Jump to content

Recommended Posts

This will be a brief theory, because mostly I just want to open up discussion on the topic.

Most of the surges we have seen have... Fairly broad spheres of influence. The surge of illumination doesn't just deal with controlling light in a few limited ways, it even extends to controlling sound.

So, lets look at the three lashings. The two most useful lashings in my opinion, first and third, come from the surge of gravitation. We can see that within reasonable limits, someone with the surge of gravitation can control the effects of gravity. That all seems to line up.

But lets look at windrunners' second surge, adhesion. Its sort of useful, but compared to any of the other surges, it feels as if it should be able to do more than just stick rocks together. Technically, the surge of adhesion includes all kinds of atmospheric pressure. Atmospheric pressure can do a lot more than hold things together...

So... I predict that the surge of adhesion can do more things than Kaladin or Szeth were aware of. The original order of windrunners might not even have been aware of these additional powers.

This, I suspect, also lines up a little bit with Sanderson's writing style. Magic is never something set in stone, people are figuring out how it works during the books. This is evident with allomancy, in how people were confused about how many metals there were, learning new metals, and wondering how atium fits in with the others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone once asked Brandon how high a Windrunner could go, and the reply was that since the surges are pressure and gravity, he could exit orbit. So I definitely agree that there's more to Adhesion than Kaladin knows. Adhesion is way less flashy than Gravitation from what we've seen but I bet Brandon will do some cool things with it along the road

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be interesting if we got a companion guide after the series is over with some of the ideas he had for the powers that just didn't find a place in the story. (Such as the orbit idea, as I don't necessarily see a way to make it fit the story as of yet.)

Or a legitimate [and complete] Ars Arcanum as the final volume of the Cosmere. Has Brandon ever said one way or the other about that before?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah sticking stuff together seems pretty lame. It can be sprayed though that's a plus. Maybe because we are thinking in military uses or single combat. Maybe there is some domestic/civilian uses. Binding prisoners for example. Also we dont know how bindspren works with full lashings for sure maybe there is a way to use bindspren to increase efficiency or range. 

One use could be increasing the weight of small object, throwing it, sticking it to target unable to get up because of the weight.

The sticking together of things sound like it describes the atmospheric pressure part, but what about the vacuum? maybe that's a source of another 4th lashing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Nightblade said:

I think it would be cool if he could do something like Wax, and make a bubble around himself that reverses gravity and pushes away objects.

If Roshar got the science and tech level of Wax's Era (understanding gravity and all that) I could see that becoming a thing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/14/2016 at 1:00 PM, Nightblade said:

I think it would be cool if he could do something like Wax, and make a bubble around himself that reverses gravity and pushes away objects.

 

Maybe, yes! That's the surge of gravitation, I was more of talking about how adhesion could do more things. But your idea is not out of the question by any means.

I suspect that a powerful enough third lashing could defend you against even bullets as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe you could use Adhesion in reverse? To make objects that are together to come apart? I'm guessing that, based on the force objects are kept together, you could propel objects at fairly high speeds this way.
TL-DR: Reverse Adhesion gun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, kenod said:

Maybe you could use Adhesion in reverse? To make objects that are together to come apart? I'm guessing that, based on the force objects are kept together, you could propel objects at fairly high speeds this way.
TL-DR: Reverse Adhesion gun.

It's been speculated/assumed that Division (a different Surge) already works that way, in essence.  So Windrunners probably couldn't do that, but other orders maybe.  EDIT: However, attaching a storming ton of lashings to the same object in the same direction could achieve that instead.

Edited by Jondesu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/12/2016 at 0:57 AM, asterion137 said:

so kaladin might literally be able to own the winds?

Adhesion really does have the most potential for expansion and creativity. Gravitation is pretty much tapped out; already have reduced weight, weightlessness, fall/flying, lashing people around.  

Pressure could crush things, or trying to keep it as similar to gravitation, exert pressure in different directions like how basic lashings is used. There was a thread about a force push idea. What is the purpose of this when basic lashing does the same thing. Distance and Damage! that's what, no touching required.

So to summarize this lashing gonna call it Complete lashing- This ability changes the force and direction of pressure exerted on object or person. 

