The Art of Game Creation

[the winter system]

Calvinball.

The best. Sport. Ever.

[twelfthrootoftwo]

Eol, Piff and I have been working on a game set on the Pantheon. There are QF and MR variants, with some roles exclusive to one or the other, and some varying. Anything without an indicator is in both variants. Which one do you guys prefer?

Spoilers for Sixth of the Dusk! (Not major ones, but more than you'll find in the free excerpt.)

 

The Northern Interests Trading Company have been expanding their foothold in the Pantheon. Experience on Patji has taught a few of their number to survive the cruel jungle, allowing them to explore the islands as freely as the trappers do. Now their gaze has landed on the island of Amaji, and a small party has been sent to scout the island and weaken the resident trappers.

 

But word has finally spread through the Eelakin people, and the trappers of Amaji desire action. When the body of one of their own is found, killed by a foreign harpoon, they come together for the first time. Now they must figure out who among them are the foreigners before Amaji falls to the traders' control.

 

Game:

A QF/MR game with combined Day and Night turns. Trappers v. Traders, with a bonus win condition for the Trapper with the most types of Aviar at the end of the game. Players get one vote and one action per cycle. Actions can include the Trader kill, Trapper special abilities, Aviar abilities (two can be used in one cycle) and giving Aviar to others.

 

Factions:

Traders - The Eliminator faction. Familiar enough with the Pantheon to pass as trappers, you are also equipped with advanced weaponry. You get one kill per cycle and can communicate in a doc.

Trappers - Native to the Eelakin Isles, you've spent most of your lives in the harsh Pantheon jungle - first on Sori, now Amaji.

 

Trapper subclasses:

Some Trappers have special skills.

 

Sori - Too young to have completed your training, you have nonetheless come to Amaji to fight the traders. You start the game knowing the identity of one non-Trader player.

Patji (active) - Not all the traders survived their first exposure to the Pantheon jungle. You took a harpoon gun from an unfortunate corpse before escaping the Father. You can make three kills over the game.

Skilled Trapper - The traps you set around your shelter are more subtle than most. You can survive one kill attempt other than the lynch.

Influential (MR, active) - You are known and respected among the Amaji trappers. You may change another player’s vote 5 times during the game.

Hidden (MR, active) - Your shelter is well hidden. Each cycle, you may choose to hide; you lose your vote and become untargetable (immune to lynch and actions). Can’t be used two cycles in a row.

 

Aviar:

Players can start with more than one Aviar. Players can have a max of 5 Aviar; up to two can be used in the same cycle. A player can give any number of their Aviar to another player, and they can also be stolen (see below).

 

Mind Shield - You and your targeted player cannot be detected by Power Sensing Aviar. When this ability is activated, you and your target gain double caution in the next cycle (your target is informed of this).

Death Sight - Your Aviar warns about potential deaths. You may target one player; forewarned of death, they can survive one kill action that cycle (but not lynches).

Power sensing - Your Aviar can sense and identify nearby Investiture. You may target one player, and learn the number of Aviar they possess and the nature of one of their Aviar (QF) or learn all the Aviar they possess (MR).

Beautiful - Your Aviar seems to draw attention. You may target one player, and their Aviar (MR) or a random Aviar of theirs (QF) is distracted and cannot act.

Mind Force (MR) - Your Aviar can stimulate emotion - imprecise, but powerful. You may target one player; they lose their vote and cannot act or be acted on that cycle. No other Aviar may be used.

Messenger (MR) - Your Aviar can remember thoughts and ideas, and imprint them on others. You may target one player, and in the next cycle you may converse via PM.

Observant - Your Aviar sees the potential actions of others. You may target one player, and see who acted on them (MR), or who they acted on (QF).

Influential (QF) - With precise shifts of emotion, your Aviar can affect the minds of others. You may target one player; their vote is cancelled.

Subtle (QF) - The strange power of your Aviar seems to bend the fabric of space,  You may target one player; any action directed at you will instead affect that player. (This only applies once to kill abilities, and is not reset when the Aviar moves to another player.)

 

Caution:

The Pantheon jungle is dangerous, and even the most experienced trappers can't afford to lower their guard. Each player receives a word or phrase (their 'code'), unique to them. They must include this word or phrase in a post a minimum of twice a cycle (for both QF and MR cycles!). Any player who does not has not been cautious enough. The first time, their code will be strongly hinted at in the writeup. The second time, they will die.

