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Define "divine."

 

If you mean a Return's breath, then I think it's perfectly balanced. If you mean any breath, then I think they should only learn the identity (possibly their allegiance as well) of the attacker and negating the attack. 

 

I don't actually expect you to answer (because I already know a bit about how you plan to set things up), but that is the distinction I would make between OP and not. 

The Returned's breath is called a "divine breath. I'm fairly certain nothing else is in normal terminology so yes that is what I meant :)

I spose it is possible that I could have been unaware of that and been just referring to breath in general as being divine.

 

I think I already confirmed that there would be Returned in the game.

Edited by lord Claincy Ffnord
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Meta, can you add me to the GM list. I'd like to do a Post-WoR kinda type game. Tell me what you think of these roles. I'm not so sure about some of them. (WoR spoilers)

Knights Radiant: Goal: to kill all the Voidbringers. Get to communicate on a Google Doc. Know who squires are.

-A Windrunner: Can choose two people who are pressured to vote together for the day or can protect one person.

-A Lightweaver: Can obscure their role and alignment or soulcast a person's vote

-A Bondsmith: Can choose two people a day to cause tension between and make them vote for different people or choose two people who have to vote together for the day.

-A Truthwatcher: Can discover one person's role and alignment per night. (Like a seeker) Or obscure their alignment and role. (Smoker)

Squires: Help KR with their goal. Know who KR are but don't get Doc access.

-Stormlight Squire: Can heal an attack at night using Stormlight.

-Regular Squires: No special powers.

Civilians: Goal: Kill all Voidbringers and KR.

-Highprince: Vote counts as two.

-Ardents: One can leave messages, one can soulcast a vote, and one can discover alignment.

-Regular citizens: no special powers.

Skybreakers: one group kill a night. Goal: to kill all KR. Doc Access.

-Nalan'Elin: Ultimately decides who the kill is.

-Skybreaker surgebinder: can negate someone's vote.

-A few Skybreaker regulars: no special powers.

Voidbringers: Goal: Kill all other players. Doc access.

-Dullforms: No special powers.

-Warform: Kill one person a night.

-Nimbleform: can find out one persons role per night.

-Mateform: ???? No ideas

-Stormform: Can kill a person during the day, but everyone knows.

Ok, I want to start this by noting that your ideas aren't bad and I think it would be cool to have a game in this setting. But most of this will be aimed at constructive criticism because that will be the most helpful I can be ;)

 

Seriously these aren't bad ideas though naturally some could do with tweaking. : )

These are, of course, just my opinions.

First up, 4 different teams with 17 different roles, this would be difficult to work without at least 20+ players, a 4-way struggle with some overlap with goals with the different groups could definitely be very interesting, but you will really need at least say, 23 players to include everything  there and still have an at all reasonable number of non-powered people.

 

I fee like you are trying too hard to force the powers to fit existing roles for a lot.

-Windrunner is great, the pressured voting could be very interesting though I do not know how often it would be used in place of the protecting.

-Lightweaver, obscuring makes perfect sense but only obscuring themselves seems a little odd as no one else can do that it makes it suddenly obvious that they are the lightweaver making the power pointless. Perhaps they could make themselves appear as whatever role they wanted? Soulcasting a vote works fine mechanically though it is like a more powerful rioter, it feels odd though unless in-game canon everyone is voting in writing or something.

-Bondsmith: Causing tension between people at first seems directly counter to the Bondsmiths second oath but also does seem to fit with Tension so idk. Mechanicaly this role seems ok.

-Truthwatcher: Seems fine.

 

Squrie: So they are like a thug?

 

Highprince: vote counts as two, no problems here. People like this tend to die off fast though. It would be interesting in a multi way struggle.

-Ardents: again soulcasting a vote feels weird but otherwise it's fine.

 

Sorry I'm out of time for now, I'll comment my other thoughts later.

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Does anybody have anything thoughts about my Roshar game? Do the roles seem balanced?

For the most part it seems pretty balanced- pretty complicated, like Claincy pointed out, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

One tweak I would make is to your Stormform- that actually seems worse than the warrior form, because when you kill someone everyone knows and then you get lynched. I would change it, or maybe add something like "...and you are immune to all votes," which would require someone to assassinate you in the night.

Edited by Herowannabe
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Ok, time for some more thoughts regarding the stormlight idea:

 

On to the skybreakers!

Nalan'Elin, reasonable enough. So he is basically a skybreaker regular who has final say on who they kill. Works fine mechanically and narratively.

Skybreaker surgebinder, it's fine mechanically though I don't see how it relates at all to the skybreakers surges though :P

 

Voidbringers:

dullform: sounds good :)

Warform: Simple, but perfectly fine.

Nimbleform: also fine

Mateform: I, um, yeah I dunno. Maybe like dullform but with a 10% chance of their vote not counting each day due to them getting distracted :P Or if 2 of them get bonded together for a day by a windrunner or bondsmith they can convert someone? I'm spitballing rather silly ideas here.

Stormform: I agree with Hero that thematically stormform really ought to be more powerful than warform. However I don't think making them immume to votes is a good idea, the instant all the skybreakers are dead, the voidbringers would win as the stormform could not die.

