Stumps Future

[Toaster Retribution]

So, Stump is either a Truthwatcher, or an Edgedancer. How important do you guys think she will be in the future? For example, will she be in Oathbringer?

[Stark]

Another interesting question:  We've seen a few systems where an invested person can become functionally immortal.  We have also seen Stormlight healing injuries years old (Lopen's arm) and modifying a person to their self image.

 

What will access to constant Stormlight do with Stump?  Will her age related problems get better (Eyesight, joints, walking, hearing etc)?  Or, if she still views herself as the woman she was in her prime (30s to 40s) will her Stormlight reverse her aging?  Can the combination of Stormlight and the right mental image of self lead to functional immortality?

[Amanuensis]

I'm pretty sure it can't reverse her aging unless she explitly tries to make it, which would require a lot of meditation by my guess. If the pictures of the Heralds are accurate, then stormlight automatically making people young age would have given him his youth back. Since it seems it didn't, given the fact he's depicted that way, I suspect it won't change her appearance, but certainly make her stronger / heal her body of any injuries. That does make me wonder about Renarin's eyesight, though, because it gets healed when I would think someone who wears glasses every day automatically associates it with their identity, much like Kaladin does with the slave brand. Hm.

[Stark]

I agree, I do not think that Stormlight actively makes someone younger.  Heal some of the aging infirmities? Absolutely.  But I was thinking along the lines of the person who never grows up, who we see often in comedy media as the obvious humour, who refuses to acknowledge that they are no longer 18, 20, 25, whatever.  If your mental perception of yourself is as a much younger person, would Stormlight reverse the aging and return the Knight's youth?

 

Or, in a more direct case, if you desire to never change and remain 10 forever to the point that you asked the Nightwatcher for that boon, will stormlight keep you constantly at 10 years of age (or 13 by the time you start actively using it)  Now that Lift is at her third Oath, will her aging stop if she maintains her conviction that she will remain the same?

[Weltall]

Healing seems to be very much a 'self-image' thing, as Brandon has specifically said with Kaladin (who sees the brands as part of him) versus Lopen (who doesn't see himself as 'the one-armed Lopen') so if Stump doesn't associate certain infirmities with her sense of self, stormlight healing would probably fix them just like it did with Renarin.

That said, age has been treated as a separate thing and all examples we've seen of people slowing or even stopping the aging process require a ton of investiture. Elantrians need a direct connection to the pooled investiture of two Shards, metalborn need access to a lot of the condensed essence of a Shard, Nalthians need either a Splinter of their resident Shard or ~2000 Breaths... And none of the healing we've seen affects age. For example, gold feruchemy doesn't stop your aging or make you younger even with compounding.

To the original question, I expect Stump might get mentioned offhand from time to time but I doubt she's going to be a major presence. Probably show up at some future point when we get a lot of Radiants gathering together again but Brandon mentioned in Edgedancer's postscript that Yeddaw isn't a place that has much chance of getting a focus in the main sequence, which is part of why he wrote the novella the way he did. So we probably won't be seeing Stump again for a while.

[Amaror]

21 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

That does make me wonder about Renarin's eyesight, though, because it gets healed when I would think someone who wears glasses every day automatically associates it with their identity, much like Kaladin does with the slave brand. Hm.

What? Why would people associate their glasses with themselves? Bad Eyesight is not terribly unlike Lopens Stump. It's a physical flaw and that's not really something that people associate with themselves. When you wear glasses you don't see them as part of yourself. They are just another tool that helps you to temporarily fix the flaw of your bad eyesight. As a person with glasses I can tell you that you don't see the glasses as a part of yourself. You largely just ignore that they are there. You can accept that you will need the glasses for the rest of your life in order to see properly but you will never generally see the glasses as a part of your person. In the same way that a disabled person will most likely never see their disability as a part of who they are.

[WeiryWriter]

1 hour ago, Amaror said:

What? Why would people associate their glasses with themselves? Bad Eyesight is not terribly unlike Lopens Stump. It's a physical flaw and that's not really something that people associate with themselves. When you wear glasses you don't see them as part of yourself. They are just another tool that helps you to temporarily fix the flaw of your bad eyesight. As a person with glasses I can tell you that you don't see the glasses as a part of yourself. You largely just ignore that they are there. You can accept that you will need the glasses for the rest of your life in order to see properly but you will never generally see the glasses as a part of your person. In the same way that a disabled person will most likely never see their disability as a part of who they are.

As someone who wears glasses and has a chronic illness, I couldn't disagree more. I would definitely the things as being part of who I am, even if I wish they weren't. Now I totally believe you when you say that you feel differently, but it's not fair to say that everyone feels like you do.