If player A believes the code of player B is X, they may tell the GM ('Player B's code is X'). If correct, A steals all of B's Aviar (or as many as possible before reaching the cap). If incorrect, B steals one of A's Aviar. This does not count as your action, though only one guess may be made per cycle.

Edited February 21, 2015 by twelfthrootoftwo

[twelfthrootoftwo]

If nobody has comments, Eol and I would like to sign up to co-GM the MR version.

[phattemer]

I would rather have a MR, because a lot of those abilities seem like they'd be better in the long term. When will this start, and is there a sign-up yet?

[A Joe in the Bush]

At 12th root and Eol:

Game:

A MR game with combined Day and Night turns. Trappers v. Traders, with a bonus win condition for the Trapper with the most types of Aviar at the end of the game. Players get one vote and one action per cycle. Actions can include the Trader kill, Trapper special abilities, Aviar abilities (two can be used in one cycle) and giving Aviar to others.

Does giving an Avair count as a Avair Ability? And what is the Order of actions?

 

Trapper subclasses:

Some Trappers have special skills.

Are there any Safe roles?

 

Sori - Too young to have completed your training, you have nonetheless come to Amaji to fight the traders. You start the game knowing the identity of one non-Trader player.

Is Identity only Alignment or does it include Subclass?

 

Patji (active) - Not all the traders survived their first exposure to the Pantheon jungle. You took a harpoon gun from an unfortunate corpse before escaping the Father. You can make three kills over the game.

 

Is the Harpoon lootable if you're killed?

 

Skilled Trapper - The traps you set around your shelter are more subtle than most. You can survive one kill attempt other than the lynch.

One kill attempt total or one per cycle?

 

Influential (active) - You are known and respected among the Amaji trappers. You may change another player’s vote 5 times during the game.

What happens if multiple Influential Trappers target the same person?

 

Hidden (active) - Your shelter is well hidden. Each cycle, you may choose to hide; you lose your vote and become untargetable (immune to lynch and actions). Can’t be used two cycles in a row.

Can this be blocked by the Mind force Avair?

 

Aviar:

Players can start with more than one Aviar. Players can have a max of 5 Aviar; up to two can be used in the same cycle. A player can give any number of their Aviar to another player, and they can also be stolen (see below).

 

 

What happens if a Player wuth 5 Avair is given a sixth? Does that Avair die?

 

Mind Shield - You and your targeted player cannot be detected by Power Sensing Aviar. When this ability is activated, you and your target gain double caution in the next cycle (your target is informed of this).

 

What is Double Caution? Do you have to target another player? Can you target yourself?

 

Death Sight - Your Aviar warns about potential deaths. You may target one player; forewarned of death, they can survive one kill action that cycle (but not lynches).

 

Can this stack with Skilled Trapper? Allowing them to survive two attacks?

 

Power sensing - Your Aviar can sense and identify nearby Investiture. You may target one player, and learn the number of Aviar they possess and learn the nature of all the Aviar they possess.

 

What will they see if they target a trapper protected by Mind Shield or A Hidden Subclass?

 

Beautiful - Your Aviar seems to draw attention. You may target one player, and their Aviar are distracted and cannot act.

 

Will the player be told that they were role blocked?

 

Mind Force - Your Aviar can stimulate emotion - imprecise, but powerful. You may target one player; they lose their vote and cannot act or be acted on that cycle. No other Aviar may be used.

 

Does this include Avair Stealing?

 

 

Messenger - Your Aviar can remember thoughts and ideas, and imprint them on others. You may target one player, and in the next cycle you may converse via PM.

If you have two Messenger Birds, can you make two PM's? If you target the same player twice in a row, is a new PM started?

 

Observant - Your Aviar sees the potential actions of others. You may target one player, and see who acted on them.

If they are hidden, can you see who attempted to act on them?

 

Caution:

The Pantheon jungle is dangerous, and even the most experienced trappers can't afford to lower their guard. Each player receives a word or phrase (their 'code'), unique to them. They must include this word or phrase in a post a minimum of twice a cycle. Any player who does not has not been cautious enough. The first time, their code will be strongly hinted at in the writeup. The second time, they will die.

