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The Art of Game Creation


Metacognition

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1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

TJ’s game.

I was just trying to suggest a way for Mistborn to be more player-controlled, and having Coinshots have kills, while also not turning the Mistborn into de facto Coinshots. More limited than random abilities.

Yeah that makes sense. Also I think the game I was thinking of was LG34, not LG35. Maybe. :P

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6 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Yeah that makes sense. Also I think the game I was thinking of was LG34, not LG35. Maybe. :P

Funnily enough, both LG34 and LG35 had vial mechanics.

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

I’ve always wondered if Mistborn should be ruled as if they have limited metals. ie they can use all 8 abilities, and in Vin’s case start with them all, but only have 1 use of each ability until replenished somehow (randomly getting metals at the end of the cycle, perhaps). It would also let the Coinshot have a traditional kill role without turning Vin or Zane into Coinshot spammers. But it makes more sense in a game where metals are an actual resource. (All the game’s I’ve read through give the Village “Mistborn” a random Misting ability each cycle, which just seems weird. It works as a nice handicap on Zane, though.)

The Mistborn in LG3 worked that way.

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

To Straw’s comments on my Surge ideas, I agree Transportation needs to change (probably to some redirect - I’ll think about it). I’m also not happy with Gravitation, more magic-wise than balance.

Illumination: I could extend to affecting the user and the target, or “portraying” a role instead of covering it (blade ownership or alignment) with the caveat that both you and the target appear the same way. (So an Elim could make a themself and a fellow Elim look Village, or make a real Villager and themself look Elim.) And perhaps lying about Roleblocks as well - telling the Roleblocker it went through while it actually fails? 

Tension: I didn’t want to duplicate actions, so you can’t use, say, Division twice in one turn. With that caveat I think it’s alright for a 1>2 endowment. However, whether there should be a cap on indistinct actions (ie if someone got multiple Honorblades, then got Tension boosted) I’m not really sure.

Lastly on the Dustbringer blade: I’m hoping if the Bearer got outed they would start using Abrasion, but that wouldn’t work forever, especially with Szeth’s Nightblood-boosted kill and with the Bondsmith blade possibly in the wrong hands.

I do want for the village to have some kind of kill so they can recover Blades and hunt after suspicions. But there isn’t really any solution for preventing the Elims from randomly killing the Dustbringer Honorblade Bearer N1 unless Honorblades no longer transfer on death. Perhaps a Stone Shaman could see who has Blades as of the end of the Day turn, as I’m hoping player passing Blades happens at least semi-frequently.

The role/alignment change for both of them sounds good for Illumination. I don't think the roleblock one matters all that much, but it'd probably make more sense to just tell them that it failed.

Makes sense with Tension. Maybe make it so everyone can only use actions from one blade each turn? That way they can still use actions, they just can't use division+progression or something like that.

The Stone Shamans seem like a decent way to counterbalance that. So, as of now, I think the Stone Shamans can see who has a blade (but not which one) and can confiscate blades from a player?

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Gotcha.

The problem with Stone Shamans is that if they can see who has Blades, they can narrow down Elims easily, or at least who Szeth and Kaladin are. I think they can hold Honorblades, but I doubt they would ever start with one. I’d have to decide if they could use their powers though.

Maybe Nightblood could scan as and get passed around like an Honorblade :P

 

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11 hours ago, Straw said:

For the Rioter and Soother roles, I assume the target is told they were Rioted or Soothed? If so, that seems fine, and it an interesting take on the Rioter/Soother.

Well.. not exactly what I had in my mind. So they would not be told that they were Rioted or Soothed. But if a player is Rioted, and votes for a different player next cycle, their vote moves automatically to the one they voted last cycle. Similarly, if a player is Soothed, and votes for the same player next cycle, the vote moves to a different player, possibly one chosen by the Soother. Is this bad? Should I just tell them they were Rioted or Soother?

11 hours ago, Straw said:

Atium and Duralumin don't seem particularly strong. If anything, BTW, how exactly are you handling Atium? You obviously can't be on 24/7 to update them as to who's attacking them. My suggestion for a possible Atium change would be to have them avoid all actions that targeted them, and learn which actions they would have been targeted with.

I hadn't thought of that xD. I mean, it's only one cycle, I probably could, but yeah, it would cause some problems. Avoid all actions on them seems a little too over-powered, as they already have a passive Thug Ability. My idea was that they could know what attacks they were facing, and prevent the most dangerous one. I'm planning to just give them the info of all attacks on them placed till the point they use Atium, and not update them after that. This makes them choose the optimum time to use atium during the cycle. This.. probably should have been a secret, seeing as now everyone will probably put in actions at the last moment :P OR
They burn atium anytime in the cycle. I give them all the actions on them so far. I also give them the actions placed on them as and when I see them. They have an extra 10 minutes after the rollover to put in their actions. I think I prefer this one. 

11 hours ago, Straw said:

The current chain system seems fine, but it's completely up to you. I could see either way working. The one disadvantage to pairs is that it means the elim teams have to have even numbers of players.

Yeah, I dislike it because it will make it easier of the other teams to guess the no. of teammates remaining. Also, the pairs system will result in a elim kill votes also being in clusters of two, which I dislike. Could I have A-B B-C system and still have the PMs open? Surely they'll be paranoid that villagers will pull the "Hey I'm an elim, and I know you're an elim" move, so they'll likely distrust any alignment-claim, but I'm not sure. 

11 hours ago, Straw said:

Cett is fine depending on role distribution and numbers, but you could always give them a Mistborn or some other unique role. 

Planning on a hazekiller role who is immune to all types of allomancy, and can protect one player from all types of allomancy OR A Mistborn who does not have atium and/or duralumin, like Ash suggested. Which one is better? 

11 hours ago, Straw said:

For the eliminator factions, you could probably change it to having a majority over the other two factions combined. If Cett or Straff manages that, they'd have control of the lynch and would very likely win.

Hmm, I was thinking they couldn't completely control the lynch because they wouldn't know their teammates, but I suppose they would have deduced their teammates by then. Unsure about this one. 

11 hours ago, Straw said:

How exactly does Pewter work? Is it one kill/lynch for the whole game, or one per cycle? If it's the latter, I'd recommend changing it.

