Metacognition

The Art of Game Creation

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Just now, The Unknown Order said:

I couldn't find a list of the SE mods in the Signups thread. I also wanted any opinions on the ruleset, and the Signups thread mentioned asking for approval here, so I saved redundancy and did everything here.

Mods are Araris/Devo/Elan/El/wilson. Pretty sure that’s it.

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Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

Mods are Araris/Devo/Elan/El/wilson. Pretty sure that’s it.

Thanks.

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On 10/29/2021 at 11:57 PM, The Unknown Order said:

I'm around seventh on the list for MRs and I'm planning on doing this game.

Comments from anyone would be nice, but I'll @ the committee for approval:

@Amanuensis@STINK@Sart@Fifth Scholar@Straw@Haelbarde@Young Bard@Araris Valerian@Devotary of Spontaneity@Elandera @Elbereth@little wilson

Here's a non-doc form of the rules as well.

  Reveal hidden contents

To Kill a Skyeel:

Basics:

  Reveal hidden contents

There will be a group execution every day. The chosen player will be removed from the meeting and the game.

More than 50% of the players must vote in order for the execution to succeed. 

Ties will result in no one being removed. 

There will be a 48 hour day turn and a 24 hour night turn. A cycle will consist of a day and a night turn.

Every even night, skyeels will target a random player. Anyone who visits that player will be killed unless they have the field exterminator role, in which case nobody dies.

If you do not vote during the day and make less than five (will adjust for player count) posts, you will be removed. 

During the night, PMs are open, however talking in-thread is not allowed.

During the day, PMs and the Elim doc are closed, but posting is allowed.
 

Factions:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The Exterminators: The village faction for this game. They must eject all Environmentalists from the meeting before they reach majority and eradicate the guild.

The Environmentalists: The elim faction for this game. They must reach majority in order to democratically eliminate the guild. They will have access to a group doc every night and a factional kill, which is flavored as silencing a target

 

Roles:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Former Detective: You can dig up dirt on anyone in the meeting, allowing you to remove them. You can pick a player every night, and they will be removed the next night.

Skyeel Enthusiast: You love skyeels so much that you keep them as pets, but you're willing to let go of them to save the lives of their species. Once per game, you can pick a player, and anyone who visits them will be killed until a field exterminator visits.

Humane Skyeel Capturer: If you go to the house the skyeels attack, nobody will die, but there will be a 25% chance of the skyeels returning the next night.

Politician: You have strong ties with the Exterminators guild, so you've been allowed in. You also hold a lot of sway with the members of the guild. Your vote counts for double, but you can choose to change a person's vote, if you do, your vote will not be doubled.

Field Exterminator: You are just an exterminator who's made it through the ranks to get into this meeting, but luckily you know how to exterminate skyeels. If you visit the house that the skyeels attack, nobody will die. 20% of players rounded up will be Field Exterminators.

Apprentice Exterminator: You aren't allowed to exterminate skyeels yet, but you can protect a person from their attacks. Protect a person from dying to a skyeel attack.

 

 

 

Feedback:

  • 48/24 is not standard for a MR. 24/24 or 48 are the standard time formats. I guess 48/24 could maybe work, given the rule about no night cycle discussion? I'm not sure.
  • 5 posts per cycle and a voting requirement is quite excessive for an activity filter.
  • The elims only having access to their doc during the night could hurt them a lot, since it means that they can't coordinate their voting during the day.
  • Why should non-elim exterminators target anyone? The skyeel attacks seem much more likely to hurt the elims. On that note, why should the apprentice exterminator target anyone? Targeting someone opens them up to being attacked by a skyeel.
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5 minutes ago, Straw said:

Feedback:

  • 48/24 is not standard for a MR. 24/24 or 48 are the standard time formats. I guess 48/24 could maybe work, given the rule about no night cycle discussion? I'm not sure.
  • 5 posts per cycle and a voting requirement is quite excessive for an activity filter.
  • The elims only having access to their doc during the night could hurt them a lot, since it means that they can't coordinate their voting during the day.
  • Why should non-elim exterminators target anyone? The skyeel attacks seem much more likely to hurt the elims. On that note, why should the apprentice exterminator target anyone? Targeting someone opens them up to being attacked by a skyeel.

