Amanuensis

Mid-Range Game 17: Hic Sunt Leones

590 posts in this topic

On 10/12/2016 at 4:36 PM, TheMightyLopen said:

How exactly are we meant to trust the Julii appointed to steal from the highest Merit earning player? That is the basis of the plan after all, and given that there's no real evidence to trust anyone yet, I'd say that's a fairly big roadblock for the plan. I mean, if Doc/Bugsy think they're Faithful, that's all well and good, but there will always be doubt about them and any player they "soft-clear" using this method. Of course, we could eventually kill the Julii if we get enough soft-cleared people so that if they turn up as village, the soft-cleared group actually becomes soft-cleared, but, it kinda seemed like people are already willing to trust Doc/Bugsy's Julii, which is confusing me. I feel like I'm missing something here.

Edit: Dang, Cycle is ending right now. Well, I do think it's a pretty good plan all things considered, so I'm fine with it the way it stands.

...That's an excellent point, and one I really should've considered. >> We don't have any reason to really trust or distrust the Julii right now, as far as I'm aware. Lynching/killing them eventually is a viable option (sorry, whoever the Julii is, for discussing you without you being able to give much input), but... yeah. It'd be nice to find a second Julii, then. That way at least one is village, almost certainly. 


15 hours ago, Bugsy6912 said:

Yeah, I knew the plan was supposed to be secret when I got it from Doc's contact. I just knew that if I didn't know what the plan was, and they somehow produced a target, there's no way I would have lynched someone proposed by it until I knew exactly what had happened. Also, plans like this make the game slightly less fun because it makes actions rote and predictable for the people involved, even though they're a useful tool when used properly. If I didn't know the plan, I'd be at risk of being Mayored by those who did, which would be even worse.

In addition, if Doctor was the only public link, he could have poisoned the 'well' of information at the source by clearing guilty people and then bussing a teammate. I have a village read on him, but that's no reason to blindly trust his word. Information is also easier to forge in hindsight. Elim!Doc could have held the information back until later turns, so as not to possibly reveal the plan, then release doctored info to make his team look good. Once again, this is unlikely but not impossible

My final point is this: since I posted the plan publicly, everyone has had a chance to improve it. The plan's much better now by virtue of group knowledge, approval, and additional improvement via brainstorming in-thread. Elbereth, specifically, has contributed a lot to the plan, and is my strongest village read right now. Overall, we can produce a lot more constructive criticism than the Elims, simply by virtue of our size. I made a mistake in posting it, but I think it had a net positive effect.

No, you wouldn't. The point of Doctor's plan (which I would argue is not the same as mine, as I'll state in a minute) was entirely focused about one or two Julii scanning for ionBlades. And if one was found, then I presume that Doctor would reveal the whole plan (sans the Julii's name) to the thread, and lynch the offending Forsworn. You wouldn't be Mayored. No one would be forced into certain actions but the Julii, and the Julii would still 1) be allowed a fair amount of choice in who they targeted and 2) not even have to do the plan if they didn't want to. 

Um, what? I mean... If you're implying that Doctor is evil, the Julii isn't, and Doctor could lie about what was happening to the thread, then how do you think the Julii will react when they see an outright lie? They'll reveal and get Doctor lynched. Obviously.
If, instead, you're saying that Doctor could direct the Julii towards people he knows won't be getting the ionBlade, that's more fair of a point. I don't think that is what you're saying, but I'll bring it up anyway because it's something that the Julii should keep in mind - decide your own targets. Just like any other Seeker, you should have final say in who you scan. 

Um... Well, it wasn't improved, in my opinion. I proposed a similar but distinct plan, and everyone seems to now be going with that rather than Doctor's original plan, because the original plan is no longer feasible given that you've pointed it out in thread. His plan involved finding Forsworn. Mine only involves soft-clearing people (people who, incidentally, the eliminators are going to be going after anyway, for several obvious reasons). Now, I do think mine is better because it's going to reliably work, rather than relying on a chance that you'll land on the Forsworn who gets the ionBlade, but Doctor's could've worked just as well had it not been revealed in thread. 