Yes, it's for the whole game, but I'm kinda rethinking the Thug role. With 2 (possibly 3?) Mistborn in the game, that's already 3 double lives. I'm not sure of the implications of any more double lives, probably the game will be too long? Is it fine?

11 hours ago, Straw said:

What facts can a Terrisman learn?

Basically the Archivist role from Striker's game. Target scan, inverse target scan, role scan. Not alignment scan though. 

9 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Okay, basically, the plan'd be for the elims to each vote for themselves C1. Then, if the vote count was revealed, they'd all know they're teammates.

Well, for that, first of all, everyone should think like you. :P Secondly, as the vote is a huge 1-1-1-1-1-1 (for example) tie, and everyone is an elim, no one would die, and the result of the vote will not be revealed. 

8 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

I’ve always wondered if Mistborn should be ruled as if they have limited metals. ie they can use all 8 abilities, and in Vin’s case start with them all, but only have 1 use of each ability until replenished somehow (randomly getting metals at the end of the cycle, perhaps). It would also let the Coinshot have a traditional kill role without turning Vin or Zane into Coinshot spammers. But it makes more sense in a game where metals are an actual resource. (All the game’s I’ve read through give the Village “Mistborn” a random Misting ability each cycle, which just seems weird. It works as a nice handicap on Zane, though.)

Planning on making Vin unable to burn the same metal in two consecutive cycles. How about that? 
I think I was going through a game a while back. It had Metallurgists who could make different flakes of metal and send them to whoever they want. Not sure of the number, or the format of the game. Maybe Straw knows. 

Question. If the Seeker targets a Mistborn during the Cycle they burn atium/duralumin, do they see both the metals burn, or one at random, or just the basic allomantic metal? I'm leaning towards both.

Thanks for all your feedback. :) I'll go edit the questions in the original post to which I have answers. 

Edited by TJ Shade
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7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Well.. not exactly what I had in my mind. So they would not be told that they were Rioted or Soothed. But if a player is Rioted, and votes for a different player next cycle, their vote moves automatically to the one they voted last cycle. Similarly, if a player is Soothed, and votes for the same player next cycle, the vote moves to a different player, possibly one chosen by the Soother. Is this bad? Should I just tell them they were Rioted or Soother?

Mm, it's fine either way. Maybe just have Soother cancel their vote instead of moving it to make it a bit more in line with the power level of the Rioter.

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

I hadn't thought of that xD. I mean, it's only one cycle, I probably could, but yeah, it would cause some problems. Avoid all actions on them seems a little too over-powered, as they already have a passive Thug Ability. My idea was that they could know what attacks they were facing, and prevent the most dangerous one. I'm planning to just give them the info of all attacks on them placed till the point they use Atium, and not update them after that. This makes them choose the optimum time to use atium during the cycle. This.. probably should have been a secret, seeing as now everyone will probably put in actions at the last moment :P OR
They burn atium anytime in the cycle. I give them all the actions on them so far. I also give them the actions placed on them as and when I see them. They have an extra 10 minutes after the rollover to put in their actions. I think I prefer this one. 

So, the Mistborn always have Pewter? I thought that they only had their extra life when they burned Pewter during a certain cycle. In that case, ignore the avoid all actions bit, yeah. Preventing one attack does seem fine. I'd strongly suggest against making abilities time based if at all possible, considering how people have very different time zones and the GM can't be around all the time. There's also the fact that live action updates like you're talking about would allow people to narrow action takers down based on time zones. At the very least, let them queue their actions so they don't actually have to be around at that time, or set certain points where you'll take their action.

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Yeah, I dislike it because it will make it easier of the other teams to guess the no. of teammates remaining. Also, the pairs system will result in a elim kill votes also being in clusters of two, which I dislike. Could I have A-B B-C system and still have the PMs open? Surely they'll be paranoid that villagers will pull the "Hey I'm an elim, and I know you're an elim" move, so they'll likely distrust any alignment-claim, but I'm not sure. 

If PMs were open, and I was an elim, here's the strategy I'd use:

Immediately PM the person whose name I know, tell them to PM the person ahead of them with a list of my name and their name with instructions to add their name to it and pass it on. This means that if I'm legitimate, the list will eventually loop back to me, and I'll just PM the finished list ahead, and they can confirm the validity of the list by checking to make sure that their partner is the person after them. This should allow the elim team to quickly and easily figure out who all of their members are.

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Planning on a hazekiller role who is immune to all types of allomancy, and can protect one player from all types of allomancy OR A Mistborn who does not have atium and/or duralumin, like Ash suggested. Which one is better? 

The second idea sounds more interesting, since it's more of a parallel to Vin/Zane.

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Hmm, I was thinking they couldn't completely control the lynch because they wouldn't know their teammates, but I suppose they would have deduced their teammates by then. Unsure about this one. 

I feel like once they have a certain majority, they'll just all post in the thread with the name of the person ahead of them.

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Yes, it's for the whole game, but I'm kinda rethinking the Thug role. With 2 (possibly 3?) Mistborn in the game, that's already 3 double lives. I'm not sure of the implications of any more double lives, probably the game will be too long? Is it fine?

It's probably fine. Given the number of kills flying around, it'd probably extend the game by around one cycle.

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Basically the Archivist role from Striker's game. Target scan, inverse target scan, role scan. Not alignment scan though. 

For the role scan, you'd probably want to make it so it could only return the basic allomantic roles, and couldn't tell if someone was Zane, Vin, or a Terrisman. I'd also suggest making the Terrisman a neutral role instead of confirmed village, since there isn't really much of a mechanical reason for it to be village only.

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Well, for that, first of all, everyone should think like you. :P Secondly, as the vote is a huge 1-1-1-1-1-1 (for example) tie, and everyone is an elim, no one would die, and the result of the vote will not be revealed. 

Hmm, wouldn't it make more sense to have it kill a random person outside the faction in that instance? I think the best way to resolve the votes would be to cancel all votes on people from the killing faction, which would mean that it would be a tie between all people who weren't in the faction.

