Jump to content

Source - Chapter 1 - TKWade 10/21/16 [V,L] 4380


TKWade

Recommended Posts

Looking for character buy-in, hooks, character consistency, pacing.

I'm considering shortening the part with Jess a bit - he's really a minor character and more than that, I'm worried that it slows down the chapter too much. thoughts?

Also, i had a suggestion to extend Alaxtrim training - I breeze over the last three bouts. I could do that, but I was worried about it feeling redundant and dragging the chapter out unnecessarily. I could inject some relationship building, world building, and character development, but I'm not sure it would be to the benefit of the story.

Thanks for taking time to read over it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thoughts as I go:  Excellent, a claymore. I always appreciate it when authors opt for more than ‘he swung a sword, and the sword went shiiiiiiing!”

Your fights scenes are excellent, as well. As much as I enjoy swords, I prefer protagonists who don’t wield standard weapons

I see. Vorin is the dominant race, and they are empaths. The flashback is a bit long though. Maybe cut out the last paragraph?

Notes: I’m not sure about extending the bouts, as the first is done well, but you could make a reference as to how each is one to fill it out a bit more. I was initially confused about the Tah’sword, you may want to clarify that. All in all, I appreciate the start. Maykn looks like a good protagonist, a free thinker in a depressed world who fights with an atypical weapon. Maykn could also use more of the spotlight in the opening paragraphs, Jess somewhat steals it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@aeromancer Thank you for taking the time to read and to let me know your thoughts!

 

22 hours ago, aeromancer said:

Your fights scenes are excellent, as well. As much as I enjoy swords, I prefer protagonists who don’t wield standard weapons

Agreed!

 

22 hours ago, aeromancer said:

I see. Vorin is the dominant race, and they are empaths. The flashback is a bit long though. Maybe cut out the last paragraph?

Adding to edit list - Thank you!

 

22 hours ago, aeromancer said:

I’m not sure about extending the bouts, as the first is done well, but you could make a reference as to how each is one to fill it out a bit more. I was initially confused about the Tah’sword, you may want to clarify that. All in all, I appreciate the start. Maykn looks like a good protagonist, a free thinker in a depressed world who fights with an atypical weapon. Maykn could also use more of the spotlight in the opening paragraphs, Jess somewhat steals it.

Also adding suggestions to edit list - Thank you again @aeromancer!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL @TKWade, technically, I stole that format from @neongrey because I loved it so much!

 

Overall

Leaps and bounds better writing than your last sub. You're improving quickly. Some notes below. The part with Jess - it was so long and so touching that it A) grounded your MC and B.) made me wonder if maybe a little something something was going on there. I think you could streamline it, but I don't think shortening it would do your MC much good. I'd vote against extending the training. We don't know anything about this world, and we are not yet invested in anyone in particular. Meaningless battling without context just makes me want to skim, or put the book down entirely. The training session works right now (if you move the explanation up before it). Any longer and people who read for character and dialogue, like myself, won't be hooked anymore.

 

As I go

- still issues with comma and semi colon use

- too many names right off the bat, with the kids and then all the hero names. I'll never keep them all straight

- page five: you keep using the word subjugation but I'm not actually seeing any subjugation happening

- page seven: I think 'beat' is what the sound is called. So if you italicize it it would be something like lub-dub, lub-dub. Beat would just be written normally.

- page eight: having eat rat on a stick myself, I can tell you that this scene is not very accurate. They may be skinned, but street rats are bony and you really have to work for that meat. There needs to be more blocking here.

- top of page nine is infodump

- page nine: I'm confused. What is a 'dark-mannered' woman? Did she get executed or did she execute another woman?

- page ten: I don't have enough world buy-in to care why they are training. Need more reason first

- yeah, the explanation on page twelve should be moved up much earlier

- the tension holds well at the end

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, kaisa said:

B.) made me wonder if maybe a little something something was going on there.

Yikes - definitely not intended haha! I'll edit this and streamline it. 

 

4 hours ago, kaisa said:

- still issues with comma and semi colon use

I'm really struggling with this, but I'm reading up and doing online exercises. I'll improve eventually. I'm not at that spot where it has really clicked yet. I'm kicking myself for drawing instead of paying attention my Highschool English courses. :(

 

5 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page five: you keep using the word subjugation but I'm not actually seeing any subjugation happening

I'll work on this. This has been a state for centuries, so humans have been indoctrinated for many generations. The lack of seeing it may be because it's so normalized in their culture, however, I will try to provide more details and examples and add in hints and tidbits. Thank you!

 

5 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page seven: I think 'beat' is what the sound is called. So if you italicize it it would be something like lub-dub, lub-dub. Beat would just be written normally.

