Keteks

[Joe ST]

And you have to remember, musicspren, that these guys (the staff) are full of holes...

[Lady_Yasha]

And you have to remember, musicspren, that these guys (the staff) are full of holes...

Are you including yourself in that broad sweeping statement?

"Holy" is a matter of perspective, just like what I choose to attribute importance to might not be considered by others. Some people have subscribed to Jedi -- a fictional order -- but would the majority of us put something nonsensical on a pedestal?

I, too, believe everyone has the right to believe what they may if it makes them happy, but one man's opinion on holiness is not everyone's. I don't see Jesus as holy because, to me, he never existed.

In that sense, keteks are simply romance poetry -- not romance in the literal definition, but the Romantic movement.

[Studier of Keteks]

Might I comment on how ridiculous and petty it seem to be squabbling over what makes a ketek amazing rather than either:

Appreciating it

or

Attempting to outdo it

In future I would appreciate you not to bring such foolishness into this topic.

[Lady_Yasha]

Might I comment on how ridiculous and petty it seem to be squabbling over what makes a ketek amazing rather than either:

Appreciating it

or

Attempting to outdo it

In future I would appreciate you not to bring such foolishness into this topic.

Isn't that what the poll outlines? -- the choice to either agree of disagree that keteks are "amazing" amongst other opinions. If you don't want a discussion of people's choices don't give them that option to begin with, as the second question clearly does.

And we're simply clarifying the perspective of each individual and how one attribute doesn't apply to everyone. Let's go back to the actual question in verbatim:

are keteks really "holy" as stated in the definition or just difficult to create and therefore admirable?

Should we then not be able to discuss what has been asked of us?

I understand this is your thread and you want to keep it civil but we're having a healthy debate on the topics you yourself instigated by asking those questions. There's a difference between debating and squabbling, and I see no-one being immature or name-calling.

[Shivertongue]

Should we then not be able to discuss what has been asked of us?

I understand this is your thread and you want to keep it civil but we're having a healthy debate on the topics you yourself instigated by asking those questions. There's a difference between debating and squabbling, and I see no-one being immature or name-calling.

And believe me, I have been keeping an eye on the debate even as I engage in it. If immaturity and name-calling do surface - and I am endeavoring to keep such conflict out of this and all threads - then I will personally step in as an Administrator, and not as just another member.

[JamesW]

I was bored while cooking and wanted to try throwing together a Ketek.

This isn't TWOK, but was inspired by mythos in my book I'm working on.

Arising is he, father of blades. The ForgeMaster--Master forging the blade of fathers. He has arisen.

Arising is he/ father of blades /The Forgemaster/Master forging the Blade of fathers/he has arisen

[ReaderAt2046]

God,/rejecting all evils./Behold,/evils all/rejecting God.

Beyond death/the choice eternal/beware/eternally choosing/the death beyond.

[Zenith]

I tried to make one, tell me if it works, I'm not sure.

I guess it's on the Voidbringers...

Without void/they come/terrible/come they/void without

With punctuation, it makes more sense.

Without void, they come; terrible, come they, void without

....Does that work? I put it together earlier...it's hard, but rewarding.

[ReaderAt2046]

I tried to make one, tell me if it works, I'm not sure.

I guess it's on the Voidbringers...

Without void/they come/terrible/come they/void without

With punctuation, it makes more sense.

Without void, they come; terrible, come they, void without

....Does that work? I put it together earlier...it's hard, but rewarding.

Good!

[Glaring at the Survivor]

Hey guys. I need your opinion on these keteks I threw together.

By the way, I would love to see some of your keteks too.

Keteks

Definition:

A Ketek is a form of holy Vorin poetry which reads the same forward and backward (allowing for changes in verb form), and is also divisible into five sections, each of which also expresses a complete thought.

Death

Death comes. Without stopping Death arrives. Now Death, the death now arrived, Death stops without – Come Death!

