Metacognition

The Art of Game Creation

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The mechanic is solid, Hero and I do think it is well done, but I don't think it's the kind of thing you'd want for a game like this. Hell, even the probability I used with the Unsnapped was pushing it, IMO. The reason is, you really don't want to leave too much up to chance. The game is more about psychology and manipulation than it is about dice rolls. If too much is left up to chance, then it takes out some of the risk when posting and suspecting someone. 

 

Now, that's not to say it couldn't work. As I said, the mechanics are very well done and I don't want to stifle anyone's creativity. If you or anyone else wanted to use such a mechanic, that is definitely the way to do it! 

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@Meta: I agree 100%. That is why I said there would be a lot more that still needs to be figured out if we were to implement it, and by the end it might very well be an entirely different game than what we've had so far.

Thank you for pointing that out though, I should have said something more to that effect myself. But, as I said, I haven't thought much past that game mechanic.

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I've thought up some more vote-altering  Boons and Curses:

 

- You are able to vote against two different people (not two votes against one person), but you always receive an extra vote against yourself if you have two or more votes against you.

 

- You may cast your vote as far as two cycles in advance, you may not alter this vote on the day, but you may alter it anytime before that. If you die then any votes you've cast in advance will still remain in effect. 

 

- You may divert votes away from one person onto another person and yourself. If you divert say six votes away from person A then both you and person B, your target, receives 3 votes. If person A has 7 votes then you receive 3 and person B receives 4.

 

- You may divert all votes away from a single person onto yourself, if the number of votes you receive is less than 3 or an even number, then you survive, if it's 3 or more and odd then you get lynched. (Note: it's probably not a good idea to have both this and the previous B&C in the same game). I don't think anyone would really want this B&C.

 

*I suppose that things may get complicated if there are more than one of these vote-altering B&Cs in a single game.

Edited by Aspren
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- You may divert votes away from one person onto another person and yourself. If you divert say six votes away from person A then both you and person B, your target, receives 3 votes. If person A has 7 votes then you receive 3 and person B receives 4.

 

- You may divert all votes away from a single person onto yourself, if the number of votes you receive is less than 3 or an even number, then you survive, if it's 3 or more and odd then you get lynched. (Note: it's probably not a good idea to have both this and the previous B&C in the same game). I don't think anyone would really want this B&C.

 

 

Just my opinion, but these two are WAY too powerful. Those basically allows one person to negate an entire turn, which is just too much. If it were a night turn, these same boon/curses would effectively negate everyone's night actions. Remember, some people only have their ability to vote and the vote is an important part of the game, as it's typically the time when everyone actually talks about their decisions. There are a few forums I've read that the day round doesn't end until everyone has voted, so that means the day round could last days easily and a week or more if people keep switching their votes. That's how important the day turn and voting is. 

 

Which is why I'll right now state that messing with the day round is a very tricky business. I have used two roles that can affect the day round and even then, I made sure to balance them with another role, so just be careful when trying to come up with day round abilities. 

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Would you suggest that I  scrap those two totally, or could I nerf them?

Maybe make it that it can only be used once, which it may as well be anyway, as I doubt  that any would appreciate having their vote diverted. Or maybe have it that you can divert all votes away from the target straight to you, ensuring your death but giving you the opportunity to save someone (if there'd be a reason to do that).

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You know, it occurred to me last night that Span Reeds would make for a very interesting game mechanics. Players can only send PMs if they have a span reed, and then, only with the person at the other end. At the beginning of the game, a player with a span reed picks who to give the other half to (or maybe that choice is made for him by the GM? and maybe the player isn't told who holds the other half? THAT would be interesting, being able to send secret messages to another player whose identity you didn't know).

 

Something like that would be even more interesting if there was a "looting" aspect to the game, where when someone dies, the killer gets to take their stuff.  <_<

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You would have to send the PM through the game-master, which, depending on how many Spanreed holders there are, would make quite a bit more work for the game-master. This would be almost as much work for the game-master as Uber-Tin is. I don't think it would be to effective having the Spanreeds acting as that. PMs would be delayed, responses would also be delayed, and you really wouldn't want to say much to an anonymous player in the first place, whose role and alliance you don't know. Though In certain cases I guess you couldn't be any less certain of their role. 

 

I think that the Spanreeds should act in a similar way to how the Tineyes do. Allowing a person to post anonymous messages through the Game-master, in the write-ups.