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Planning on making Vin unable to burn the same metal in two consecutive cycles. How about that? 
I think I was going through a game a while back. It had Metallurgists who could make different flakes of metal and send them to whoever they want. Not sure of the number, or the format of the game. Maybe Straw knows. 

That sounds fine.

That would be LG34:

Quote

Metallurgist: Each Night, you are able to obtain vials of a randomly determined amount of metals. Any player may order a vial of these metals via their GM PM, and you are given a list of who ordered your metals at the end of each Night Turn. Once per game, you may adulterate one vial of metals given to any player. A player that burns that vial is killed and their action is cancelled, unless they are protected by non-adulterated Pewter.

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Question. If the Seeker targets a Mistborn during the Cycle they burn atium/duralumin, do they see both the metals burn, or one at random, or just the basic allomantic metal? I'm leaning towards both.

It's probably fine to let them see that they were burning both metals. Since factions don't know who their Mistborn is, they probably wouldn't go after that person right away due to the risk. It'd also make a nice counterbalance, since if a faction's Mistborn dies, they know to attack any Mistborn they find.

14 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Gotcha.

The problem with Stone Shamans is that if they can see who has Blades, they can narrow down Elims easily, or at least who Szeth and Kaladin are. I think they can hold Honorblades, but I doubt they would ever start with one. I’d have to decide if they could use their powers though.

Maybe Nightblood could scan as and get passed around like an Honorblade :P

Yeah, for the Stone Shamans, you could give them the ability to scan a player and see what blades they have, or maybe the ability to track each blade once and see who owns it. With Nightblood, probably just have it always stay within the eliminator faction. That way, while Szeth or Kaladin are alive, they can use it.

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So, cancel Soothed votes. PMs are off. Change the elims wincon. Atium mechanics is a bit clunky. Thugs are fine. Have a Cett Mistborn without Atium, Duralumin, or both (I won't tell which though, since a Seeker could eliminate Cett Mistborn if they find someone burning 2 metals). 

1 hour ago, Straw said:

I'd also suggest making the Terrisman a neutral role instead of confirmed village, since there isn't really much of a mechanical reason for it to be village only.

Yeah, that was only for canon reasons, keeping Sazed and Tindwyl in mind. I'll make it a normal role. Perfect, thanks!

Edit: Added in Gneorndin Cett as the Cett Mistborn in the original post. 

Edited by TJ Shade
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Okay, I have an idea for Honorblades to at least prevent the Elims from killing the Dustbringer (Honorblade Bearer) and stealing the blade undetected.

A Bearer can chose a player to Will their blade to in case of a lynch. If that Bearer is lynched, the blade goes to the Willed individual [either “their Blade was Willed to (Player)!” or “their Blade was Willed to someone!”]. If there was no Will, or the Will was made invalid (perhaps the Stone Shaman, or just having a dead recipient), then the Blade would go to someone else [either the Stone Shaman or a random player].

If a Bearer is killed, the killer can then claim the Blade the next day turn. Claiming is a choice: take the blade, or let it “return to the Shin High Council” and go to a random other player

The Stone Shaman then gets a message at the end of each day turn of who has Honorblades, and how many, but not what kind. So an Elim who earned an Honorblade from a kill could either keep the blade and fall under suspicion by the Shaman, or let it go to a random individual who may take that suspicion.

I’m also wondering if the Stone Shaman should have any further abilities besides the ownership report and stealing a Blade at night. I’m thinking maybe recover unWilled/unClaimed blades instead of having them go to a random individual, but with the caveat that the Shaman can’t use the Blade’s powers at all, just hold and shuttle them for the Village.

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Got some (more) questions:

  • Should I include malatium only for Vin? It would be once per game and it would give out the entire history of actions of the target. Too OP?
  • Mechanics for Atium + Duralumin? Avoid all attacks on you for the cycle? Seems OP on top of the Thug ability. Would give them 2 lives. Just disable it? 
  • Mechanics for Thug + Duralumin? Retaliatory kill along with protection? 2 lives for the cycle? 
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9 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

Got some (more) questions:

  • Should I include malatium only for Vin? It would be once per game and it would give out the entire history of actions of the target. Too OP?
  • Mechanics for Atium + Duralumin? Avoid all attacks on you for the cycle? Seems OP on top of the Thug ability. Would give them 2 lives. Just disable it? 
  • Mechanics for Thug + Duralumin? Retaliatory kill along with protection? 2 lives for the cycle? 

I don't see why you'd include Malatium. It just seems like unnecessary complexity. Vin seems strong enough already.

Aren't you not able to use Atium and Duralumin at the same time? I had assumed that a Mistborn had two action slots (one for the basic eight, and one for Atium/Duralumin).

So wait, how exactly are you making Pewter work? Do you have to burn it to get the extra life, or is it a passive? If it's the first, just make it so your extra Pewter life isn't used up if you're attacked once that cycle.

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2 minutes ago, Straw said:

I don't see why you'd include Malatium. It just seems like unnecessary complexity. Vin seems strong enough already.

Yeah, I figured. I don't know why I feel compelled to make everything related to the books xD 

4 minutes ago, Straw said:

Aren't you not able to use Atium and Duralumin at the same time? I had assumed that a Mistborn had two action slots (one for the basic eight, and one for Atium/Duralumin).

I had initially thought of it that way because I forgot about atium + duralumin xD Now I'm not sure if I should allow it or not. It feels too big a thing to say "you can't do that". I'm actually leaning towards not allowing it because I cannot think of an effect that wouldn't be OP. 

9 minutes ago, Straw said:

So wait, how exactly are you making Pewter work? Do you have to burn it to get the extra life, or is it a passive? If it's the first, just make it so your extra Pewter life isn't used up if you're attacked once that cycle.

I had always intended Thugs to be passive. That way, Mistborn would not die too early. 

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2 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

I had initially thought of it that way because I forgot about atium + duralumin xD Now I'm not sure if I should allow it or not. It feels too big a thing to say "you can't do that". I'm actually leaning towards not allowing it because I cannot think of an effect that wouldn't be OP. 

I had always intended Thugs to be passive. That way, Mistborn would not die too early. 

It just seems simplest to not allow it.

So, if it's passive, you can't burn it, right? So why would someone be able to have Pewter and Duralumin?