Death comes./ Without stopping Death arrives./ Now Death, the death now arrived,/ Death stops without/ – Come Death!

__________________________________________________________________________________

Diamonds

Beautiful diamonds, the blood of diamonds creates greed – sin to beauty, beauty to sin – greed creates diamonds of blood, the diamonds beautiful.

Beautiful diamonds,/ the blood of diamonds creates greed/ – sin to beauty, beauty to sin – /greed creates diamonds of blood, /the diamonds beautiful.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Darkness

Darkness encroaches. Nearer, day by day: dawns darkness’s dawn. Day by day nearer, encroaching darkness.

Darkness encroaches/. Nearer, day by day: /dawns darkness’s dawn./ Day by day nearer,/ encroaching darkness.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Moonlight

Illuminates darkness by moonlight. Silhouettes created by pale and gray light. Dim lights of lights dim, light pale and gray creates silhouettes. Moonlight by darkness illuminates.

Illuminates darkness by moonlight./ Silhouettes created by pale and gray light. /Dim lights of lights dim, /light pale and gray creates silhouettes./ Moonlight by darkness illuminates.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Note: the second writing of the ketek is separated into its five segments

PS: Szeth-son-son-Vallano is awesome

They're good. (Yes, Szeth is awesome. How could he not be?)

My personal opinion on Keteks is that they should be subjected at whatever is on your mind, or whatever you can say in Ketek-form because of the complexity. I've done like two or three (only one as the 2 in my sig).

[Studier of Keteks]

hey guys. I've been busy recently so I haven't made it here in a while. I'd just like to say that while I am the initiator of this topic, I respect the views of all those who have made the effort to post here. My last post was poorly written. I simply wished to redirect the discussion away from religion in general. I believe those waters are ripe with the danger of unintentional offense. I meant no disrespect to either party and I can see both points of thee discussion.

Furthermore, I wish to apologize if my rash comments lead to any discomfort for those in this topic.

Also, when I originally asked the question "are keteks really "holy" as stated in the definition or just difficult to create and therefore admirable?" I was referring to within the Way of Kings.

[Mailliw73]

I have finished the work and work the finish have I

Does this work as a ketek? I am not sure if "and" counts as a section.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Mailliw73

[Mailliw73]

Storms, thunder booms, lightning, booming thunder, a storm

Shardblade, fought for, destroying a kingdom destroyed, for which fought, shardblade

[18th Shard]

Waves, crested white,

create splashes,

fall down falls,

splashing, create

white-crested waves.

 

Stars, shining,

to darkness fading

-changing winds changing-

fading darkness

to shining stars.

[Argent]

Stars, shining,

to darkness fading

-changing winds changing-

fading darkness

to shining stars.

 

This one is quite nice. Only the middle line bothers me - in my head, it sounds better as "changing winds change" or something like that. Verb forms and tenses are irrelevant for keteks, as we know.

[Dysphoric Kitten]

I think we should reclassify the Ketek scale. What I propose:

K0 - Perfect symmetry and structure. (It is just pyrotechnics, though - barely a soul)

K1 - Verb, plural, etc. variation. Strictest ketek to allow subtleties.

K2 - Verb to noun, etc. variation.

K3 - Linking words are ignored symmetry-wise. No longer canon.

K4 - Largely, but not completely, symmetric.

K5 - Not one sentence made from five distinct thoughts, or very unsymmetric.

NK - Not a ketek.

Additional (optional) inner division - a + is added when the thought division and perhaps punctuation are symmetric as well.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Ookla the Tardy

[FeatherWriter]

Welp I have a problem and that problem is writing lots of long keteks. I've got two that are based on Stormlight Archive characters, so I'll post those. I have a few others kicking about that are a little better written, but they're based on characters from a different story, so most people wouldn't understand them unfortunately. I could post those here, but for now I'll just do these two.