 

I think that an interesting Stormlight Eliination game would be where there are Ghostbloods and their objective is to obtain specific items. The only way they can take these items is obviously by killing those who already have them. 

I did already come up with a few curses and boons that allow a person to loot those who have already died or allow a person to give away their items on their own death.

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Aluminum Ferrings: Trueselves; An Aluminum Ferring is a Passive role, like a Thug. The Vote of an Aluminum Ferring may Not be affected in any way.

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Not a role, as much as a setting. It should be obvious from he games that I like the writing part more than the gameplay, so this was a scenario that occurred to me:

The Players with Roles are Shards.

The Regular players are Worldhoppers.

The Inquisitor Player is an Odium-like character.

At the moment, I've just been adapting the current roles to the Shard names (though I'd expect any role playing to be done with invented names). A Thug would be the equivalent of splintering, with the 'second life' being as Spren/Aons/whatever.

A Lurcher would be an Endowment-character, giving players a second chance at life.

Right now though, it's just fluff. The only idea I've had, game-play wise, might be to have two separate games running at once, influencing one another, or to maybe make the Shards (aside from Odium) only capable of using their powers and not being able to vote.

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@Quiver So do you meanthe Shards are Characters in and of them selves? Or are they just people invested with Shardic abilities? Like would the Preservation Shardjust be a Mistborn, and the Endowenment Shard be an Awakener? Or would you have the Players be ShardHolders?

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Like I said, it's mostly fluff, but I had thought of the players being the Shards.

 

An alternative idea occurred to me, though it might be imbalanced or unfair. It would certainly require a large player pool.

 

X number of players are Shards, with one of the Shard being Odium (or an equivalent).

The Shardholders know who each other are (though they don't know the roles everyone has).

 

Regular players are worldhoppers, with X number being Odium's champions.

Day cycles work the same as they do right now, with players voting to kill each other. The Shardholders do their own, separate vote to choose which Shard to Shatter.

 

For night cycles, the regular players have no roles. The Shardholders can use their roles as we've been doing now. Alternatively, they can choose to Invest themselves in one of the players, granting them their ability for the Night Cycle, with the downside that it leaves them vulnerable.

 

Like I say, I'm still working this out, but here's an example as I see it working during a Night Cycle:

 

Honour is a Thug. He Invests in a Worldhopper.

Odium is a Coinshot. He targets Honour .

Odium's Champion targets the Worldhopper.

The Worldhopper does nothing.

 

Result:

The Worldhopper is attacked but survives through his Thugginess.

Because he isn't a Thug any more, Honour is killed by Odium's Coinshot.

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Honour; I feel would be Lurcher like, Protecting those who cannot protect themselves

Odium; A Seeker maybe? He figures out what shard is what

Cultivation; ???

Ruin; Kill

Preservation; Thuggish

Endowenment; He can give dead shards to Worldhoppers without knowing their alignment

Devotion; Protects someone?

Domination; Takes Control of someone's vote, Rioter

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As I say, I'm still trying to figure out the mechanics of how it would work. I really need to pay that wiki a visit, and see the other sorts of roles they have.

Thinking about it, I do rather like Honour having the Lurcher investment. It ties in with the character (giving someone surge binding) and encourages lets the player make the choice of who to help. Preservation making someone survive (or be preserved) sounds kind of appropriate to.

Odium and Ruin are a bit harder to differentiate. I was thinking Odium would be the Coinshot, since Ruin doesn't go around trying to destroy shards. I suppose tearing things down could be interpreted as Soothing?

Cultivation... a Tineye, maybe? Cultivating bonds between players by letting them talk to each other.

Devotion... perhaps picks a person, and if they get lynched the next day, they survive?

As I say, this is vague, so any ideas anyone has would be welcome. Thanks for the input Joe.

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Odium does make more sense as the Killer, so Ruin as a Soother, hmm... Maybe Ruin would be able to Destroy other people's actions? Like he targets X, so X can't do anything for that day/night?

 

Also, Are we missing any Shards? I heard there were 10 so far.

 

Ooh! Odium has a few champions, Hoid is a Hidden Worldhopper and also has a few Champions, but he has to kill all the Shards to Rebuild Aldonasium, so there are 3 teams. The Worldhoppers + Shards win when Hoid and Odium are Dead. Hoid and Odium win when all the Shards + Each other are dead.