 

I'm certainly not one to speak against complicated systems that will be difficulty to balance.

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Mailliw75

So, I really get into the flavour of it too much, but... the only thing I have to say for the Voidbringers team would be that if might be kind of cool if you could work in a system where they get to change forms. I can't find any references for it right now, but I'm sure someone mentioned the idea of implementing Highstorms into a Roshar game... maybe that could make an interesting mechanic?

 

 

Every few days, allow the voidbringer team members to change their forms. Maybe work Stormform into that, so that the more Stormform there are, the more powerful their effect (whatever it is) becomes- with the flip side being that it's permanent and they can't change form after that?

I don't know, I'm mostly trying to replicate the feeling of Words. Being able to change yourself every few turns might help the Voidbringers stay hidden for longer, increasing paranoia for the game, then at the end they can make their big push by committing to Stormform, outing themselves, and we get... exactly what happened at the end of WoR

 

A Game of Shards

Investiture

Once per night-cycle, a Shard can Invest a player with their powers. A Shard can Invest any non-Shard. The effects of Investiture are detailed below.

 

Roles: 

ODIUM: Once per night, Odium can target a Shard for death. Unless otherwise disrupted, that Shard dies.

Investiture: Once per night, Odium can invest in a worldhopper. That player can kill someone during the same night phase.

 

HONOR: Once per night, Honor can target a Shard, and that Shard will be saved from death.

Investiture: Once per night, Honor can invest in a worldhopper. That player can Lash someone during the same night phase, saving them from death.

 

CULTIVATION: Once per day cycle, Cultivation can submit their vote to the Game Master as a Private Message. As long as Cultivation is alive, players can send private messages back and forth.

Investiture: Once per night, Cultivation can invest in a worldhopper. That player can cast their vote during the next day cycle in a Private message with the Game Master. This vote can be different from what they post in the thread, without needing to retract it.

 

PRESERVATION: Preservation can survive a single attack. If they are attacked again, they die.

Investiture: Once per night, Perservation can invest in a worldhopper. That player can survive one attack until the next night cycle. During this time, Preservation cannot survive their first attack.

 

DOMINION: Once during the day cycle, Domination can change a Shards vote.

Investiture: Once per night, Domination can invest in a worldhopper. That player can change another players vote during the next day cycle. During this time, Domination cannot change Shard Votes.

 

DEVOTION: Once during the day cycle, Devotion can message the Game Master with the name of a player. This power may be exercised at any point during the day cycle. If the player Devotion saves has the most votes at the end of the day cycle, they survive and no one is killed.

Investiture: Once per night, Devotion can invest in a worldhopper. During the next day cycle, this player is exempt as a target for lynching.

 

ENDOWMENT: Once during the cycle immediately following a Shard's Shattering, Endowment can message the Game Master to pick up the Shattered Shard. Endowment can only carry one other Shard at a time. They may make use of that Shards ability once at any point in the future. 

Investiture: Once per cycle, Endowment can Invest their Fallen Shard in a worldhopper. From this cycle on, the player is treated as being Invested by the relevant Shard, and may use the effect of it's Investiture for the remainder of the game.

 

RUIN: Once every day/night cycle, Ruin can target a Shard. During the day, a targeted Shards vote doesn’t count. During the night, a targeted Shard cannot use their ability, though they can still invest.

Investiture: Once per night, Ruin can invest in a worldhopper. This worldhopper cannot use any abilities they gained during this night cycle, and cannot vote during the day. Ruin may PM the game master to cast a worldhopper vote via proxy.

 

ODIUM’S CHAMPION: Once per night, Odium’s champion can target a worldhopper for death. Unless otherwise disrupted, that worldhopper dies.

 

HOID: If Hoid is invested by a Shard, he gain’s a copy of that Shards ability for the remainder of the game. Hoid may only use one of these powers for any day/night cycle.

Honor: If Hoid is invested by Honor, he can Lash players once during the night cycle for the remainder of the game, saving they from death.

Cultivation: If Hoid is invested by Cultivation, he can cast all his votes in Private Messages and communicate with any player at any time.

Preservation: If Hoid is invested by Preservation, he can survive a single attack for the remainder of the game.

Dominaton: If Hoid is invested by Domination, he can change one players vote during the day cycle.

Ruin: If Hoid is Invested by Ruin, he can prevent one player action during the night cycle.

Odium: If Hoid is invested by Odium, once a night he can target a player for death.

 

WORLDHOPPER: You aren't from this world. Perhaps you come from Yolen, Scadrial, Nalthis, Sel or Roshar. Maybe you were born on Threnody, or Ashyn. You might hail from Braize. Or are you one of those inhabitants of an unimportant Shardworld? Wherever it is, you have no abilities unless you're invested, but you can still vote during the day cycle.

 

Factions:

Voidbringers

Worldhoppers

17th Shard

 

Voidbringers: Odium, Odium's Champion, X number of Players

Worldhoppers: Hoid, X number of Worldhoppers

17th Shard: Shards, Remaining Worldhoppers.

 

Voidbringers Major Victory: "The Broken One Reigns"

All the Shards are Shattered

Hoid is killed

Worldhoppers/17th Shard are outnumbered.

