Reading Excuses - 20140127 - Without Honour - Chapter 2 (-)

[Robinski]

Here is the second chapter of Without Honour - I've tried to take on some of the comments from the first submission, passive voice, wordiness, etc. There are three viewpoints here, which hopefully is less scattered than the new in the Prologue + Chapter 1.

 

As ever, I would very much appreciate your comments. Please excuse the tracked changes, I had already set this chapter up before reviewing for the comments last week.

Cheers, Robinski

[Mandamon]

Alight I'll agree you only have three viewpoints in this chapter, but of them is still a new one  .  Right now, I don't have a problem with this--it's well done, but I'm interested to see how the book develops and whether there would be any confusion for the reader.

 

Damiel's first POV on page 5 seems like it's almost from omniscient rather than limited.  You describe Damiel from an outsider's view as he does magic for the children.  After the children exit, it changes into more of a limited POV.  His second POV on page 9 is definitely in limited.

 

Again, I think I like Marnar and Teimen the best, although there wasn't as much substance this time.  He meets Teiman, who bluffs, Marnar calls him, and then leaves.  It felt a little anticlimactic, especially after stabbing Teiman in the hand last time.

 

The chapter ends with an ellipsis.  Was that intentional, or is this not the whole chapter?  It does feel a little abrupt, perhaps because I'm expecting more of T&M's confrontation.

 

Overall, very well done and still drawing me in.  Looking forward to more (POVs?).

[Robinski]

Ha ha, busted! Damiel is one of the 2 or 3 main viewpoints in the book, having said that, I would be lying if I said that there weren't any more coming. I'm afraid one of them is at the start of Chapter 3, but it's a view from the other side (as it were), and hopefully quite different, so I don't think it will cause a problem... (easy for me to say). The next one after that is in Chapter 10. Both of these are lesser viewpoints in prominence, if not in importance (I think).

 

I felt that the description of the magic needed to feel different, wider as you say, to try and create a sense of wonder, but limited wonder. I deliberately tried to throw a feint by starting with a description of prestidigitation (i.e. parlour tricks) before something that is actually magical is revealed for the adults - hopefully that works.

 

I like your comment about Marnar and Teimen's second meeting, you are quite right, there isn't enough tension or reference to the earlier encounter - in which I failed to go back and adequately account for the lack of reaction in the bystanders. Two fixes for the first edit.

 

I've developed a habit of ending sections with three asterisks (*) and chapters with five asterisks. I always understood ellipsis to be '...' I don't know if that's a font thing, presumably not, as I'm using Times New Roman.

 

Thank you for those comments, much appreciated. Another viewpoint coming your way on Monday (slots permitting)...

Edited January 27, 2014 by Robinski

[andyk]

There are some interesting characters and situations here, generally well written, but the multiple viewpoints and frequent shifts between them are stopping me getting really involved in any of the characters' stories.

 

It feels like not much is happening in some of these scenes, even though when I step back and think about them afterwards I can see that something has moved on or challenged the character in every case. I'm not sure where that disconnect is coming from - will give it some thought.

 

Gjurd's decision to leave Saffen felt a little abrupt to me. Things got bad and he jumped straight to leaving her, a huge decision. I know there'd been talk of going to war, but he'd been reluctant to do it, and seemed to want to stay with her. I felt like it needed just a little more back and forth, a little more arguing around that idea before he went with it.

 

On Damiel, I could see that he was meant to be doing cheap parlour tricks for the kids, and I liked the contrast with the real magic. But the nature of the tricks for the kids seemed at odds with the setting. Tinsel and scraps of coloured paper might be cheap tricks by today's standards but in a pre-industrial setting they'd be very costly things to produce. While it took a little reflection to work out that problem, they did seem out of place straight away because you wouldn't see them in a medieval setting.