 

Tien

Screaming, I sacrifice for Tien -- my brother -- my life from youth,

He takes that spear, this weapon with eager hands,

I need him, he needs me

Hands eager with weapon, this spear that takes his youth from life,

My brother, my Tien, for sacrifice, I scream

 

Jasnah (Slight WoR Spoilers)

Unseen nights of strangeness to worry and late returned demands

Her form’s darkness cast to light, storms spent surge anew,

Discovering glass among falling worlds, falling among glass, discovering new surges,

Spending storm’s light to cast darkness, forming her demands

Returning late and worried to strangeness of nights unseen

 

As for classification, the first has only pronoun (he/him, he/his, I/me) and two verb-form swaps (screaming/scream) (need/needs). Depending on how pronouns would be counted, I'd say possibly a K1? K2, if pronoun change would not be allowed.

 

The second one is probably K2, with multiple verb form changes (worry/worried) (spent/spending), a few part of speech changes (form's/forming) (surge[v]/surges[pl. n]), and that one pesky cheat with (new/anew) that I tried so hard to get rid of but couldn't quite pull off.

[Delightful]

Tien

Screaming, I sacrifice for Tien -- my brother -- my life from youth,

He takes that spear, this weapon with eager hands,

I need him, he needs me

Hands eager with weapon, this spear that takes his youth from life,

My brother, my Tien, for sacrifice, I scream

This just totally took my breath away. It's chilling and sad and perfect.

[FeatherWriter]

Ah, thank you! Keteks are just so fun to write, especially if you can find a good reversal to pull off. I loved the idea of Kaladin sacrificing his life (and dreams) for Tien becoming Tien's life as a sacrifice, and keteks are really excellent at that kind of cool reversal. Pair that with taking up the spear for the first time, to the spear taking away lives and I think it turned out really well!

[Elbereth]

Welp I have a problem and that problem is writing lots of long keteks. I've got two that are based on Stormlight Archive characters, so I'll post those. I have a few others kicking about that are a little better written, but they're based on characters from a different story, so most people wouldn't understand them unfortunately. I could post those here, but for now I'll just do these two.

 

Tien

Screaming, I sacrifice for Tien -- my brother -- my life from youth,

He takes that spear, this weapon with eager hands,

I need him, he needs me

Hands eager with weapon, this spear that takes his youth from life,

My brother, my Tien, for sacrifice, I scream

 

Jasnah (Slight WoR Spoilers)

Unseen nights of strangeness to worry and late returned demands

Her form’s darkness cast to light, storms spent surge anew,

Discovering glass among falling worlds, falling among glass, discovering new surges,

Spending storm’s light to cast darkness, forming her demands

Returning late and worried to strangeness of nights unseen

 

As for classification, the first has only pronoun (he/him, he/his, I/me) and two verb-form swaps (screaming/scream) (need/needs). Depending on how pronouns would be counted, I'd say possibly a K1? K2, if pronoun change would not be allowed.

 

The second one is probably K2, with multiple verb form changes (worry/worried) (spent/spending), a few part of speech changes (form's/forming) (surge[v]/surges[pl. n]), and that one pesky cheat with (new/anew) that I tried so hard to get rid of but couldn't quite pull off.

I went through this entire thread today, because I was bored, and those are the most impressive keteks I've seen. Well done!

[FeatherWriter]

Thank you! I suppose I could post some more of my keteks over here, but they're not Stormlight Archive based... They're based around the characters of a story that I write with a few other Brandon Sanderson fans called The Sydney Scrougners. So... they might not totally make sense to people who haven't read them, but they're at least keteks still?
 
One for Katie Horner, our stalwart captain keeping us together:

Fights without unity, of dreams she speaks not,
Commands and orders has she all given,
Captain gives all she has,
Orders and commands not spoken,
She dreams of unity without fights.