 

Voidbringers Minor Victory: "The most loathsome, crafty and dangerous individual I had ever met"

One of the above is not met (eg: Worldhoppers/17th Shard are destroyed, Hoid is killed, but Odium is Shattered)

 

 

Worldhoppers Major Victory

Odium is Shattered

Odium's champion is killed

The 17th Shard/Voidbringers are outnumbered

 

Worldhoppers Minor Victory

One of the above conditions is not met (eg: The 17th Shard/Voidbringers are outnumbered, Odium's Champion is killed, but Odium is not Shattered)

 

 

17th Shard Major Victory

Odium is Shattered

Odium's Champion is killed

Hoid is killed

Voidbringers and Worldhoppers are outnumbered

 

17th Shard Minor Victory

One of the above conditions are not met (Odium is Shattered, Hoid is killed, the Champion is killed, but 17th Shard is outnumbered)

All of the Shards are Shattered

 

Thoughts?

 

EDIT I was too busy retyping, color-coding etcetera to check if anyone had posted after me. I'm going to edit them together,so if someone could delete the above post, that would be great.

Edited by Quiver
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Here's my replies in a spoiler so as not to take up a ton of room.

Ok, I want to start this by noting that your ideas aren't bad and I think it would be cool to have a game in this setting. But most of this will be aimed at constructive criticism because that will be the most helpful I can be ;)

Thanks

Seriously these aren't bad ideas though naturally some could do with tweaking. : )

These are, of course, just my opinions.

First up, 4 different teams with 17 different roles, this would be difficult to work without at least 20+ players, a 4-way struggle with some overlap with goals with the different groups could definitely be very interesting, but you will really need at least say, 23 players to include everything there and still have an at all reasonable number of non-powered people.

It is, but I think it could be fun with this much complexity.

-Lightweaver, obscuring makes perfect sense but only obscuring themselves seems a little odd as no one else can do that it makes it suddenly obvious that they are the lightweaver making the power pointless. Perhaps they could make themselves appear as whatever role they wanted?

I like that idea. I think I'll change that.
Soulcasting a vote works fine mechanically though it is like a more powerful rioter, it feels odd though unless in-game canon everyone is voting in writing or something.
it does feel weird, but I couldn't think of anything else to do with Soulcasting. Any ideas?

Squrie: So they are like a thug?

Yes, but I think I'm going to change it so that they only heal enough to last until the next night.

For the most part it seems pretty balanced- pretty complicated, like Claincy pointed out, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

One tweak I would make is to your Stormform- that actually seems worse than the warrior form, because when you kill someone everyone knows and then you get lynched. I would change it, or maybe add something like "...and you are immune to all votes," which would require someone to assassinate you in the night.

That's a valid point. I might do just that.

Ok, time for some more thoughts regarding the stormlight idea:

On to the skybreakers!

Nalan'Elin, reasonable enough. So he is basically a skybreaker regular who has final say on who they kill. Works fine mechanically and narratively.

Skybreaker surgebinder, it's fine mechanically though I don't see how it relates at all to the skybreakers surges though :P

The only thing I could think of is to use Division to destroy a vote.

Voidbringers:

dullform: sounds good :)

Warform: Simple, but perfectly fine.

Nimbleform: also fine

Mateform: I, um, yeah I dunno. Maybe like dullform but with a 10% chance of their vote not counting each day due to them getting distracted :P Or if 2 of them get bonded together for a day by a windrunner or bondsmith they can convert someone? I'm spitballing rather silly ideas here.

It's better than what I have. I couldn't think of anything.

Stormform: I agree with Hero that thematically stormform really ought to be more powerful than warform. However I don't think making them immume to votes is a good idea, the instant all the skybreakers are dead, the voidbringers would win as the stormform could not die.

Any ideas as to what to do with them? Maybe I'll do what quiver suggested, keeping the mechanic I have.

Mailliw73

So, I really get into the flavour of it too much, but... the only thing I have to say for the Voidbringers team would be that if might be kind of cool if you could work in a system where they get to change forms. I can't find any references for it right now, but I'm sure someone mentioned the idea of implementing Highstorms into a Roshar game... maybe that could make an interesting mechanic?

Every few days, allow the voidbringer team members to change their forms. Maybe work Stormform into that, so that the more Stormform there are, the more powerful their effect (whatever it is) becomes- with the flip side being that it's permanent and they can't change form after that?

I don't know, I'm mostly trying to replicate the feeling of Words. Being able to change yourself every few turns might help the Voidbringers stay hidden for longer, increasing paranoia for the game, then at the end they can make their big push by committing to Stormform, outing themselves, and we get... exactly what happened at the end of WoR

That would be interesting. I'll have to integrate the Highstorms for the KR too. I think I'll keep what I have, adding the Highstorms, where VBs get to choose whether or not to change form, if they do, I roll to see which one they get. What do you think? The closer to the end of the game, the higher chance of them getting Stormform?

Edited by Mailliw73
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Mailliw75

I can't find any references for it right now, but I'm sure someone mentioned the idea of implementing Highstorms into a Roshar game... maybe that could make an interesting mechanic?