12 hours ago, Doctor12 said:

Discussion

1. You know what's interesting? The idea of 'fun'. It's been brought up many times. Namely by Elbereth, who started by mentioning she could dictate everyone's actions, mentioning the passing items plan she did for the Shades of Threnody quick fix. She then retracted it, saying it wouldn't be fun for the players. Fair, it's a fair point, and I do not fault her for it. I do want to have fun, and mayor games may not be exactly fun. But Elbereth, I am not ruling out the possibility that you might be an eliminator trying to seem helpful by proposing a good plan, then retracting it. It makes you look like you are contributing a lot with possible plans, but at the same time those plans are not likely to be implemented in the first place. Of course, you have helped to vary my original Julii idea into a way to soft clear the Faithful, and I acknowledge that, which is why I still trust you, to a certain extent. I still hope that you're not an eliminator, because you'd be terrifying if you were. We need a faithful El on our side, heh. 

So! Our first duel of the game.

2. As Elenion has pointed out, Bugsy has also been bringing up the idea of 'fun'. Appealing to our pathos was the word that Elenion used. I can't say for sure that Bugsy is Forsworn. Perhaps the fault also lay with my Julii contact for spilling a secret plan. But there is still the fact that Bugsy basically had to cast suspicion on me in order to get the Julii to tell him the secret. This is, as Rae has pointed out, suspicious. What's interesting is how badly he wanted to find this out. It was as if he assumed that I wasn't going to share it at all, and I would just be telling all the players to lynch someone without suspicion. 

What has Bugsy to say in defense? Well, he has said that he would not have trusted any target that I and the Julii came up with unless presented with absolute proof. He could be a villager, and this could be true, but he's assuming that I wouldn't have shared my plan at all. Under this assumption, it would have been scary for the eliminators, knowing that there is a secret plan out there which could topple them. This fear is sheathed in a meta-worry of there being a Mayor game, in which the select few with information direct the actions of all others. While I could say that I would not have done this, his worry is impossible to truly refute, as the plan is already out, and saying what I would have done or should have done is useless.

Bugsy has also expressed his fear that I may...heh...doctor the information (sorry not sorry). Again, it is something that ultimately cannot be proved or disproved, as the plan is already out. I can't argue with this point. 

Bugsy's final point is that there has been a net benefit in sharing the plan, as it has been improved. Perhaps. But would it have needed to be improved if it had not been shared in the first place? Why did it need to be improved? Because now the plan was out and the eliminators were aware of it, it had to be changed to soft clearing Faithful instead of catching Forsworn.

Bugsy, it may honestly have been a mistake, and you might really be a villager, but if you are a villager you have set us back. If this duel does take off, and you have no further defense, I will add my cheer against you.

 

Numbered for clarity because multiquoting stuff is a pain. 

1. Heh. This amuses me, a bit, both because I knew you'd be paranoid of me and because Wilson did that exact thing in LG20 with DC. Although, to be fair, she would've done it regardless of alignment... Anyway. The reason I suggested it was essentially because I thought of it, and I figured I might as well bring it up and shoot it down instead of someone else suggesting it later and me having to shoot it down then. 

2. While I'm not sure I agree that that's suspicious for the reasons you stated, that does make me think that Bugsy is slightly suspicious because of how badly he wanted to find out the plan without your knowledge. Not because he had to cast suspicion on you to do it - as he's said, he honestly believed you could be a SK (I'm... nearly certain there's not a SK in the game with that particular role just because Aman suggested it to the thread, but that's beside the point). But learning what the plan was without your knowledge sounds like it'd be a very good idea for the eliminators - if there's something they can counter without the instigator of the plan knowing htat that person knows, that's entirely to the eliminators' advantage. Given that, and the fact that I'm not currently suspicious of anyone else at moment... Rae.
Corollary - I find it slightly interesting that the Julii never brought up to Doctor that Bugsy was asking about the plan, thought Doctor might be a Julii SK, or even said at all that he/she had told someone other than Doctor the plan. Depends on who the Julii is, of course, but that seems like a sensible thing to have told Doctor and I get the impression that that didn't happen at all.

Oh, note about Mayor games - they only work if everyone lets them. You say that everyone seems to be somewhat scared of them, but they're contingent on everyone else accepting them. LG19 wouldn't have gone how it did if anyone had said "storm it" and just PMed everyone to nix that plan. And I personally have no intention of letting one happen in the slightest, as much as I can. 


4 hours ago, AliasSheep said:

Okay, first responding to @Elbereth.  I can't get proper notificationy quotes working from the closed thread, so this shall have to make do.

1. Hmm, I'm having an issue understanding your own issue with the plan.  Are you suggesting that a Forsworn Julii would have stolen the blade from their fellow Forsworn who had gained it?

