Eagle of the Forest Path Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Hello everyone, I've been reworking the story structure of Jet Black Medium for a while, trying to incorporate the feedback you gave on the chapters I'd previously submitted (we'll see if I did it right), and thought it was time to start submitting again, so here's the prologue. Things I feel require special mention here: -The Fury Priest's speech patterns. I wanted her to speak oddly, with sentence structure that was technically correct but rather convoluted (it came out a bit more Yoda than I like). There are reasons for her choosing to speak like that, but it's not essential to the story. So do you feel it's more of a plus to the story or a bother while reading? -I won't list all of the suggestions I received the first time around, but I'd like to mention the mask. The advice was to describe it in more detail. I went the other way, "less is more" and all that. I think it leaves the reader more free to imagine what the scary mask looks like. I'd like to hear what your opinions are. Things I feel do NOT need to be discussed: -Prologues. I choose to call this chapter a prologue, knowing that the publishing industry currently has an issue with them. The events described here take place before the point in time I consider to be the start of the story, with characters that are not in the main cast. To me this means that this is a prologue, and not chapter 1. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the read and look forward to your thoughts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Overall My memory says this is much better than the original. Right now though it sort of lacks urgency. I don't really care why the protag is asking to curse this other person, and I'm not too fearful or impressed with the surroundings. I think the storyline is there, it just now needs some tweaking and fill in. Good to see you back! As I go - Exaggerated male anatomy. Heh. Although usually graffiti has a fair number of breasts involved, so I have some questions about this world already - crab and 'scuttled' next to each other makes me think the man is a crab - page 2: end of this first interlude and I'm not particularly engaged. The first few paragraphs had me, but I don't have any real emotional buy in right now. Hooded man walking through alleys and seeing other hooded figure is slow - reveal at end of page two really tells me more about the society than I think you might have intended - The priest is indeed very Yoda-speaking - To the point where they had to cover up anything that could give away even as little as their age. Awkward. Had to read three times and I'm still not certain what you're trying to say - the paper imagery I really like - I think it needs to end on a stronger note. The end doesn't make me want to turn the page and dive into the first chapter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamon Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 I agree with kaisa that is is better than the first time around. I'll also agree it lacks some tension. Because we don't know who Burrus is, what he's done to the man, and why the man needs to do this so urgently, it's hard to care about the characters. The description and atmosphere is good, and I think that saves it. The Fury Priest sounds a lot like Yoda--enough so it takes me out a little. You could probably tone it back a bit. I remember being much more entranced with the first few chapters of this rather than this one. The world is interesting, and I really like the paper and ink magic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) Hey Eagle, Overall, I think I'm 50/50 on this piece. I liked the ink painting magic. (Just checking, is this similar to Sanderson's magic system in Rithmatist? I haven't read it yet; it's on my list.) I like the idea that the characters' identities are hidden behind masks; I'm hoping that will create some interesting situations for the characters. I also liked how the prologue jumped right into the scene and didn't drag. I struggled sometimes with your phrasing. Examples: - "dividing the corridor into two pieces" - maybe it's the word "pieces" that made this read awkwardly. - "A large turtle whose creator had chosen to depict in an unlikely purple told the man to follow" - that's a mouthful - "the desire for secrecy of the person he was about to meet" - awkward - I can't imagine "a stuttering breath" exactly - "His hand cramped shut" - clamped, probably Ultimately, I know that a character has enlisted a priest(ess) to do some bad things to another character--all this is good--but I don't know much about these characters' situations and motives to be invested at this point. I think if I had some more clues about the conflict between the MC and Burrus Clupean then I would be a lot more into this. This definitely holds promise for me and I like some of the elements of this world you have introduced. I'd like to keep reading this. Edited November 4, 2016 by Coop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path Posted November 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 (edited) Hey there, all. I held off on replying to your comments until the end of the week to lessen the risk of me justifying/defending myself. On 10/31/2016 at 3:35 PM, Ernei said: I don't see any purpose for the *. It doesn't seem as if any time passed between the two fragments, so why putting it there? And then you start with "he", which I guess relates directly to the hooded person from before? Generally, avoid starting a new fragment with a pronoun in third person, limited or not. The reader is prepared that you might change the POV