That would have been me. ;)  In the version I was thinking of, pretty well all the roles with powers revolved around the Highstorms, which would come every three cycles.

 

@Maill:

I was planning on writing up a more in-depth review of the your game mechanic, but now that I have the time, most of what I was going to say has already been said. To reiterate, it looks fairly well balanced, especially with the new changes, and really the only thing I can say is that you're going to need a lot of people to make it work. If you decide to run the game, you might want to make the inclusion of some of your factions conditional upon the number of people who sign up. 

 

It will definitely make for a very interesting game, with that many factions and win conditions, and no PM's. I can tell you've tried to counterbalance that lack of communication with more people knowing who they can trust, and that could make things harder or easier, its difficult to say.

 

If you're still looking for ideas on soulcasting, I would suggest playing around with the things you can do in Shadesmar. In particular, I think getting an impression of someone's cognitive aspect could be considered akin to Seeking, if you want to take things in that direction.

 

It seems like a lot of the difficulty with putting together a Roshar game is the sheer number of ways you could work it. I mean, there are a half dozen different factions you could use, several settings, and probably hundreds of different roles. For example, a Windrunner could be a protecting role, a killing role, a power negating role,or a vote influencing role. Then there are ten Orders, Forms, Fabrials, the Old Magic, Shardblades and Shardeplate. With that much to choose from it's going to be complicated no matter what you do.

Edited by AonarFaileas
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It seems like a lot of the difficulty with putting together a Roshar game is the sheer number of ways you could work it. I mean, there are a half dozen different factions you could use, several settings, and probably hundreds of different roles. 

 

This is a big thing that I've noticed. You don't have to shoehorn everything from Roshar into one game. There's nothing that says that you have to have Radiants in your game. There's nothing that says you have to include Shardplate/blades. Maybe your group doesn't have access to fabrials. 

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, while this style of game has been around for awhile, I'd much rather conform the game to the world rather than making the world fit the game. Especially with Sanderson's work. He does such an amazing job of providing us such expansive and beautiful worlds to work from, it feels like a shame not to explore them. 

 

Let's have a game that takes place on Purelake. Let's have another that is placed within Alethi high society. Then another as a bridge crew. 

 

My point is that not every role will fit within one game. And they shouldn't. Build roles, explore ideas, but don't forget your setting when it comes time to actually put it into play. That's where you need to balance things. Once you know whether or not you're going to need Shardbearers, then you know that you need to build your game with them in mind. 

 

Don't try to cram everything into a single game. Hell, just look at my games. I barely touched on anything other than Allomancy! If you try to include too much, it'll just bog down your game into numbers and roles. Let it breathe. 

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I also wouldn't mind taking a crack at a Wheel of Time based Elimination game. There's tons of potential stuff there to use. (I'm just going to stick to the Mistborn type roles we have already established, or as much as possible, for now)

These are some I thought of for now...

Thief-Catcher: You smell the scent of evil and crime, and you hunt criminals down to their lairs. You can Follow somebodies trail once per night and find out their Role and Alignment.

Darkfriend: Shows up as a Villager, and is technically one, but knows who all of the Forsaken are, (or whoever the 'Mafia' faction are), and wins if they Win.

Chaneller: During the game you can Bond somebody to be your Warder. They are notified of it, and if the Chaneller dies, the Warder goes into a death-rage and can target and kill somebody the next night cycle and then die. Maybe give Chanellers some other power they can use until they Bond somebody, too.

Aiel: You are an Aiel. Forged and shaped by the Three Fold Land. You are not like the weak wetlanders. You are tougher than that. You can survive one attack per game. Your Role is revealed, but not your alignment.

Dream-walker. The world of Dreams are yours to freely roam. Once per night you can act as a messenger, and allow two people to send PMs until the next Night Cycle. (I dunno, Meta did say something about other GMs not usually letting such free access to PMs between everybody. But I dunno. Balance issues?

Wisdom: You dedicate your life to medicine and saving people. Once per night you can target somebody to Protect from death.

Wolfbrother: The Moon and the Pack call to you. Every night you must join your brothers and go hunting. Target somebody to kill every night.

Ta'averen: The Pattern Bends to your Will. During the Day Cycle you can negate somebodies vote, or negate yours and change their vote completely. (Tried doing some blend of Rioting/Soothing. Any ideas for balance?

Padan Fain: Tainted by the Corruption of Shadar Logoth, you are some new form of evil entirely. Once per night you can convert somebody to your new evil faction, and once you all outnumber the other remaining players, you win.

Lord: During the Day Cycle, the Villagers can elect somebody to be a Lord, and their vote counts as Two for the Lynching as long as they are Lord.

And then there's still tons of possible other stuff, too. What do you guys think?

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@Claincy Ffnord / Nalthis

on the Mercenary, this role is a very good idea, but do people know if a Divine breath has been used? if not, This Role would kill, Literally, all the Evil team.

Side note, I'm imagining the evil team as having been given Demonic breaths, like spikes you know? But the opposite of Divine breaths

 

@Quiver / Shardic

So Ruin can Vote for a Worldhopper? no matter what they say in the forum?

And will you be putting in a Mechanic for combining shards like Harmony?

