WoK ReRead: Cool things I noticed

[junior]

Dalinar tells Jasnah that the first thing that the Parshendi asked him once they had learned their language was "Do you have any maps" I can't remember the exact wording but I found it a strange thing to ask.

 

 

 

It's possible that this is a nod to Eshonai.  Her interlude notes that she's one of the ones who had the most early contact with the humans, and that she'd also prefer to be out exploring.  I can see her eagerly asking for maps of places that the Parshendi haven't visited.

[Duskshard]

It's possible that this is a nod to Eshonai.  Her interlude notes that she's one of the ones who had the most early contact with the humans, and that she'd also prefer to be out exploring.  I can see her eagerly asking for maps of places that the Parshendi haven't visited.

 

I could be just as you said. It just got me thinking because Shallan mentions finding a bunch of strange maps of her fathers. I thought that maybe the Listeners and the Ghostbloods might of been searching for something.

 

I know it's a leap with nothing to back it up. I had quite a few things jump out at me on my reread that I've been trying to fit together and find connections.

[skaa]

The thing that really blew my mind was when I re-read Axies' Interlude after reading the WoR prologue. Aimians have shadows that point towards light! Just like what happens to Jasnah when Ivory is with her! Whoa!

 

I'm still not sure what that coincidence means but it feels really important somehow. Maybe Elsecallers and Aimians can absorb Stormlight through their shadows. Maybe Aimians are also bonded to spren somehow. Whatever it is, I wish we'll find out in WoR.

Edited February 7, 2014 by skaa

[Duskshard]

The thing that really blew my mind was when I re-read Axies' Interlude after reading the WoR prologue. Aimians have shadows that point towards light! Just like what happens to Jasnah when Ivory is with her! Whoa!

 

I'm still not sure what that coincidence means but it feels really important somehow. Maybe Elsecallers and Aimians can absorb Stormlight through their shadows. Maybe Aimians are also bonded to spren somehow. Whatever it is, I wish we'll find out in WoR.

 

There's a difference though, Jasnah shadow is drawn toward stormlight. Where as Axies shadow points toward sunlight.

 

I agree though, I would like to learn more about the Aimians, Axies was a fascinating character.

[Blindillusions]

From : Nearer the Flame-

"Jasnah shook her head to herself, though Shallan could not guess what thoughts had caused the unconscious gesture."

Could this be Jasnah interacting with Ivory?

Edited February 7, 2014 by Blindillusions

[skaa]

There's a difference though, Jasnah shadow is drawn toward stormlight. Where as Axies shadow points toward sunlight.

That's true, I guess. We will have to see Axies' shadow being described while he's indoors near sources of Stormlight, and we need Ivory to show up while Jasnah is outdoors and in the sun.

Edited February 7, 2014 by skaa

[ReadingSpren]

I'm also really intrigued by the Aimians. One of the epigraphs states that the Knights Radiant built their home in the west, "in the place closest to honor". While Shinovar is the furthest west on the continent, the island of Aimia is the country furthest west on the map and its inhabitants have blue nails/hair, which is the color of Jezrien & Honor. Combined with the "scouring of Aimia" (when was that?), I'm really curious about

a) what caused the scouring

what is the Curse of Kind, and what caused it

c) if the Aimians know more about history/the KR since they live so long (Axies didn't seem concerned that his cataloguing of spren would take a few hundred years)

d) if Aimia is where we'll find Urithiru (after all, you can't walk to an island)

[Delightful]

Noticed a few things rereading - two that stood out the most:

1). I can't seem to find the quote right now, but something about how Twok is the oldest complete source they have and (not exact quote) ' even then only existed in translation'. Which scares me because it means anything at all we believe to be true from the book can be misunderstood/lost in translation.

2) when Dalinar speaks to Jasnah via spanreed he thinks 'was she said still in Tukar'. Followed by a discussion at one of Elhokar's feasts about the Emuli and Tukari fighting over the possible dawncity Sesamelex Dar. I think it's reasonable to assume Jasnahs visited the city. Which has no clear significance that I can see, but it fits her shadow days research, and its pretty cool.