[Amaror]

10 minutes ago, Ookla the Indefinite said:

As someone who wears glasses and has a chronic illness, I couldn't disagree more. I would definitely the things as being part of who I am, even if I wish they weren't. Now I totally believe you when you say that you feel differently, but it's not fair to say that everyone feels like you do.

Of course there are always people that feel differently. My point was that an eye weakness is similar to other diabilities in that some people will not accept it as part of their real self. Some will, but some, like Lopen, won't. So there's definetly a reason why someone with an eye weakness could easily get healed from it using stormlight even if they have gotten used to wearing glasses by doing it their whole life. This is doubly true for a person like Renarin who desired to be able to fight like his father and brother and his eye weakness is obviously one of the things keeping him from becoming a fighter.

[PallonianFire]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Indefinite said:

As someone who wears glasses and has a chronic illness, I couldn't disagree more. I would definitely the things as being part of who I am, even if I wish they weren't. Now I totally believe you when you say that you feel differently, but it's not fair to say that everyone feels like you do.

I'm with you here. I wear contacts, not glasses, but I am exceedingly near-sighted and that fact has become completely ingrained in my identity. I could totally see Renarin having that perspective of himself and identifying as someone with glasses/poor eyesight. He could easily view it not as a "wound" or "infirmity," but just another aspect of himself, like having light eyes.

[Blightsong]

Sidenote, Brandon confirmed on reddit last night that Stormlight will not make someone younger.

[Stark]

Good to know.

 

I do not see Stump playing a huge role in the Cosmere.  I think we are seeing Worldhoppers everywhere, and she is a red herring.  With all the new info we received in this collection, having her be a Worldhopper seems to be a step too far.

 

I could see her having a cameo in the second arc of Stormlight, or a mention, in a Lift section, but I see Gawx as being far more relevant. 

[Amanuensis]

5 hours ago, Amaror said:

 

 

What? Why would people associate their glasses with themselves? Bad Eyesight is not terribly unlike Lopens Stump. It's a physical flaw and that's not really something that people associate with themselves. When you wear glasses you don't see them as part of yourself. They are just another tool that helps you to temporarily fix the flaw of your bad eyesight. As a person with glasses I can tell you that you don't see the glasses as a part of yourself. You largely just ignore that they are there. You can accept that you will need the glasses for the rest of your life in order to see properly but you will never generally see the glasses as a part of your person. In the same way that a disabled person will most likely never see their disability as a part of who they are.

I see those things entirely different personally, and here's why. Lopen wasn't born with one arm. In fact, he probably spent most of his life with two, though we don't have a confirmation on when he lost it, exactly, I don't think. Not only is phantom limb syndrome a real thing, but it's obvious by his positive disposition on life that he doesn't really look down on himself at all for it.

On the other hand, it seems Renarin has always had poor vision. He's also not exactly the most confident or optimistic individual. That being said, you bring up a good point. He desperately wants to be useful for his family. So, while I don't necessarily think that affects how he genuinely pictures himself, I could accept that the Stormlight is acting off of his intense desire to be better than he is.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Amanuensis

[maxal]

On 29/11/2016 at 3:49 PM, Amanuensis said:

On the other hand, it seems Renarin has always had poor vision. He's also not exactly the most confident or optimistic individual. That being said, you bring up a good point. He desperately wants to be useful for his family. So, while I don't necessarily think that affects how he genuinely pictures himself, I could accept that the Stormlight is acting off of his intense desire to be better than he is.

If Renarin's vision was this poor, then his entourage would have reacted more strongly when he decided to remove his glasses. It wouldn't have been plausible for him to walk around without them if without them he is supposed to be nearly blind. His eyesight issue must thus be among the mild ones: enough to need glasses in a world where people aren't ask to read small characters on street signs, but not enough to draw anything more than a shrug when he decides to go by without them.

Hence, he must have been dreaming to get rid of them.

[Ardjet]

Regarding Renarin and what his Stormlight heals. What if his self-image is based on those around him and/or Alethi society? It's mentioned several times how he bases his own faults on the personalities of those around him. He feels worthless because he isn't a warrior, he feels impaired and bitter about his lack of physical perfection. Perhaps his vision was healed because to him, the greatest and most worthy Alethi are not physically impaired.

[maxal]

3 hours ago, Ardjet said:

Regarding Renarin and what his Stormlight heals. What if his self-image is based on those around him and/or Alethi society? It's mentioned several times how he bases his own faults on the personalities of those around him. He feels worthless because he isn't a warrior, he feels impaired and bitter about his lack of physical perfection. Perhaps his vision was healed because to him, the greatest and most worthy Alethi are not physically impaired.

I think Renarin sees only what he wishes to see. I sincerely hope for him to have an eye opener going into the next: realizing those he considers perfect aren't what he made them to be. I really, really want him to see those he sees as strong, falter and perhaps have physical issues of their own. I want him to change his vision on things as I do think he is misleading himself.