Edited by The Only Joe
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Odium does make more sense as the Killer, so Ruin as a Soother, hmm... Maybe Ruin would be able to Destroy other people's actions? Like he targets X, so X can't do anything for that day/night?

I like that. It maybe sounds overpowered ("All your powers and votes are belong to me!") but since it means guessing which Wirldhopper is going to be invested to start with, it would be a lot harder to use in practice.

 

Also, Are we missing any Shards? I heard there were 10 so far.

Devotion

Dominion

Preservation

Ruin

Endowment

Honour

Cultivation

Odium

We know one Shard is held by someone named Bavadin

There's an unnamed Shard who Brandon says 'just wants to survive'.

 

Ooh! Odium has a few champions, Hoid is a Hidden Worldhopper and also has a few Champions, but he has to kill all the Shards to Rebuild Aldonasium, so there are 3 teams. The Worldhoppers + Shards win when Hoid and Odium are Dead. Hoid and Odium win when all the Shards + Each other are dead.

Obviously the numbers of Shards and Regulars will vary from game to game. I like having those multi-teams, though I worry that it might be unbalanced.

Right now, there's Odium with a Shard kill shot vs everyone else. No one else can kill Shards, but that still means up to nine powered individuals working against him.

Hoid being on his own also sounds like a disadvantage, though I suppose he could be this games Mistborn, rolling up a different power from the Investments each night.

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I like that. It maybe sounds overpowered ("All your powers and votes are belong to me!") but since it means guessing which Wirldhopper is going to be invested to start with, it would be a lot harder to use in practice.

I more meant that Ruin cancels out their move for the Day. And as for Devotion , I think people who are going to be Lynched can 'Pray for Forgiveness' And Devotion can choose to save them, but cause them to Repent, Revealing their Alignment.

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Oh no! Sorry about the down vote The Only Joe! That was an accident! I was scrolling down on my phone and bumped it, and now there doesn't seem to be any way to undo it. I'll up vote a couple of your other posts to make up for it.

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Oh no! Sorry about the down vote The Only Joe! That was an accident! I was scrolling down on my phone and bumped it, and now there doesn't seem to be any way to undo it. I'll up vote a couple of your other posts to make up for it.

It happens every now and then, perhaps more often than you would think. Someone always balances it out when the person posts saying what happened :)

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Thank you to Whoever Balanced it out, and thank you Hero for admitting to doing it.

 

Lord Clainy, whenever i read a Post By You, I instinctively look for White words. You're very Coruptive.

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Corruptive- the Shard that concerts players!

No, not really. Honestly, I wasn't sure which post he was talking about, but I've been meaning to up vote your posts for a while. Feedback positive reinforcement, you know? ; )

I'm not quite convinced about Devotions power, but that might be because, again, right now the game idea doesn't have many sides. I do like the effect for it being some sort of a more general thing, than being a night time attack style one.

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Corruptive- the Shard that concerts players!

concerts? XD

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Thank you to Whoever Balanced it out, and thank you Hero for admitting to doing it.

 

Lord Clainy, whenever i read a Post By You, I instinctively look for White words. You're very Coruptive.

I might start doing it in other places too. It's too much fun :)

 

Yup. Starting now. To put something actually interesting here: I am currently working on rules for a Nalthis elimination. I'll post them here shortly when I've got a little more done on them. And yes, game 4 will be set on Nalthis.

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 Sounds awesome Claincy!

 

 

 

I hope there is a mechanic for making dead players into lifeless!

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 Sounds awesome Claincy!

 

 

 

I hope there is a mechanic for making dead players into lifeless!

Not as of yet, though i may add one. At the moment the lifeless commands are held by 1 player, giving them essentially the same powers as a coinshot. They can choose to tell the commands to someone else but the commands cannot be used that night as changing the commands takes an action, and the original player can no longer command the lifeless :) So it could be useful if they thought they were going to die but if they give them to one of the "spiked" who aren't spiked, but more on that another time.

 

Another option is that they are free to tell anyone the command anytime through pm. However, if two people command the lifeless to kill someone in the same night nothing happens, and anyone who knows the command can spend their night action to change the command. If someone else tries to use the lifeless on the same night the commands still change and the attack doesn't happen. If two people try to change the commands on the same night then nothing happens.