If player A believes the code of player B is X, they may tell the GM ('Player B's code is X'). If correct, A steals all of B's Aviar (or as many as possible before reaching the cap). If incorrect, B steals one of A's Aviar. This does not count as your action, though only one guess may be made per cycle

What happens if Multiple people guess correctly? What happens if A Guesses B's code at the same time as B guess C's code? Does Stealing count as an action?

Does saying the Code in White text count?

Edited March 1, 2015 by The Only Joe

[the winter system]

I have not had that much feedback on my Crazy Game and I want to make sure it isn't broken before waiting a long time on the GM list. Would anyone mind checking it out?

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5660-the-art-of-game-creation/page-22#entry207104

[A Joe in the Bush]

I made a goal for myself with this game: Top all that came before it in complexity. What do people think?

Inter-Planetary Complications (LG)

 

So there is three planets. What do you do when they start to interact? Messy, that is. Very messy, especially when each of the three planets are divided in two.

Three Main Factions and Six Subfactions

• Roshar

  • Knights Radiant

  • Parshendi

• Scadrial

  • Nobles

  • Skaa

• Nalthis

  • Hallandren

  • Pahn Khali

Victory Conditions

• The Good Subfactions have a goal to jointly outnumber the Evil Subfactions.

• Each main faction has a secondary goal to outnumber the other factions in the game

• Subfactions have a third goal to be the largest subfaction at the end of the game.

 

Every main faction loyalty is known, but not every known loyalty is correct. Each main faction gets their own doc, also the subfactions get their own docs. The spies for each subfaction get their own doc. The Evil Subfactions gets their own doc and a group kill but the only people who know which players are spies are spies. Each faction can lynch one player in their faction. The only way to kill someone from another planet is if you have a Role, Item, or NPC that lets you.

 

Roles*

Knight Radiant Roles:

Edgedancer- Protect one player from Roshar from all actions. Costs one Sphere. Edgedancers start with two Spheres. Gain one new sphere every two cycles if you post once in both cycles. See Roshar Items on Spheres. If you kill someone, you cannot use your abilities for one cycle.

Windrunner- Avoid one action targeted at you at the cost of one Sphere. You can use two spheres if you think you will be targeted twice. Start with three spheres. Gain one new sphere every two cycles if you post once in both cycles. If you kill someone, you cannot use your abilities for one cycle.

Squire- You have a Knight Radiant ability, however it costs you double the amount of Spheres to use. You gain a Sphere every cycle if you post in that cycle.

Parshendi Roles

Nimbleform- You are fast enough to avoid an attack, but you do not escape uninjured. You become Injured. See Statuses.

Warform- Attack one player at night. You both become Injured. See Statuses.

Dullform- You may find out the subfaction loyalty of player in the main faction of Roshar. If the player you targeted is a spy for another faction, then you will be informed they were protected against all actions.

Noble Roles

House Lord- People respect you for your wisdom.You may either have your vote count twice or change someone’s vote. You cannot change their vote if it is for you.

Misting- You may have one of these abilities as long as you have the metal

-Pewter: Injure your target from any faction. If you burn pewter twice in a row, you gain Pewter Drag. See Statuses. You gain three cycles’ worth of pewter if you spend a cycle purchasing from a Metallurgist.

-Iron: Protect your target. You gain three cycles’ worth of iron if you spend a cycle purchasing from a Metallurgist.

-Copper: Protect yourself from any seeking roles. You gain four cycles’ worth of copper if you spend a cycle purchasing from a Metallurgist.

-Atium: Predict any actions on yourself. You Injure anyone who tries to target you for a negative action. You gain one cycle’s worth of atium if you spend one turn purchasing from a Metallurgist. May buy a Kandra, see NPCs, with two pieces of atium.

Skaa Roles

Misting- You may have one of these abilities as long as you have the metal

-Pewter: Injure your target from any faction. If you burn pewter three times in a row, you gain Pewter Drag. See Statuses. You gain three cycles’ worth of pewter if you spend a cycle purchasing from a Metallurgist.

-Iron: Protect your target. You gain three cycles’ worth of iron if you spend a cycle purchasing from a Metallurgist.

-Copper: Protect yourself from any seeking roles. You gain four cycles’ worth of copper if you spend a cycle purchasing from a Metallurgist.

-Bronze: Find out a person’s subfaction if they use any type of Investure.