Thanks for the feedback first of all.

My thought process on that is that my first idea was 24/12, but twelve is too small. So then 24/24, right, well, that's essentially 24 hours of discussion, and another 24 hours of almost pure down time. And 36/24 doesn't work  because AM/PM switches every turn. So 48/24. If you think 24/24 would work better, I'm fine with that.

That's bad wording on my part. It's either a vote, or if you don't feel good about a vote, five posts. That's a easily switchable number, and now that I think about it, three might be better.

I would like to see how the current LG goes before I change that, but the only reason it's there is because the flavor is that every day everyone goes to a meeting to determine the Exterminator's guild's fate. I could also do the first and last 12 hours of the day are open doc but the middle 24 hours is closed.

First of all, most people hate being vanilla, so I doubt they would just do nothing, second of all, there are two guaranteed elim roles, one of them can't die to skyeels, and the other can only use their ability once per game, so that's one potential elim death every round plus an once per game chance. There is one guaranteed village role and unless I do some weird stuff with distro, all but one or two other players will be elim, with the rest being village. So more villagers can actually die to skyeels than elims. So extermianting is actually more beneficial for the village. 

That's a good question. Maybe they should have immunity to skyeels? No, an extra life to skyeels. 

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48/24 is indeed the usual cycle length. 48 hour long days and 24 hour long nights.

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48 hour combined seems to be the standard. I think with silent night 48/24 is good.

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It depends on the format being run. LGs are 48/24, MRs are usually 48, but sometimes 24/24 I think, and QFs are just 24.

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On 18/11/2021 at 2:37 AM, Araris Valerian said:

It depends on the format being run. LGs are 48/24, MRs are usually 48, but sometimes 24/24 I think, and QFs are just 24.

Noted.

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4 hours ago, Ookla of Anarchy and Chaos said:

@Ookla of Anarchy and Chaos

I'm replying here instead of the GM thread because this is normally where we put game ideas ^^

 - What are the ghostblood's wincons? if revealed?
 - Can we get full definitions for all the actions that aren't defined? (Silenced, Houses, Decieve)
 - what exactly does lightweaver squire do? what does "Investigates one person for another person" mean?
 - Can the highprince ever submit the kill? if not it seems like a role no one would want to roll lol
 - Are you hoping for all roles to be in the game (specifically ghostblood roles?) Because that seems like an awful lot of neutrals.
    -> what are the rules for how the roles will appear, because with everyone having either a confirmed village role or confirmed elim role D1 the game is easily, easily broken via massclaiming.
 - How often can actions be used
 - it's clarified that the messenger gets a will. why is this specifically clarified?
 - how are ties decided?
 - what are the minimum votes needed?
 - "f someone comes to kill the current inhabitant of that house, or mess with the house," this needs elaboration- on what a house with and what consitutes "messing" with the house.

I would say you'd probably want to get a cogm if you ran this, especially because of the Sunday issue.

Spoiler

ELIM

Assassin
 - Vanilla
Shardbearer
 - Carries the kill while alive
 - Cannot be Nightkilled 
 - Appears as Village to alignment scan
Highprince
 - ??? (what is decieve)
 - Can't submit nightkill
§  If there are too few players, the Highprince may be a Ghostblood role.

VILLAGE: (actions can be used every cycle? or once?)
Bondsmith
 - Each cycle can create two PMs.
 - Can use a PM creation action to add someone to a PM
Edgedancer
 
- Each Cycle can heal one person from the Nightkill
 - Doesn't work on the Skybreaker, Stoneward, or Messenger.
Edgedancer Squire
 - Can attempt to heal one person each cycle from the Nightkill
 - Action only goes through after the Edgedancer targets them. Isn't told if/when that happens.
Lightweaver
 - Switches two players roles. Their alignment stays the same. (is this available every cycle? or just once?)
Lightweaver Squire
 - Investigates one person for another person (??? what does this mean??)
 - Alignment scan
Skybreaker
 - If there is no exile, they may lock a player up. Locked player is immune to all targeted actions other than by the skybreaker, the stoneward, and the Messenger.
 - May choose to Execute the person who is locked up once in a game (is this right or are they allowed to kill anyone?)
Skybreaker Squire
 