 

This is a general message to everyone. If you post any words or radiance spoilers in the Roleplaying section without using spoiler tags and appropriate warnings. At night when it's very dark and everyone is asleep I will come to your house, and read your copy of Words of Radiance!....Actually that isn't really all that threatening is it? I know! I will wake you every time I get excited by something and want to talk about it....wait. Dangit, I need to work on my threats. Seriously though, please don't : )

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ODIUM: Once per night, Odium can target a Shard for death. Unless otherwise disrupted, that Shard dies.

Investiture: Once per night, Odium can invest in a worldhopper. That player can kill someone during the same night phase.

 

HONOR: Once per night, Honor can target a Shard, and that Shard will be saved from death.

Investiture: Once per night, Honor can invest in a worldhopper. That player can Lash someone during the same night phase, saving them from death.

 

CULTIVATION: Once per day cycle, Cultivation can submit their vote to the Game Master as a Private Message. As long as Cultivation is alive, players can send private messages back and forth.

Investiture: Once per night, Cultivation can invest in a worldhopper. That player can cast their vote during the next day cycle in a Private message with the Game Master. This vote can be different from what they post in the thread, without needing to retract it.

 

PRESERVATION: Preservation can survive a single attack. If they are attacked again, they die.

Investiture: Once per night, Perservation can invest in a worldhopper. That player can survive one attack until the next night cycle. During this time, Preservation cannot survive their first attack.

 

DOMINATION: Once during the day cycle, Domination can change a Shards vote.

Investiture: Once per night, Domination can invest in a worldhopper. That player can change another players vote during the next day cycle. During this time, Domination cannot change Shard Votes.

 

DEVOTION: Once during the day cycle, Devotion can message the Game Master with the name of a player. This power may be exercised at any point during the day cycle. If the player Devotion saves has the most votes at the end of the day cycle, they survive and no one is killed.

Investiture: Once per night, Devotion can invest in a worldhopper. During the next day cycle, this player is exempt as a target for lynching.

 

ENDOWMENT:

 

RUIN: Once every day/night cycle, Ruin can target a Shard. During the day, a targeted Shards vote doesn’t count. During the night, a targeted Shard cannot use their ability, though they can still invest.

Investiture: Once per night, Ruin can invest in a worldhopper. This worldhopper cannot use any abilities they gained during this night cycle, and cannot vote during the day. Ruin may PM the game master to cast a worldhopper vote via proxy.

 

ODIUM’S CHAMPION: Once per night, Odium’s champion can target a worldhopper for death. Unless otherwise disrupted, that worldhopper dies.

 

HOID: If Hoid is invested by a Shard, he gain’s a copy of that Shards ability for the remainder of the game. Hoid may only use one of these powers for any day/night cycle.

Honor: If Hoid is invested by Honor, he can Lash players once during the night cycle for the remainder of the game, saving they from death.

Cultivation: If Hoid is invested by Cultivation, he can cast all his votes in Private Messages and communicate with any player at any time.

Preservation: If Hoid is invested by Preservation, he can survive a single attack for the remainder of the game.

Dominaton: If Hoid is invested by Domination, he can change one players vote during the day cycle.

Odium: If Hoid is invested by Odium, once a night he can target a player for death.

 

WORLDHOPPER: You have no abilities unless you're invested, but you can still vote during the day cycle. Not every story is about the most powerful character.

 

Designers Notes: 

First draft of roles for the Shard-Game I mentioned above. Most of the Shards are levelled up or re-titled versions of the roles we currently have, since the main game mechanic I wanted to add was Investiture.

 

During Wake of the Koloss, I was a Lurcher, so I had something I could do every night. During the Devils Den, I think it was Seran who said he started playing again once he had been notified that he'd snapped. So, I'm hoping that the shifting powers and the chance that, theoretically, anyone can get an ability during the night cycle might encourage activity, since Shards would have to decide whether or not to invest and who to invest quickly, and then that player only has a limited window to make use of the power.

 

Don't know about Endowment passing Shards along though, which is why I left it blank. I probably need stronger victory conditions, but right now I like the idea of it being Odium v Shards v Hoid, and letting Endowment recruit and refill their ranks seems like it would unbalance things.

 

And.. I realise Hoid might seem sort of over-powered. My justification for that is that: 

1) He doesn't start with those abilities, and his gaining them is entirely dependant on other people's actions.

2) I like the idea of Hoid starting out as a normal worldhopper and upgrading to become stronger

3) Hoid is the most powerful non-Shard in the cosmere.

 

Thoughts?

Edited by Quiver
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