The Art of Game Creation

[Kasimir]

15 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Absolutely everyone is a Smoker.

Spoiler

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Kasimir

[Turtle]

On 11/28/2022 at 7:45 AM, Kasimir said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

blackout game where it’s actually oops all mistborn but you’re told it’s all smokers

idk if that’s blackout or just a bastard game

[Mat]

27 minutes ago, ookla the POKE VOTE said:

blackout game where it’s actually oops all mistborn but you’re told it’s all smokers

idk if that’s blackout or just a bastard game

I once ran a blackout game where all the villagers were Thugs with a one-shot kill and all the elims had a % chance of surviving every kill :P.

[The Unknown Ajah]

42 minutes ago, Ookla the Tall said:

I once ran a blackout game where all the villagers were Thugs with a one-shot kill and all the elims had a % chance of surviving every kill :P.

I remember that game. Or at least, I remember Kas going crazy during that game. Don't actually remember playing though.

Edit: Apparently I didn't. But Kas definitely still went insane. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Ookla the Unknown

[Turtle]

10 minutes ago, Ookla the Tall said:

I once ran a blackout game where all the villagers were Thugs with a one-shot kill and all the elims had a % chance of surviving every kill :P.

somebody who actually plays in mashes (*cough*illwei*cough*) correct me if i’m wrong but isn’t this literally just MU ITA shots in mashes? i’m gonna check this

edit: yeah ITA is vig shots with a 15% chance of accuracy i think

but like in a 50 player game so

Edited November 29, 2022 by ookla the POKE VOTE

[Szeth_Pancakes]

3 hours ago, Ookla the Tall said:

I once ran a blackout game where all the villagers were Thugs with a one-shot kill and all the elims had a % chance of surviving every kill :P.

I think I remember that one

[Kasimir]

5 hours ago, ookla the POKE VOTE said:

blackout game where it’s actually oops all mistborn but you’re told it’s all smokers

We had a normal game that was all Mistborn. It's called AG6. I set a new pinch-hitting record by getting vigkilled less than twelve hours after I subbed in.

4 hours ago, Ookla the Unknown said:

I remember that game. Or at least, I remember Kas going crazy during that game. Don't actually remember playing though.

Edit: Apparently I didn't. But Kas definitely still went insane. 

Nope, that was MR56. This one was more me half-heartedly trying to solve because I had exams, and Szeth continuing to tunnel on me even after I flipped Village >>

You know it was bad when I was actively considering E!Szeth at endgame even though Szeth had pasted his GM PM in thread.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Kasimir

[Szeth_Pancakes]

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Nope, that was MR56. This one was more me half-heartedly trying to solve because I had exams, and Szeth continuing to tunnel on me even after I flipped Village >>

You know it was bad when I was actively considering E!Szeth at endgame even though Szeth had pasted his GM PM in thread.

No memory of this. I did what??

[Kasimir]

Just now, Ookla the Omniscient said:

No memory of this. I did what??

1. You slipped up and pasted your GM PM in the thread. All Villagers who saw it, me included, immediately knew you were Village because we had the exact same role. Only Sart saw it on the Elim side. The fact Araris still had me questioning if you were Evil during lylo says a lot >>

2. You spent basically the whole game and lylo paranoiding/tunnelling on me. Which is fair as I was very out of it, drunk, preparing for exams, and playing very badly, but bro you insisted I was Evil even after I flipped Village .__.

[Ashbringer]

I went insane in MR56 

[Szeth_Pancakes]

9 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

1. You slipped up and pasted your GM PM in the thread. All Villagers who saw it, me included, immediately knew you were Village because we had the exact same role. Only Sart saw it on the Elim side. The fact Araris still had me questioning if you were Evil during lylo says a lot >>

2. You spent basically the whole game and lylo paranoiding/tunnelling on me. Which is fair as I was very out of it, drunk, preparing for exams, and playing very badly, but bro you insisted I was Evil even after I flipped Village .__.

I can't find it

What number is it?

[Kasimir]

Just now, Ookla the Omniscient said:

I can't find it

What number is it?

LG82!

 

[Szeth_Pancakes]

Thanks. Gave me a good laugh

[Kasimir]

35 minutes ago, Ookla the Omniscient said:

Thanks. Gave me a good laugh

It gives me a good laugh too...now  

[---]

4

This would be taking the spot of my current LG anon/blackout spot probably.

There's not really much here that i could put until i get the flavor more fleshed out, because....well....blackout....

Quote

LG##: Working Title 4 [Ghostblood edition?]

BASICS
Cycles will be 72 hours, split into 48 hour day turns and 24 hour night turns. 
PMs are closed unless otherwise instructed
You may not talk about your Real Identity*

FACTIONS
Eliminator
They have access to a factional kill each cycle and a google doc to communicate. They win when they outnumber the Village.

Villager
They win when all members of the Eliminators have been eliminated.