 
One for Seiko Watanabe, who has become a criminal to support his little sisters, with a hint of romantic relationship with Miranda, because I ship those two like crazy:

Family abandoned by protector who takes life without passion.
Red blood on hands to turn him away.
Risks all, dissolving rules that touch Miranda, for Miranda's touch that rules dissolves all risks away.
He turns to hands-on blood-red passion without lives taken.
Who protects by abandoning family?

 
One for fiVe, my AI who thought she had been abandoned by her creator until she found a new home with Seiko and Miranda and has now decided she never wants to go back.

Loneliness without final goodbyes,
Before family called so fondly once to me,
Leaving you as alone as you left me
To once fond so-called family before, Goodbye
Finally without loneliness

 
And finally, my favorite, one written for the two Prophets of "The Assembly of True Judgement, the sinister Kaiju cult that we've been squaring off against. The two prophets are a brother and sister who apparently received a miraculous vision after seeing a nuclear bomb flash in Sydney. As a result of this miracle, their eyes turned bright blue as they saw the prophecied end of humanity. "Hallowed come the Judges" is the cult's chanted mantra, and the "False Prophet" would be Miranda, who also witnessed that flash but has sworn to destroy the Kaiju at all costs.

Today, dying Prophets falsely judge the coming hallowed end
Shared blood’s all-seeing eyes brightened by flash,
By brightened eyes see all blood’s shared end,
Hallowed come the Judges,
False Prophet dies today

 

[TheShogun]

Me, me me, me me me, me me, me.

 

A Ketek about myself.

Edited February 18, 2014 by TheShogun

[Delightful]

Ah, thank you! Keteks are just so fun to write, especially if you can find a good reversal to pull off. I loved the idea of Kaladin sacrificing his life (and dreams) for Tien becoming Tien's life as a sacrifice, and keteks are really excellent at that kind of cool reversal. Pair that with taking up the spear for the first time, to the spear taking away lives and I think it turned out really well!

I totally hadn't considered Keteks should be thematically reversed, but that makes so much sense. Thanks for explaining that! Now I think I'm gonna go try my hand at writing some

[FeatherWriter]

I totally hadn't considered Keteks should be thematically reversed, but that makes so much sense. Thanks for explaining that! Now I think I'm gonna go try my hand at writing some

 

Yep! That's my favorite thing to do with keteks! I think there's just something really fun about writing a sequence that uses the same words, but has a completely different meaning when you flip them around. There's plenty of ways to write keteks with the meaning being the same in each part, reversed or unreversed. I think the challenge of making something with a new meaning when it flips is lots of fun.

 

Keteks take a while to write (it usually takes me about half an hour to do one) and they almost feel like more of a puzzle than a regular poem. Just kinda keep trying phrases, keeping in mind what you want to say and seeing if you can make that work with the flipped meaning. You'll probably wrestle with it for a bit, but there's nothing more satisfying than finally finding a prasing that works!

[The Rooster]

Yep! That's my favorite thing to do with keteks! I think there's just something really fun about writing a sequence that uses the same words, but has a completely different meaning when you flip them around. There's plenty of ways to write keteks with the meaning being the same in each part, reversed or unreversed. I think the challenge of making something with a new meaning when it flips is lots of fun.

 

Keteks take a while to write (it usually takes me about half an hour to do one) and they almost feel like more of a puzzle than a regular poem. Just kinda keep trying phrases, keeping in mind what you want to say and seeing if you can make that work with the flipped meaning. You'll probably wrestle with it for a bit, but there's nothing more satisfying than finally finding a prasing that works!

 

They are Mucho fun indeed.  I've started writing them on my cell phone in evernote while I rock my 5 mo daughter to sleep.  Its a really cool way to exercise the mind while in calm darkness.   This is how far I got on one last night.  It's not polished and needs some work but I find even unfinished keteks entertaining.

 

Dreaming, between waking and sleep, young one cries, cried one, young sleep and woken between dreams. 

 

hahaha, I especially like that even when it doesn't really come together it makes them extra ethereal and existential.

Edited February 18, 2014 by AG Rooster