Informant- You know things and people know that. You may remove one vote from another player-any player-in exchange for overhearing any of their PMs.

Nalthis Roles (There are NOT distinct roles for each subfaction on Nalthis)

Awakener (any player may become an Awakener if they can Worldhop or live on Nalthis)-

-First Heightening (2): If any player with Breath, see Nalthis Items, attacks you, you are told that they had Breath. You see them coming and become Injured, see Statuses, if you would have died. If you would have become Injured, you still become Injured. Surviving an attack by an Awakener costs one Breath, making you a Drab.

-Second Heightening (3):  You can tell if any player in your faction has Breath, but not the number of Breath they have. If any player with Breath attacks you, you are told the amount of Breath they had, but only if they had less Breath than you. You become Injured. Surviving an attack by an Awakener costs one Breath, demoting you to First Heightening.

-Third Heightening(4): Ability to Awaken, see NPC for Awakened Objects to see costs and options. This ability is not lost if you Awaken. This ability is gained if someone reaches the Third Heightening through purchase of Breath, but only if that player is originally from Nalthis. You can tell if any player has Breath. You are told the amount of Breath they have. If anyone attacks you, you Awaken to protect yourself. If you have four Breaths you won’t die, but you become a Drab. See Statuses.

Inate Investure (1)- You may sell or buy Breath. If you sell your Breath to remove one vote, then you become a Drab. There must be a buyer in order to sell your Breath. You can buy Breath and be promoted to the First Heightening.

 

Secondary Role**

Worldhopper- You may travel to other factions and if your action would only affect people on your planet, you can now affect them. You have access to your home planet’s doc, but your real goal is to prevent the Evil Teams from winning. No secondary or third goal for you. May purchase any items on the planet they are currently on if the items are for sale.

 

*A spy can have any ability in their subfaction, but may not be a worldhopper.

**Anyone from any subfaction can be a worldhopper as long as they are not a spy.

 

Items

Each cycle, there is a certain number of items available for sale of curancy or votes. The votes are added onto your total for that cycle. The number of items change from cycle to cycle.

 

Roshar Items

Spheres: May be gained once per every other cycle for Parshendi, except dullform. Spheres may be used to buy other Roshar items.

Blackbane (5 Spheres or 4 Votes):  May be used to poison someone. The first turn you buy it, poisoning someone has no effect. If you use it one cycle after it Injures someone, see Statuses. If you use it two cycles later it kills someone. One time use only.

Spear (5 Spheres or 4 Votes): May be used to Injure someone every cycle. It will be revealed in the write up that you did so.

Precious Gemstones: You start with these and sell them for two Spheres in addition to your cycle’s worth of Spheres.

Spanreed (3 Spheres or 2 Votes): Two people start with these. If you buy one, then another person from any main faction (spanreeds know no bounds!) will be given one too. You may start a PM with the other player. You must include the GM.

Scadrial Items

Metals (1 Vote per amount): See Noble and Skaa Roles for what each amount is.

Atium (2 votes):   

Lerasium Alloy: Cannot be bought. Will randomly be given to one Worldhopper and they will have the choice to burn it or not. They have the choice to give it to another Worldhopper. Must be on Scadrial to gain metals to burn.

Dueling Cane (three votes): Only available for Nobles. Will Injure, see Statuses, another player unless they have a Dueling Cane as well or protection.

Nalthis Items:

Breath (1 vote per Breath): During the Night Cycle, any player can put a Breath up for sale in exchange for one less vote on them the next cycle. If they don’t get voted for the next cycle, they can chose to change someone else’s vote. During the Day Cycle their Breath is in the Nalthis Store. A worldhopper on Nalthis may buy one and gain the First Heightening. Anyone with no Heightening on Nalthis can buy and become the First Heightening. Anyone with the First may become the Second with a Breath. Anyone with the Second may become the Third.

Medicine (four votes): Heals the Sick.

Ichor Alcohol (1 vote for 1 cycle’s worth of it): Keeps your Lifeless in shape.

Statuses

Healthy- You are healthy. There are no disadvantages against you.

Injured- You attacked someone and they Injured you or you Injured them. Either way, you need to Sleep for a Cycle in order to become Healthy again. See Sleep. If you are Injured, then if you are attacked and Injured again you will die. If you attack anyone, you will be killed unless it is a Poisoning. You may use Pewter if you are a Thug to remove these effects, but if you end up Pewter Dragging then you will die. If you live on Nalthis and are Injured, you can sell your Breath to the Returned. It is enough to buy Medicine to heal you, however now you have to Sleep every other cycle.