2. Yeah, I think I misunderstood your idea as trying to find Forsworn. I suppose soft-clearing would work also.  Just out of interest, have you figured out how much merit anyone got last turn?  It'd be nice to know how good your estimates are on that front.

Huh, fair enough.  I rescind my previous point then.

3. I mean, the plan does require trusting the Julii you decide to enact the plan; given estimates given for how many of each family there are, there's a reasonable chance that a given Julii is also a Forsworn.  The feeding of false information is entirely possible.  Just as long as we don't rely on it, which is what you're suggesting, so all's good.

Hmm... sounds decent.

4. So I may have been exaggerating just a little bit there.  It loses its use a bit due to the fact that people will be able to purchase ionBlades, meaning that, especially for the highest Merit poster, it might be possible to get false positives with people buying ionBlades.  There are solutions to that, but most involve revealing information that is useful more to the elims than to the village.

More numbering! And yeah, you can't quote from a closed thread unless you had multiquotes in it before it closed (I did :P). 

1. Yes. I'm saying that essentially the only way for this plan not to work (and the village not to know about it), assuming the Julii carrying it out is village, would be a Forsaken Julii stealing the ionBlade instead (and using it - I asked, and a Julii can use an ionBlade that they receive the same turn). This is a fairly unlikely proposition, but it is possible, so I thought I'd point it out.

2. Because that was Doc's idea. My idea was not to find Forsworn. Doc's was, but it's somewhat invalid given it's been said in thread now. And no, I have not calculated anyone's Merit but my own yet, though I do intend to do so when I get the chance. (Maybe after I post this. No promises, though.)

3. Yep. Lopen made a fair point there. Hopefully we find another Julii soon, so we can be fairly certain that at least one of them is Faithful.

4. Ah, I see what you're saying. That's why I've been saying that if you're buying an ionBlade, it might be useful to tell someone. Yes, this gets out information that the eliminators would like to have, but it's worth it and less problematic for a couple reasons - if the ionBlade is then stolen, it can be fairly presumed to be an enemy Julii and thus the person that you told is evil. Alternatively, there are also whisperGems, so even if they try to kill you to silence you instead, if you think ahead you can still reveal who you told. So I still think it's a very useful trick. 

That's all for now. Wish I'd been able to respond throughout the day, but I didn't get the concentrated amount of time it takes to finish a whole post. :( RP coming soonish, once I catch up on everything else that's happened in the past three hours or so. 

Edited by Elbereth
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Popping in really quickly to give some thoughts on other players other than Bugsy.

So I've just gone through day one again, partly to try and estimate how much merit each person has. I haven't checked with Aman, but my numbers are close enough to the few people who have revealed their merit counts and mine. Off by one or two, but close enough, *shrug.

Anyway, I made a list of who has been contributing actual discussion, and who has only been doing RP. 

Discussion

Doctor - Came up with the Julii plan. Wanted to have a way to clear roles. Talks about importance of PMs. Has promised to cheer Rae

Elbereth - Has made several detailed posts responding to other players. Helped to modify the Julii plan to soft clear after it was spilled. Has made several good suggestions. Cheers Rae

Bugsy - Well... Spilled my plan, obviously. Has made arguments defending why he tried to find out the plan, and argued that the plan is now the better for being shared.

Lopen - Has doubts about provability of the Julii, stresses importance of PMs, advises to buy information gathering items, pointed out possibility of Forsworn initiating duels to avoid participating in discussion. 

Arranae - Questions viability of Julii plan since Faithful can have Ionblades. Has accused Bugsy to duel him. Suggests keeping track of each other's merit.

Mage - Some thoughts on the lynch, argues that it is better to keep your items secret. Claims will buy protective items. Has idea to clear roles using two Lunes.

Elenion - Accuses Bugsy of using pathos. Cheers Rae

Sheep - Has asked several questions to Elbereth and me concerning Ionblades, vig kills, and the Julii plan. 

RP only

Burnt Spaghetti

Lady of Chaos

Jefry

Jondesu

Wonko the Sane

Dankness Ascendant

I am a Stick

Daniyah

Assassin in Burgundy

Has not posted

The Young Bard

Straw

Living Legend.

 

So, some thoughts. The most active in discussion has actually been Elbereth, with 8 discussion posts to 4 RP posts. Elbereth and I earned the most merit last cycle according to my count, but I had 5 discussion posts to 7 RP posts. Obviously, my numbers are not that accurate, as Merit is calculated by Aman, but it's close enough. I hope me or Elbereth can be soft cleared soon, because Elbereth so far is our most valuable player discussion-wise. 

