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Odium has "plans" for Harmony?

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So in the Waygate Foundation Q&A during which Brandon wrote a story (it's fun to watch):

 

Odium is weaker than Harmony, but has more of a "warrior" mind. He is, however, scared of Harmony.

He has "plans" for Harmony, and he is very much aware of Harmony's power.

 

Could this possibly come into play in the 2nd mistborn series? 3rd? Judging from the state of Scadrial at the moment, with Harmony in play, it would be interesting to see what sort of interraction would happen if Odium came into things.

Just thought I'd post these tidbits here, since I thought it was rather interesting.

 

Also, (slightly off topic) he was asked, "Who is the most powerful non-shard entity in the Cosmere?" and he replied, "Hoid", confirming Hoid is definitely not a Shard. At this point.

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My guess is it would be the third trilogy. From what I've read, the second trilogy sounds like a crime drama, with SWAT Mistings and Mistborn serial killers. NCIS: Scadrial, if you will.

 

Maybe Odium would have a role to play there, but it seems unlikely. Then again, I also have concerns over Odium being the Cosmere-wide Big Bad, when the Stormlight Archives seems set to have him be the Final Boss.

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I think odium a plan for Harmony will in bavadin or some other evil sharder as backup--or perhaps as canon fodder to wear Harmony down

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I think odium a plan for Harmony will in bavadin or some other evil sharder as backup--or perhaps as canon fodder to wear Harmony down

 

I wonder.

 

Harmony is actually in a very, very unique position in the Cosmere.

 

As far as we know, Harmony is the only Shard to be made up of two; it's possible to interpret 'Harmony is the most powerful Shard in the Cosmere' as meaning he outranks another 2+ Shard, but it seems unlikely.

 

Unlike Ati, Sazed matches his Intent fairly well. I don't remember what information we have on Tanavast, and I'm sure we have nothing on the rest, so as is, Sazed is the good Rayse.

 

Also unlike Rayse, Ati or the rest, Sazed wasn't present at the Shattering and hasn't held his Shard for as long. That might put him at a bit of a disadvantage- in his book in Hero of Ages he mentions he's going to have research who or what Adonalsium is- but it might be an advantage as well. If someone was going to break the unspoken rules and laws governing how the force of Creation works, it will probably be the one who had no contact or understanding that those rules existed. Plus, given the relatively short period of time Sazed has held Harmony, I'm inclined to believe it hasn't become an overriding directive for him.

 

So maybe that's what Odium is planning? Doing nothing, until Harmony becomes more important to Sazed than anything else, and then making his move.

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So maybe that's what Odium is planning? Doing nothing, until Harmony becomes more important to Sazed than anything else, and then making his move.

Waiting for the right timing seems like a decent plan.

Although given how the intend effects Saced he might start thinking that Odiums actions create to much "disharmony" in the Cosmere, which of course means that Harmony would have to turn more Cosmere oriented in the first place but a lot of things can happen with enough time. So only waiting might not be the smartest move on Odiums part.

Ryse might set up a situation where Harmony would feel the need to sacrifice itself for the greater good.

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It seems like the struggle between Shards is carried out by proxies, not direct conflict. If Odium has a plan for dealing with Harmony, it would probably involve setting up proxies on Scadrial to start dealing some blows to the Shard indirectly. Although there's nothing to indicate a Shard can't directly engage another Shard. 

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It seems like the struggle between Shards is carried out by proxies, not direct conflict. If Odium has a plan for dealing with Harmony, it would probably involve setting up proxies on Scadrial to start dealing some blows to the Shard indirectly. Although there's nothing to indicate a Shard can't directly engage another Shard. 

Actally we know that they can. Thats how Vin kamikazed Ruin in the end of HoA. Though you have a point, it seems very unlikely that Ryse could take on both Devotion and Domination more or less at the same time. Do we know any details on how he shattered them?

 

Talking about proxies, could Odium in some way be involved in the conflict with the Southeners on Scardrial or the Sect that Milles was a part of?

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You know, I remember a theory put forth by someone, can't remember who so I can't give credit, sorry--but they theorized Odium either compels a Shard to invest heavily in a world, or takes advantage of that fact, and then strikes when the Shard is "weaker".

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If I recall Vin Didn't so much attack as use her presence to create a fatal feed back on them both.

 

I have always felt that odium got Devotion and Domination to attack each other instead of attacking each individually. 