Drab- You sold your Breath or used it to avoid dying. Now every Night cycle you need to Sleep or you will get Sick.

Sick- You must sleep for two cycles in a row or use Medicine on the first cycle to remove the effects. If you miss one cycle of sleep and don’t use medicine, you become sicker and trying to protect you has no effect. You fall die on the second cycle. It will be known you are Sick in the write up. You can burn Pewter if you are a Worldhopping Thug to avoid sleeping, but if you end up Pewter Dragging, you die.

Asleep- You may not use any actions or Items. If you were Asleep, then it will be revealed in the write up. If you are attacked and would be just Injured, you will be killed instead of Injured.

Pewter Drag- The moment you stop Pewter Dragging you fall Unconscious.

Unconscious- An effect of Pewter Dragging. You are basically Asleep for three cycles. It will be told in the write up then you fell Unconscious. If you are attacked, you die. Basically, avoid Pewter Dragging as it will probably lead to your death.

NPCs

Scadrial NPCs

Kandra: Kandras cost 2 atium to hire for one cycle only. They can worldhop.

-Kandras can find out the role and alignment of players.

-Kandras can manipulate a different planet’s vote by changing one vote to whatever you want.

-Kandras can take the body of a person after a lynch. The kandra will then be able to use that player’s action once. However, the next person to hire the kandra will be able to use it, not you.

 

Nalthis NPC

Returned: You can sell your Breath to a Returned in order to

-Remove a vote on you

-Buy Medicine

Awakener Commands:

-Strangle Things (costs 4 Breath): Kills one player from Nalthis. Works for one cycle. One cycle after use, you gain your Breath back.

-Protect me (cost 2 Breath): Protects you from attacks on Nalthis. Does not protect from Lynches, Steel, Kandra, or Atium. Works for one cycle. You get your Breath back the next.

-Hold things (costs 2 Breath) Lets you hold three Items instead of two. Once you draw back your Breath, you drop the extra Item.

Lifeless: They do the same as Awakened Commands, but you have to buy ichor alcohol every other turn and you lose the Breath permanently. You cannot withdraw the Breath. All Lifeless are permanent. If you would die in an attack, the Lifeless dies instead and you get Injured.

 

 

I think I've said this before, but this game is too complicated. You're attempting to run three games at the same time, with a few players who can hop between games at will. 

[the winter system]

It's going to be in a long while when there are a lot more players.

[Kasimir]

The other point is that the complication is making it hard for me to give feedback, TBH. There are so many interactions and possibilities that it's hard to be able to say something constructive about say, game balance. Still, I'll try again later.

[the winter system]

Yeah, maybe I shouldn't do it. It is rather complicatated.

[twelfthrootoftwo]

Thanks for the feedback, Joe!

Does giving an Avair count as a Avair Ability?

No. Giving Aviar is its own action, and cannot be performed while using any other action.
 

And what is the Order of actions?
Can this be blocked by the Mind force Avair?

Order of actions:
 
Roleblocks (in order: Hidden, Beautiful, Mind Force)
Messenger
Voting
Vote Change
Mind Shield
Power Sense
Death Sight
Observant
Kills (simultaneous: Trader, Patji, lynch)
Aviar movement
 
Beautiful can block Mind Force, and using Mind Force on a Hidden player will not make them vulnerable to a lynch. (The two effects are otherwise identical.)
 

Are there any Safe roles?

Sori, possibly. Since it's not useful at all to the traders, it could really go either way.
 

Is Identity only Alignment or does it include Subclass?

Alignment only, though this could change.
 

Is the Harpoon lootable if you're killed?

No. The Aviar held by a player when they die are also lost.
 

One kill attempt total or one per cycle?
Can this stack with Skilled Trapper? Allowing them to survive two attacks?

One total, as per Thugs. Skilled Trapper and Death Sight can stack; Death Sight blocks one attack, and the Trapper only loses their extra life that cycle if they are attacked twice.
 

What happens if multiple Influential Trappers target the same person?

It will work as per Rioters in a standard game. From memory, the last one to send in the order wins, but I could be wrong.
 