Secondly, a very large portion of the plan has revolved around my Julii plan. Sure, there were talks about lynch mechanics and items, and Mage brought up a half-hearted idea of there being two Lunes who would scan each other, and then lynching one to hard clear the other. Elbereth, as I have said, has proposed some ideas that she shot down for being too dictatorial. The point is, the plan might be a good one, but it's worth branching out to discuss our other options more! 

Thirdly, I want to look at those who have only been posting RP. There have been quite a few people who have only been posting RP, and while RP is fun and I'm loving all the RP we have had so far, I really hope that you guys will start contributing a bit more in game discussion, suggesting ideas of your own or critiquing other people's ideas. Posting RP frequently is another excellent way to seem active in thread, but not actually helping all that much. Nothing's wrong with a lot of RP. Just don't post only RP, as for lack of better ideas we might start targeting the people who are actually not contributing anything. 

Case in point, currently I suspect that more than one of the RP- only people are Forsworn lying low and hoping they won't actually be called up to contribute if they post enough RP to keep people happy. Not to say that all the discussion people are suspicion-free, but at least they're provoking discussion...

That's all for my thoughts. Hope you can make something coherent out of that...

 

EDIT: I concur with Elbereth's point. Is there really only one Julii in the whole game? That seems...weird. 

Edited by Doctor12
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THAT WAS NOT WISE. YOU'VE ATTRACTED TOO MUCH ATTENTION TO YOURSELF, NYANAH, the Stormfather said.

Nyanah glanced at the crowd around her. Everybody seemed to be staring at her. Watching her. Judging her.

I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together. 

Nyanah raised her head. "I couldn't just let it happen. For all I knew, that was a potential assassination attempt! I swore an oath, and you know it," she said.

IT WAS A FOOLISH ACT! THIS ISN'T YOUR COUNTRY, OR EVEN YOUR PLANET. YOU CANNOT WASTE STORMLIGHT ON TRIVIAL MATTERS SUCH AS THIS, the Stormfather said.

"'I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together.' That's my second oath right there. Letting the leader die and leave a power vacuum that could potentially lead to a civil war is the opposite of uniting people. 'Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination.' That's my first oath. Even if that man wasn't the leader, I can't just let someone try to hurt him," Nyanah said.


I feel like @TheMightyLopen has been less active lately. One of his eliminator tells is that he gets lazy and doesn't feel like putting in effort to make ginormous posts, because he doesn't need to find the eliminators anyways. Also, in LG26, Lopen said he wasn't posting as much because he wasn't village and  didn't need to drive discussion, because it didn't benefit him. Lopen's current lack of activity could be an indicator that he's not village.

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Alright, here goes!

I already stated how I felt suspicious of Bugsy in my RP last cycle. It was an obvious attempt to ruin the plan, make it of no use. Another thing is how he first ruined the plan, and then suggested that he did it so that we could improve it XD

My thoughts on Elbereth are mostly villager..ish. By saying that Elbereth is one of Bugsy's most trusted, Bugsy might have been trying to provoke suspicions on Elbereth. 

As for the Julii thing:

2 hours ago, Doctor12 said:

I concur with Elbereth's point. Is there really only one Julii in the whole game? That seems...weird. 

LivingLegend might be the Julii you're looking for, he hasn't really been online since the game started

I still need to catch up on some of the above posts, but for now, cheering against Bugsy (is there a specific color to be used for cheering?)

 

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2 hours ago, Arraenae said:

 

 


I feel like @TheMightyLopen has been less active lately. One of his eliminator tells is that he gets lazy and doesn't feel like putting in effort to make ginormous posts, because he doesn't need to find the eliminators anyways. Also, in LG26, Lopen said he wasn't posting as much because he wasn't village and  didn't need to drive discussion, because it didn't benefit him. Lopen's current lack of activity could be an indicator that he's not village.

Have I been less active? I think I've posted a few times with some helpful comments. I have yet to give any type of reads, sure, but a lot of the posts are RP which makes it really difficult to discern alingment. I've got a village read on El right now, and I'm leaning towards cheering for you to defeat Bugsy, but other than that, I haven't got any solid suspicions. I think I'll find someone to start a Duel with though. Maybe we could get a little more lynch discussion going. I actually think it could be a good idea if everyone started a Duel. The more stuff that's happening, the more chances elims will slip up somehow.