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Just now, Straw said:

So, if it's passive, you can't burn it, right? So why would someone be able to have Pewter and Duralumin?

Huh, I always imagined the Thug ability as instinctively (and automatically) burning pewter when attacked. 

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1 hour ago, TJ Shade said:

Huh, I always imagined the Thug ability as instinctively (and automatically) burning pewter when attacked. 

I mean, that makes sense with the books, but I'm not sure why you'd mechanically have Pewter and Duralumin with how you have things set up ATM, unless you basically want to give Duralumin an extra effect.

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Well yes, I kinda wanted to have all the basic 8 boosted by duralumin. Wouldn't be fair when the player asks to boost pewter with duralumin, and for me to reject it with no good reason. So, I was planning for Pewter to have a retaliatory kill for a cycle if it gets boosted by duralumin. 

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You could also do immune to all kills for a turn, so that they can’t get double-hit in one turn (although I don’t know if that’s actually a risk here), or let duralumin-Pewter give a second extra life, for that turn or permanently at the expense of the duralumin.

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4 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

You could also do immune to all kills for a turn, so that they can’t get double-hit in one turn (although I don’t know if that’s actually a risk here), or let duralumin-Pewter give a second extra life, for that turn or permanently at the expense of the duralumin.

Yup, that's what I was asking. Whether a retaliatory kill would be better, or a double extra life for the cycle. I wouldn't give double extra life permanently for the rest of the game though.  

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I don't think I would currently be able to GM a game, but that didn't stop me and a couple of friends who are also Sanderson fans from working on one. Feedback and thoughts would be appreciated; maybe in the future this game would be run.

Overview

This game, tentatively titled Collision of Metals, would run as a Long Game, with a total of 31 players. A cycle, as used later in this game description, refers to both a day and night. Each one of these (day or night) is referred to as a period. Periods would each last 24 hours. This game is set in Era 2 Scadrial in a town on the outskirts of Northern Scadrian influence.

Alignments

Spoiler

There are 5 factions within the game: the Set, Basin citizens, the Koloss, the Rogue Kandra, and the Southern Scadrian.

  1. the Set: There are 5 members of the Set in the game. Together, they have a group doc, as well as having a nightly kill as a group. This kill must be designated to be performed by one member of the Set each night. Win condition: Be the last remaining faction.
  2. Koloss: The game begins with at most one koloss. Each koloss has 2 lives and is part of the koloss group doc. At the beginning of the game, the "death counter" is set at 1. With each death that occurs in game, the counter increases. Once the counter reaches 4, a member of the koloss may perform a night conversion on another player. This conversion turns that person into a koloss, removing all metalborn abilities in the process. If the koloss attempt to convert a Kandra, Southern Scadrian, Worldhopper, or Dark Alley member, conversion fails. If the koloss convert a member of the Set, the Set member becomes a part of both factions, and may win with either of them. Win condition: Be the last remaining faction.
  3. Rogue Kandra: There is at most one kandra in the game. The kandra is immune to night kills and conversion. Win conditions: Be the last remaining faction OR be alive with only one other, non-citizen faction. (That is, if there are only Set or Koloss faction members alive as well as the Kandra, those factions lose and the Kandra wins).
  4. Southern Scadrian: There is at most one Southern Scadrian. Upon the Southern Scadrian's death, an ettmetal bomb will go off, killing everyone who performed an action on the Southern Scadrian that period (including votes). Win condition: Survive. The Southern Scadrian is a neutral player and does not have to be killed for any faction to win.
  5. Basin citizens: The normal village. Consists of all persons not a part of the above factions. Win condition: Kill all members of the Set, Koloss, and Kandra factions.

Metalborn Abilities

All metalborn abilities may be combined with either Basin or Set alignments. See below for potential twinborn.

  1. Special Roles
    Spoiler
    1. Mistborn - The Mistborn is a jack of all trades in Allomancy, having a single use of every one of the base 16 Allomantic abilities, as well as one use of Atium. The Mistborn may use one Allomantic ability each period. There will be at most one Mistborn. The Mistborn can not have any other abilities (though he/she may be aligned with the Set).
    2. Keeper - The Keeper is a jack of all trades in Feruchemy, having a single use of every one of the base 16 Feruchemical abilities, as well as one use of Atium. The Keeper may store any Feruchemical attributes each cycle, gaining one charge in that metal. On a later cycle, the Keeper may tap one attribute each period. The Keeper may only tap each metal once.There will be at most one Keeper. The Keeper can not have any other abilities (though he/she may be aligned with the Set).
    3. Inquisitor - The Inquisitor is a jack of all trades in Hemalurgy, having a single use of every one of the base 16 Allomantic abilities, as well as one use of Atium. The Inquisitor may use the ability of each of his spikes only once. Spikes stealing allomantic or feruchemical abilities will be determined by RNG at the beginning of the game. There will be at most one Inquisitor. The Inquisitor can not have any other abilities (though he/she may be aligned with the Set).
  2. Mistings - Mistings can burn their metal once a cycle. Mistings may also be Ferrings or Spiked, and may be Set aligned. There will be 6 mistings in the game.
    Spoiler

    Metal abilities:

