vulcan?

- page 13: the messed up hair thought seems out of place noting the other thoughts you've shared from your MC

- page 13: ugh. So. Many. Names.

- page 14: it's so early for The Weapon to be introduced. Eye roll happening here

- page 15: why tell him about the swords if they just have to kill him if he knows? This is confusing

- bottom of page 15: because of the Too Many Names, this section does not have the impact I think you wanted it to have

- page 17: yeah, MC's flippant attitude is at odds with his actions and thoughts. Inconsistent character

- page 19: honestly, I'm bored at this point. I was moderately invested when the MC was being hauled around, but since I have no grasp of this world or the people, this dialogue with this not-human bald female falls flat

- page 20: motivation fail. Why are the siblings helping the MC, and why does he trust them? Too many questions, too many characters, not enough tension or character development

- page 21: last line doesn't have any impact, because I don't know enough about MC's current life to get excited about a new beginning

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10 hours ago, kaisa said:

That first line would have more punch if you just ended it at burn.

Edited

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- infernal? Did you mean 'inferno'?

I did. fail. edited.

 

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

For instance you use 'fog' twice in as many sentences on page four, top paragraph.

Edited. I'll have to read through it more times to catch the other words.

 

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- the short little paragraph at the top of page seven is just beautiful

I think that was your short little paragraph :P

 

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- using the word 'beloved' at the end of page seven is overkill, however. Just replace with husband

Agreed. Edited.

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- The battle scene stretches a little too long, especially for a prologue. Suggest removing about two pages from it to keep tension going without making readers bored

I love battle scenes :( but okay... sulks away

 

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page twelve. Woah with the new names. Too many. I will never keep them straight

I've removed a couple of names The Trelian and Radalf. Radalf is completely unimportant at this point. The Trelian may have some broader importance, but again, adds nothing. But in large there are only a few entirely new names. I may remove Delver as well. It is important just not to this chapter.

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page 13: is she a Vulcan?

Anything is possible in fantasy land, right?

 

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page 13: the messed up hair thought seems out of place noting the other thoughts you've shared from your MC

You're right. I've edit'd this and the prison Ortan flippant remark out. I just want to inject a little humor into the story, but not at the expense of character consistency. I have a character coming that adds that, so It may be okay.

 

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page 13: ugh. So. Many. Names.

I didn't think i had that many new names :(

 

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page 14: it's so early for The Weapon to be introduced. Eye roll happening here

this isn't The Weapon, it's just a type of weapon. It's important for a number of reasons, but I didn't mean for it to have that kind of cliche feel of, "oh no! the weapon to end all wars!" but i can see now how my dialog definitely pushed it in that direction. I will edit it.

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page 15: why tell him about the swords if they just have to kill him if he knows? This is confusing

I need to work on this. I need a more compelling reason than, "your father was of great service and this is out of respect for it, etc." It doesn't jive with the narrative and it isn't convincing. I want this scene to happen, but this may be a flop chapter for that reason.

 

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page 19: honestly, I'm bored at this point. I was moderately invested when the MC was being hauled around, but since I have no grasp of this world or the people, this dialogue with this not-human bald female falls flat

I'll shorten/cut this down - I can see what you're meaning. Will Edit.

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page 20: motivation fail. Why are the siblings helping the MC, and why does he trust them? Too many questions, too many characters, not enough tension or character development

I kind of likened it to Moiraine and Rand in Wheel of Time- he had no reason to trust or go with her, but he did because he was in obvious trouble. Like wise, Maykn has only two choices in that cell. Wait to be tortured and killed, or follow an individual who's race has suppressed and murdered his people but is for some reason helping him. Die or maybe die. That's kind of what I was going for anyway. He isn't going with S because he trusts him, but because he has no other viable option.

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10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page 21: last line doesn't have any impact, because I don't know enough about MC's current life to get excited about a new beginning

I might be able to fix this within chapter one and a bit in this chapter. I'll edit.

As always, thank you so much Kaisa, your input is always invaluable!

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TAIG (Thoughts As I Go): The opening paragraph is alternating between a destroyed city, and a window sill. It splits my attention. The couple seems like a potent warrior pair, so I hope there’s a good reason for them not to be fighting. Fifty years dedicated to sword mastery is an awful long time.  So, why torture him, instead of killing him outright?

Notes: A prologue. I like prologues, it gives you something to figure out during the rest of the book until it is explicitly explained. I can only assume this prologue is in the far past, you may wish to label it as such. I’m confused about the interrogation, is there a reason M wasn’t killed outright? What could he know that could be worth torturing him for? (Also, I have a hard time keeping up with names)

Are S & N identical twins? M didn’t recognize them as such, so I assume not. Also, are the twins completely opposite personality-wise? It seems they are

 

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13 minutes ago, aeromancer said:

TAIG (Thoughts As I Go): The opening paragraph is alternating between a destroyed city, and a window sill. It splits my attention. The couple seems like a potent warrior pair, so I hope there’s a good reason for them not to be fighting. Fifty years dedicated to sword mastery is an awful long time.  So, why torture him, instead of killing him outright?