SIGN UP: 
To sign up, you must send a PM to the GM with character info to get a role. You may include as much or as little about the character you send, but remember, it will factor into what your role is. 
If you include NO character in your PM, your sign up will not be accepted. 

ROLES
In this game your roles will be chosen based off of a character that you send when you sign up. It may be an original character or someone who exists already. 
 

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Ooklil' the Wei

[Kasimir]

I've a question here I asked in the LG91 dead doc then realised it is better posed in the thread to get more help with it. I don't know if it is a meta issue but I believe it to be more about game design and GMing, and as such, favour asking it here.

I've been thinking about the role of RNG and player agency, and GM fairness. Several points:

• I remember running MR43 which was billed as a game in which RNG was a core mechanic - it determined how effective player searches for abilities and items were. When you select RNG as a mechanic, you are committed to accepting troll results if RNGesus is in a troll mood. Presumably, players who sign up to the game accept that caveat. Is there acceptable room for GM discretion, even so? My view is that it was a bit of a thumb on the scales to prevent RNGesus from giving everyone except Drake and Burnt (I think?) kill items that cycle. But it was also necessary - my game simply would not have functioned otherwise, so I discarded that rand and went with another one.
   
• Something Wiz and I talked about in the dead doc when trying to finesse MR1's Nightwatcher mechanic. I think there's a great temptation to solve problems by RNG in these games, and I increasingly feel like I'd prefer to find ways around it. I think it's easy, but RNG also takes away player agency, because then player decisions have nothing to do with the result: it's just up to the whims of RNGesus. I am not fully satisfied with the form the dueling mechanic took in my recent MR, but the thing I did like about results submissions was that dueling players could choose to play mindgames if they really wanted to. To some extent, the final results are a reflection of their inputs, rather than a coinflip, which gives them a bit more agency.
   
• Back to the problem at hand: the MR1 Nightwatcher mechanic, which granted requests and cursed players at the same time. We know now in retrospect that there were a few key rules: amusing/troll requests were more likely to be answered, and if your request was framed in well-written RP, it would be very likely to be granted. Is this a fair basis on which to distribute in-game abilities? Part of me thinks that you could argue that yes, it is: it's a matter of letting players put in the effort or not, even if they don't like RP. Part of me also thinks you could argue that it would be fair if everyone knew beforehand that this gets you successful requests. That being said, the counterpoints: a rule being publicised may be necessary but insufficient to make it fair, and this places RP players at an advantage. This also means that the selection criteria becomes extremely subjective. Certainly, it's the same GM making the decisions so there is some semblance of consistency but you are undeniably dependent on how the GM's judgement works, which is itself rather a black box.

So, here's the design question. Suppose we took the MR1 Nightwatcher mechanic and kept it. Players spend an action making requests to receive boons. If the boons (game-applicable abilities) are granted, they are also cursed, and the GM decides the curse. This is consistent with what happened in MR1 so far.

Suppose players know that submitting a good RP request is advantageous, and the GM commits to spelling out some of the criteria for what is considered 'good' or 'amusing.' Is this enough to balance things? What if we restricted the abilities the Nightwatcher can give out to say, a single-use Lurch? 

I'll be upfront that this feels to me like a case where it has to be RNG, but I'm curious if there's a way to build more player agency into this.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Kasimir

[The Wandering Wizard]

On 12/9/2022 at 10:29 AM, Kasimir said:

I think it's easy, but RNG also takes away player agency, because then player decisions have nothing to do with the result: it's just up to the whims of RNGesus

I have been thinking on this and I think I have a possible solution, not perfect but a solution. I think RNG is something that is going to have to be part of certain things, but the GM could also have a hidden factor that can increase or decrease how likely it is to succeed. Like successive turns of seeking something is less likely to yield the wanted result if it was already given. Something around the 5-10% range or maybe more. It would depend on GM discression and a unchangeable stead fast rule that was set in place before the game began. And probably run it past the IM to try to maintain impartiality, because it is a hard case in which to remain impartial but also allow the players to influence their success to a certain degree. I think that it would have to be a set increase by a certain amount if they fulfill the specific hidden case that will increase or decrease their chances. Say a set 10%. So using the nightwatcher example, no one knows that if you RP over 275 words for the nightwatcher boon then you get a set increase of 10%. And no one would know that if you only RP 100 or less that it decreases your chances by 10%. It's by no means a perfect solution but it's a melding of the two even if it is more dependent on RNG than player input. 

Edit: It would also be good to judge the threshold of how powerful the boon would be to the player and accordingly fit it in one percentage category set up before.

For example, a category one, two, and three for how powerful the boon would be.

Just throwing out some numbers. Have category one around 80% and it would be up to the GM. But I'd place this around rather weak boons for the village, like action scanning, but can't scan the kill. Perhaps something else, but I can't think of more right now. Or a one shot semi usefull power.