Side note, Hoid's Team? The WorldHoppers? Why are they not the Hoidbringers?

 

@Mailliw73 / Post-WoR

As the others have said, this game is very complicated, but it would work if you hade 30 or so dedicated players, but the problem is that there are going to be inactives. there are just to many roles to not have several be unused.

Role wise, I'll finish WoR before commenting. Half way done with it.

 

@Gamma / WoT          

I've never actually read WoT, but the roles seem cool. They would work well in a game like this.

 

@ Every one

The Reason I'm using so many Spoiler tags is because I Finally learned how to use Spolier tags.

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What do you guys think now? Do the roles seem better? What about the estimated number of roles on the side? Do they seem balanced? I think there should be PM's. Which role do you think fits giving that capability best? I'm thinking, possibly an ardent. What do you think about the highstorms now?

Knights Radiant: Goal: to kill all the Voidbringers. Get to communicate on a Google Doc. Know who squires are.

(1)-A Windrunner: Can choose two people who are pressured to vote together for the day or can protect one person.

(1)-A Lightweaver: Can Lightweave their appearance to appear as any role they choose or soulcast a person's vote

(1)-A Bondsmith: Can choose two people a day to cause tension between and make them vote for different people or choose two people who have to vote together for the day.

(1)-A Truthwatcher: Can discover one person's role and alignment per night. (Like a seeker) Or appear as any role they choose.

Squires: Help KR with their goal. Know who KR are but don't get Doc access.

(1/2)-Stormlight Squire: Can heal an attack at night using Stormlight, but it only lasts until the next night, then it runs out and they die.

(2/3)-Regular Squires: No special powers.

Civilians: Goal: Kill all Voidbringers and KR.

(1/2)-Highprince: Vote counts as two.

(3)-Ardents: One can leave messages, one can soulcast a vote, and one can discover alignment.

(~7)-Regular citizens: no special powers.

Skybreakers: one group kill a night. Goal: to kill all KR. Doc Access.

(1)-Nalan'Elin: Ultimately decides who the kill is.

(1)-Skybreaker surgebinder: can use Division to negate someone's vote.

(2)-A few Skybreaker regulars: no special powers.

Voidbringers: Goal: Kill all other players. Doc access.

(2)-Dullforms: No special powers.

(2)-Warform: Kill one person a night.

(1)-Nimbleform: can find out one persons role per night.

(2)-Mateform: ???? No ideas

(0)-Stormform: Can kill a person during the day, but everyone knows.

Highstorms come every three cycles, giving surgebinders enough Stormlight for two uses. That can be used twice in one cycle or spread out. Every Highstorm, I will roll to see if the Voidbringers change form or not. It is possible to change form every Highstorm. Once a VB is in Stormform, though, they cannot change

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Even at a low count, you would need almost 30 people to have all the roles and as stated before, within that number, there is likely to be a few inactives as well. 

 

When ever you run a game with more than just the typical two factions, the need for more players arise. I'd suggest cutting down on the number of players within the side factions. Not only will that make the numbers a bit more likely, but that will give the Civilians a better chance. The major component of the game is your Civilian group and they shouldn't feel like they're just stuck in the middle of everyone else's wars. If you do that, then they'll be the first ones to go inactive on you.

 

I'd drop the Squires completely, as they feel tacked on a bit anyways and if you can't come up with anything for Mateform, don't worry about having them. 

 

The biggest group you need to boost is your Civilians. As I said, they make up the largest portion of your audience and they feel underwhelming. I'd focus more on them and make them feel like they stand a chance. They're the only group without Doc access, they don't have a lot of abilities and the Highprinces will become targets that they can't protect because they don't have a Lurcher-style ability. They have the most negatives of any group and you've left them high and dry. 

 

I'd go with 3-4 KR, 2 Skybreakers, 5 Voidbringers and the rest Civilians. That way, everyone stands a chance. 

 

 

Edit: I like the Highstorm mechanic. That works out pretty well to help reign in the KR and gives a needed boost to the Voidbringers (though I'd let them choose the form [perhaps by starting them all out in Dullform and making it so that only one person can hold a form at a time?] and be able to switch out of Stormform). 

Edited by Metacognition
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@Mailliw: My thoughts:

I really like the Highstorm mechanic, I wouldn't tweak anything about it.

 

As for PMs, what about giving a handful of random people Spanreeds? Here's how I would work Spanreeds: Every PM conversation must include at least one person with a Spanreed, but can have any number of people total. A player may give his spanreed to somebody else while he is alive, but if a player with a spanreed dies then the spanreed is lost.

 

I still think you need to do something to make Stormform more powerful than Warform. And actually, if you look at Werewolves of Millers Hollow, there are only a couple of roles that are able to kill off other players, and each of them only let you do so once. Giving one player the power to kill at night (or day) is a very powerful role. So I would suggest that you tweak the two forms as follows:

Warform: Players in Warform get one group kill per night

Stormform: Each player in Stormform may kill one person at day, but everyone knows (same as you have it now)

 

Also, it would be cool if players in stormform had some sort of mechanic for summoning highstorms... ;)

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If you want PM's, what you could do is randomly assign players Spanreeds. They could then choose one person to PM each cycle (Or Day/Night), allowing them to slowly relay information. If they die, the last person they communicated with would receive the fabrial. It would be much more limited than in previous games, but it could make for some very interesting dynamics.