    1. Tin: Can observe who performs actions on a target individual (including themselves). Does not see what action was performed, only which person performed an action. Limit one actor reveal per cycle. If more than one person targets the Tineye's target, one will be randomly selected to be revealed. Day or Night period.
    2. Pewter: +1 Life. The life lasts for the period in which the Thug burns pewter. When an attack that would normally have killed the Thug hits, the Thug runs out of Pewter and in future cycles cannot burn Pewter. (I.e. Only one bonus life can be gained.) Day or Night Period
    3. Iron: Can protect one person (including him-/herself) from one attack. Night period only.
    4. Steel: Can kill one person. Night period only.
    5. Copper: Day period - may protect one other person from vote manipulation OR Night period - may protect one other person from having their alignment/role revealed. When copper is burned, it automatically applies these effects to the Smoker. 
    6. Bronze: Can identify the role and faction of one person. Night period only.
    7. Zinc: Can change one person's vote at the negation of their own. Day period only.
    8. Brass: Can negate one person's vote. Day period only.
    9. Gold: Can observe all actions performed on him-/herself. Does not reveal who performed those actions. Day or Night period.
    10. Electrum: Can observe all actions performed on another. Does not reveal who performed those actions. While electrum is burned, the Oracle cannot be killed by any Atium user. Day or Night period.
    11. Cadmium: Can skip through one period, remaining unaffected by all actions performed on them during that period. If lynched, they will be killed during the next period. Day or Night period.
    12. Bendalloy: Can double the duration of one period on a person, roleblocking them for the subsequent period. Day or Night period.
    13. Aluminum: If the Aluminum Gnat is Set-aligned, may burn aluminum to become Basin aligned. If this occurs, the Gnat may not reveal the other members of the Set. While burning aluminum, conversion by a koloss and vote manipulation fails. Day or Night period. ***Special Rule for Mistborn: If used by a Mistborn, the Mistborn loses all remaining metals.
    14. Duralumin: While burning duralumin, cannot be converted by koloss. If conversion is attempted, the Gnat is alerted that someone attempted to convert him or her. Night period only. ***Special Rule for Mistborn: Doubles strength of next metal burned (see Nicrosil).
    15. Chromium: Negates allomantic abilities for one cycle. Day or Night period.
    16. Nicrosil: Doubles the strength of the person's next Allomantic burn. This results in the Allomantic action occurring twice on the target. Day or Night period.
    17. Atium: There are no atium mistings. ***Special Rule for Mistborn: May either kill one person OR protect one person OR have one additional life for the duration of the cycle. Day or Night period. 
  3. Ferrings - Ferrings may store their attribute once each cycle. This storing lasts for a period. At a later time, the Ferring may tap as many charges of that attribute as they have stored for one period. Ferrings may also be Mistings or Spiked, and may be Set aligned. There will be 6 Ferrings in the game.
    Spoiler

    Effects of Storing: If not otherwise noted, all attributes may be stored during either period.

    1. Tin: The names of persons who voted on the Windwhisperer are not revealed in the writeup. Day only.
    2. Pewter: Cannot perform an action during this period. 
    3. Iron: Cannot be protected from an attack, vote manipulation, or seeking.
    4. Steel: Cannot perform an action during this period.
    5. Copper: All actions performed by the Archivist will have their target randomized.
    6. Bronze: All actions performed by the Archivist will have their target randomized.
    7. Zinc: Vote randomized. Day only.
    8. Brass: 10% chance of being roleblocked for a cycle due to hypothermia. 
    9. Gold: 1/16 chance of being killed if any action is performed on the Bloodmaker.
    10. Electrum: Vote will be negated. Day only.
    11. Cadmium: Cannot place a vote. Day only.
    12. Bendalloy: Loses night action on next cycle.
    13. Aluminum: Vote becomes unidentified (will be counted as if anonymous). Day only.
    14. Duralumin: Cannot be protected from an attack, vote manipulation, or seeking.
    15. Chromium: Another player will be randomly selected. If that player dies, the Spinner will also be killed.
    16. Nicrosil: Cannot use any other abilities except vote and storing during next cycle.
    17. Atium: There are no Atium Ferrings. ***Special Note for Keeper: Cannot perform an action during cycle.

    Effects of Tapping: Unless otherwise noted, all attributes may be tapped during either period.

    1. Tin: Can observe which persons performed actions on the Windwhisperer (though not what actions were performed). 
    2. Pewter: +1 Life per charge for duration of period.
    3. Iron: Can protect one person. Additional charges stack protection. Night only.
    4. Steel: Can kill one person. Additional charges stack attack on person. Night only.
    5. Copper: Can remember every action performed on the Archivist during the period (though not who performed them).
    6. Bronze: Awake to see every action performed on the another during the period (though not who performed them).
    7. Zinc: Influence one person to change their vote to match the Sparker's vote. Day only.
    8. Brass: Attackers have a 25% chance of being revealed, and a 10% chance of being killed instead of the Firesoul. Chances increase by 5% for each charge. Night only.
    9. Gold: +1 Life per charge for duration of period. 
    10. Electrum: Can negate another's vote. Day only.
    11. Cadmium: Can skip through a night period, remaining unaffected by action performed then. Night only.
    12. Bendalloy: Can perform an action once a period for the next cycle instead of once a period.
    13. Aluminum: Can cast a vote as another player. This player would then have two votes under his/her name if they vote, one his/her vote, the other the Trueself's. Day only.
    14. Duralumin: One additional vote per charge. Day only.
    15. Chromium: Attacks on Spinner will fail, targeting another random player. Night only.
    16. Nicrosil: Can double the strength of another person's ability, including Set night kill.
    17. Atium: No Atium ferrings. ***Special Rule for Keepers: May either kill one person OR protect one person OR have one additional life for the duration of the cycle. Day or Night period. 
  4. Spiked - Spiked have an ability which can be used once a cycle. Some spikes steal Allomantic or Feruchemical abilities. The ability is determined randomly at the start of the game. Feruchemical abilities have the additional constraint that they can only be tapped one charge at a time.
    Spoiler

    Abilities: Unless otherwise noted, may be use during either period.

    1. Tin: Can observe who performs actions on an individual (including themselves). Does not reveal actions performed.
    2. Pewter: One random feruchemical physical ability.
    3. Iron: May kill one person. Night only.
    4. Steel: One random allomantic physical ability.
    5. Copper: Can observe all actions (not actors) performed on oneself.
    6. Bronze: One random allomantic mental ability.
    7. Zinc: Vote cannot be manipulated. Day only.
    8. Brass: One random feuchemical mental ability.
    9. Gold: One random feruchmical temporal ability.
    10. Electrum: One random allomantic enhancement ability.
    11. Cadmium: One random allomantic temporal ability.
    12. Bendalloy: One random feruchemical spiritual ability.
    13. Aluminum: One use. Remove another person's abilities. Does not remove Set night kill or Koloss conversion ability. If used on Kandra, Southern Scadrian, or Worldhopper, fails, and aluminum spike is given one more use.
    14. Duralumin: Can change one person's vote at negation of one's own. Day only.
    15. Chromium: Can swap the actions performed on oneself for those performed on another. Night only.
    16. Nicrosil: One use only. Can recover one metalborn ability from a person on the cycle they die. If used on Mistborn, Keeper, or Inquisitor, may only steal one single-use ability.
    17. Atium: No atium spiked. ***Special Rule for Inquisitor: One time use: May kill one person OR protect one person OR have one more life for the duration of the period.