Also, Danlan seems to be acting weirdly.

[Aleksiel]

Something else I've missed before. Teft to Kaladin:

 

 

There was some old king who came up with all this. Had his wife write it in a book or something. My mother read it. The Radiants based the Ideals on what was written there.

 

So is the Knights Radiant's (at least) first ideal is inspired by 'The Way of Kings' by Nohadon?. Dalinar told Sadeas a story from the book that implied the journey to be far more important than the destination.  But I thought KR already existed in Nohadon's time, he is the one who mentioned the nahel bond to Dalinar.

 

Though it got me thinking that 'the most important word a man can say' may refer to the Ideals of the Radiants.

[Delightful]

Something else I've missed before. Teft to Kaladin:

So is the Knights Radiant's (at least) first ideal is inspired by 'The Way of Kings' by Nohadon?. Dalinar told Sadeas a story from the book that implied the journey to be far more important than the destination. But I thought KR already existed in Nohadon's time, he is the one who mentioned the nahel bond to Dalinar.

Though it got me thinking that 'the most important word a man can say' may refer to the Ideals of the Radiants.

I'm fairly certain that Way of Kings is the general moral code the Knights Radiant based their behaviour on. I was also confused reading that bit, because (WoR previews spoiler)

I dont remember the source, but I think the spren started the Knights Radiant which actually surprised the Heralds

plus in that vision Nohadon speaks of previous Desolations, the Heralds coming and the people never being ready, plus there were definitely SurgeBinders. That vision didnt use the words Knight Radiant at all. so...I agree the chronology is confusing.

Its my current favourite theory that the most important words a man can say = first ideal of the KR's.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Delightful

[skaa]

I'm fairly certain that Way of Kings is the general moral code the Knights Radiant based their behaviour on. I was also confused reading that bit, because (WoR previews spoiler) I dont remember the source, but I think the spren started the Knights Radiant which actually surprised the Heralds plus in that vision Nohadon speaks of previous Desolations, the Heralds coming and the people never being ready, plus there were definitely SurgeBinders. That vision didnt use the words Knight Radiant at all. so...I agree the chronology is confusing.

Its my current favourite theory that the most important words a man can say = first ideal of the KR's.

 

I believe this is the correct ordering of events:

1. Tanavast/Honor/Almighty chooses ten people to fight the Desolations, granting them various forms of Investiture. These are the ten Heralds of the Almighty.
2. Various spren emulate what the Almighty did; Surgebinders appear, surprising the Almighty.
3. Some Surgebinders are honorable and assist the Heralds during Desolations, while some (e.g. Alakavish) use their Surgebinding for non-honorable purposes.
4. Nohadon writes the Way of Kings as a moral guide for the Surgebinding rulers of Roshar.
5. The Knights Radiant is formed, with the Way of Kings as their inspiration. All Surgebinders or potential Surgebinders are persuaded to join.

Edited February 8, 2014 by skaa

[Aleksiel]

 

I believe this is the correct ordering of events:

1. Tanavast/Honor/Almighty chooses ten people to fight the Desolations, granting them various forms of Investiture. These are the ten Heralds of the Almighty.
2. Various spren emulate what the Almighty did; Surgebinders appear, surprising the Almighty.
3. Some Surgebinders are honorable and assist the Heralds during Desolations, while some (e.g. Alakavish) use their Surgebinding for non-honorable purposes.
4. Nohadon writes the Way of Kings as a moral guide for the Surgebinding rulers of Roshar.
5. The Knights Radiant is formed, with the Way of Kings as their inspiration. All Surgebinders or potential Surgebinders are persuaded to join.

 

 

But the Almighty said he was surprised when the KR, not the surgebinders, appeared. Why would he be surprised if a surgebinder upgrades so to speak? Unless by 'spren duplicating what he did with the Heralds' refers to the Shards, not the abilities to surgebind.

