Goatborn

Theory about Identity and interactions with allomancy

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I'm not sure if this is the right subset of the forum to bring this up, but I generally get really bored on long drives and start turning over theories, such as Scooby Doo being set in a dystopian society where antisocial behaviour is severely punished. (Jail time for dressing as a ghost?)

 

Alas, I digress. My latest thought centers around the elusive concept of "Identity" and the reference to storing it in Feruchemy.

 

My idea centers around the most powerful domination of identity on Scadrial - the control of hemalurgists/spiked creatures by an allomancer. I think that while emotional allomancy pushes and pulls on specific emotions, I think that it tampers with one's identity on different levels. The stronger one's identity, the less susceptible they would be to Soothers and Rioters.

 

There are specific examples in Mistborn of individuals resisting/detecting emotional allomancy through training or sheer force of will.

 

This thought originally came about surrounding the kandra and the fact that their identity was gifted to them through Hemalurgy. It is also the point where I could use some input. Kandra are noted to be immune to standard emotional allomancy, and only a duralumin burn will crack that shell to allow another mind in. This is different to when a duralumin + brass burn is used on a human, like with Straff Venture - Vin was not able to suddenly control him, just deadened him completely.

 

So Hemalurgy is providing protection as well as a weakness? Or is the mistwraith nature of kandra protective, while Hemalurgy provides the weakness?

 

The follow up to that is the koloss - they are hemalurgically spiked humans, which combines the two examples above. One could argue that their identity has been diluted by having multiple human spikes driven into them, hence making it easier to control them en masse.

 

In my mind, a Feruchemist storing Identity would be far more susceptible than normal to soothing and rioting, while one that is tapping Identity would be nearly impossible to influence.

 

I also feel it is important to mention that Identity is not something only gained through magical means, just as one does not have to burn/tap pewter to be strong. I believe that there will be individuals who will be extremely resistant to emotional allomancy just through their own confidence/knowledge of themselves - such as a shardholder or Hoid (possibly - how does having so many identities affect his identity?).

 

The next installment shall appear upon my next 4 hour drive! (16 hours - oh! Allomancy! - of driving seems to have an inhibiting affect on theorising)

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I'm not sure if this is the right subset of the forum to bring this up, but I generally get really bored on long drives and start turning over theories, such as Scooby Doo being set in a dystopian society where antisocial behaviour is severely punished. (Jail time for dressing as a ghost?)

Alas, I digress. My latest thought centers around the elusive concept of "Identity" and the reference to storing it in Feruchemy.

My idea centers around the most powerful domination of identity on Scadrial - the control of hemalurgists/spiked creatures by an allomancer. I think that while emotional allomancy pushes and pulls on specific emotions, I think that it tampers with one's identity on different levels. The stronger one's identity, the less susceptible they would be to Soothers and Rioters.

There are specific examples in Mistborn of individuals resisting/detecting emotional allomancy through training or sheer force of will.

This thought originally came about surrounding the kandra and the fact that their identity was gifted to them through Hemalurgy. It is also the point where I could use some input. Kandra are noted to be immune to standard emotional allomancy, and only a duralumin burn will crack that shell to allow another mind in. This is different to when a duralumin + brass burn is used on a human, like with Straff Venture - Vin was not able to suddenly control him, just deadened him completely.

So Hemalurgy is providing protection as well as a weakness? Or is the mistwraith nature of kandra protective, while Hemalurgy provides the weakness?

The follow up to that is the koloss - they are hemalurgically spiked humans, which combines the two examples above. One could argue that their identity has been diluted by having multiple human spikes driven into them, hence making it easier to control them en masse.

In my mind, a Feruchemist storing Identity would be far more susceptible than normal to soothing and rioting, while one that is tapping Identity would be nearly impossible to influence.

I also feel it is important to mention that Identity is not something only gained through magical means, just as one does not have to burn/tap pewter to be strong. I believe that there will be individuals who will be extremely resistant to emotional allomancy just through their own confidence/knowledge of themselves - such as a shardholder or Hoid (possibly - how does having so many identities affect his identity?).

The next installment shall appear upon my next 4 hour drive! (16 hours - oh! Allomancy! - of driving seems to have an inhibiting affect on theorising)

This has come up before, but my link-fu is weak...I cannot find.
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Oh man! I will come up with an original theory eventually! Thanks for the heads-up :D

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My idea centers around the most powerful domination of identity on Scadrial - the control of hemalurgists/spiked creatures by an allomancer. I think that while emotional allomancy pushes and pulls on specific emotions, I think that it tampers with one's identity on different levels. The stronger one's identity, the less susceptible they would be to Soothers and Rioters.

 

There are specific examples in Mistborn of individuals resisting/detecting emotional allomancy through training or sheer force of will.

 

This thought originally came about surrounding the kandra and the fact that their identity was gifted to them through Hemalurgy. It is also the point where I could use some input. Kandra are noted to be immune to standard emotional allomancy, and only a duralumin burn will crack that shell to allow another mind in. This is different to when a duralumin + brass burn is used on a human, like with Straff Venture - Vin was not able to suddenly control him, just deadened him completely.

 

What you're referring to is what is known as The Flaw. Ruin deliberately built it into hemalurgy so he'd have direct control over hemalurgic creations; the "resistance" and the weakness are all part of this system which was made for the express purpose of letting Ruin control these beings.