Someone more knowledgeable with have to double check if this would work, all i know of air pressure is from grade school and youtube lol. With this we have 2 lashings for each surge, had some crazy ideas for vacuum, but they were crazy and its part of the same surge anyway.

The lashings have some good uses outside battle,full lashing for prisoners and making traps for high value items. Basic lashing for travel. Reverse lashing cant think of anything.My complete lashing is kind of like wind telekinesis, may uses without being too broken an ability.  Imagine Kaliden complete lashing a ball in one direction then another and varying speeds and force so it appears like he is using telekinesis, but from the sound of wind others will know what he's really doing. Maybe he can complete lash himself to make himself more aerodynamic to help with his fly/falling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We know all objects exist in the three realms, Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual. 

Perhaps the surges exist that way as well. 

We see that Shallan's lightweaving could do some flashy physical things, but where it really got profound was when she helped change other people. That was either a cognitive or spiritual aspect of that surge. 

I suppose, all the surges must have this three-fold nature. 

Perhaps all the magic systems in the Cosmere are really this way. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

We know all objects exist in the three realms, Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual. 

Perhaps the surges exist that way as well. 

We see that Shallan's lightweaving could do some flashy physical things, but where it really got profound was when she helped change other people. That was either a cognitive or spiritual aspect of that surge. 

I suppose, all the surges must have this three-fold nature. 

Perhaps all the magic systems in the Cosmere are really this way. 

 

Actually, you may have said something highly profound there. I always assumed that they just saw an opportunity to truly change themselves when she told them how she perceived they could be. If the magic was actually forging their souls, I would be interested, but in retrospect not surprised.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

We know all objects exist in the three realms, Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual. 

Perhaps the surges exist that way as well. 

We see that Shallan's lightweaving could do some flashy physical things, but where it really got profound was when she helped change other people. That was either a cognitive or spiritual aspect of that surge. 

I suppose, all the surges must have this three-fold nature. 

Perhaps all the magic systems in the Cosmere are really this way. 

 

Cool, that's a messed up ability to though. If she really is manipulating people without trying. So she's a sharingen user?(google it)

It does say with lashings spiritual link to earth is broken and bubbles are created around objects. Give some examples, or what it would look like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, summers said:

Cool, that's a messed up ability to though. If she really is manipulating people without trying. So she's a sharingen user?(google it)

It does say with lashings spiritual link to earth is broken and bubbles are created around objects. Give some examples, or what it would look like.

I don't think Shallan did classical mind control. She wasn't forcing them. There was at least one man who resisted what she was doing when she convinced the mercenaries to help defend her wagon train. She was helping them see themselves differently. 

Of course, I really wonder if it could be used in a dangerous way and how much the oaths defend against that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe part of the spiritual/cognitive aspect of Kaladin's surge of adhesion is his ability to fight... Well, like the wind. I really like the realmatic explanation for those little extra abilities radiants seem to manifest. It is hard to say if being a radiant grants a person these abilities, or if this is part of who they are and that is part of what attracted a radiant spren... Probably a little of both, honestly. Being a radiant likely amplifies some pre-existing attributes in a person that relate to their surges.

At any rate... I also believe that atmospheric pressure can influence the physical realm in more ways than sticking rocks together. I'm a little skeptical that the abilities would be as dramatic as making a tornado, but... Some level of wind-control is probably part of the package.

Edited by Drake Marshall
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

I don't think Shallan did classical mind control. She wasn't forcing them. There was at least one man who resisted what she was doing when she convinced the mercenaries to help defend her wagon train. She was helping them see themselves differently. 

Of course, I really wonder if it could be used in a dangerous way and how much the oaths defend against that. 

So more influencing then. OK, yeah its probably both Going to say its always who they were or likely to be and the introduction of their spren solidified the effect or kept them set on the path. That event always seemed strange, even without a re-read.

 

4 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:

I believe part of the spiritual/cognitive aspect of Kaladin's surge of adhesion is his ability to fight... Well, like the wind. I really like the realmatic explanation for those little extra abilities radiants seem to manifest. It is hard to say if being a radiant grants a person these abilities, or if this is part of who they are and that is part of what attracted a radiant spren... Probably a little of both, honestly. Being a radiant likely amplifies some pre-existing attributes in a person that relate to their surges.