[Delightful]

Unless by 'spren duplicating what he did with the Heralds' refers to the Shards, not the abilities to surgebind.

What do you mean?

[Aleksiel]

What do you mean?

 

Well, I can't find the original quote now, but the Almighty said he was surprised to see KR. There were already surgebinders with nahel bond (according to Nohadon), but no KR yet.

 

The Almighty also said that what spren did to KR imitated what he did with the Heralds.

Perhaps the surprise to the Almighty wasn't that common men were capable of surges then, but that he didn't expect to see the Shards - Shardplates and Shardblades as spren's equivalent of Honorblades. 

Edited February 8, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Rade]

Part #1: Why can't Surgebinders just be a different name for Voidbinders? We don't really know what either of them was yet, and they could just be Cultivation's contribution to fighting the Desolations. The Voidbinding chart which has been pointed out before has similarities to the other chart, I forget what it is. Maybe the Surgebinding Chart? If so, just ignore what I already said in Part 1 :-).

Part #2: Jezrien- supposed to be honorable, a leader. You wouldn't want a huge, gigantic Shardblade as you are flying through the air towards somebody, and honor = Windrunner, so a smaller blade, like Szeth's, would make sense. Kaladin and Szeth have been seen to do different things (Ring of Stormlight pushing out after Second Ideal, and the anti-falling thing Kaladin did when he fell from the bridge.) Who says that Szeth couldn't receive the ability to do basic Windrunning stuff with Jezrien's Honorblade, which has been stated to be different from normal Shardblades?

Part #3: Humans aren't native to Roshar, so who says that Honor created them? Maybe he made the Aimians and settled them in Urithiru, as guardians for his Shardpool which might potentially have been there. The Aimians could have blue blood, we haven't seen them bleed yet. Cultivation could be purple, and Odium could be orange. If you mix blue/orange, you sort of get a purplish color, and it would account for pretty much everything we have seen on Roshar.

Part #4: The moons. I haven't really seem them much, but I HAVE seen references to other planets in other posts. Maybe the Tranquiline Halls (or whatever they were called) were on the blue moon with Honor?

If anybody sees any holes, please feel free to take a axe to these theories :-).

[Natans]

I read that in my E-book version and just assumed it was because he had brown eyes and the stormlight just lightened his natural eye colour.. Thanks Peter, you just poked a hole in my favourite theory.

*sniffle*

 

 Someone know what are the "right color", in my version it's is amber too.

[Duskshard]

 Someone know what are the "right color", in my version it's is amber too.

 

In my version it just says "Kaladins eyes snapped open." It doesn't mention eye colour.

[Natans]

In my version it just says "Kaladins eyes snapped open." It doesn't mention eye colour.

 Tks =)

[Musica]

But the Almighty said he was surprised when the KR, not the surgebinders, appeared. Why would he be surprised if a surgebinder upgrades so to speak? Unless by 'spren duplicating what he did with the Heralds' refers to the Shards, not the abilities to surgebind.

I always just assumed he said Knights Radiant for Dalinar's sake, as KR is who he knows Surgebinders to be. Or it was just a language thing-like, because (we assume) after the KR orders were established, all surgebinders joined them, then Surgebinder and Radiant are the same thing...

yeah, sorry if I didn't explain myself very well..

Edited February 12, 2014 by Dreamer

[Aleksiel]

I always just assumed he said Knights Radiant for Dalinar's sake, as KN is who he knows Surgebinders to be. Or it was just a languge thing-like, because (we assume) after the KR orders were established, all surgebinders joined them, then Surgebinder and Radiant are the same thing...

yeah, sorry if I didn't explain myself very well..

 

There are no KR in the Nohadon vision, only surgebinders. And Teft told Kaladin KR based their ideas on some old book written by a king whose name Teft couldn't remember. One excerpt of Way of Kings explained that to Nohadon all men's destination is the same and it's the journey that matters.