I've edited the opening paragraph to resolve this issue.

They're not fighting because the letter is more important, but spending time on that importance slows the prologue down, so I've opted to just assume the reader will recognize this. I may need to make a more explicit statement, but I can't waste more than one small sentence on it at most.

I don't bring it up, because it's a prologue, but 50 years is a short span in her life. She's quite young. He's not killed because he's going to be used.

 

13 minutes ago, aeromancer said:

Notes: A prologue. I like prologues, it gives you something to figure out during the rest of the book until it is explicitly explained. I can only assume this prologue is in the far past, you may wish to label it as such.

I try to allude to the time line in the epigraph of chapter one.

 

13 minutes ago, aeromancer said:

I’m confused about the interrogation, is there a reason M wasn’t killed outright? What could he know that could be worth torturing him for? (Also, I have a hard time keeping up with names)

There is, but i did a poor job of plotting it out in a reasonable way. I'm going through some major edits with chapter 2 for this reason. It's very unconvincing.

13 minutes ago, aeromancer said:

Are S & N identical twins? M didn’t recognize them as such, so I assume not. Also, are the twins completely opposite personality-wise? It seems they are

They are not, S is male and N is female. They are similar but different despite the same up bringing. The next chapter focuses solely on their relationship, so that comes to light pretty quickly.

 

@aeromancer: Thank you for reading and giving me your thoughts!

Edited by TKWade
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1 minute ago, TKWade said:

They're not fighting because the letter is more important, but spending time on that importance slows the prologue down, so I've opted to just assume the reader will recognize this. I may need to make a more explicit statement, but I can't waste more than one small sentence on it at most.
I don't bring it up, because it's a prologue, but 50 years is a short span in her life. She's quite young. He's not killed because he's going to be used.

Please do, all I know at this point is a letter needs to be delivered, but wasn't.

In terms of swordplay, my problem isn't the time spent practicing so much as her being described as  I'm not well versed in how long it takes, but assuming five hours a day practice time 300 days fighting time fifty years is 75,000 hours. That's seven and a half times the ten-thousand hour rule. A should be a swordmaster, perfectly at one with the blade, a master of the craft. That's not really the sense that I got. It's not that big a problem.

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3 hours ago, aeromancer said:

In terms of swordplay, my problem isn't the time spent practicing so much as her being described as  I'm not well versed in how long it takes, but assuming five hours a day practice time 300 days fighting time fifty years is 75,000 hours. That's seven and a half times the ten-thousand hour rule. A should be a swordmaster, perfectly at one with the blade, a master of the craft.

This depends on how you define mastery, which is an element i'm excited to hit on my book. I don't see mastery as having an ending. I see mastery more as an idea. There is no 'Mastering' of a craft. There is only the journey of mastery and that journey has no end. You don't become a swordsman who has mastered the art of the sword, it is your practice. It's unending because you don't aspire to become a master, but to enjoy the process of practice and learning. I would say that true mastery lies in being able to fully enjoy the process of practice in any particular craft. If you can find that fulfillment, that joy, in practice, then you have found the master's journey.

It's all about how you look at it. But in my view. No amount of time is too long to practice to achieve a higher level of skill.
 

Edited by TKWade
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- I like the detail about the maids being disgusted, but Alandria's thought about Alluren seem out of place - it might be as simple as moving the sentence down a line and having it stand on its own.

- I do like the pacing of this prologue.

- Having seen previous drafts of this prologue, I did like when Lyzell's turning was more ambiguous. It seems here he's just possessed, which actually seems less threatening because it's easy to understand.

- I also like the pacing and world-building on the second chapter. I'm curious where this is all going. 

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14 hours ago, rdpulfer said:

- I like the detail about the maids being disgusted, but Alandria's thought about Alluren seem out of place - it might be as simple as moving the sentence down a line and having it stand on its own.

Good catch, edited.

 

14 hours ago, rdpulfer said:

- Having seen previous drafts of this prologue, I did like when Lyzell's turning was more ambiguous. It seems here he's just possessed, which actually seems less threatening because it's easy to understand

I will edit this. I'm going to dramatically cut down the whole fight scene so I will try to make this more apparent in some way. Thanks!

 

14 hours ago, rdpulfer said:

- I also like the pacing and world-building on the second chapter. I'm curious where this is all going. 

Thank you for taking the time to read!