In your opinion, which works better?  lub-dub, lub-dub. just seems to read weird. I think personally I'd go with a simple un-italicized Beat.

5 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page eight: having eat rat on a stick myself, I can tell you that this scene is not very accurate. They may be skinned, but street rats are bony and you really have to work for that meat. There needs to be more blocking here.

 

I will edit this. Thank you for eating a rat so that I can get it right ;)

5 hours ago, kaisa said:

- top of page nine is infodump

I will edit.

 

5 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page nine: I'm confused. What is a 'dark-mannered' woman? Did she get executed or did she execute another woman?

Broody? Cloudy? A mask of discontent? Generally unhappy? instead of saying "... she executed a woman ..." should I say " ... she executed another woman ..." ? 
 

 

5 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page ten: I don't have enough world buy-in to care why they are training. Need more reason first

Will Edit

 

5 hours ago, kaisa said:

- yeah, the explanation on page twelve should be moved up much earlier

If I move this up earlier - would you say that resolves the previous issue or should I illuminate the tournament or the characters feelings towards it more?


@kaisa Thank you for taking the time to do the critique! 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This feels like a good start to a story: it's obvious from the world-building what the conflict is going to be, but there's no clue as to how Maykn and Alaxtrim are going to be involved in it, which keeps the reader wanting more.

However, having read the first chapter, I wonder what the point of the prologue was. The prologue seemed to revolve about the letter which had to be read in 500 years. You made a point of saying the letter couldn't survive if it didn't make it to the temple, which it didn't. So if the letter won't be making an appearance in the main story, why do we need it as focus of the prologue? (There could be other reasons for the prologue, of course.)

P4. "Sword training every day you agreed to play Knights" - Shouldn't that be the other way around?

P5. "If you could sell it then you could probably find a vendor on Lorli trying to sell it." - Repetition of "sell it" in the same sentence.
Right beneath that, you have "watchful eye" two times in as many lines.

P6. Lumos: I really like the concept of rechargeable coins with variable value. Now I'm wondering how a full lumos becomes a half one.

P7. For the sound of the heartbeat, you could also go with a simple "whump" or "woosh". Unless I actually had my ear pressed up against something, I don't think I've ever heard the double-beat @kaisa describes.

P7. "It's like sixty-five degrees outside.It's beautiful." - Fahrenheit or Celsius? Because it's beautiful I assume it's a warm day, meaning it would be normal for Maykn to sweat. Personally, I try to avoid using any real-world units, unless it's really clear what I mean by them.

P12. "From what? Our lives suck, man." - That's exactly the sort of thing oppressors want to distract their people from. If their lives didn't suck, there would be no need for distractions.

P13 to 18. The Vorin starts off talking rather brutish ("What are doing?") but he ends up talking in full sentences with some rather big words, it feels inconsistent to me.

 

The world is intriguing, on the one hand you've got surveillance cameras and explosives, on the other hand, people are still fighting with swords.
I hope to see more soon.

PS

10 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page eight: having eat rat on a stick myself, I can tell you that this scene is not very accurate. They may be skinned, but street rats are bony and you really have to work for that meat. There needs to be more blocking here.

Sorry, it's off topic, but I have to ask: did this happen at a Terry Pratchett convention?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Similar reactions to the others here, so I'll try not to repeat.

I also picked everything up I needed to from this chapter, so I don't think the prologue is needed, unless those people somehow appear again.

A bit too much fighting overall. I know they're practicing, but at this point I want to be introduced to the characters and plot and why I should care.

Interesting worldbuilding. We see an automaton (not sure if it's magic or tech) but people are still fighting with sword and staves. The Tah-baton seemed more advanced as well, but I'm not sure of the overall tech level.

Also, FYI, "Vorin" makes me think Stormlight Archive. May want to adjust the name.

pg 17: "I can't smell the heat"  - is this supposed to be "I can smell the heat?"

I was also confused that the Vorin who was grunting at them before went off into a soliloquy about sword fighting. Seems inconsistent.

Overall, interesting beginning and it has some potential!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

However, having read the first chapter, I wonder what the point of the prologue was. The prologue seemed to revolve about the letter which had to be read in 500 years. You made a point of saying the letter couldn't survive if it didn't make it to the temple, which it didn't. So if the letter won't be making an appearance in the main story, why do we need it as focus of the prologue? (There could be other reasons for the prologue, of course.)

 

31 minutes ago, Mandamon said:

I also picked everything up I needed to from this chapter, so I don't think the prologue is needed, unless those people somehow appear again.