 

I don't see a lot of push by the characters towards goals. Damiel wants something but it's secret from the reader. Saffen wants to fight but isn't showing any sign of acting on that. Just as I was starting to think 'what do any of these people want?' we got some insight into Marnar's aims at the end, but it was just a desire to get out of the way of the fighting. I'd be more invested in them if I had a clearer idea what some of these characters were trying to achieve, big desires that were being thwarted.

 

I'm still interested, particularly in Marnar and Saffen, and there's some good details in the descriptions, but I feel a need for a bit of oomph (yes, sorry, vague and unhelpful conclusion, reflecting the vagueness of my own thoughts on this - hopefully they'll be sharper next time).

[Mandamon]

I've developed a habit of ending sections with three asterisks (*) and chapters with five asterisks. I always understood ellipsis to be '...' I don't know if that's a font thing, presumably not, as I'm using Times New Roman.

 

Doh.  Yes, you're right.  I saw things in a row and my mind went to "ellipsis."  I also didn't notice at first glance that there were 5 instead of 3.  Maybe a different type of character to imply the end of a chapter?

 

I agree with Andyk's assessment of Saffen and Gjurd.  I also felt it was abrupt, but didn't really know what else was needed.  I did like that it immediately sets her on the road to something new.

[Robinski]

Thanks Andy, I think your comments are good. I agree with the point about Gjurd leaving. On reflection, perhaps I could get away with the suddenness if the impression was that he's not leaving her for good, which I can see would need a bigger bust up or more ground work - I'll fix that.

 

Also, a good point about the motivations - I think I could quite easily add a reference or small aside for each that would help to reinforce what they are, or would like to be, moving towards.

 

And I can see to your point about oomph. I'm not sure at this moment what I would do to address that, but I'll give it some thought. I do like to have some build up to action, but maybe it's a bit early to have a 'lull' in Chapter 2.

[The Goat]

It looks like everybody hit most of the big stuff. I have to say I agree with Andy on most everything - especially the Staffen Gjurd abruptness. Anyway, I'll stay away from all that and try to touch on other things.  

 

First of all I liked a lot of the characters, just like in the previous chapters. So far I am not having problems with the all the POVs like some of the others are, and I am a big fan of a lot of POV's so I like that you're doing it so well. I really like Staffen, and want to see more of her.

 

Minor details I noticed early on:

 

p. 3 Your spirit was what I loved about you, but why do you cling to this notion to fight?’

 

Why is love in the past tense? Does that mean he doesn't love her any more?

 

p. 4 He was angry now, has brow darkened.

 

This took me out of the story for a second. I'm not sure I understand what happened here. Did his brow actually darken? If so, why and how? I assumed you meant his expression darkened but were looking for another way to say it. Maybe He furrowed his brow or something.

 

I didn't see any other nit picky things like that in the rest of it. 

 

 I liked the magic display (real magic) and the way it contrasted with the fake magic at the beginning. I do feel like it was just put in to show that Damiel is a magic user and wondered a bit at the purpose of that scene in general, since it didn't come up again and didn't characterize him that much, and I cant imagine that progressed the plot. Even though I really liked the description and the counter play of the fake magic, I felt the scene wasn't needed and maybe you could have displayed his magical prowess in another way to have more effect.

 

I liked Marnar's scene the best. I think the end scene was strong, I just wish it hadn't taken so long to get to it from the other scenes because I felt it got a bit bogged down in the middle - but maybe that was my whole not understanding what the point of the Damiel scenes were. I think after you put some more motivations in a la Andy's advice it will improve that stuff greatly. Still, I liked all of it overall and look forward to your next submission.  

[Robinski]

Thank you, Goat, much appreciated,

 

Fair comment, 'loved' is a bit heavy-handed in terms of showing the distance between Gjurd and Saffen, and there isn't really the foreshadowing of that in the short section with Saffen leading into that.

 

I take your point about the brow darkening - I was searching for a different word thatn 'furrow' but there's nothing wrong with it.

 

On Damiel's section, I hope that adding some reference to his motivation within the scene will give it some more 'oomph' per Andy's comment, and justify it's being there - I like the scene, so I will try and fix it.

 

Thanks again!