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I am going to skip the prologue entirely. I'm seeing a lot of stuff I'd mark for improvement on the first page, but I also know you've been spinning your wheels on it for some time, and I don't want to contribute to that at this point. I would not call mechanical issues a reason to stop, and that's most of what I am noticing. My honest best suggestion there is give it some rest, keep going, and when you come back to it, don't even revise it, just keep it open and one eye on it in a separate window as you start over. I've really always found this to have the best result for deep revisions.

Either way, don't let it hold you back for now.

P.11

Your epigraph feels a little obviously constructed, I think. The big trick to concocting in-setting documents is to have as complete as possible a notion of what it is you're 'excerpting'. In this, I think you're encompassing too much and the dramatic trail-off shows your hand; if I wanted to get away with minimal changes here, I'd slice off the first and last sentences. You're not losing any significant meaning but you're also not deflating the tension. Don't give away the farm; epigraphs let you be at once oblique and extremely specific.

Also, you're gonna want 'circa' rather than 'approximately' on the attribution.

Chided is pretty implied by the statement. Second paragraph is way telly. I would straight-up cut.

Oooh, this last paragraph is... The first sentence is quite literally nonsensical, it is kind of all over the place. The second one is just, you're cramming too much stuff into it at once. The rest of it onto the next page is expositing way too hard.

P.12

You've got POV violations (the assumed was probably is, in addition to being clunky, just a figleaf on doing something the character can't really know. if you must have a character supposit something like this, and you're in pov, it needs to be actual surmise) in the first paragraph, and again, you're expositing way hard here.

The bottom half of the page is better but you're still saying outright what he's feeling.  Don't tell me how he hates it, don't tell me how it chafes, bake that into every sentiment, bake that into your viewpoint character's perceptions, let it colour what we the reader take away from the scene.

p.13

Honestly, I know I'm only two pages in, but it's after three in the morning, I'm gonna break here so I don't lose anything. Right now too I feel like a lot of what I have to say is going to be along the same lines, and that's only so useful to hammer on in this format. If I can get back to this I will but that's kind of where I'm at on this, crit-wise.

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On 12/9/2016 at 3:15 AM, neongrey said:

Either way, don't let it hold you back for now.

Yeah, it's held me back from moving forward. I may get 10 chapters in and agree that it isn't necessary anymore and then I just wasted weeks for no reason.

On 12/9/2016 at 3:15 AM, neongrey said:

Also, you're gonna want 'circa' rather than 'approximately' on the attribution.

Edited. Thanks!

On 12/9/2016 at 3:15 AM, neongrey said:

Chided is pretty implied by the statement. Second paragraph is way telly. I would straight-up cut.

Ah, true, edited.

On 12/9/2016 at 3:15 AM, neongrey said:

Oooh, this last paragraph is... The first sentence is quite literally nonsensical, it is kind of all over the place. The second one is just, you're cramming too much stuff into it at once. The rest of it onto the next page is expositing way too hard.

 
 
 

I tried to clean this up and have made adjustments, thanks!

On 12/9/2016 at 3:15 AM, neongrey said:

You've got POV violations (the assumed was probably is, in addition to being clunky, just a figleaf on doing something the character can't really know. if you must have a character supposit something like this, and you're in pov, it needs to be actual surmise) in the first paragraph, and again, you're expositing way hard here.

 
 
 

Took me a minute to understand what you meant here, but I'm assuming this sentence? "They continued into the temple following a red runner worn from years of people visiting to worship." It's because I'm saying it as the narrator vs the POV of the MC correct? I will edit.

 

On 12/9/2016 at 3:15 AM, neongrey said:

The bottom half of the page is better but you're still saying outright what he's feeling.  Don't tell me how he hates it, don't tell me how it chafes, bake that into every sentiment, bake that into your viewpoint character's perceptions, let it colour what we the reader take away from the scene.

 
 
 

This has been difficult for me to get a balance on between knowing when showing isn't necessary and vice versa. I've gone through and tried to redo some scenes to be evocative vs informative. I think this is just one of those things that will take a ton of practice and revision to become second nature. Thank you for pointing it out!

Thank you for reading what you did! The last bit of the chapter was quite bad, so you didn't miss anything. I'm going to submit a revision this Monday instead of the next chapter only because the revision was so heavy. 
 

Edited by TKWade
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  • 1 month later...
On 09/12/2016 at 9:15 AM, neongrey said:

My honest best suggestion... don't even revise it...

Either way, don't let it hold you back for now.

Here, here - well said. Just keep going and finish the story / revision, don't get bogged down in going back to the start.

In a similar vein, I'm going to skip this and read the revision to Chapter 2, but I echo @neongrey's great advice, keep moving forward.

Edited by Robinski
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