when you put a * in. Yeah, I didn't think of that. I don't really know why I put the * in there; I must have had a reason at the time, right? I think I felt that the getting to the meeting and the meeting itself were two separate scenes (and thus needed to be separated), but if it's confusing I'll leave out the section break. On 10/31/2016 at 3:35 PM, Ernei said: p.3 "The question was delivered in a croak, obviously faked and, surprisingly, female." - "voice" missing, I guess. I... don't really get what you mean here. I think it's grammatically correct: both "faked" and "female" can (and do) refer to "croak". Just wondering, where would you put "voice"? Glad you liked it, Ernei. I wasn't too sure about part of the summoning sequence myself, the other half (with the moving paper) is the only part in the chapter that I actually reused from the first version. No need to remember how the Dhé is named, I barely remember myself most of the time (though if you're talking about the word Dhé itself, I might have a problem) Thank you for the feedback. * * * On 11/1/2016 at 1:59 AM, kaisa said: Overall My memory says this is much better than the original. Right now though it sort of lacks urgency. I don't really care why the protag is asking to curse this other person, and I'm not too fearful or impressed with the surroundings. I think the storyline is there, it just now needs some tweaking and fill in. Good to see you back! Thanks! Glad to be back. I get you on the urgency part, but I don't know how to fix it yet. I'll probably go over it again countless times for the tweaking and filling in, but right now, I'm going to focus on getting the entire story on paper. On 11/1/2016 at 1:59 AM, kaisa said: - crab and 'scuttled' next to each other makes me think the man is a crab Semi-intentional: I wanted a bottom-feeder vibe for him. I like when people notice things like this, to me, they're kind of like jokes. On 11/1/2016 at 1:59 AM, kaisa said: - reveal at end of page two really tells me more about the society than I think you might have intended Probably. The society is somewhat gender-biased, but I think not as much as you might assume. It's not discussed directly in the story, so I'll say it here: Women have access to higher education (which is an important aspect of Thalan society) and aren't (legally) barred from any occupation. One of my protagonists is a female police detective, for example. The culture is more classist than sexist, really. On 11/1/2016 at 1:59 AM, kaisa said: - To the point where they had to cover up anything that could give away even as little as their age. Awkward. Had to read three times and I'm still not certain what you're trying to say Gotcha, I'll try to fix that. The message here is supposed to be that Fury Priests are paranoid that anyone could find out who they were. They have to cover up anything that could reveal.. well... anything about themselves. If they think a client guessing their approximate age could give away their real identity, they have to cover up anything that's a clue to how old they are. It's also the reason she talks funny... On 11/1/2016 at 1:59 AM, kaisa said: - I think it needs to end on a stronger note. The end doesn't make me want to turn the page and dive into the first chapter I'll consider that. Thanks for the feedback, Kaisa. * * * On 11/3/2016 at 6:59 PM, Mandamon said: I agree with kaisa that is is better than the first time around. I'll also agree it lacks some tension. Because we don't know who Burrus is, what he's done to the man, and why the man needs to do this so urgently, it's hard to care about the characters. The description and atmosphere is good, and I think that saves it. The Fury Priest sounds a lot like Yoda--enough so it takes me out a little. You could probably tone it back a bit. I remember being much more entranced with the first few chapters of this rather than this one. The world is interesting, and I really like the paper and ink magic. Burrus will make his appearance in chapter... 3, I think. I'm finding it hard to find a balance, I don't want to give away too much too soon, or I'll spoil one of my revelations. I'm planning that the readers can work it out for themselves, but the prologue would be insanely soon for that. On the other hand, it does drop the involvement. I'll try to tone back the Yoda. I'll have to experiment with it for a while, so it's not too much, but she doesn't talk normally, either. I hope I can hang onto the atmosphere after the prologue. I'm glad you like the magic system, since I'm rather proud of it myself. I'm just sorry I don't have an opportunity to get into the mechanics behind it. Thank you for the feedback, Mandamon. * * * On 11/4/2016 at 4:15 AM, Coop said: Overall, I think I'm 50/50 on this piece. I liked the ink painting magic. (Just checking, is this similar to Sanderson's magic system in Rithmatist? I haven't read it yet; it's on my list.) I like the idea that the characters' identities are hidden behind masks; I'm hoping that will create some interesting situations for the characters. I also liked how the prologue jumped right into the scene and didn't drag. Not at all similar to the Rithmatist (at least, IMO). The mask thing is only in the prologue, though, I hope you're not too disappointed? In media res, mate! On 11/4/2016 at 4:15 AM, Coop said: I struggled sometimes with your phrasing. Examples: - "dividing the corridor into two pieces" - maybe it's the word "pieces" that made this read awkwardly. - "A large turtle whose creator had chosen to depict in an unlikely purple told the man to follow" - that's a mouthful - "the desire for secrecy of the person he was about to meet" - awkward - I