Special Rules for Compounders: Compounding is enabled if a person is assigned the same metal in multiple systems.

  • Compounding for Misting/Ferrings: May exchange one use of an Allomantic ability to double the charges tapped during that cycle.
  • Compounding for Mistings/Spiked: May double Allomantic strength (see Nicrosil) at cost of one use of Hemalurgic ability.
  • Compounding for Ferrings/Spiked: May perform Hemalurgic ability twice in a cycle, at cost of all stored charges in that metal.
  • If a person has the same metal in all three abilities, they may only compound in one way per cycle.

Cosmetic Roles:

  1. Worldhopper: Returns random false positive on any seeking. Basin aligned.
  2. Dark Alley Baker: Can give out a cookie to a target player. Basin aligned. Alternate win condition: Give a cookie to all surviving persons by the end of the game.

Role Assignment:

Roles will be assigned as follows: 

  1. All players will be assigned a number, 1-31.
  2. By RNG, Koloss, Kandra, Southern Scadrian, Mistborn, Keeper, and Inquisitor are randomly assigned to a different number 1-36. If assigned to 32-36, these roles are not in the game.
  3. By RNG, Set faction is assigned to 5 different numbers 1-31. If assigned to a slot filled by another faction, assignment is re-rolled.
  4. By RNG, 6 Mistings are assigned to numbers 1-31, with all special roles and non-Set factions filtered out. Metals are then randomly assigned without duplicates.
  5. By RNG, 6 Ferrings are assigned to numbers 1-31, with all special roles and non-Set factions filtered out. Mistings are given one-half chance of being selected as a ferring. Metals are then randomly assigned without duplicates.
  6. By RNG, 6 Spikes are assigned to numbers 1-31, with all special roles and non-Set factions filtered out. Mistings and Ferrings are given one-half chance of being selected as a spiked, while players who are both misting and ferring are given a one-fourth chance. Metals are then randomly assigned without duplicates.
  7. Worldhopper and Dark Alley Baker are randomly assigned between all players without any other role or alignment.

Summary of Role Spread based on 31 trials:

  • Average Number of Special Roles in play: 5.17
  • Average Number of Alignments: 4
  • Average Vanilla Percentage: 22.37%  
  • Average Twinborn Percentage: 8.29%
  • Average Additional Abilities of Set members: 0.83 ea
  • Average Compounders Percentage: 0.21%
  • Average Tripleborn (one ability in each system): 0.31%
Edited by 18th Shard
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10 hours ago, 18th Shard said:

This game, tentatively titled Collision of Metals, would run as a Long Game, with a total of 31 players. A cycle, as used later in this game description, refers to both a day and night. Each one of these (day or night) is referred to as a period. Periods would each last 24 hours. This game is set in Era 2 Scadrial in a town on the outskirts of Northern Scadrian influence.

Balancing around having 31 players isn't ideal, since most LGs trend a bit lower than that. Why do 24/24 cycles for a LG instead of the standard 48/24?

10 hours ago, 18th Shard said:

There are 5 factions within the game: the Set, Basin citizens, the Koloss, the Rogue Kandra, and the Southern Scadrian.

  1. the Set: There are 5 members of the Set in the game. Together, they have a group doc, as well as having a nightly kill as a group. This kill must be designated to be performed by one member of the Set each night. Win condition: Be the last remaining faction.
  2. Koloss: The game begins with at most one koloss. Each koloss has 2 lives and is part of the koloss group doc. At the beginning of the game, the "death counter" is set at 1. With each death that occurs in game, the counter increases. Once the counter reaches 4, a member of the koloss may perform a night conversion on another player. This conversion turns that person into a koloss, removing all metalborn abilities in the process. If the koloss attempt to convert a Kandra, Southern Scadrian, Worldhopper, or Dark Alley member, conversion fails. If the koloss convert a member of the Set, the Set member becomes a part of both factions, and may win with either of them. Win condition: Be the last remaining faction.
  3. Rogue Kandra: There is at most one kandra in the game. The kandra is immune to night kills and conversion. Win conditions: Be the last remaining faction OR be alive with only one other, non-citizen faction. (That is, if there are only Set or Koloss faction members alive as well as the Kandra, those factions lose and the Kandra wins).
  4. Southern Scadrian: There is at most one Southern Scadrian. Upon the Southern Scadrian's death, an ettmetal bomb will go off, killing everyone who performed an action on the Southern Scadrian that period (including votes). Win condition: Survive. The Southern Scadrian is a neutral player and does not have to be killed for any faction to win.
  5. Basin citizens: The normal village. Consists of all persons not a part of the above factions. Win condition: Kill all members of the Set, Koloss, and Kandra factions.

Locking in the members of the Set restricts your balancing options quite a bit, so I wouldn't recommend doing that. Since seven or eight elims would be the normal balanced number for a 31 player game, you'd have to give them a lot of strong roles.

Just to clarify, can the Koloss convert multiple times? If not, I'd recommend scrapping the death counter. I assume if the conversion fails, they get to try again for free? I think that the Kandra and Dark Alley member should both be convertible, and I don't see much reason why they shouldn't be convertible. I'm not sure how I feel about them being able to convert Set members, since that'd end with the Set member selling out one of the two factions, which isn't very fun.

I really don't see much reason for the Southern Scadrian faction/role to exist, other than as a game mechanic. They want to survive, but they don't really have any mechanics to help them survive, other than the threat of blowing people up. That would be a pretty good threat, but every elim will just claim it as well if they're getting lynched, so I don't think it's terribly useful. I'd recommend giving them some kind of ability that helps them while they're alive, or at least give them an extra life.

