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Sanderson Elimination: Questions & Answers and Game Meta Discussion


Metacognition

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Though I get the impression how much work depends on the game. If your game doesn't make use of PM groups or google docs, and if it only requires a small number of action PM's, it will have a lot less work to run than a game that does. But there are usually spectators (and at least one mod who won't be playing) who can offer advice. You can also get someone to co-GM stuff, so they can help share the load.

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Good point. BUT 13 docs, man, that's too much.

EDIT: My game that I'm talking about. 

Yeah. So suggestion for new GM's. Avoid making and then moderating 13 docs by yourself for your game. You will be very busy. Though, if that's the sort of thing you enjoy, then feel free.

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Though I get the impression how much work depends on the game. If your game doesn't make use of PM groups or google docs, and if it only requires a small number of action PM's, it will have a lot less work to run than a game that does. But there are usually spectators (and at least one mod who won't be playing) who can offer advice. You can also get someone to co-GM stuff, so they can help share the load.

 

Whether the game is incredibly complex or it's a very basic game, GMing still takes a lot of time and effort. For even the most basic game, you'll likely have to spend a couple hours a turn answering questions, making sure that everything remains civil, recording votes or actions, doing the write ups (which, btw, everyone should appreciate. The GMs could just say, "So-and-So died. Day __ Begins. You have 48 hours."), and many other small things. And that's for a game that goes smoothly! If a problem comes up or there's a problem with balance or a hundred other possibilities, then they've got to put in even more time to making sure the game continues running! 

 

My point is, the GMs work very hard to create and run these games; a lot more than I think you're giving them credit for. If it wasn't for people putting in the time and effort (something that they don't have to do, btw) to GM, we wouldn't be able to play these games at all! These people are sacrificing their personal time in their own lives so that the rest of us can have fun. They deserve our appreciation, I think. 

 

Now that isn't to say that it's all work and drudgery. GMing a game can be incredibly satisfying as well. Sure, you have to play accountant and mediator for parts of it, but watching as other people try to figure out your game is just a ton of fun! 

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<useful advice and points I agree with 100%>

 

Meta is completely right - No matter the size or scale of the game, GMing will take time off you. Even the simplest games can have situations crop up which need your attention, whether that's a niche case of the game rules, or the players misunderstanding things. You have to be prepared to be checking your PMs and the thread often enough to catch questions before the writeup, because by then, the answer is practically useless. Not to mention the double-checking needed for the lynches, which we've seen many GMs (myself included), make mistakes with.

 

The bulk of the work comes from setting up, sure. The game takes a while to make, even if it's mostly based on previous ideas. Then there's the time it takes to balance the game, something which is incredibly difficult to get right. It's not just a question of checking whether the Roles are 'normal', and whether the allocations you're planning on are balanced, but whether things work together in a fair manner, and to make sure that the game isn't broken in a fundamental way. Well, that's part of the reason we have thread, to check it for balancing issues. I always say that fun is paramount when it comes to designing a game, but an unbalanced game is probably not fun for either side. Regarding docs, most of the time is spent in setting up and ensuring they're distributed right. There's nothing that says you have to be a constant presence on any or all of them. Just get questions sent to you via PM, and you never have to look at them again (other than, perhaps, checking briefly that none of the copy/paste rules etc. are being broken).

 

So, what about within the game? Well, in my opinion this is a little simpler, because you are kind of just following your own, predetermined rules. It's time-consuming, sure. But this part's only as convoluted as your game rules. The bulk of my time between Cycles is spent doing the write-up. This will usually take me two hours (sometimes a little more, if last-minute changes occur), but I'm aware I write more for my write-ups than most people do (and as Meta says, we should always be thankful that GMs do this at all, as it adds a lot to the setting and scene, in my opinion, particularly if there is a lack of roleplaying going on). The changeover will depend on how many players there are, but for about 20 players, it will usually take a minimum of an hour to note down all the changes and send out PMs.

 

But that's not including the time spent within the Cycles themselves. It's when your job is less difficult, yes, but just look at how many clarifications some games have had. It may not seem like much, a post here and there, but it all adds up. It can also be a little irritating, if the clarification is already in the rules, for example. But as GM, your job is to be patient with people and explain things they don't understand or that aren't covered by the rules.

 

So if it's that much work, why GM? Because, as Meta says, it's incredibly satisfying to run a game. I like knowing that people are enjoying something I created, and I like watching people discover how things work, even if the rules are all there for all to see beforehand. I encourage everyone to try their hand at GMing if they can, even if the list is somewhat long right now, but you should be aware of three things, in my opinion, before you sign up.

  1. You need a fun and balanced set of rules to run it with. An unfun game won't leave people feeling satisfied, and an unbalanced game will lead to frustration on both ends.
  2. You need to be aware of the time it takes to run a game. Set yourself aside two hours each Cycle at a time when you know you're free (preferably the same time each day) to do the changeover.
  3. You should start off simple, perhaps adding a new rule to an existing set, rather than trying something incredibly complex. Complex games are much harder to balance, and much harder to run.