can't imagine "a stuttering breath" exactly - "His hand cramped shut" - clamped, probably -Would "parts" be better? -How about "A large turtle - whose creator had chosen to depict in an unlikely purple - told the man to follow"? Though the grammar is a bit more problematic like that. I'll work on it. -A bit awkward, yeah. -"Halting", "shivering", "hesitant", ... ? I know what I mean, but I'm not sure how to put it on paper. -Maybe. To me, "cramped shut" sounds more involuntary than "clamped". I'll keep this on ice for a while, look at it fresh later. For the investment (or would "investiture" be more appropriate here? ) in the characters, I'll refer to earlier in this post. Clues will follow. I'm happy you want to read more, you won't be disappointed (meaning I'll submit more chapters, I can't guarantee you won't be disappointed about what's in them.) Thank you for the feedback, Coop. * * * I guess that's it for now. Stay tuned for more Jet Black Medium, same Jet Black time, same Jet Black station. Eagle. Edited November 6, 2016 by Eagle of the Forest Path 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Hello Eagle! A bit late on this, but I'll add my comments anyway. I'm also reading with fresh eyes. Overall I think this is an interesting chapter. I liked it. I don’t really have a specific reason to keep reading - I’m not that curious about what Burrus did to deserve punishment, since I don’t know anything about him or the man looking to punish him - but the world is fascinating and I’m hooked in kind of a general way. Since you told us that this is a prologue and the main story starts elsewhere, I’ll say that I’m happy to jump forward and explore this world from a different character’s angle. Your magic system is really intriguing; for example, these fury priests/priestesses are forbidden and have to hide, but yet the Dhe they summon are common, so there must be a lot of them. It’s an interesting tension. I related with your character’s feelings as well, and I liked how he felt a variety of different things throughout the chapter while still seeming consistent. The only place I didn’t believe his feelings was at the very end. I've read the Rhithmatist (@Coop, it's a fun read). From what you show us of your magic system in this chapter, it immediately reminds me of the Rhithmatist, but not in a way that feels derivative. I assume there will be more revealed about your system later that will distinguish it from Sanderson's, since you've already given hints along those lines (for example, yours is summoning based). There are a number of places where you use awkward phrasing. Other people mentioned some, and I pulled out some other examples below. Finally, about the mask. Since you didn't describe it much, I assumed it wasn't that big of a deal. Not sure if that's the correct assumption, but that's what I came away with. I wasn't particularly scared by it - I just decided it was practical, for hiding their identity and all, and kind of moved on. More specific feedback: First paragraph reactions: My first question was, "Are we inside or outside?" I kind of feel like I'm floating - not sure where I am - until you get to the graffiti. I'd appreciate a more concrete sense of setting in the first sentence or two. But I'm horrible at opening lines, so do as I say, not as I do! I was also thrown out by the turtle sentence. I liked the fix that you suggested above, but I'll mention that the other thing that throws me off about the sentence is the structure of the turtle "telling him" to follow a certain route, since the turtle isn't sentient. At this point, so early in a fantasy story, I don't actually know that the graffiti isn't sentient, so I spend a half-second wondering if the turtle actually moved or something. the man scuttled into the passageway... I had the same reaction as kaisa about thinking of him as a crab. It sounds like you meant it that way! That notion had barely swum its way to the top of his mind when he noticed his torch was not the only light source in the hall he’d turned into. Awkward. In the light coming from the open door the masked man... I thought he was just wearing a hood, not a mask. With a heavy heart and heavier limbs, the man stepped up to the door. I hadn't realized there was a door. I think I'm missing something about the setting. I keep getting surprised by your details. His gaze leapt from object to horrid object... This whole section from here to the end of the paragraph is really well done. The entire conversation on page 3 is very interesting. I like the tension between what the priestess is ready to do and what the MC wants her to do. He counted out the smaller coins that were all he had to add up to three Quarters Awkward ...the priestess screeched at him. The screeching seems really off. If she's changing her tone of voice, I'd like to know that before I read her words. But going from a croak to a screech would be really surprising, and it's odd to me that the MC doesn't react other than to say, "Oops, she made a mistake." Is he assuming that her natural voice is loud and screechy? I think my reaction in his situation - in a creepy secret place, with a powerful revenge-fulfilling secret priestess who's been relatively quiet this whole time - would be more on the level of a heart attack! ...the man felt he finally understood why the Dhé agreed to this. I love your description of the writing and the magic happening. Great details, and great emotional reactions from the MC. I just don't share his particular revelation here at the end of the paragraph. Under his scarf, he smiled. I'm not sure I believe he's happy... He seemed unsure of himself at enough points during the exchange that I expect his feelings to be pretty complicated, rather than positive enough to get him to smile. Again, overall I really liked this chapter and I'm very interested in your world! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Thanks, Hobbit, you bring up a lot of good points, which I'll have to think about at some length. Quickly about the setting/magic: Dhé get summoned by priests (called Dhéonomists) and fulfil a lot of different functions (there's one that turns cider into liquor, for example). Some Dhéonomists occasionally moonlight as Fury Priests, summoning Dhé that cause mental or physical harm to people, and that's the illegal part. I'll have to mention the "legal priests" somewhere around that part of the prologue. I guess there are some similarities to Rithmatics, the ten cent description of my system is actually "creating semi-sentient paper golems through ink drawings," which might be like 3D chalklings, in a weird way, maybe. There's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes though, so to speak. (*mumble grumble* Rithmatics! *mutter mutter* nothing like it! *grumble mumble*) I'm kind of rushed right now, but I'll go through the specific feedback later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 20 hours ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said: (*mumble grumble* Rithmatics! *mutter mutter* nothing like it! *grumble mumble*) If Brandon keeps up his pace, he'll take all the cool magic systems... But just to reiterate, I think you've already shown the magic system to be separate enough from Brandon's that it's not a problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Hey Eagle, Super-late catch up, Take 2. Sorry about the delay, but I hope that there are comments here that are useful. “doorway dividing the corridor into two pieces” – to me, pieces refers to a small things, an object, possibly something that can be held in one’s hand, as opposed to say parts or sections; “whose creator had chosen to depict it in an unlikely purple”; I’m reasonably engaged by the first section, there’s suspense and mystery, and I want to know what’s going on; I think ‘cramped’ is an involuntary action, unlike, say, clutched; Why does she speak backwards? She sounds kind of like Yoda; “Let not distract you the thoughts of the wrong he did” – Yeah, this shtick is bugging me. It seems like an affectation of the writer rather than the character, but I think the real problem is the similarity to Yoda’s mode of speech. If you need your priest to speak funny, I would suggest digging deeper to find a mode that is further away from Yoda, something more original. “She continued more briskly, “Until the third new” – this is the start of her sentence, therefore caps. I feel that this is much tighter than the first version that I read, which I seem to remember struggling with. <consults records> I see that was back in June 2016. Nice job here of knocking the language into shape. There was very little grammatically that I got snagged on, since the language of the priest is of course a style choice. I also enjoyed the description of her drawing. I got a sense of the fantastical from it, which was great. I felt that you were showing not telling about the energy, the grace and ‘otherness’ of the activity. I thought that worked well. Finally, I was happier with the sense and feeling of the main character. I got his nervousness, his lingering doubt as to whether he should go through with it. His smile at the end was a nice touch and, actually, a good spur for the reader to keep reading, I thought. Not a cliff-hanger, or a mystery, but a hint that he has another dimension than the rather nervous, possibly petty, individual. All-in-all, good job, good update and I look forward to reading more. <R> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path Posted January 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Oh wow! I did not expect any more feedback on this, but any is appreciated. Noted for revision, I'll probably go with "sections". I think adding an "it" there would actually be creating a grammatical error instead of correcting one. Yay! Thanks! The action is meant to be involuntary, or at least unconscious, will ponder on this some more. The idea behind the Yoda-speak was to disguise her natural speech patterns to avoid recognition, but it's not coming across like that, so it's more distracting than anything else, I'll probably have her talking normal next revision. If I decide to keep an odd speech pattern, I'll try to get it away from Yoda, but it's harder than it sounds... OK Oh yay, this is the first "shown, not told" verdict I've gotten. That's exactly what the smile at the end is supposed to tell, thanks for noticing . And thanks for the feedback in general Robinski. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 12 hours ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said: Oh wow! I did not expect any more feedback on this - Yeah, that is how far behind I am!! I think adding an "it" there would actually be creating a grammatical error instead of correcting one. - My difficulty is that I feel depict needs an object in this arrangement, but doesn't have one. If I decide to keep an odd speech pattern, I'll try to get it away from Yoda, but it's harder than it sounds... - I appreciate that. Maybe if I had got her reason, it might have helped. If-ay ou-yay oused-yay ig-pay Allomantic tin-Lay, it-ay ight-may ee-bay etter-bay. Because it would be more obvious that she was doing it on purpose, and it wasn't her normal mode of speech. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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