10 hours ago, 18th Shard said:
  • Mistborn - The Mistborn is a jack of all trades in Allomancy, having a single use of every one of the base 16 Allomantic abilities, as well as one use of Atium. The Mistborn may use one Allomantic ability each period. There will be at most one Mistborn. The Mistborn can not have any other abilities (though he/she may be aligned with the Set).
  • Keeper - The Keeper is a jack of all trades in Feruchemy, having a single use of every one of the base 16 Feruchemical abilities, as well as one use of Atium. The Keeper may store any Feruchemical attributes each cycle, gaining one charge in that metal. On a later cycle, the Keeper may tap one attribute each period. The Keeper may only tap each metal once.There will be at most one Keeper. The Keeper can not have any other abilities (though he/she may be aligned with the Set).
  • Inquisitor - The Inquisitor is a jack of all trades in Hemalurgy, having a single use of every one of the base 16 Allomantic abilities, as well as one use of Atium. The Inquisitor may use the ability of each of his spikes only once. Spikes stealing allomantic or feruchemical abilities will be determined by RNG at the beginning of the game. There will be at most one Inquisitor. The Inquisitor can not have any other abilities (though he/she may be aligned with the Set).

So, I'm a bit confused about the Inquisitor. You say that they're a jack of all trades in Hemalurgy, but then say that they just have one use of each Allomantic ability, but like the Mistborn. Did you mean to say that they have one use of each Spike?

10 hours ago, 18th Shard said:

[Allomancy stuff]

All of these seem fine, other than Aluminum, which is pretty problematic. I'd really strongly recommend removing their ability to switch factions, since that's not going to end well. Iron should maybe be given a limit. Not being able to protect yourself or not being able to protect the same person twice in a row 

10 hours ago, 18th Shard said:

[Feruchemy stuff]

Why does Bronze storing affect the Archivist? That doesn't make sense. Aluminum tapping seems weird? It doesn't really do much, since you can just go back and figure out what the real vote count was.

10 hours ago, 18th Shard said:

Cosmetic Roles:

  1. Worldhopper: Returns random false positive on any seeking. Basin aligned.
  2. Dark Alley Baker: Can give out a cookie to a target player. Basin aligned. Alternate win condition: Give a cookie to all surviving persons by the end of the game.

Cosmetic roles is a term usually used to refer to roles that people can choose for RP, not for actual roles. For the Worldhopper, what do you mean by "false positive"? Do you mean that it returns random results?

EDIT: Forgot to comment on role assignment.

10 hours ago, 18th Shard said:

Role Assignment:

Roles will be assigned as follows: 

  1. All players will be assigned a number, 1-31.
  2. By RNG, Koloss, Kandra, Southern Scadrian, Mistborn, Keeper, and Inquisitor are randomly assigned to a different number 1-36. If assigned to 32-36, these roles are not in the game.
  3. By RNG, Set faction is assigned to 5 different numbers 1-31. If assigned to a slot filled by another faction, assignment is re-rolled.
  4. By RNG, 6 Mistings are assigned to numbers 1-31, with all special roles and non-Set factions filtered out. Metals are then randomly assigned without duplicates.
  5. By RNG, 6 Ferrings are assigned to numbers 1-31, with all special roles and non-Set factions filtered out. Mistings are given one-half chance of being selected as a ferring. Metals are then randomly assigned without duplicates.
  6. By RNG, 6 Spikes are assigned to numbers 1-31, with all special roles and non-Set factions filtered out. Mistings and Ferrings are given one-half chance of being selected as a spiked, while players who are both misting and ferring are given a one-fourth chance. Metals are then randomly assigned without duplicates.
  7. Worldhopper and Dark Alley Baker are randomly assigned between all players without any other role or alignment.

What do you gain from assigning roles like this? Balance would vary massively, since one faction (out of Basin and Set) could get all the roles and dominate the game. Why not attempt to make it balanced instead of doing it randomly?

Edited by Straw
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1 hour ago, Straw said:
  1. Balancing around having 31 players isn't ideal, since most LGs trend a bit lower than that. Why do 24/24 cycles for a LG instead of the standard 48/24?
  2. Locking in the members of the Set restricts your balancing options quite a bit, so I wouldn't recommend doing that. Since seven or eight elims would be the normal balanced number for a 31 player game, you'd have to give them a lot of strong roles.
  3. Just to clarify, can the Koloss convert multiple times? If not, I'd recommend scrapping the death counter. I assume if the conversion fails, they get to try again for free? I think that the Kandra and Dark Alley member should both be convertible, and I don't see much reason why they shouldn't be convertible. I'm not sure how I feel about them being able to convert Set members, since that'd end with the Set member selling out one of the two factions, which isn't very fun.
  4. I really don't see much reason for the Southern Scadrian faction/role to exist, other than as a game mechanic. They want to survive, but they don't really have any mechanics to help them survive, other than the threat of blowing people up. That would be a pretty good threat, but every elim will just claim it as well if they're getting lynched, so I don't think it's terribly useful. I'd recommend giving them some kind of ability that helps them while they're alive, or at least give them an extra life.
  5. So, I'm a bit confused about the Inquisitor. You say that they're a jack of all trades in Hemalurgy, but then say that they just have one use of each Allomantic ability, but like the Mistborn. Did you mean to say that they have one use of each Spike?
  6. All of these seem fine, other than Aluminum, which is pretty problematic. I'd really strongly recommend removing their ability to switch factions, since that's not going to end well. Iron should maybe be given a limit. Not being able to protect yourself or not being able to protect the same person twice in a row 
  7. Why does Bronze storing affect the Archivist? That doesn't make sense. Aluminum tapping seems weird? It doesn't really do much, since you can just go back and figure out what the real vote count was.
  8. Cosmetic roles is a term usually used to refer to roles that people can choose for RP, not for actual roles. For the Worldhopper, what do you mean by "false positive"? Do you mean that it returns random results?
  9. EDIT: Forgot to comment on role assignment. What do you gain from assigning roles like this? Balance would vary massively, since one faction (out of Basin and Set) could get all the roles and dominate the game. Why not attempt to make it balanced instead of doing it randomly?
  1. Having the 24/24 cycles is partially to help balance the large number of players. There are that many players simply to help balance between the Set and Koloss factions.
  2. I'd read somewhere (I can't find it now) where they said a balanced number of Eliminators was the square root of the number of players, rounded down. I could definitely increase the number of Set. You said 7 or 8 would be around where you think it would be balanced? I wanted there to be balance between the Set and the koloss, with the Set having an advantage at the beginning, and the koloss an advantage late-game.
  3. Koloss get one convert for every four deaths, although they do have to use that conversion before they can use another (i.e. once 3 people have died they may convert once, but if they don't convert before 7 have died, then they lose that opportunity and still only have one convert). Yes, if it fails, they get to try again. I could definitely make Set immune to being converted, and Dark Alley able to be converted. The point of the Kandra, SoScad, and Worldhopper all being immune is that the koloss would know that their target was one of those roles, but are unsure whether they should try to kill them (Kandra) or avoid killing them (SoScad), with the Worldhopper being a false positive.
  4. Again, the SoScad, who no one wants to kill, is meant to be a counter to the Kandra, who everyone wants to kill. I agree that another ability in life would be helpful - any ideas?
  5. That is indeed meant to be Spikes, that's a typo.
  6. Will remove the alignment change on Aluminum. Iron not protecting self would be a good balance.
  7. That should be Sentry, that is an artifact of a copy and paste that didn't get changed. Aluminum is essentially making an anonymous vote on a person in the name of someone else - if the Trueself votes for Player A, and Player B votes for Player C, and then the Trueself taps a charge of aluminum to make it appear that they voted for Player C as Player B, the the final vote would appear as Player A (0) and Player C (2 - Player B, Player B). It would appear similar to using Allomantic zinc on oneself.
  8. Yes, Worldhopper returns random results on scans.
  9. I thought it would be interesting to have a game where all the roles and alignments are transparently shown, but it is unknown exactly which ones are in the game. On average, one of the Jack of all Trades or Special Factions (Koloss, Kandra, SoScad) are not in play. Also, while there is possibility of a significantly unbalanced game, most of the times I have run the assignment have assigned relatively balanced numbers of metalborn to Set members. If there was a game outcome that was significantly unbalanced, I could just run the assignment again. I'd prefer creating a system that was perfectly balanced based on RNG to avoid personal bias affecting assignments. If you want, I could attach some of the assignment results.

Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it. 

EDIT: Note on the RNG for Mistings, Ferrings, and Spiked overlap: I wanted there to be a small chance of there being twinborn/"tripleborn" in the game to mimic the books, so the majority of the complex RNG there is to give that possibility a chance. It means that there is a much higher chance of a role being assigned to a player without a role, but there is a chance a misting could receive an additional ability. Compounding is very rare due to this chance being small multiplied by the chance of getting the same metals. 

Edited by 18th Shard
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40 minutes ago, 18th Shard said:
  1. Having the 24/24 cycles is partially to help balance the large number of players. There are that many players simply to help balance between the Set and Koloss factions.
  2. I'd read somewhere (I can't find it now) where they said a balanced number of Eliminators was the square root of the number of players, rounded down. I could definitely increase the number of Set. You said 7 or 8 would be around where you think it would be balanced? I wanted there to be balance between the Set and the koloss, with the Set having an advantage at the beginning, and the koloss an advantage late-game.

1. How does cycle length help balance the number of players? Are you meaning in terms of game length? In that case, I'd recommend just doing 48/24 with extra kill power to make the game speed up.

2. Most games tend to be balanced at 20-25%, with roles sometimes changing those numbers slightly (ex: having a smaller elim team with stronger roles). Numbers depend a lot on how much you expect the village to mislynch. With multiple conversions and lives, I'd say the Koloss are fairly equal to a seven/eight member Set, since converting people is far stronger than having them from the start, and Koloss all have double lives.

40 minutes ago, 18th Shard said:
  • Koloss get one convert for every four deaths, although they do have to use that conversion before they can use another (i.e. once 3 people have died they may convert once, but if they don't convert before 7 have died, then they lose that opportunity and still only have one convert). Yes, if it fails, they get to try again. I could definitely make Set immune to being converted, and Dark Alley able to be converted. The point of the Kandra, SoScad, and Worldhopper all being immune is that the koloss would know that their target was one of those roles, but are unsure whether they should try to kill them (Kandra) or avoid killing them (SoScad), with the Worldhopper being a false positive.
  • Again, the SoScad, who no one wants to kill, is meant to be a counter to the Kandra, who everyone wants to kill. I agree that another ability in life would be helpful - any ideas?

Makes sense for the Koloss. Yeah, I'd definitely recommend making the Set immune.

You could give the Southern Scadrian the same immunity as the Kandra, to make them more on par with each other. That would make things a lot easier for them, since they wouldn't have to worry about being too non-suspicious and having the elims kill them in retaliation. It'd also stop them from losing due to being randomly sniped by an elim or vigilante early on.

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Alright, I’ve gone a little insane for my first game idea. It’s a Rosharan Role Madness Game with Hidden Rules. The concept is Bridge Four v.s the Skybreakers. There is also a Store, with Spheres/Stormlight Charges. I got a lot of inspiration from your LG, Straw. Anyways here is the link to the rule doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18zfJEex4dm0Bh4eWG0sHuLBac-WlmyghQUof7JDAgJk/edit

I may post the hidden rules here, but I feel like that would ruin it for anybody who would wish to play the game. So I’ll just tell you, Vyre and Nale have secrets, and Yelig-nar’s gemstone is kind of OP.

Edited by Ventyl
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Quote

Whoever has the most post at the end of a turn gets 5 Stormlight Charges. To qualify you must have at least 3 posts over 100 words.

I'm slightly concerned this will result in another 20 page D1, with people making 3 100 word posts then spamming short posts.

I don't understand the Basic Lashing mechanic. 

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I'm reading through it ATM, but I strongly agree with Mist about the most posts thing.

For Basic Lashings, I think this is how they work:

  • Everyone is in one of these four lashed states: X, Y, Z, and normal.
  • If you use an action on someone, and your state is not the same as theirs, your action fails.
  • The one exception to the above is if your state is X, Y, or Z, and their state is normal.
  • You can spend one Stormlight to lash yourself in the X or Y direction, and three Stormlight to lash yourself in the Z direction.

So basically, lashing yourself gives you protection from other people, and makes it so you have a chance of hitting other lashed people. The advantage of spending three charges is that if someone wants to hit you, they have to spend three charges as well.

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