Also, generally I make giant posts in later Cycles, when there is a lot more information or I'm trying to make some sort of plan. As it is, I haven't thought of any good plans and not much has really happened. So, maybe once things start to heat up, I'll make a giant post just for you. :P

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@Elbereth Want to RP or nah? And @Elenion I kindly request you RP with me, your character is a dear friend of mine.

---------------

Pierce approached Khazad, then noticed he was asleep. 

Of course he was sleeping, what else did he do??

Grumbling, Pierce walked out of the hall then remembered three ickle Brownies he was to reward. He called up another Brown, then requested that the porter send some money to the three Browns who had helped him. He watched the porter nod then retreat off to do as his Gold commanded.

Ahead of him, around the corner came a yell. "TIBERIOUS AU BELLONA", then a satisfied crack. Pierce sighed, Great way to end a party Tiberius, couldn't have done better myself, and that's including the time I made a Nazi joke at the end of the Yom Kippur celebrations. Wait. Nazi? Yom Kippur? The hell are they? I am apparently alot stranger than I give myself credit for.

Pierce sighed and made his way to the War-room. 

It was going to be a long walk

--------------

So, time to discuss I guess. Don't we have to appoint a sort of "champion"? to "fight" Bugsy or whoever's gonna be dueling? Besides, the accusations against Bugsy do seem a little half-formed. I will accept it is a bit suspicious, but still. :/

20 hours ago, Bugsy6912 said:

PS: You're correct in assuming I've PMed other people. I'll wait for them to come forward at their own discretion, if they so choose. 

Err. I don't think that's helping your case. I reckon we duel Busy unless someone who he PMed "Comes forward" to testify against him being a Forsworn. So I'm calling you guys out.

 

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13 minutes ago, Dankness Ascendant said:

 

Err. I don't think that's helping your case. I reckon we duel Busy unless someone who he PMed "Comes forward" to testify against him being a Forsworn. So I'm calling you guys out.

 

I'm one of those he started PMs with, but we didn't talk much. Just asked my thoughts on the game, and promised not make the same mistake he made with Doctor's plan. Nothing suspicious, but still not enough to clear him. 

 

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7 hours ago, Doctor12 said:

Mage - Some thoughts on the lynch, argues that it is better to keep your items secret. Claims will buy protective items. Has idea to clear roles using two Lunes.

The principle of the idea is solid, it just involves killing a villager.  The unfortunate thing about this game is that there are no definite alignment scans.  This means that either of the Lunes could be evil, and we would not know it until we killed one.  It's not the best idea for this game, so I'd say that the current best thing to do is Elbereth/Your plan. Having Lunes could be helpful, but I don't think they scan alignment, which makes things difficult.

About your list;  I'm pretty sure both Wonko and Burnt have actually posted some game related stuff.  I know I responded to something Burnt said about lynch mechanics.

8 hours ago, Elbereth said:

...That's an excellent point, and one I really should've considered. >> We don't have any reason to really trust or distrust the Julii right now, as far as I'm aware. Lynching/killing them eventually is a viable option (sorry, whoever the Julii is, for discussing you without you being able to give much input), but... yeah. It'd be nice to find a second Julii, then. That way at least one is village, almost certainly. 

Lynching someone after they give you info is the surest way to clear there info, unless they are an Elim.  This is why my Lune idea holds as much water as it does.  The thing is, this process is better for a LG, because we have more time.  In a MR?  I'm not sure we'll have long enough to make it work.  And it involves killing.  

I might be somewhat innactive after cycle 3/4, depending.  I'll still have access to a comp, so I might post a bit, but I'll be very busy.

Edited by Magestar
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My apologies for not posting so far. I've been busy IRL, and most of my spare time was occupied with prepping and posting LG27. Unfortunately, I can't promise I'll be more active in future, though I'll do my best to be. The weekends, at least, I should be able to get some theory making done, and maybe even a small bit of RP here and there. My apologies - I probably should have known better than to sign up to this game when I didn't have time to play it.

I think the Julii plan is a good idea. I can't really tell what the problem even is that it's been revealed, although that may be me being dense. The way I understand it, the plan can still go ahead and there's not really a lot that the Forsworn could do to stop it. I mean, it's not ideal, but I think if Bugsy were an Eliminator, he didn't really achieve anything by posting even if he was a Forsworn.