- Sees target player's action they performed (what are the possible results? will they be told target player's role if they use an action? functionally the same thing)
Stoneward
 - If Exiled, kills one of their voters. If Nightkilled, kills a killer. This kill cannot be stopped. (How do they activate? Do they choose who during the next cycle? do they choose who during the cycle? do they choose to and then it gets randomized?)
 - Doesn't get a will
 - Immune to healing
Willshaper
 - Each cycle can swap two people, switching the actions performed on them.
Windrunner
 - Protects a house. If someone tries to harm the house, the harmer and the Windrunner dies. (What are houses? Does the windrunner pick a house and keep it the entire game? do they pprotect a new one every night?)

GHOSTBLOOD
Elsecaller
 - Picks a house every cycle, Kills the first visitor.
Messenger
 - When Exiled, chooses a player who voted him to die.
 - Immune to heals.
Dustbringer
 - Each cycle can either
   1) Prepare a house for burning (also prepares own house)
   2) Undo preparations on one house
   3) Light all houses on fire
Truthwatcher
 - Silences one person each cycle (what is silencing??)
 - Cancels the Bad Spheres

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On 11/30/2021 at 1:14 AM, Ooklil' the Wei said:

I'm replying here instead of the GM thread because this is normally where we put game ideas ^^

Ait. Sorry.

I'll fix it in the doc.

 

Edit: If someone wants to volunteer for coGM that's on them. I'm not going to ask someone to do something on Sunday that I wouldn't do on Sunday.

How do I get an IM?

 

Edit2:

Ait. I think I fixed it. Could you (or someone else) look at it again?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IJDFsh_Dz0EF2lSf28D0BJE5qckBv6F3-67ZAQVvxtc/edit?usp=sharing

Edited by Ookla of Anarchy and Chaos
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On 12/1/2021 at 5:06 PM, Ookla of Anarchy and Chaos said:

How do I get an IM?

IMs are assigned when the game is up in the rotation

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I'm looking potentially to run a modified version of Ren's MR2 as an MR.

One issue we ran into when the game was being run was that sending a PM was an ability, and there was another ability to steal PMs. Docs self-destructed after the first cycle. Thing was, people defaulted to using codes instead so messages barely got used. Though Twei had a moment of awesome in which she did linguistic analysis and pinned down Tulir.

Given the current rules about codes, is it worth keeping messaging and message-stealing as an ability?

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Who's the current committee? Same as it was when SE started?
 

@Kasimir I think so. That'd be interesting.

Edited by Tani
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@Tani it's listed in the first post of this thread, and at the top of the signup sheet. (It's not the same as when SE started; it didn't exist until I think AG4? :P)

@Kasimir Probably? PM spying is always interesting. :P Although it is a massive pain for you as a GM, so. I probably wouldn't, because I've done enough of that for one lifetime :P

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3 hours ago, Elbereth said:

@Kasimir Probably? PM spying is always interesting. :P Although it is a massive pain for you as a GM, so. I probably wouldn't, because I've done enough of that for one lifetime :P

Oh yeah but IIRC you send one message. It's not a PM thread. And the message can be intercepted. So it's a pain but less of a pain. Our issue in MR2 was there was no incentive to use it, because knowing that messages could be intercepted, no one wanted to spend an action on it. Conversely, since no one was sending messages, also no incentive to use that. With the current ruling on codes though...

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1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Oh yeah but IIRC you send one message. It's not a PM thread. And the message can be intercepted. So it's a pain but less of a pain. Our issue in MR2 was there was no incentive to use it, because knowing that messages could be intercepted, no one wanted to spend an action on it. Conversely, since no one was sending messages, also no incentive to use that. With the current ruling on codes though...

Honestly, it might still not be used. I don’t know for sure, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if people choose not communicating over chance of communication being stolen - I can remember at least one past game where something akin to that happened. I’m not sure it’s particularly rational, but the avoidance of low-risk problems in this kind of context isn’t unusual. 

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@Tani you'll also need to PM the rules to the five SE moderators listed in the first post of the GM Signups & Discussion Thread.

