DrakeMarshmallow

Vin was a Pewter Savant

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This is something that occurred to me a few years ago, when I first read through the epigraphs about spook being a tin savant.

 

Vin burned pewter pretty much constantly. She often went without sleep because she was burning pewter and didn't feel the fatigue.

Furthermore, she has burned pewter instinctively for as long as she can remember.

I also suspect that learning to pewter drag might be something that approaches savantism...

And Ham also notes that Vin was stronger than him when both of them were burning pewter.

 

I've always figured that Vin must have been a pewter savant, for all the above reasons. In my time on these forums, however, I have never heard anyone mention this idea. So here I open up discussion and speculation on the matter.

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At first I thought you may have right...but Vin didn't show any sign of a "pain immunity" (effect of the pewter savantism)

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I think there's some WoB that says that most people who burned enough pewter to potentially reach savantism, died long before they achieved it. So I doubt Vin was a pewter savant.

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I like this theory, assuming it's possible for Mistborn to have the same Savant effects as a Misting.

2 minutes ago, Yata said:

At first I thought you may have right...but Vin didn't show any sign of a "pain immunity" (effect of the pewter savantism)

If I remember correctly, isn't she occasionally described as (the equivalent of) shrugging off wounds and hits that would have broken someone twice her size?  This could be the equivalent of pain immunity, just not explicitly stated.

Again, I don't remember the exact wording, so that may not work, but I think it was vague enough to qualify.  (Unless by pain immunity you mean immunity from ALL pain.  If that's the case then maybe Mistborn just don't get as extreme Savantism as Mistings? (Similar to I believe your recent WoB about the bonus effects of combining magics not as present for Mistborns/Fullborns.))

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It is hard to determine whether Vin exhibited savant levels of pain immunity, I think.

You see, normal pewter bestows some level of pain immunity.

It is difficult to know for sure if Vin's levels of pain resistance were savant level or normal pewter allomancer level.

Pain is hard to judge by because it is something an individual experiences. Strength, however, can be objectively evaluated. That is why I found it telling that Vin was stronger than Ham, despite the fact that without magic, Ham would be stronger.

 

In regard to the death rate of pewter savants... Before her ascension, I would speculate that Vin was perhaps close to death at some times. She certainly pushed herself harder than a non-allomancer could survive...

 

I don't mean to say that Vin had to have been a savant, but it always seemed like a significant possibility to me.

Edited by Drake Marshall
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58 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

And Ham also notes that Vin was stronger than him when both of them were burning pewter.

That has to do with Vin's size and how pewter works. Pewter gives you X level of strength, regardless of your size/weight. Since Vin is much smaller than Ham, she can jump higher (less weight, same strength).

Also, don't quote me on that, there are more knowledgeable people on here that could answer this better.

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I think that if Vin were a savant, Sazed/Harmony would have mentioned it when he healed her after she died, because he healed Spook from being a tin savant. 

Edited by Figberts
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This is something I've always wondered as well. I think there are arguments both for and against.

For:

- Vin burnt it regularly over the course of several years. Spook became a savant within a year by flaring his metal. Even had Vin not been flaring pewter, she would have had enough time to become a savant, assuming she was inclined to.

- All the Allomancers in the crew during the original trilogy are better than the average in a certain metal or metals. Kelsier had steel and iron, Breeze had brass, Marsh had bronze. Vin's seems to be brass (look at how Kelsier initially gets fooled and Marsh actually falls for it for a while after she learns from Breeze) and pewter. Maybe steel and iron too, but she was never as precise as Kelsier or Zane. 

- Near-death. She survived an Inquisitor's axe, numerous beatings in her childhood, being thrown around by the Lord Ruler, assassination attempts. All of which are arguably enough to turn her into a savant.

- Duralumin. I suspect this may help accelerate savantism by expending the power in a massive burst akin to a mega-flare. How many times did we see Vin use it to strengthen her body while she steelpushed an army away from her?

 

Against: 

- You would have thought Sazed might have mentioned it. However, she did choose to go Beyond, so there was perhaps, no point in bringing it up.