However, I notice there was no Eliminator kill this Cycle. I know there was no lynch last Cycle, but I didn't think the Eliminators were similarly disadvantaged. I know this is rich coming from me, but I think one of the inactive players could have recieved the ionBlade (remember, they recieve it randomly), and not used it due to inactivity (and I was online, if not active enough to post in thread. Had I received the ionBlade, I almost certainly would have taken 5 minutes to randomly place a kill). Aman, will you confirm or deny the idea that an Eliminator kill could have occurred last cycle? Going by Doctor's list, @Straw and @livinglegend were the other 2 players not to post. Now unfortunately, both were on since rollover, so that can't decide my vote. Failing that, I'll vote for Straw, because they are the more experienced player, so they should be able to make some more insightful comments about the lynch and tactics. So this is half poke-vote, half an indication of what my brain is thinking at this point. If the Straw lynch doesn't take off, I'll cheer for Bugsy towards the end of the cycle, but my feelings for him are relatively neutral.

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1 minute ago, The Young Bard said:
 

My apologies for not posting so far. I've been busy IRL, and most of my spare time was occupied with prepping and posting LG27. Unfortunately, I can't promise I'll be more active in future, though I'll do my best to be. The weekends, at least, I should be able to get some theory making done, and maybe even a small bit of RP here and there. My apologies - I probably should have known better than to sign up to this game when I didn't have time to play it.

I think the Julii plan is a good idea. I can't really tell what the problem even is that it's been revealed, although that may be me being dense. The way I understand it, the plan can still go ahead and there's not really a lot that the Forsworn could do to stop it. I mean, it's not ideal, but I think if Bugsy were an Eliminator, he didn't really achieve anything by posting even if he was a Forsworn.

However, I notice there was no Eliminator kill this Cycle. I know there was no lynch last Cycle, but I didn't think the Eliminators were similarly disadvantaged. I know this is rich coming from me, but I think one of the inactive players could have recieved the ionBlade (remember, they recieve it randomly), and not used it due to inactivity (and I was online, if not active enough to post in thread. Had I received the ionBlade, I almost certainly would have taken 5 minutes to randomly place a kill). Aman, will you confirm or deny the idea that an Eliminator kill could have occurred last cycle? Going by Doctor's list, @Straw and @livinglegend were the other 2 players not to post. Now unfortunately, both were on since rollover, so that can't decide my vote. Failing that, I'll vote for Straw, because they are the more experienced player, so they should be able to make some more insightful comments about the lynch and tactics. So this is half poke-vote, half an indication of what my brain is thinking at this point. If the Straw lynch doesn't take off, I'll cheer for Bugsy towards the end of the cycle, but my feelings for him are relatively neutral.

I can confirm that there's a possibility that an eliminator kill could have occurred last cycle.

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48 minutes ago, The Young Bard said:

However, I notice there was no Eliminator kill this Cycle. I know there was no lynch last Cycle, but I didn't think the Eliminators were similarly disadvantaged. I know this is rich coming from me, but I think one of the inactive players could have recieved the ionBlade (remember, they recieve it randomly), and not used it due to inactivity (and I was online, if not active enough to post in thread. Had I received the ionBlade, I almost certainly would have taken 5 minutes to randomly place a kill). Aman, will you confirm or deny the idea that an Eliminator kill could have occurred last cycle? 

46 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

I can confirm that there's a possibility that an eliminator kill could have occurred last cycle.

That's odd.  I don't see why they would do that.   Why waste a kill?  Plus, the ionBlade goes to the most active player, technically, so they should probably have placed a kill.  The only likelihood that I can see is that the ionBlade went to someone who could not have been on at rollover.

48 minutes ago, The Young Bard said:

I think the Julii plan is a good idea. I can't really tell what the problem even is that it's been revealed, although that may be me being dense. The way I understand it, the plan can still go ahead and there's not really a lot that the Forsworn could do to stop it. I mean, it's not ideal, but I think if Bugsy were an Eliminator, he didn't really achieve anything by posting even if he was a Forsworn.

As far as that goes, it's not really what makes me think he might be an Elim.  I more want to see his alignment as an indicator for further suspicions.  That's not really a great reason to lynch him, so I'm not going to cheer for either side as of now, but I kind of want to see where this goes.  If he is or is not an Elim, it will still give us usable data, which is what I'm looking for.   I only have some half suspicions, which is why I want a lynch to happen, regardless.

edit;  Accidently clicked the post key. :P 

It's good that Doctor called out the innactives.  We've seen a few of them respond now, which I'm happy about, especially considereing how quiet this thread has been.  