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13 hours ago, Tani said:
Quote

@Tani you'll also need to PM the rules to the five SE moderators listed in the first post of the GM Signups & Discussion Thread.

Emphasis on PM :P You're typically supposed to send the rules to the committee and the mods in a PM and that's where they comment on it. No worries though, you could have already done that, I have no idea.

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On 1/11/2022 at 9:10 AM, Tani said:

Comments:

  • Lots of roles/mechanics for a QF game. There are three factions and 18 roles, which seems like too many for a QF.
  • Deceive seems like it's extremely hard to manage.
  • What kinds of win conditions would Ghostbloods have?
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5 hours ago, Straw said:
  • Deceive seems like it's extremely hard to manage.

Mostly it's honor system ig. I can't really stop you from breaking this rule, but it's more fun for everyone if you keep it. Also you can totally deceive by telling the truth, just not always.

Quote
  • What kinds of win conditions would Ghostbloods have?

Some roles want to survive, the Messenger wants to be exiled, some roles want the Ghostbloods to be the only ones left. You know what I'll go put that in the doc.

 

And yeah it is kinda a lot of roles and mechanics but I'm fairly sure I can do it and also we need a QF like right now-ish...

Edited by Tani
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On 1/11/2022 at 1:16 PM, Elbereth said:

Honestly, it might still not be used. I don’t know for sure, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if people choose not communicating over chance of communication being stolen - I can remember at least one past game where something akin to that happened. I’m not sure it’s particularly rational, but the avoidance of low-risk problems in this kind of context isn’t unusual. 

I remember, that's why I'm wondering if it's better to change the Lashing, as Ren suggested, because it's probably just not going to see use. Or people will go wild with codes.

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I made a Wheel of Time LG, but I'm not sure about the balance. Here's the doc if you don't want to deal with spoilers and broken formatting. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mrx-Nslg3G5WpPPOtz83V79PSAK-znQF5_LzUtTOHiA/edit?usp=drivesdk

LG### - Blood and Bloody Ashes

Housekeeping:

 

Spoiler


  • 48 hour Days and Nights

  • There will be a community execution every Day

  • It will have a two vote minimum, meaning that the highest player up for execution must have two votes in order to die

  • Ties will result in a coin flip, if the Amyrlin votes on one of them however, they will lose the coin flip/die

  • When an elim links with a villager and disagrees with the villager, it will be more likely for the villager to win

  • This will be role madness.

 

  •  

Factions:

Spoiler

 

People of the White Tower: You have discovered that the Black Ajah has not only infiltrated the White Tower but also brought a Myrdraal, and that's not counting the Forsaken that rumor says is with them. You must eliminate them from your ranks.

Servants of the Dark One: The Aes Sedai have discovered your existence and alerted their allies in the city. Maybe you shouldn't have tried to bring that Myrdraal into the Tower. And they think you have a Forsaken? Time to overturn the White Tower. You must make it impossible for the People of the White Tower to win. You also have a factional kill each Night and a doc to conspire in.

 

Ratings:

Spoiler

 

0-5 each Air, Fire, Water, and Earth

 

0 = 5% 

1 = 25% 

/\ 1

\/ 2

2 = 40%

3 = 55%

/\ 2

\/ 1

4 = 75%

5 = 95%

 

Spirit is on the same scale, but completely random.

 

Example:

Air: 3 55%

Fire: 1 25%

Water: 4 75%

Earth: 3 55%

Spirit: 2 55%

 

Complexity:

 

1 85%

2 55%

3 40%

4 25%

 

For each additional weave, the chance of failure increases by 5%, unless it has a complexity of 3+. If it does, it increases by 10%. Physical actions increase it by 2%.

 

Example Turn:

 

Trace 2 55% - 22% = 33% Success

Heal 3 40% - 17% = 23% Failure

Earthquake 3 40% - 17% = 23% Failure

Physical Action

 

 

Weaves:

\/Formatting is weird\/

Weave:

Element:

Difficulty:

Complexity

 

Trace:

Spirit

2

2

See what physical actions a player takes

Delve: 

Spirit

3

2

See what actions were used on a player of your choice 

Heal:

Air, Water, and Spirit

1, 1, 2

3

Heal a player. Any attacks against them will fail

Voice of Power:

Air and Fire

2, 2,

1

Post an anonymous message

Renew:

Air, Water, and Spirit





 

1, 1, 2,

2

Give your target player an extra action next turn that does not affect their weave limit or difficulty 

Raise Fog:

Air and Water





 

2, 1

2

Cloak yourself and another player of your choice from action detection weaves 

Light:

Air and Fire



 

1, 1

1

Pierces fog used on you or a player of your choice.