What happens if a Player wuth 5 Avair is given a sixth? Does that Avair die?

If an Aviar would move to someone with 5 Aviar, the move does not take place. If a player with 4 Aviar would steal/be given two or more, the Aviar received is chosen randomly; the others stay with their original owner. If a combination of stealing and giving would take a player over the cap, giving receives priority.
 

What is Double Caution? Do you have to target another player? Can you target yourself?

I wasn't very clear here. Double caution means you only need to use your code once in the next round.
You can target any of: nobody, yourself, another player, yourself and another player.
 

What will they see if they target a trapper protected by Mind Shield or A Hidden Subclass?
Will the player be told that they were role blocked?

If your ability is cancelled due to a roleblock (Hidden, Beautiful, Mind Force (on you or your target)) you will be informed. You won't know what kind of roleblock occurred, but it will be distinct from no result. You are only told about being roleblocked if it affected the actions you took - so someone using their Trapper ability would not be told about a player using Beautiful on them.
 

Does this include Avair Stealing?
Does Stealing count as an action?

No. Aviar stealing is not an action, and may not be blocked by any ability. (Giving, however, can be blocked.)
 

If you have two Messenger Birds, can you make two PM's? If you target the same player twice in a row, is a new PM started?

Yes. (You can't use any other Aviar, though.) And if the same player is targeted, a new PM is created. (This is just so recipients can't assume they were contacted again and post a message before the GM or Messenger owner can confirm.) Old PMs will remain visible.
 

If they are hidden, can you see who attempted to act on them?

Not in the current version. (Subject to change, though.)
 

What happens if Multiple people guess correctly? What happens if A Guesses B's code at the same time as B guess C's code?

All Aviar movements happen simultaneously, so in your scenario A would have B's old Aviar and B would have C's old Aviar.
The case of multiple correct guesses is more complex. Aviar are randomly distributed among the group to guess correctly with the fewest uses of that player's code. If A and B are guessing C's code, and C posts their code during the cycle:
[A guesses, B guesses, C posts]: C's Aviar are randomly distributed to A and B
[A guesses, C posts, B guesses]: A gets all of C's Aviar.
In both scenarios, if A or B would surpass the Aviar cap, the rest of C's Aviar go to the other.
 

Does saying the Code in White text count?

Maybe. If it does, it will be made extremely obvious in the rules. Ciphers/first letters of sentences/white text instead of spaces and similar are all forbidden, though.

 
Winter, the main issue I have with your game - before all the potential interactions - is that there's generally little incentive to interact with other worlds. Perhaps this is just how I play, but secondary and tertiary win conditions are generally nice bonuses that I won't go out of my way for. If I were a Villager in your game, I'd be focused entirely on what was happening on my world, possibly baiting worldhoppers into thinking we're in a worse position than we are. Interacting with off-world factions isn't worth the turn, unless the outcome of my world is essentially decided. Cleaning up the game by a) integrating the worlds more and b ) cutting down the roles (more interaction will only increase effective complexity) will make something that's more fun to play (and easier to GM!).
 

When will this start, and is there a sign-up yet?

Not for a while, given we're last on the list. Alvron is taking signups for Competing Realities right now, though.

[A Joe in the Bush]

It will work as per Rioters in a standard game. From memory, the last one to send in the order wins, but I could be wrong.

I believe all three votes were canceled in previous games.

[Gamma Fiend]

Just came up with this game before going to bed, think it has any merit? If so, sign me up to the QF GM List!
 

The Courts of Halladren

Standard Quick Fix set on Nalthis, a series of debates and trials to find traitors guilty of treason against the God King. The Returned have been set to task finding the Traitors amongst themselves.

24 hours cycles,, Public Votes, No Roles

Infiltrators get one kill per cycle, but do not get to message or contact each other.

There is a twist, however. Each player can sacrifice themselves each cycle to protect somebody else from death. If that person would die, you die in their place instead. Each cycle you would send in an Order of who to protect. Traitors can not make a kill and protect on the same cycle.

Should be interesting?

Edit: I suppose if multiple people protect the same person, random pick of who dies instead??
 

Edited March 3, 2015 by Gamma Fiend

[the winter system]

Interesting concept

[Gamma Fiend]

Interesting concept

 

Heh, I'll take that as a compliment.