I'll have some RP up later today, hopefully.  @Wonko the Sane, since you appear to have gone quiet, I'm just going to have Lucius have had walked away from Sanis after Tiberius hit Kavax, unless you really want to post some RP with him.

Edited by Magestar
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Apologies. I've been sort of busy the past couple of days, and haven't been reading RP. Let me catch up.

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Mage, C1, everybody has the same amount of merit. Ionblades are given at the start of every cycle to the Foresworn with the most merit, so C1, the Foresworn that got the ionblade would be randomized.

@Amanuensis, can people use multiple items at once? If so, it's possible that the Foresworn might be stockpiling ionblades so they can kill more people later, when they have more information to choose who to kill from.

I half-suspect that the Foresworn have a Julii so they can move items around -- Julii are the only way to exchange items this game. Does that seem like somethinf Aman might put on his elim teams? This isn't a strong, logical suspicion, more like a weak gut feeling.

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2 minutes ago, Arraenae said:
 
 
 

@Amanuensis, can people use multiple items at once? If so, it's possible that the Foresworn might be stockpiling ionblades so they can kill more people later, when they have more information to choose who to kill from.

Quote
 
 
 

Flow

There is no limit to how many different Items a lancer can use in a single Chapter; however, the same does not apply multiples of the same Item. In the case of actions / reactions, they will always occur in the following order:

RathholoCamAccusation FabiiCheer → Duel → JuliijamFieldghostCloak fleshMask → stunFistTelemanusionBlade Lune holoBox Purchases

 

Edited by Amanuensis
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Okay, Mage, the story has moved a little ways past our encounter. Go ahead and have us part ways.


Well, this was proving to be far more interesting than expected. It looked as though Sanis was going to have some fun in the next few days after all. A man was already dead and Tiberius was wracked with grief. Exciting times indeed.

He made his way toward the medbay, where the action was almost certainly centered. As he went, his thoughts strayed back to the insult that had been paid him. In all the commotion he had nearly forgotten. Nyanah, Jefry, Tenebrum. They would pay.

Not soon, though. Let them run. Let them hide. Let them feel safe again. Nyanah, Jefry, Tenebrum. He had their names.

And if the Laughing Man had your name, he had your life.

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Sevro began to parse through the information he had heard while slinking through the shadows. One of the perks of being a 'bronzie' was the ability to go more or less unnoticed. So long as he covered his decorative scars, no one would think he was anything more than a lowborn Gold employed as a servant. Apparently, a lot had happened in the past few days. To start, a Telamunus had died. If I find who did that, I'll kill them. It would have to wait until after he took down the Jackal, however. That little monster deserved to die for what crimes he'd commuted at the institute. Sevro would start with his eye, of course. Fair's fair.

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1 hour ago, Amanuensis said:

I can confirm that there's a possibility that an eliminator kill could have occurred last cycle.

Well played :P
 

@The Young Bard

From what I can tell, the only way an elim kill could have occurred is if one of the elims had been lucky enough to randomly start with an ionBlade (not the one assigned each cycle), which seems quite unlikely.  I'm not gonna start making up numbers, but consider the amount of players, then how many elims, how many are likely to recieve an item and how many people who recieve an item are going to get specifically the ionBlade, it doesn't seem incredibly likely to me.  

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4 hours ago, Magestar said:

Lynching someone after they give you info is the surest way to clear there info, unless they are an Elim.  This is why my Lune idea holds as much water as it does.  The thing is, this process is better for a LG, because we have more time.  In a MR?  I'm not sure we'll have long enough to make it work.  And it involves killing.  

Oh, I'm aware of this - I just generally get a bit uncomfortable about discussing deliberately killing someone for information in front of that person, without them even being able to say whether they'd be okay with that or not without giving themselves away. 

2 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

My apologies for not posting so far. I've been busy IRL, and most of my spare time was occupied with prepping and posting LG27. Unfortunately, I can't promise I'll be more active in future, though I'll do my best to be. The weekends, at least, I should be able to get some theory making done, and maybe even a small bit of RP here and there. My apologies - I probably should have known better than to sign up to this game when I didn't have time to play it.

I think the Julii plan is a good idea. I can't really tell what the problem even is that it's been revealed, although that may be me being dense. The way I understand it, the plan can still go ahead and there's not really a lot that the Forsworn could do to stop it. I mean, it's not ideal, but I think if Bugsy were an Eliminator, he didn't really achieve anything by posting even if he was a Forsworn.