Category two probably round 45% and with things like a extra life, vote manip and the like.

Category three probably round 10-15% and having a vig kill, allignment scanner. Possibly unblockable, but extremely heavy banes.

Well everything would have heavy banes, just heavier than for some of the "weaker" tiers.

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Ookla the Myopic

[---]

I would like to sign up for a BT spot but i'm putting iti in here for minimal feedback first

 - Araris' modified tyrian ruleset (for base rules)
 - Cycle length starts at 48hr nightless, -4 hours each time someone dies
 - 10 players total.

 

[The Wandering Wizard]

So I have an idea for a partial blackout/blackout and maybe flipless that has been running through my head. A knight radiant game where everyone gets two different orders as choices. No one starts evil, but if they bond with a corrupted spren then they are evil. 

So there would be a Night zero in which there is no kill but players are given a choice between two different knight radiant orders. They are not told what the orders can do. They just have to choose between the two. This segways a bit into another mechanic in which each person starts at a level one oath and can progress to higher oaths by saying the words. Or in other words, taking a free night action to possibly reach a higher oath. Certain percentages for those, haven't quite finalized those yet. 

But anyways, players choose one and if they don't, they get one of the orders randomly. This would allow players to choose which fog blinded path they want to take. And make it so that I can ensure that the game is still balanced. 

Also toying with allowing players to choose their own knight radiant cosmetic order in which they can send in fake words to be put in the writeup. Still thinking on that one.

[Mat]

That would probably need to be more of a faction game rather than a tradition village/elims, with things set in place in the case of a crazy skew one direction. Steel ran a game very similar to this, actually, an anon choose-your-own-faction game, so I’d recommend reading the rules of that to maybe get some ideas. I want to say it was LG79? Idk exactly.

For all I know you played it  I don’t remember if it was before your time.

Edit: Steel did run LG79, but it was a choose your own role, not alignment. The game I was thinking of was LG87, which isn’t anon (though 79 is)

Edit 2: And you did play that game, so never mind entirely xD

Edited January 24, 2023 by Matrim's Dice

[The Wandering Wizard]

3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

For all I know you played it  I don’t remember if it was before your time.

 

I spammed the broken protect on you remember, keeping you alive was my wincon  

3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

That would probably need to be more of a faction game rather than a tradition village/elims, with things set in place in the case of a crazy skew one direction. Steel ran a game very similar to this, actually, an anon choose-your-own-faction game, so I’d recommend reading the rules of that to maybe get some ideas. I want to say it was LG79? Idk exactly.

Well it would just be two factions, and player's don't get to know which faction they choose by choosing the order. That would be determined by me. Say you got the orders of Skybreakers and Windrunners. You would choose one of the two, not knowing if you would be village, because you could have bonded a corrupted spren. But you wouldn't know until the night was over and I decided the distribution. 

[Mat]

36 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

I spammed the broken protect on you remember, keeping you alive was my wincon  

Well it would just be two factions, and player's don't get to know which faction they choose by choosing the order. That would be determined by me. Say you got the orders of Skybreakers and Windrunners. You would choose one of the two, not knowing if you would be village, because you could have bonded a corrupted spren. But you wouldn't know until the night was over and I decided the distribution. 

Clearly not

I guess, my question would be, does everyone get the alignment they choose? Cause if everyone but one person chooses Windrunner that’d be interesting.

[The Wandering Wizard]

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I guess, my question would be, does everyone get the alignment they choose? Cause if everyone but one person chooses Windrunner that’d be interesting.

No roles have an assigned allignment. Skybreaker can be corrupted or not. The player will NOT know if their order is corrupted until after all have been chosen.

Skybreakers aren't necessarily evil. A Corrupted Skybreaker is an evil role. A Radiant Skybreaker is a village role.

But you won't know if you are Radiant or Corrupted until after N0. After the rollover you'd get a message telling you the order that you selected and if you are Corrupted or Radiant.

And Corrupted would also get a link to the doc since they are the evil faction. With the Radiants being the village faction.

[Mat]

2 hours ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

No roles have an assigned allignment. Skybreaker can be corrupted or not. The player will NOT know if their order is corrupted until after all have been chosen.

Skybreakers aren't necessarily evil. A Corrupted Skybreaker is an evil role. A Radiant Skybreaker is a village role.

But you won't know if you are Radiant or Corrupted until after N0. After the rollover you'd get a message telling you the order that you selected and if you are Corrupted or Radiant.

And Corrupted would also get a link to the doc since they are the evil faction. With the Radiants being the village faction.

I think I understand now  I guess the same thing still applies on a lesser scale, depending on what the roles do. But that’s easier to figure out than if they were alignments.

[The Wandering Wizard]

5 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I think I understand now  I guess the same thing still applies on a lesser scale, depending on what the roles do. But that’s easier to figure out than if they were alignments.

Glad I was able to explain it. Now to actually figure out all the oath level powers and the different orders.