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My guess is it would be the third trilogy. From what I've read, the second trilogy sounds like a crime drama, with SWAT Mistings and Mistborn serial killers. NCIS: Scadrial, if you will.

 

Maybe Odium would have a role to play there, but it seems unlikely. Then again, I also have concerns over Odium being the Cosmere-wide Big Bad, when the Stormlight Archives seems set to have him be the Final Boss.

End of SA around AoL era -> Odium banished from Roshar, sets plans in motion -> Modern Mistborn trilogy, hints of Odium appear (influencing mad mistborn killer), possibly sent back to Braize as climax -> ? -> Third Mistborn Series, Odium's plans come again (adjusted for the new space-age), set in the interaction between Roshar and Scadrial

 

That's a tentative and unproven timeline

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End of SA around AoL era -> Odium banished from Roshar, sets plans in motion -> Modern Mistborn trilogy, hints of Odium appear (influencing mad mistborn killer), possibly sent back to Braize as climax -> ? -> Third Mistborn Series, Odium's plans come again (adjusted for the new space-age), set in the interaction between Roshar and Scadrial

 

That's a tentative and unproven timeline

My only problem with that timeline is that, at the moment, Odium is being set up as the Big Bad of both the Cosmere and Roshar. There's still nine books left for Stormlight Archives, so maybe the Odium plot is a red herring for the real danger. Maybe Odium will be defeated in Stormlight so Bavadin can be the villain of the Cosmere.

I tend to like meta-stories, but I do worry about Odium. He could be like Brandon's Randall Flagg; a great character and a compelling villain, anti-climactic ally killed off.

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My only problem with that timeline is that, at the moment, Odium is being set up as the Big Bad of both the Cosmere and Roshar. There's still nine books left for Stormlight Archives, so maybe the Odium plot is a red herring for the real danger. Maybe Odium will be defeated in Stormlight so Bavadin can be the villain of the Cosmere.

I tend to like meta-stories, but I do worry about Odium. He could be like Brandon's Randall Flagg; a great character and a compelling villain, anti-climactic ally killed off.

I agree that Odium is being setup as the big bad, but I'm no sure whether he needs to be destroyed. It is possible that Honour Reborn could banish him once he'd been unsplintered.

 

Actally we know that they can. Thats how Vin kamikazed Ruin in the end of HoA. Though you have a point, it seems very unlikely that Ryse could take on both Devotion and Domination more or less at the same time. Do we know any details on how he shattered them?

 

Talking about proxies, could Odium in some way be involved in the conflict with the Southeners on Scardrial or the Sect that Milles was a part of?

Going off that idea, could a shard intentionally create Splinters? Like not shatter his whole being, but could he, say, slice off a bit of himself and invest it in someone, similar to those being influenced by Ruin in HoA?

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Going off that idea, could a shard intentionally create Splinters? Like not shatter his whole being, but could he, say, slice off a bit of himself and invest it in someone, similar to those being influenced by Ruin in HoA?

I kind of think that is what Honor did to create the Heralds. I don't have any evidence, just a gut feeling. 

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Going off that idea, could a shard intentionally create Splinters? Like not shatter his whole being, but could he, say, slice off a bit of himself and invest it in someone, similar to those being influenced by Ruin in HoA?

I kind of think that is what Honor did to create the Heralds. I don't have any evidence, just a gut feeling.

We know it's possible, because it's how the local Shard makes Returned in Warbreaker. I have the same feeling you do about Honor doing it to make Heralds, but we don't know that part. But at least it's possible.

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To add to the OP, I wonder if Odium's plans for the Roshar system have changed because of Harmony? That could make for an interesting twist to the Stormlight Archives, if Odium changed his game-plan after putting the last desolation into motion. He might now be more interested in using rather than destroying Roshar.

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To add to the OP, I wonder if Odium's plans for the Roshar system have changed because of Harmony? That could make for an interesting twist to the Stormlight Archives, if Odium changed his game-plan after putting the last desolation into motion. He might now be more interested in using rather than destroying Roshar.

Well once we get some sort of timeline for events, we might get some clarity there. I think Brandon has said at some point that all of the books so far (with the exception of maybe AoL) have been Cosmere sequential. So going off that, Odium did his thang on Sel, before moving onto Roshar. Or he made a Day-trip. Depends on when the end of the Oathpact happened in the sceme of things. In truth, I think if he was planning on using Roshar, he would have started his plans in motion already, or at least made some kind of move.