 

The only kind of strange role I can see is Stormform, as it still feels a little underpowered. As I'm thinking about it though, it could be very useful late-game, cutting down the time the Voidbringers need considerably. I might however add the stipulation that the vote of a player killed during the day will not count towards the total. That way, using it would be a little more beneficial to the Voidbringers.

 

Edit: And then Hero comes by and ninja's my whole post. :P Great minds think alike and all that, I guess.

Edited by AonarFaileas
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I had an idea for an interesting future Roshar game, not mine of course one with just Shardblades. Shardplate, Halfshards. Full shardbearers, and fabrials. I think that would be interesting.

,

Meta, thanks. I think I will get rid of the Squires, they are kind of just added in. I'll see what I do with those proportions you have. Yeah, Mateform's not really working for me.

Hero, Spanreeds are a good idea, maybe I'll give those all to civilians to give them a little boost.

I like the storm and war form ideas. Maybe if 2+ players in stormform save up six total Stormlight uses. They can call a Highstorm whenever they like.

Edit: Aonar, yeah I think I'll definitely add in Spanreeds, though I haven't decided how. Oh and I forgot to put in, each Highstorm, a VB can choose not to change and each time they do that. It increases their chances for stormform when they do decide to change.

Edited by Mailliw73
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How is this now?

Knights Radiant: Goal: to kill all the Voidbringers. Get to communicate on a Google Doc.

(1)-A Windrunner: Can choose two people who are pressured to vote together for the day or can protect one person.

(1)-A Lightweaver: Can Lightweave their appearance to appear as any role they choose or soulcast a person's vote

(1)-A Bondsmith: Can choose two people a day to cause tension between and make them vote for different people or choose two people who have to vote together for the day. Gets a Spanreed.

(1)-A Truthwatcher: Can discover one person's role and alignment per night. (Like a seeker) Or appear as any role they choose.

Civilians: Goal: Kill all Voidbringers and KR.

(2)-Highprince: Vote counts as two.

(3)-Ardents: One can leave messages, one can soulcast a vote, and one can discover alignment.

(1/2)-Assassin: can kill one person at night.

(1/2)-Guards: Choose one person to save every cycle.

(~7)-Regular citizens: no special powers. Can get Spanreeds.

Skybreakers: one group kill a night. Goal: to kill all KR. Can always PM each other.

(1)-Nalan'Elin: Ultimately decides who the kill is. Must be the one to tell me who the kill is.

(1)-Skybreaker surgebinder: can use Division to negate someone's vote.

Voidbringers: Goal: Kill all other players. Doc access.

(2)-Dullforms: No special powers.

(2)-Warform: One group kill a night.

(1)-Nimbleform: can find out one persons role per night. Gets a Spanreed.

(0)-Stormform: Can kill a person during the day, but everyone knows. (this 0 is for at the beginning. )

Highstorms: Highstorms come every three cycles, giving surgebinders enough Stormlight for two uses. That can be used twice in one cycle or spread out. Every Highstorm, I will roll to see if the Voidbringers change form or not. It is possible to change form every Highstorm. Once a VB is in Stormform, though, they cannot change. (Note: VB can choose not to try to change. Each time that happens, the next Highstorm their chances of getting SF increase.)

Spanreeds: Every PM conversation must include at least one person with a Spanreed, but can have any number of people total. A player may give his spanreed to somebody else while he is alive, but if a player with a spanreed dies then the spanreed is lost.

Edited by Mailliw73
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Looks good! You used my ideas! :)

One thing I just noticed: as it stands now it's impossible for the citizens to win, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

If they kill off all the KR first then the Skybreakers win.

If they kill off all the Voidbringers first then the KR win.

Likewise for the Voidbringers- it's very difficult for them to win without the Skybreakers winning first.

Even if I'm misreading it, some clarification is needed.

Also, as I think about spanreeds some more, we ought to make it simply: "Only players with spanreeds can start PMs." It makes it a bit easier and clearer to manage.

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Yeah, that would have to be at least a ~30 person game, and with all the over-powered Roles, any regular people will lose interest really fast. They seem to have a severe handicap, if not a flat out impossibility of winning. I just think there might be too many cross factions going on, and while it would be really fun to have all of that going on in a game, and the RP that goes with it, with every additional role there are balance issues that come into play. I definitely would love to play in some Post-WoR setting though. With all the new information, there's tons of possibilities.

I'm thinking about when I get to GM I might try my Wheel of Time one, that could be a fun variant. I think I have enough base roles, and would only need a few tweaks for balance.

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Mailliw,

 

My two cents.  One of the things that works well with these games is everyone looks the same and hides their oles (or lack thereof). Voidbringers will stick out like dogs proverbials.   They have no means of protection and have to kill a nominal 25 players (in the right order) to win - they've got no chance. Maybe make Dullform a two strike kill and/or have their task to knock off the KR and Skybreakers? 

 

Similarly, maybe have the civillians goal to take out the Skybreakers and Voidbringers.