- Pewter savants are notoriously hard to create, according to Sazed. This may have been because he got a good look at Vin's spiritweb and saw that she was no savant despite knowing how often she burnt it.

- She didn't seem to flare pewter all that often beyond duralumin, and in bursts (as Ham taught her) and it seems like flaring is what widens the cracks in one's Spiritweb.

- This is specifically for the OP, but pewter-dragging does not indicate savantism. Vin was definitely not one the first time she tried it. Kelsier wasn't an expert in pewter too, and still knew how to use it. Pewter-dragging is more of a technique than something only acquirable by savants.

 

My verdict would be that she was possibly quite close to reaching it, but never quite got past the finish line. However, I do think Marsh and Clubs were savants.

 

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1 hour ago, Vindicator said:

pewter-dragging does not indicate savantism. Vin was definitely not one the first time she tried it. Kelsier wasn't an expert in pewter too, and still knew how to use it. Pewter-dragging is more of a technique than something only acquirable by savants.

I don't believe that pewter dragging is savantism exactly... But it feels like building up the ability to pewter drag is somehow altering one's spirit web a bit. I would hypothesize that learning to pewter drag might let you approach savantism to a small degree, but would definitely not constitute being a savant in of itself.

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7 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

I don't believe that pewter dragging is savantism exactly... But it feels like building up the ability to pewter drag is somehow altering one's spirit web a bit. I would hypothesize that learning to pewter drag might let you approach savantism to a small degree, but would definitely not constitute being a savant in of itself.

I think that pewter-dragging is a technique that anyone with pewter could use, but to do it for extended durations and distances would require practice. That would mean that all savants can pewter-drag, but not all pewter-draggers are savants.

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Her allomantic strength when it comes to pewter might just be stronger than Ham tbh.

I mean Elend has a much more powerful zinc/brass(could literally soothe around 10-30k koloss alone ofc with duralumin he's no Rashek with reverse compounding/savantism), his steel pushing is pretty ridiculous and his pewter notably could match against the biggest Koloss in a straight up parrying no problem. But he's definitely far from a savant in all his metals. But he is definitely stronger than anybody when it comes to allomancy.

Vin is probably on her way but still not savant. I mean with spook he became savant since he's been burning tin for a long time and what really pushed him to become savant was after Clubs death where he wasn't really ever turning Tin off like ever. He just kept burning Tin.

Edited by goody153
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We have to remember a couple of facts:

- Vin used Pewter as a child. But she had so little metal avaliable (consumed within the food) to be quite nothing for a average allomancer's pov (to say in her first vial of pewter there is probably more metal than the one she consumed in all her previous years together).

- Vin is a bit powerful than the average Allomancer of her time (not of a great margin, but a bit). This and the fact that pewter give a constant "power up" may give to the people who see her...the feel of "super strenght".

I explain myself better:

If Ham is a 10 in physical strenght, Vin would be 5-6...then both became to burn pewter to gain extra power. Pewter it's states to give the power of two men. This mean that would give a +10 to the average misting. This put Ham to 20 and Vin to 16...You may notice how the gap between the two is relative smaller now. Add to this that probably Vin is a bit stronger as Allomancer (to say Ham gains +10 and Vin gains +11-12) and the gap is still less.

This is more true in the case of Flaring (who quite double the pewter effect)...Ham would be a 30 and Vin would be a 30 too.

If it's true than a little body where the extra power is infused gain a more concentrate power up...we may easy see how Vin would be pair or better than Ham (without considerate the Ham's skill in years of fight)

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On 10/6/2016 at 2:05 PM, Yata said:

At first I thought you may have right...but Vin didn't show any sign of a "pain immunity" (effect of the pewter savantism)

Personally, I don't think she is a savant. But, because she is a Mistborn she can burn pewter and tin. Since tin enhances senses, including pain, it could kind've equalize. Being a pewter savant makes her completely immune to pain and tin lets her feel some pain back. Like I said, I don't think this is true because I don't think Vin is a savant, but it could be possible.

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