 

@Quiver:

 

We know it's possible, because it's how the local Shard makes Returned in Warbreaker. I have the same feeling you do about Honor doing it to make Heralds, but we don't know that part. But at least it's possible.

Thanks for that clarification. I've really got to go back and re-read Warbreaker...

I'd completely forgot about Bavadin in truth. I'll be intrigued to see if he becomes involved in Roshar at some point.

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I would check out the God Beyond on the Coppermind - there is some evidence to suggest that there was a force or group opposing Adonalsium that is still around which is related to this.  So while Odium is certainly the big bad on Roshar (as he likely needs to kill everyone to recover his Investment in them), there may be a bigger bad that opposes the Shards as a whole.

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I would check out the God Beyond on the Coppermind - there is some evidence to suggest that there was a force or group opposing Adonalsium that is still around which is related to this.  So while Odium is certainly the big bad on Roshar (as he likely needs to kill everyone to recover his Investment in them), there may be a bigger bad that opposes the Shards as a whole.

I haven't even noticed this little tidbit till you pointed it out. Thanks!

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As far as establishing a timeline is concerned, isn't there supposed to be a time skip between SA's first arc and second arc? I don't believe we have confirmation as to the length of that skip yet.

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My guess is it would be the third trilogy. From what I've read, the second trilogy sounds like a crime drama, with SWAT Mistings and Mistborn serial killers. NCIS: Scadrial, if you will.

 

Maybe Odium would have a role to play there, but it seems unlikely. Then again, I also have concerns over Odium being the Cosmere-wide Big Bad, when the Stormlight Archives seems set to have him be the Final Boss.

It seems that way, doesn't it? But perhaps the mentioning of Odium is only another bit of information given to those more Cosmere-aware readers, and Odium isn't the leader of the Voidbringers?

 

Or if he is, maybe in the end of the series, Honor is brought brought back, and since he is aware of how Odium will try to kill and splinter him, he then takes measures to work with Cultivation, thus making it impossible, or at least very hard and improbable for Odium to attack Roshar again soon. Perhaps, ooh, here's an idea...

 

Maybe, since Honor's shardholder was killed, Honor will be unsplintered, but will still just be a Shard, no one to control the power, and so Cultivation will take that up and be the next 2-shard big planet-protector, and thus Harmony will not only not be the single strongest entity in the Cosmere, he will actually be weaker, since Cultivation has thousands of years of practice with her Shardic power.

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Well it seems to me that even refounding the Knights Radiant may not be enough to stop Odium. That seems to be the reason that Hoid is becoming so much more involved on Roshar and why it is likely that he will be a cosmere wide villain. It may therefore take joining with Scadrial in its space age and even oither worlds to defeat him.

I wondered then if the 17th Shard was this joining of worlds but it would have had to happen between HoA and AoL because Demoux is involved (closer to HoA obviously). Would that mean Harmony is also involved? Does the 17th Shard have Shardholders as members (or more likely leaders) or is their involvement more abstract?

 

To me the 17th Shard's non-interference policy seems to say that Harmony was involved in the founding.


I was under the impresion that the 'God Beyond' was not another power in the universe but Adonalsium itself. Could be wrong.
 

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Odium can't leave the Rosharian system for some reason related to Honor. I highly doubt SA is going to end with Odium freed from the system. That Shard is toast. Knowing this, I doubt he'll ever get a chance to put his place into action.

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I see many people mentioned here how powerful Harmony is.. But i was under the impression since the two opposing forces making him up are so counter to each-other its actually very diffucuit for Harmony to affect the world. Even though he is made up of 2 shard unless though shard's intent is the same it will be difficult to act..

 

(In order to Preserve the World.. you must Ruin another??) both shards intent in line.. maybe hes beasts another shard that way

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The way I understand it is that he has a difficult doing things, but he can use immense power if he really wants to. So if Odium just came to him and started attacking him, Harmony would be able to wup his butt. It would be harder for Harmony to go over to the Rosharan system and beat Odium there, but it should-in my understanding- still be possible.

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The way I understand it is that he has a difficult doing things, but he can use immense power if he really wants to. So if Odium just came to him and started attacking him, Harmony would be able to wup his butt. It would be harder for Harmony to go over to the Rosharan system and beat Odium there, but it should-in my understanding- still be possible.

It also depends on how much the Intent has superseded Sazed. If he's still basically Sazed, but likes Harmony a bit more, he could probably do it. If he's gone full Harmony, the way Ati did with Ruin, he probably wouldn't be able to do much unless Odium attacked him or his worlds directly.
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