How is Kenton not autonomous enough?

[Farnsworth]

Usually, a person can use investiture when they have a similar aspect to that of the shard. For example, if you are super devoted to the land, you might become an Elantrian. How is Kenton not autonomous enough to have better sand mastery?

[Weltall]

We really don't know enough about the mechanics of Sand Mastery to know how it works. The prose version has some stuff that may be relevant to the question but the graphic novel hasn't yet gotten to the part of the story where it shows up and it's one of those things that might have been tweaked in the adaptation.

That said, I don't think that how autonomous Kenton is has any real bearing on his power. One thing to remember is that acting in accordance with the intent of the Shard that powers a magic system is only one part of the picture and in most cases it's a fairly minor one. For examples from other books:

Spoiler

While you need the intent of 'Ruin' to use hemalurgy, the actual power you get from it is the result of completely separate factors: What metal you use for the spike determines what you get, as does where you stick the victim and where you put the spike in the recipient. As the epigraphs even point out, it's all down to where you place the spikes, your level of attunement with the idea of ruining someone is effectively irrelevant to the result as long as you have it.

Similarly for allomancy, you act in accordance with Preservation's intent in the snapping process but whether you become a misting, a mistborn or later a twinborn is determined by your (s)DNA and that also affects how powerful you are. The further your bloodline is from the original lerasium-derived mistborn, the less power you're likely to have. Vin was very close to a 'pure' bloodline so her raw power was stronger than Kelsier's but she was still weaker than Elend, who got the full lerasium treatment. How closely any of the three were 'attuned' to Preservation in their actions or mindset was unimportant to their relative power as mistborn.

And in Warbreaker, your power has nothing to do with how well you express the idea of Endowment (aside from the Returned) and everything to do with how many Breaths you're able to accumulate. Otherwise, you get to participate in the system just by being born on Nalthis.

So I don't think that Kenton's attitude on its own explains his relatively weak ability to control sand, though he's clearly more skilled at manipulating what he has got than anyone else, by necessity. He might have just gotten the really short end of the sDNA stick, so while he was able to undergo Initiation and gain access to sand mastery because he acted with autonomy in the right way, that in and of itself isn't going to make him powerful.

Actually, it's quite possible that the reason he's got so much trouble is that his mother was a Darksider. She presumably has no sDNA for sand mastery and that may be why what Kenton expresses is weaker than you'd expect from the son of someone so good at it. Spiritual genetics in the Cosmere are already noted to be weird. xD

Edited November 11, 2016 by Weltall

[Yata]

I always though that the reason was in his mixed heritage...as far as we know the Sand Mastery's potential is somehow tied to genetics and the mixed pool of someone without not elegible for sand mastery (as far as we know no Darksiders may be a Sand Mastery...but it's not a confirmed fact)

[Landis963]

I thought it was tied to the reason why he was mastering in the first place: namely, to show up/impress his father.  Once his father died, Kenton's reason for mastering died with him.  And he got it back with a vengeance when he found a reason for mastering that didn't involve anyone else's opinion.

[Modal Seoul]

I believe that Autonomy has a big part in the system. Investiture can't be channeled in large forms on Taldain anyway. The Daysiders have that huge star shining down, while the Darksiders have a white dwarf, and are unable to do anything with Investiture. But they do have technological advances over Dayside. I think since Kenton is a result between a person from Darkside and Praxton(Lord Mastrell) it hinders him and at the same time, gives him that ability to use Investiture. The word autonomy means self-governing, which explains her isolation, but that doesn't mean she can't control the way Investiture is represented.

[Yata]

Actually probably Taldain is of the Place in the Cosmere with more free Investiture (for WoB).

Probably every bit of Sunlight carries Investiture.

[Modal Seoul]

In her essay, Khriss does say that it's hard to represent Investiture in Taldain.

[Yata]

11 hours ago, Captains Domon said:

In her essay, Khriss does say that it's hard to represent Investiture in Taldain.

Yeah but the Planet gives a lot of Investiture to the envirorment (sure there are a few local people who could use It).

Also the Essay remarks "the Investiture drop directly from the Sky".

It's the reason for the Sand's recharge after some hours under the sun. This would not happen on another planets

[teknopathetic]

Well, so far we don't know if Sandmastery is of Autonomy or something older like "listening". We also don't know if Autonomy values individual or group Autonomy more. We still have a lot of questions. 

 

I would love to know if Taldain had life before Automy arrived. If so, then there is a chance sandmastery is something Autonomy wants stamped out. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by teknopathetic

[Mr. Staccato]

15 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Well, so far we don't know if Sandmastery is of Autonomy or something older like "listening". We also don't know if Autonomy values individual or group Autonomy more. We still have a lot of questions. 

I would love to know if Taldain had life before Automy arrived. If so, then there is a chance sandmastery is something Autonomy wants stamped out. 

It would be cool if just once there was a magic system in any Sanderson books that wasn't actually related to any of the shards. Also, just wondering since the idea you pointed out was unique - where'd you get the impression that Sandmastery might be something Autonomy wanted to eradicate?

[+Extesian]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Staccato said:

It would be cool if just once there was a magic system in any Sanderson books that wasn't actually related to any of the shards. Also, just wondering since the idea you pointed out was unique - where'd you get the impression that Sandmastery might be something Autonomy wanted to eradicate?

Doesn't look like it

Quote

QUESTION

If the force opposing Adonalsium is an entity like him/it (?), have we seen any magic that is related to this entity?

BRANDON SANDERSON

No. All the magic you see come from the shards of Adonalsium.

Maybe that has some wiggle room, maybe it's present tense, but I think not.

[Mr. Staccato]

@Extesian I haven't actually read White Sand though - number one reason for this being that our bookstores suck around these parts. (And I'm not being mean here, okay? It's 2017! What are these people still doing stocking the shelves with the Divergent series??? For god's sake the franchise has ended... )

So I was a bit surprised when @teknopathetic said that Sandmastery might be something Autonomy was something he wanted stamped out. Huh, so that wasn't true.

Anyway I have this theory. Isn't Autonomy the capacity for one individual to make decisions for himself/herself? It's not really freedom, per se, otherwise you know the shard name would be Freedom - not Autonomy. So what is the underlying concept of being autonomous? What does being free to decide your own decisions for yourself entail?

Simple. Willpower.

Sandmastery is tied to will. Extrapolating from what everyone's said of the series (since again I haven't read the book), then probably the reason why Kenton was so weak with sandmastery was because he had something to prove to his father - and contrary to popular belief, when you do something just so you could prove some one wrong, then you're not actually exercising your will - your only under the illusion of exercising it but in truth you're undermining it by letting someone else's perceptions and wishes dominate it.

When his father died, his will - so used to following someone else's wishes - faded. It was only when he started making decisions for himself; harried, confused decisions but very much his own - after years of waylaying it in favor of someone else's - that it came to him with the full force of repressed freedom. As for the question of skill, I think that has more to do with inherent talent.

Then again feel free to poke holes in this. I haven't read anything yet - I cannot claim expertise in any of this.

[Farnsworth]

You got the his whole theory without reading WS? I'm seriously impressed! Also liked the theory, I can see why it would work.

[Mr. Staccato]

On 3/17/2017 at 3:56 PM, Figberts said:

You got the his whole theory without reading WS? I'm seriously impressed! Also liked the theory, I can see why it would work.

Thank you, thank you - you're making me blush.  Kind of a debate geek here. I didn't actually think someone would agree with me on this but it's nice to know you find the idea plausible. You just made my day~