At any rate... I also believe that atmospheric pressure can influence the physical realm in more ways than sticking rocks together. I'm a little skeptical that the abilities would be as dramatic as making a tornado, but... Some level of wind-control is probably part of the package.

yeah Tornado be too much, but I could see someone doing it. His already riding highstorms like a surfer.

The cognitive/spiritual topics is hard for me to grasp, but going by how the lashings are described, the word spiritual is used when describing the lashings. So basic lashing could be seen as mostly physical, partly spiritual for it to work.

So are you thinking that each surge/lashing uses

1. Variations of all three or at least 2 of the realms.

2.That each surge has a separate power related to to the realms.

3.The orders itself has 3 aspects; like Windrunners have basic lashings for physical and 2 other realmatic abilities. 

Going to say that his fighting and leadership ability is Cognitive, because its how others view him and himself. Spiritual is his squire ability that lets those close to him use storm light. That's going with number 3. 

With number 2 leads to tons of potential for creativity, what's more Brandon's style though? magic system with tons of potential or with hard limits from the outset. Anyways, will just post this now read more on realmatic theory then post more later.

Having trouble with the quote format.

4 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, summers said:

So more influencing then. OK, yeah its probably both Going to say its always who they were or likely to be and the introduction of their spren solidified the effect or kept them set on the path. That event always seemed strange, even without a re-read.

 

yeah Tornado be too much, but I could see someone doing it. His already riding highstorms like a surfer.

The cognitive/spiritual topics is hard for me to grasp, but going by how the lashings are described, the word spiritual is used when describing the lashings. So basic lashing could be seen as mostly physical, partly spiritual for it to work.

So are you thinking that each surge/lashing uses

1. Variations of all three or at least 2 of the realms.

2.That each surge has a separate power related to to the realms.

3.The orders itself has 3 aspects; like Windrunners have basic lashings for physical and 2 other realmatic abilities. 

Going to say that his fighting and leadership ability is Cognitive, because its how others view him and himself. Spiritual is his squire ability that lets those close to him use storm light. That's going with number 3. 

With number 2 leads to tons of potential for creativity, what's more Brandon's style though? magic system with tons of potential or with hard limits from the outset. Anyways, will just post this now read more on realmatic theory then post more later.

Having trouble with the quote format.

My guess is, each surge will have a physical surge, a cognitive surge and a spiritual surge. 

So, for Shallan, that will be making images, helping people see things (or maybe her memory?) and helping people become things. 

I expect Dalinar will be able to bond things together, and bind people together, as a nation or army. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, Shallan's mnemonic ability and Kaladin's squires are something currently called a Resonance. It is caused by an interaction of having more than one power i.e. 2 surges. Surges manipulate basic forces, like gravity, but we have no idea how they function when present in other Realms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

Actually, Shallan's mnemonic ability and Kaladin's squires are something currently called a Resonance. It is caused by an interaction of having more than one power i.e. 2 surges. Surges manipulate basic forces, like gravity, but we have no idea how they function when present in other Realms.

Emphasis mine:  It should be noted that Resonances only occur when one only has a small, non-one, non-zero number of powers, e.g. Mistborn and Full Feruchemists didn't have them, but Surgebinders do.  (Twinborn might also have them, but none of the onscreen examples thus far have had them on display yet)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

Emphasis mine:  It should be noted that Resonances only occur when one only has a small, non-one, non-zero number of powers, e.g. Mistborn and Full Feruchemists didn't have them, but Surgebinders do.  (Twinborn might also have them, but none of the onscreen examples thus far have had them on display yet)

It's believed that Wax's steel bubble is one, though I don't remember if that's proven incorrect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jondesu said:

It's believed that Wax's steel bubble is one, though I don't remember if that's proven incorrect.

That's a savantism trick, Wayne's ability to act is self-taught, and Miles' healing factor is just Compounding at work.  There have been WoBs for all of these, pretty much ever since we learned that Resonances were a thing in the first place.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

That's a savantism trick, Wayne's ability to act is self-taught, and Miles' healing factor is just Compounding at work.  There have been WoBs for all of these, pretty much ever since we learned that Resonances were a thing in the first place.  

Found it in the annotations for AoL, actually, but yeah, that's not one. I think it's been indicated (by Khriss) that she expects Twinborns to have one, but I don't think we've seen any examples, like you said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...