The prologue characters and letter come back into play. I've adjusted it quite a bit and i'm doing another revision on it to shorten it and clean it up, but it serves a few purposes: It introduces Alandria and Lyzell and their relationship; it talk about a letter that was supposed to be delivered somewhere to someone, but we're not really sure where, when, or who, but it does come back into play; it puts a fantasy world into the readers mind so when they read the first chapter it creates an interesting dynamic with the tech that's available; and last it introduces Osha and creates this setting where the reader knows Osha is a bad force and knows, based off the content of chapter one, that Osha won.

 

6 hours ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

P4. "Sword training every day you agreed to play Knights" - Shouldn't that be the other way around?

This is written correctly. Maykn wants to play this game with Jess and Jess wants training. That's the trade off. It's akin to me wanting to play video games or to write to take a moment to escape life and reality. It's a welcomed distraction. For a Dreg, that's hard to come by which is why Maykn enjoys it.

 

6 hours ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

P5. "If you could sell it then you could probably find a vendor on Lorli trying to sell it." - Repetition of "sell it" in the same sentence.
Right beneath that, you have "watchful eye" two times in as many lines.

I will edit this.

 

6 hours ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

P7. "It's like sixty-five degrees outside.It's beautiful." - Fahrenheit or Celsius? Because it's beautiful I assume it's a warm day, meaning it would be normal for Maykn to sweat. Personally, I try to avoid using any real-world units, unless it's really clear what I mean by them.

Also good call, I'll edit this as well. Thank you!

 

6 hours ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

P13 to 18. The Vorin starts off talking rather brutish ("What are doing?") but he ends up talking in full sentences with some rather big words, it feels inconsistent to me.

I've had a couple of people comment on this. I didn't mean to portray that type of mood in their first meeting. He was short with them because he's an chull, but he isn't unintelligent. I'll rework this dialog to make it appear more like the end of the chapter. He's smart, but he has a bit of a volatile temperament too.

 

 

6 hours ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

Sorry, it's off topic, but I have to ask: did this happen at a Terry Pratchett convention?

I've never been to a Terry Pratchett convention so I'm not sure >.<

 

31 minutes ago, Mandamon said:

but I'm not sure of the overall tech level.

It'll become more apparent as the story progresses. I didn't want to spend a ton of time on it in the first chapter and get lost in world building. 

31 minutes ago, Mandamon said:

Also, FYI, "Vorin" makes me think Stormlight Archive. May want to adjust the name.

It's been several months since I've read Stormlight Archive, so I didn't initially make the connection, but you're right! Dang! I'll have to adjust the races name. Thanks!

 

31 minutes ago, Mandamon said:

pg 17: "I can't smell the heat"  - is this supposed to be "I can smell the heat?"

You're correct. I'll edit this.

 

@Mandamon and @Eagle of the Forest Path Thank you both for reading and for the time spent on the critiques!

Edited by TKWade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

did this happen at a Terry Pratchett convention

Hah, no. I've never been to a Terry Pratchett convention. I used to live in Thailand. You take protein where you can get it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- The excerpt is ominous, but a bit confusing. How will this usher in an era of new technology?

- I do like the events of the prologue being depicted by two kids depicted. You might want to play this out a bit more.

- I'm still confused by who and what is a Dreg six pages in.

- Also, how are these characters? They are old enough to work in the alloy mills, but that doesn't exactly narrow it down. And since they are playing pretend, it feels like they should be younger?

- Looking back, I guess I was confused about Dregs because the two characters were about to play a game of pretend, and I couldn't tell if they were pretending to be human, pretending to be Dregs. I didn't realize humans were dregs until far later in the submission.

- Other than that confusion, I really enjoyed this section and I want to see where things go for the main character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, rdpulfer said:

How will this usher in an era of new technology?

I want to leave this unknown because the answer is pretty sinister and each chapter will dive a little deeper into it. It's really vague and confusing right now, but it's probably one of the most important pieces of information to the story

 

1 hour ago, rdpulfer said:

- I'm still confused by who and what is a Dreg six pages in.

- Also, how are these characters? They are old enough to work in the alloy mills, but that doesn't exactly narrow it down. And since they are playing pretend, it feels like they should be younger?

- Looking back, I guess I was confused about Dregs because the two characters were about to play a game of pretend, and I couldn't tell if they were pretending to be human, pretending to be Dregs. I didn't realize humans were dregs until far later in the submission.

I'll see if I can find a good way to throw age in there.

Thank you for reading it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I’m looking forward to reading a fresh part of the story and seeing how the world has moved on from the introduction.

  • You say “We’re a human”, but I think you mean “We’re human.”

  • “Trudging through the dirty street” sounds off. Normally, people would trudge ‘along’ a street.

  • “happy with the slight improvement in his base.”