Mirror of Mists:

Air, Fire, and Spirit



 

2, 2, 2

2

Make yourself appear to take another action on a player of your choice

Earthquake:

Earth

3

3

Physical block two players other than yourself

Lightning:

Air and Fire 

One must be 4, the other 3

4

Kill a player

Shield:

Spirit





 

3

3

Weaveblock a player for two turns or until they break free or you release them

Seal/Ward Against People:

Air, Fire, and Spirit

1, 2, 2

2

Roleblock any player who takes a non-lethal action against a player of your choice. Including yourself

Fold Light/Bending:

Air and Fire

2, 2

2

Disguise a single physical action from being discovered by a weave

Circle of Silence:

Air, Fire, and Water

1, 1, 1,

1

Create a group PM

Harden Air:

Air

2

1

Physical block a player

Compulsion:

Air, Earth, Water, Fire, and Spirit

2, 1, 1, 1, 2

3

Change a player's vote to whatever you wish from whatever you wish.

 

Linking:

Spoiler

 

If two or more players state that they intend on linking with each other, they will combine to use the highest stat for each element. The complexity of each weave will also decrease by one. 

Example Link:

Player 1:

I will link with Player 2 and Player 3 in order to attempt to Create Lightning on Player 4 and to Heal myself. 

Stats:

Air: 3 

Fire: 1 

Water: 4 

Earth: 3 

Spirit: 2 

Player 2:

I will link with Player 1 and Player 3 in order to attempt to Create Lightning on Player 4.

Stats:

Air: 5

Fire: 3

Water: 1

Earth: 3

Spirit: 2

Player 3:

I will link with Player 1 and Player 2 in order to attempt to Create Lightning on Player 4 and to Mirror of Mists to make it appear I took an extra action on Player 5.

As my physical action, I will open a PM with Player 5

Stats:

Air: 2

Fire: 4

Water: 1

Earth: 3

Spirit: 5

End Stats:

Air: 5

Fire: 4

Water: 4

Earth: 3

Spirit: 5

End Actions:

Lightning on Player 4 4 - 1 for linking = 3 = 40% - 15% = 25% Failure

Heal on Player 1 3 - 1 for linking = 2 = 55% - 15% = 40%

Success

 

Physical Actions(You may take two per turn or one and at least one weave):

Roleless:

Spoiler

Create a one on one PM

Roles:

 

Spoiler


  • Aes Sedai: You will have elemental stats and can perform weaves.

  • Amyrlin Seat: Your voice can sway a crowd and your power within the tower is utmost. Or it was until these Black Ajah started running around. Change a player's vote to another player. You may change the vote from and to a no-vote.

  • Warder*: You are bonded to an Aes Sedai. If they die, there will be a fifty percent chance that you die. Every other turn, you protect them. On off turns, you protect yourself. You also have a permanent PM with them. 

  • Blademaster*: You have an extra life and can roleblock a player every turn.

  • A Shepherd from the Two Rivers*: You have a heron-marked blade that you can use to fend off attackers. You will survive one attack. You may do a weave once per game. If the weave fails, it does not count .

  • A Blacksmith from the Two Rivers*: You sensed are greater and the wolves tell you who they think are Darkfriends. Discover the alignment of two players.

  • A Horse Trader from the Two Rivers*: You have an odd knife you found in Shadar Logoth. You can kill one person per game with this knife. If you are successfully healed by two Aes Sedai on the same turn, you die.

  • Forsaken: At random, one of your weaves, or as you call them, webs, will always succeed. However, you are still imprisoned slightly, so you cannot vote. You can still vote in thread, it simply won't count.

  • Myrddraal*: You don't like to die. Stay alive for the turn after the one where you would otherwise be dead.

*cannot be an Aes Sedai

 

 
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