 

So based on those things I dare say WoK predates KR. And this leads me to believe it was the Shards that suprised the Almighty.

I read a topic that had some shard speculations yesterday and everything was explained really well, it had a bit more on this. I'll add a link if I find the topic again.

Edit: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5956-dawnshards-and-their-relationship-to-the-listeners/ Plenty of spoilers though. The first thing is about Shardblades mimicking Honorblades.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Aleksiel

[asterisk]

 

Kaladin remembered feeling such dedication. He’d spent a year like that, after Tien’s death, driving himself to exhaustion each day. Determined to get better. Determined never to let another person die because of his lack of skill. He’d become the best in his squad, then the best in his company. Some said he’d been the best spearmen in Amaram’s army.

What would have happened to him, if Tarah hadn’t coaxed him out of his single-minded dedication? Would he have burned himself out, as she’d claimed?

It's in chapter 63. Not main plot related, but a cool bit of foreshadowing about Kaladin's past in Amaram's army. I hope we get to see how he became the spear master and more of this mysterious Tarah. Seriously, a second Kal flashback is needed.

[skaa]

This ain't plot related either, and it's also a bit silly, but I just realized that because of the weaker gravity, chickens could fly on Roshar. And I mean really fly, not just the short distance wing-enhanced jumping thing they do on Earth:
 

Dalinar could smell roasting pork on the air, and even chickens. It had been a long time since he’d been served meat from one of the strange Shin flying creatures.

Edited February 12, 2014 by skaa

[Musica]

There are no KR in the Nohadon vision, only surgebinders. And Teft told Kaladin KR based their ideas on some old book written by a king whose name Teft couldn't remember. One excerpt of Way of Kings explained that to Nohadon all men's destination is the same and it's the journey that matters.

 

So based on those things I dare say WoK predates KR. And this leads me to believe it was the Shards that suprised the Almighty.

I read a topic that had some shard speculations yesterday and everything was explained really well, it had a bit more on this. I'll add a link if I find the topic again.

Edit: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5956-dawnshards-and-their-relationship-to-the-listeners/ Plenty of spoilers though. The first thing is about Shardblades mimicking Honorblades.

I didn't say WoK didn't predate the Orders- quite the opposite, I wasn't even aware people questioned it. I considered it a fact.

What I was trying to say (and in my tired condition obviously failing), was that the Almighty was refering to the appereance of Surgebinders and not the Orders themselves when he 'tells' Dalinar they surprised him. Don't forget that everything he says is told kind of in hindsight, as an explanation for whoever watches, and that's why he said the KR's appearing surprised him, and not simply Surgebinders (for the benefit of the person watching).

 

 

Edit: you know, while writing this I started thinking- if it is the KR and not Surgebinders in general that surprised the Almghty, maybe it's because the spren found a way to strenghen the Nahel bond through the Ideals, by making their bonded human get closer to the nature of each of their respected kind of spren- for example, the fact that honorspren are identified with qualities like protecting and leading and (assumingly) the Windrunners' Ideals reflect that, then by speaking the Words after truly grasping their meaning (even essence), a Windrunner becomes more closely tied their spren (and the Spirtual\Cognitive Realm?) which makes their use of Sotrmlight more effective and powerful.

 

aanndd once more I'm afraid I couldn't transform my thoughts well enough into a written explanation. Sorry if it is so.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Dreamer

[Delightful]

This ain't plot related either, and it's also a bit silly, but I just realized that because of the weaker gravity, chickens could fly on Roshar. And I mean really fly, not just the short distance wing-enhanced jumping thing they do on Earth:

Oooh I was wondering about that line! That makes so much sense now, I hadnt thought of the gravity!

[don_karma_II]

There is a mention of starspren in Kaladin chapter. Two stars chasing each other in middle of night between the moons.. Hmm... I wonder if there is any implication to that!!