Don't feel too daunted by this. We're all here to help you develop rules, and we do have a rather excellent trio of moderators who are able to help if any issues do crop up while the game is being played. That's what they're there for :P. In addition to that, there are also a lot of players with GMing experience now who can also help, if any of them are spectating. We're a friendly community, so don't hesitate to ask for help if you think it is needed.

Edited by Wyrmhero
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Where is everyone getting the Cool SE Banners in their Signature?

That's what I came here for. Darned nonresponse.

That would actually be me. I haven't stepped forward for obvious reasons: see, RL, GMing, etcetera. I'm doing so now because the M'Hael has amazing graphics design skills, has agreed to team up with me, and we've decided that two people (any further volunteers welcome!) would get the task done faster :)

 

Stay posted! We'll inform y'all once our thread in the Creator's Corner is up and start taking requests.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Can I sign up on the LG and QF lists again? I'm happy to switch with other players, but I'd like to get a spot on the list reserved. My first LG will be a rerun of LG5 and I think the second will be a rerun of LG4. I'm planning on basically being the Rerun GM and replaying the games that were either broken or very fun.

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  • 1 month later...

So I just noticed something, and wanted to comment on it, but didn't have any place where my comment would fit. So I thought, "Hey, why don't we have an off-topic thread? We've got a pretty awesome little sub-community of Sanderfans here, we should have a place where we can just chat about whatever."

 

Hence this thread. If the moderators/admins don't like the idea of this, they are welcome to merge it with another thread or delete it or lock it or whatever.

 

Anyway, the thing I just noticed, is that my Elantris game (LG12) holds the record of being the largest game as judged by length of the main thread! 66 Pages and 1,301 replies! It's currently only the second most viewed game (29,108 views) after LG2: The Devil's Den (38,480 views)

 

I wouldn't be surprised if MR8 ends up passing my game up though. It's only 4 cycles in and already its at 31 pages.

 

QF1: Jeskeri Mysteries holds the record for being the smallest game- 6 pages and 118 replies. It is currently also the least-viewed game, with 4,037 views.

 

 

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Did you know that in Brazil more cars run on ethanol than on gas? [/offtopic]

I did not know that. Interesting.w

 

(Also, this is the off topic thread, so you don't need to say "/offtopic". You also don't need to color your text blue or red or green or whatever if you don't want to. You can if you want to though, nobody is stopping you. white text is also welcome!

Edited by Herowannabe
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Doe anyone know how to unignore peoples signatures? I got rid of some for easier viewing thinking that I could get them back later but I am not sure how. Anyone know anything about that?

1. Click on your name at the top of the Screen

post-9328-0-28638200-1440911568_thumb.pn

 

2. Click on 'Manage Ignore Prefs'

post-9328-0-39384200-1440911551_thumb.pn

 

3. Either click the Red 'Hidden' Button next to their username, or Click the black 'Remove' Button. Either one will restore that User's signature.

post-9328-0-21343300-1440911563_thumb.pn

Edited by The Only Joe
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Merged Hero's thread to here for now. The General Rules thread is a great place for these kinds of observations to begin with, as well as questions about the games in general, but beyond that, there are other factors that need to be taken into account. I'd go into detail, but it's late here and even I need to sleep sometime! :P Wilson should be on later to explain everything a lot better than I likely ever could anyways. :)

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So for people wondering, the reason we merged the Off Topic thread is because the SE games are very much still a part of the 17th Shard community as a whole, and while we do have our own little community here, this sub-forum is specifically for the games. There are other forums on the site, from General Discussion to Tech Support, that are well-equipped to handle any of the questions/comments that don't relate to SE.

 

This isn't to say that we haven't noticed a niche that needs to be filled. Meta, Gamma, and I are currently working on a thread for SE-related art (parodies and the like), and that would fulfill some of what could be talked about in an SE Off Topic thread. The only other thing that I can think of that's SE-related that isn't already handled by one of the other pinned threads is current game discussion, and that's off limits.

 

I can understand wanting to bond with the people you're playing against/with. I love the community we have here, and the friends and camaraderie that's sprung up. However, this sub-forum isn't build for non game discussion. It's built for the games. The General Discussion forum, though, is a great place to get to know fellow Sharders, including those who play the games. If we tried to tackle all of that in this small forum, not only would it be cluttered with non SE-related threads, but it could also create a sort of clique mentality that would make it hard for people to want to try out the games in the future. Because of this, it's even more important that we keep this sub-forum strictly SE-related and go elsewhere on 17 Shard for non SE-related subjects.

 

Thank you for your understanding and for being generally awesome. You all are great. :)

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Also, for anybody who does have any questions or awesome suggestions of the like for the SE Community or us Mods, feel free to shoot us a message at any time, and we're always more than willing to work with everybody! This is also a good time for us to get back around to the AMA: SE Mod Edition thread, as that is a great place for such things, and is a great example of the Elimination Community spreading out and utilizing other parts of the forum as is!

Thanks again, and now we'll let you get back to your organized chaos!

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