  • “signalling Jess to come at him with a wry smile” – sounds like he’s signalling Jess to smile as well.

  • I would say “glowing with teal Tah energy”, personally.

  • Why did you capitalise ‘sword’ in “I promised you, Sword training every day” – totally unnecessary, imho.

  • The phrase “bore at him” sounds odd. ‘Bored into him’ possibly, or ‘gnawed at him’. Also, Maykn praying seems like quite a strong reaction compared say to hoping that the boy reaches the shelter, but maybe Maykn is just an especially religious guy.

  • The appearance of the camera really threw me after the low tech of the fighting scene, but okay, such things have been known to happen in fiction. I have reset my expectations and on I go! Also, repetition of the phrase “watchful eye” feels awkward.

  • “Maykn pulled his eyes away examining the plethora of vendors to choose from” – grammar is off here.

  • “meat screwed sticks” sounds weird, were you by chance looking for the word ‘skewered’?

  • Sal is the second character who has welcomed a new-comer (two in her case) by exclaiming their name loudly. I would recommend mixing up the form of your dialogue or everyone will start to sound the same. Also, consider reading out loud and considering how real the dialogue sounds. This form, to me, sounds a false, like pretend enthusiasm.

  • “her optimism killed him” – Really? It’s a very extreme reaction, I’m picturing him ROFL-ing about now. A bit like the prayer, if you have such strong character reactions to minor things like this, it will make the big reactions (when you need them) feel underwhelming.

  • “annoyed by her cheery attitude”.

  • Personally, I wasn’t keen on the heartbeat thing. Didn’t really work for me. The beats seemed quite far apart, I’d be dialling 9-1-1 if that was my pulse!

  • Some of the punctuation needs some work, I think, not to mention the missing words, which are just typos. Reading out loud is good for that too. Commas for pauses for breath or effect or meaning.

  • “I'd hate to lose my training partner to the Inquisitors” – it’s hard to read this without thinking of Mistborn. I know it’s the right word, I just wonder if there was any way to distance the comparison in some way. There are synonyms for ‘inquisitor’ but certainly none sounds as intimidating. I see later that you have a Paladin ‘Detractor’. That’s a distinct designation that I haven’t heard before, so it works better than Inquisitor for me, straight away

  • “You fight dirty with a staff.” – lol, awesome, and a nice character note.

  • “They both stepped into the training circle…” – superfluous, as is “Once they were both finished stretching…”

  • “his quarterstaff held tightly” – I know nothing about fighting with a quarterstaff, but I wonder if this is good technique. I tight grip would seem to be inflexible.

  • “maybe we can effect change together” – This statement is out of step with the rest of the tone, I think, too fancy. I can’t get a proper hold on character tone, because sometimes there are course contractions like ‘gonna’ and ‘ya’, etc. I’m not feeling consistency of character voice.

  • “and saw the Vorin Detractor”

  • “A Federation Automaton rolled through the street” – I would say’ along the street’, however my actual point here is that I don’t understand the political setup yet, and I would like to. I would like to know how far reaching the Federation is. They sound like the big bad and could be mentioned up front.

  • “return to their residence

  • The interlude / flashback is a bit odd. It’s not phrased like a memory, but something cut and pasted from another part of the story.

  • “remnants remained” is awkward phrasing.

  • I like the tension of the curfew, I think that comes over well, and then it’s ramped up when M returns home and his father isn’t there. Nice climax at the end of the chapter and setting me up to continue reading from here.

  • I feel like I’m a bit confused between Vorin and Vahn. One is a title and the other is the race/species?

  • I like the threat I get from the Vorin. It’s a fairly standard evil creature, but I believe the threat that comes from it – suitably creepy.

  • ‘Imagine your potential with the sword’ is repeated, and sounds a little clunky from that repetition.

  • “cannot’ – one word.

  • You say ‘Joint Force Officers’, but earlier it said ‘Joint Federation Officers’, then we get two Ortan Officers – very confusing. Also, watch your capitalisation, I feel like it’s all over the place. There’s no need at all to capitalise officers if you’re referring to them in general, like “these officers”. They’re just two officers. The more capitals you use, the less effect they have.

In summary, I rather enjoyed that chapter, I felt that there were some god character notes and I felt the oppression of the people, also the threat from the oppressors. Nice job. Not sure what draft you are on, but there is plenty of language to clean up, and I think that the phrasing could be simpler throughout – more direct, but losing excess words.

I don’t get a strong sense of character from either of the ‘goodies’ and the ’baddies’ seem pretty off-the-shelf, but effective nonetheless. They might get a bit tiresome as we go on. Dialling up the character of the protag would be my main request.

I’m looking forward to reading more.

<R>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...