 

Most people who "resist" emotional allomancy don't do it through force of will, they do it with intelligence. They realize their emotions are being manipulated, and so deliberately make decisions based on logic, as devoid of emotions as they can. It can be hard to focus through powerful emotions, but doesn't require "inhuman feats of will," just a rational mind.

 

Also, I think it's far more likely that "determination" is the feruchemical trait that would have the effect you mentioned on emotional allomancy. When you store determination, it's probably easier for people to influence your emotions. When you tap it, I would suspect it's harder for people to change how you feel.

 

Just one man's opinion. Keep thinking!

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What you're referring to is what is known as The Flaw. Ruin deliberately built it into hemalurgy so he'd have direct control over hemalurgic creations; the "resistance" and the weakness are all part of this system which was made for the express purpose of letting Ruin control these beings.

 

Umm... Ruin didn't deliberately build anything into hemalurgy. Neither Ruin or Preservation actively "designed" the metallic arts.  Magic systems come into existance when a Shard invests in a world but they are based on the interactions of the shards invested in the shardworld and the shardworld itself.  Shards have the ability to fudge with the rules, but only to alter what already exists (as Preservation did with the external temporals and the mistsickness).

 

The "Flaw" that allows allomancers to control hemalurgic constructs was ostensibly Rashek's idea.  He wanted a way to control the creatures he designed while he was Ascended.  Granted Ruin was whispering in his mind at that time so it is fairly likely Ruin influenced him in that decision.  (Really, really likely.  Ruin would have also wanted a way to exert control over them)

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Umm... Ruin didn't deliberately build anything into hemalurgy. Neither Ruin or Preservation actively "designed" the metallic arts.  Magic systems come into existance when a Shard invests in a world but they are based on the interactions of the shards invested in the shardworld and the shardworld itself.  Shards have the ability to fudge with the rules, but only to alter what already exists (as Preservation did with the external temporals and the mistsickness).

 

The "Flaw" that allows allomancers to control hemalurgic constructs was ostensibly Rashek's idea.  He wanted a way to control the creatures he designed while he was Ascended.  Granted Ruin was whispering in his mind at that time so it is fairly likely Ruin influenced him in that decision.  (Really, really likely.  Ruin would have also wanted a way to exert control over them)

 

I would need some WoB to believe this.  I believe The Flaw is what allows Ruin to corrupt people, afterall, so I definitely do not think it's a machination of TLR.

 

 "Deliberate" is a strong word, however.  I believe The Flaw comes about because Ruin is... ruinous, and that's what effect his magic system would have.  But intentional or not is kinda semantical.  The point is: there is a flaw.  Like a boat with a leak, it doesn't matter if Ruin put it there or if Ruin made the leak because he was wearing some wicked golf cleats.  The OP still gives a pretty good analysis of what exactly is leaking, be it a broken seal or hole in the hull.

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I'm pretty sure I read it in the Annotations.  Unfortunately there isn't a good way to search them at this time.  I don't know when I'll be able to reread them so I can find it.  (Though I'm probably due for a reread soon anyway.)

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Umm... Ruin didn't deliberately build anything into hemalurgy. Neither Ruin or Preservation actively "designed" the metallic arts.  Magic systems come into existance when a Shard invests in a world but they are based on the interactions of the shards invested in the shardworld and the shardworld itself.  Shards have the ability to fudge with the rules, but only to alter what already exists (as Preservation did with the external temporals and the mistsickness).

 

The "Flaw" that allows allomancers to control hemalurgic constructs was ostensibly Rashek's idea.  He wanted a way to control the creatures he designed while he was Ascended.  Granted Ruin was whispering in his mind at that time so it is fairly likely Ruin influenced him in that decision.  (Really, really likely.  Ruin would have also wanted a way to exert control over them)

 

When I was designing the Three Metallurgic Arts for these books, I knew that I wanted Hemalurgy to have a built in flaw. A flaw that, as a deconstructionalist might say, was created intentionally and relied upon by the very force hoping it won’t exploit it.

It was important to me that Ruin eventually be brought down, in part, because of things he did or flaws in his power. Preservation could simply build into the humans he created an innate goodness, then expect them to do as he hoped that they would. Ruin had to be able to directly corrupt and influence people. He felt himself stronger because he could MAKE them do exactly as he wanted.

The problem is, for his magic to work–for him to exercise control over someone–he had to leave a hole, so to speak, that other people could wiggle through and use. And so the entire ‘control the koloss’ plot sequence in Book Two was intended to set up Hemalurgy, and in a way predict Ruin’s fall.

Now, the only problem in all of this (for the heroes, at least) is that when Ruin actually got free, he was so strong that it was all but impossible for anyone else to ‘get through’ the holes that he had left in his Hemalurgists. But it wasn’t impossible. In a way, the foreshadowing in this book was meant to lay the seed that Ruin’s control of his minions is not absolute. And an individual who wanted to resist him had that potential.

that is fropm annotaiton mistborn 2 chapter 54
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 that is fropm annotaiton mistborn 2 chapter 54

 

(sic)

 

Thank you, Aztec.

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Yes, thank you.  It seems I was misremembering it.  (Although I thought the thing about the Lord Ruler putting the Flaw in was in the HoA annotations)

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