Edited by el_warko
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I'm trying to think of a scenario so that in RP, it would make sense for people not to know who the Voidbringers are.

Oh yeah, I noticed that the goals conflict. What do you guys think if I take out the Skybreakers and just have civilians, KR, and Voidbringers? The civilians goal would be to kill all the VB's and at least half of the KR. The VB's would be to outnumber the rest of the people. The KR's is to keep at least most of their members alive while the VBs are all killed. Does that seem more balanced?

I think the civilians have the numbers and enough powers to stand a chance now. If the VBs play it right, they can kill one a night and later on, one at night and up to four during the day. Maybe I'll give them a bit of protection, but they have a lot of killing power.

Yes, about the Spanreeds, I was thinking that the holder would have to start it, I just neglected to put that in.

Edited by Mailliw73
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Alethi High Court Vs. Diagram Game.

 

Minor WoR spoilers in this Game.

The High Court (Civilians)

 

(1)King - Vote Counts as 2.

(7) HighPrince - No special Items

(1) HighPrince with ShardBlade - One Kill per Night

(1) HighPrince with ShardPlate -  Can Survive one attack. (Like a thug)

(1) HighPrince Full Shardbearer - Can Survive one attack, and Kill one per night.

(5) Princelings - No Special Items

(2) Princeling with Money - Can Change a High Prince's Vote.

(2/3) Princeling with Span reed - Can start a Conversation with as many people as they want.

(2) Princeling with Fabial - finds Alignment and Items.

(1) Princeling with SBlade

(1) Princeling with SPlate

(1) Princeling with Spies Contract. - Hides himself and One other.

 

Only the King and High Princes can Vote. Princeling Votes count as .5 Votes

 

The Diagram (Evil) Get Doc Access,One group kill per night.

(3-4)Diagram - any of the Above, Except King

(1)Taravangian - Any of the Above, except King. Has the Oathstone. One kill per night. Ignores Shardplate.

 

One Lynch per Day.

 

Goals:

High Court - Kill the Diagram

Diagram - Become the King.

 

Items:

If someone with Items is Lynched, all their Items go to the King, who can Give them away. If you kill someone, you get all their Items. But you can only use one set per Cycle.

Example; You have the Full plate, you kill someone with a Spanreed. You can Either talk to PM People that Cycle, or be protected and Kill people.

        Items List: ShardBlade - Kill someone

                           ShardPlate - Survive one attack

                           Spanreed - Can PM People

                           Money Bags - Can Change someone's Vote once. The Money goes to that person.

                           Fabrial - Finds the Alignment and Items of a Person, and tells wether or not they're an Heir.

                           Contract - Smoking basiclly

                           Oathstone - One Kill per night, ignores Shardplate

 

Heirs:

To Declare an Heir, you just PM the Game master with their name. You do not have to tell your Heir, or the General Public. The King can only declare a Highprince to be his/her Heir. The Highprinces can only declare a Princling to be their Heir. When someone dies, their Heir takes their Role, but not their Items. If 2 people declare the Same person to be their Heir, then the Heir only gets one of their jobs. if somone dies without declaring an Heir, the Highprincs and King Vote on who is the New High Prince or King.

NOTE: If you do Not have an Heir, you May not Vote.

Claw your way up the Political Ladder, killing people who trust you, take their Jobs, And Kill the Diagram.

 

Any Thoughts?

 

EDIT1: Good Idea Aonar, I Put it in.

Edited by The Only Joe
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@Joe

It looks like it could work, and seems like a neat system. The only thing that might not be good are the roles that can't vote. Rather than having the Princelings being entirely unable to vote, maybe give them a 0.5? That way their votes, while less powerful than the other roles', still have an effect.

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Here is the Nalthis rules for discussion. As I stated in the other thread I probably won't be able to post over the weekend.

 

Nalthis Elimination Rules

 

Days and nights will both last for 48 hours. From previous games an extension is frequently asked for anyway. During the night cycle all order must be in by 36 hours in at which point the returned will be told who is going to die and have 12 hours to decide if they want to act. The 48 hour cycle should also help stop Claincy from going crazy ;) As I have a fair bit on outside of this and there are going to be many, many night orders to process.

 

Breath

Breath is treated in discrete increments, drab, normal, 1st heightening, 2nd heightening etc. The amount between them is all considered the same. So if a normal person gives their breath to someone of the 2nd heightening they will reach the 3rd heightening. A simplification, but a neccesary one.

 

Idrians will all start with 1 breath, normal. (except for any returned among them). Hallandrens will vary. No-one will start off a drab but some Hallandrens will start off at normal, others at the first heightening, others at the third, and maybe 1 or 2 at the fifth. It depends on the number of players. Pahn Kahl will start as normal by default though a couple may start with more depending on player numbers.

 

You can elect to give someone your breath by pming the Narrator saying who. It will be noted in the next writeup that someone did so, but not who. The recipient will be informed who by pm who gave it to them and how much. Giving someone your breath prevents you from using it for any other purpose during that cycle. You can only ever take one action per night cycle. (Except at the 10th heightening.)

You cannot give part of your breath to someone, it's all or nothing.