The motivation behind the game is the idea to try and make a game as simple as possible, making it a throwback to the Original Mafia shell. But I wanted to give it a Sanderson Twist of course, so Nalthis presented the perfect opportunity for that with the Returned. To fit in that twist though, I had to nix all Roles, so there'd be no information that could be gained that can be absolutely trusted, forcing all players to think more critically, and not relying on power roles or anything else to pave the way to victory for them. And the Returned dying instead still would keep the kill counts the same for each cycle, not delaying the pace of the game at all.

I like the idea of all players having the option to use the Returned power too, because that should be rather interesting. In some games, when there are a lot of power roles, there are either a few vanillas, who can sometimes start to feel left out of the center of activity, that or it's Role Madness, and then it's just a storming tough time to balance. XD

Oh, and seeing what type of Returned characters people will come up with on here? I'm rather excited for it!

Game Clarification: Player A is being lynched. Player B protects Player A, and Player C protects Player B. Player C would die.( I rule it this way because it will be much more amusing, I think, as players try and scramble to figure out the chain of protection! XD)

[little wilson]

Game Clarification: Player A is being lynched. Player B protects Player A, and Player C protects Player B. Player C would die.( I rule it this way because it will be much more amusing, I think, as players try and scramble to figure out the chain of protection! XD)

I like this, but I see one potential problem. Player A protects Player C and you have a circle of protection. Who dies then?

[Gamma Fiend]

I like this, but I see one potential problem. Player A protects Player C and you have a circle of protection. Who dies then?

This would happen..... (Triple Oblivion Ring infinite loop, ends game in a Draw)

So yes, good point. So to prevent hard, nerf my previous ruling and make it so that players that players Sacrificing themselves can't be protected.

Good spot, Wilson!

[Kasimir]

This would happen..... (Triple Oblivion Ring infinite loop, ends game in a Draw)

So yes, good point. So to prevent hard, nerf my previous ruling and make it so that players that players Sacrificing themselves can't be protected.

Good spot, Wilson!

Pity you aren't just killing them all (But to be fair, I think you made a similar ruling on the Channeler/Wisdom. Or I'm misremembering the GM I asked this of.)

[A Joe in the Bush]

I like this, but I see one potential problem. Player A protects Player C and you have a circle of protection. Who dies then?

 

This would happen..... (Triple Oblivion Ring infinite loop, ends game in a Draw)

So yes, good point. So to prevent hard, nerf my previous ruling and make it so that players that players Sacrificing themselves can't be protected.

Good spot, Wilson!

 

Why not have them all die in that case?

[little wilson]

Why not have them all die in that case?

 

If the circle is big enough, it could kill over half the players in the game, or even everyone except the traitor attacking. While that could be hilarious, it also seems a little--well--overkill.

[A Joe in the Bush]

Well it is a quick game right?

[Kasimir]

Why not have them all die in that case?

Either great minds think alike, or fools seldom differ

 

If the circle is big enough, it could kill over half the players in the game, or even everyone except the traitor attacking. While that could be hilarious, it also seems a little--well--overkill.

The Bloodthirsty Goddess calls that overkill? Really? What did I just read, even? o.O

[little wilson]

The Bloodthirsty Goddess calls that overkill? Really? What did I just read, even? o.O

 

I'm trying to change my PR image, remember? And anyway, I do think it's overkill. While it's meant to be a QF, it's also supposed to be a game, and if there's a mechanic that can potentially wipe out every player but one, that's a problem. Even bartburg's Spiking a Koloss-blooded mechanic wasn't that bad, since that was just a rampage that killed half the people the person was in PM communication with (and I'm pretty sure that's the bloodiest built-in mechanic played thus far, even though it never came up in-play).

[Gamma Fiend]

Heh well thanks for all the feedback and discussion! And all for a disputed mechanic ruling!

While I did initially want to run it like I originally said, Wilson did point out it's inherent flaw (which I'd like to think I would have eventually noticed..... ) so it'd either be an infinite loop, or could potentially end the game in one night. (Highly unlikely of course, but no need to make things even bloodier!)
Even with people Protecting others from lynches or potential kills, it'd still keep the total of 2 deaths every cycle, so the pace of the game should be plenty quick enough!

[Lord Pifferdoo]

I'm not sure what anyone's incentive to protect people would be, if there aren't any roles.