 

Drabs: A drab has a 1 in 5 chance of their vote not counting due to being ill at the time the voting happened or simple lack of will. They can still vote, but the tally will not be increased for their vote. The chance will be rolled at the start of the day but the drab will not know if their vote will count or not.

 

Heightenings

Achieving any of the heightenings gives you access to a new power that you can use. Using any of these powers consumes your night action.

 

1st Heightening [Aura recognition]

As your night action you can send a pm to the Narrator asking if a specific player has the 4th heightening or higher.

 

2nd Heightening [perfect pitch]

As long as at least 1 person has the second heightening pm's are allowed, passive ability.

 

3rd Heightening [perfect colour recognition]

As your night action you can send a pm to the Narrator asking what heightening a specific player is at between: drab, normal, 1-3, 4-6, 7-10.

 

4th Heightening [perfect life sense]

As your night action you can ask the narrator to tell you about any powers that were used on you in the last cycle.

 

5th Heightening [agelessness and poison resistance etc.]

If you did not use your powers for anything else this cycle you can survive one attack, this only works once however.

 

6th Heightening [instinctive awakening]

Could do with some input here.

 

7th Heightening [breath recognition]

You can ask the narrator the types of awakening or heightening abilities used that day.

 

8th Heightening [Command breaking]

The first time you are attacked by the lifeless the attack fails. Could do with input.

 

9th Heightening [Greater awakening (stone and steel)]

[audible command]

Able to awaken steel. See awakening.

 

10th Heightening [Colour distortion]

[Perfect invocation]

Everyone knows you have reached this heightening, but you can make 2 uses of breath per night. You still cannot awaken and then draw the same breath back in one night. If you awaken something and that drops you below the tenth heightening you cannot use another action that night.

 

Awakening

You can use some of your breath as your night action to awaken something. This immediately drops your heightening level and anyone who detects your aura that night will see the new aura. You can later spend your night action to recover the lost breath.

 

2 breaths. Create a lifeless (pre single breath era): defends 1 person for a night then joins the other lifeless. You cannot recover this breath.

 

3 breaths. Awakened rope, command "Hold things", Negates the target's vote in the coming day cycle.

 

4 breaths. Create a strawman. Spy on someone, detects if they:-do nothing, recover breath, awaken, command, kill, or use a special role. Existing strawmen can be commanded to do something as their night action instead of recovering the breath.

 

5 breaths. Awakened rope, command "Hold things when thrown", prevents the target from taking any action that night cycle.

 

8 breaths. Create an awakened sword. If you kill someone with an awakened sword it will go in the writeup that that person was killed that way. Every time you use the sword it consumes a breath, if you become drab from this you die. If someone kills you they take the sword. A Pahn Kahl using the sword does not get the option to steal the targets persons breath, like when using lifeless.

 

Other roles

 

Pahn kahl. The Pahn Kahl get access to a google doc to conspire in. Each night they can choose 1 of themselves to kill a target. They can also choose to steal that targets breath before killing them.

 

Returned. Returned can be of any faction. Returned can either be hidden or revealed and can switch between the two at will. If they are hidden they gain no bonuses from their returned status except that they are told who is going to die 12 hours before the night cycle ends, the returned can then choose to give up their life/divine breath to save one of the people who is going to die. That will also heal any injuries the person has taken. If the returned has extra breath the target will receive them.

 

When revealed they have all the normal benefits of someone with the 5th heightening and register as such. They still have their save action, but everyone knows they are returned. Their votes also count for double.

 

Returned also die at the end of the fifth night unless they are given a breath to consume.

 

Mercenary. [idrian only] The mercenary can choose someone to protect each night cycle. If that person is attacked the mercenary kills the attacker but is wounded in the process and is unable to protect others again unless healed by a divine breath.

 

Spy. [idrian only] The spy is essentially a seeker. They can find out one person's alignment each night (Idrian/Pahn Kahl/Hallendren). They also get to know if the person is an awakener/normal/drab.

 

Idrian Agent. [idrian only] The Idrian agent has no special powers except that they appear to be from Hallendren but win if the Idrian's do. They will appear as Idrian if the spy spies on them.

 

Hallendren Agent. [Hallendren only] The Hallendren agent has no special powers except that they appear to be from Idris but win if the Hallendren's do. They will appear as Hallendren if the spy spies on them.

 

Lifeless command. [Hallendren only] Not so much a role as a specific command. For example "There's always another secret". One player will start off knowing this command. They can send the Narrator a pm with the command and a target to kill as their action for the night cycle. They can tell anyone the command, however, if two people command the lifeless in the same night the lifeless spend the night running back and forwards and do not kill anyone.

 

Example

Quote

 

There's always another secret.

Kill Claincy.

 

Anyone who knows the command can send the narrator a pm with the command and with instructions to the lifeless to accept a new command. If anyone does this the old command no longer works and the lifeless ignore any other commands given that night. If two players try to change the command on the same night nothing changes.

 

Example

Quote

 

There's always another secret.

Accept new command:
Brandon is awesome!

 

So the lifeless can still be used past the death of the original person who knew the commands, but be careful, tell the wrong person and the Pahn Kahl could gain control of them.

 

Well, that took a while to write up : P

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