However, I notice there was no Eliminator kill this Cycle. I know there was no lynch last Cycle, but I didn't think the Eliminators were similarly disadvantaged. I know this is rich coming from me, but I think one of the inactive players could have recieved the ionBlade (remember, they recieve it randomly), and not used it due to inactivity (and I was online, if not active enough to post in thread. Had I received the ionBlade, I almost certainly would have taken 5 minutes to randomly place a kill). Aman, will you confirm or deny the idea that an Eliminator kill could have occurred last cycle? Going by Doctor's list, @Straw and @livinglegend were the other 2 players not to post. Now unfortunately, both were on since rollover, so that can't decide my vote. Failing that, I'll vote for Straw, because they are the more experienced player, so they should be able to make some more insightful comments about the lynch and tactics. So this is half poke-vote, half an indication of what my brain is thinking at this point. If the Straw lynch doesn't take off, I'll cheer for Bugsy towards the end of the cycle, but my feelings for him are relatively neutral.

Um... what Sheep just said, essentially. I asked (since I wanted to figure out when the Julii should be stealing), and the ionBlade is received at the same time as Purchases, which is after the ionBlade kills. So while a Blade was received this last cycle, it couldn't have been used yet. I wouldn't be surprised if the eliminators did start with an ionBlade and just saved it for later. Or perhaps they didn't start with one at all. Either way makes sense, and neither implicates any inactives. Sorry you can't duel anyone else this cycle. :P 

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1 hour ago, Arraenae said:

Mage, C1, everybody has the same amount of merit. Ionblades are given at the start of every cycle to the Foresworn with the most merit, so C1, the Foresworn that got the ionblade would be randomized.

I... Didn't think of that. :P 

1 hour ago, Arraenae said:

I half-suspect that the Foresworn have a Julii so they can move items around -- Julii are the only way to exchange items this game. Does that seem like somethinf Aman might put on his elim teams? This isn't a strong, logical suspicion, more like a weak gut feeling.

It doesn't seem unlikely, but someone smarter than me would have to do the numbers.  It'd probably be good for balance reasons, as far as that goes, but I'm not sure beyond that.

4 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

From what I can tell, the only way an elim kill could have occurred is if one of the elims had been lucky enough to randomly start with an ionBlade (not the one assigned each cycle), which seems quite unlikely.  I'm not gonna start making up numbers, but consider the amount of players, then how many elims, how many are likely to recieve an item and how many people who recieve an item are going to get specifically the ionBlade, it doesn't seem incredibly likely to me.  

Technically Aman could have given them an ionBlade for balance reasons, but I'm not sure.  The evidence for them not having it would seem pretty good to me.  Like Bard said, unless it was an inactive who got the blade, then there should have been a kill last cycle.  There wasn't one, which would seem to point towards it not having been received, at least in my opinion.

I keep getting ninja'd as I try to post this. :P  

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Wow am I getting lost in all this discussion.  I'm used to in-person Mafia games where it's slightly easier to follow what's going on, but I'm otherwise in a similar position on this first cycle of not really having enough information to go on, hence my RP-only posts.  There does seem to be some good reasoning for the suspicions about Bugsy, though I suppose it could have been an honest mistake, so I'll watch and see, but may go ahead and cheer him.  Just to check, though, does he have an opponent?  Is it the person who challenged/accused him, or do we need to appoint someone?

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I believe Rae is the one who challenged Bugsy.  She 'duels' him.

Now for some RP.


Lucius glared at Tiberius as he stalked out.  Kavax had been a good man, one of the few who excepted Lucius, and who Lucius liked in return.  Tiberius had liked Kavax.  Lucius shook his head, trying to puzzle out what was going on as he stalked towards the war room.  Tiberius had exploded over that bird.  Wasted emotion, to invest in a bird.  Wasted emotion in general.  The girl had had no business doing such a thing, in a place or time like this, but it was nothing to rage over.  Throw the girl out, buy a new bird;  Situation fixed!  And now they were all headed to the war room.  This did not bode well.

To make matters worse, the conversation with Sanis had been completely unproductive.  He had been cold; That was expected, but he had also been distant, his mind on other things.  He had exchanged a few pleasantries, as pleasant as Sanis could be, anyway, before walking off.  Just before Tiberius had knocked Kavax cold.  Lucius sighed.  He hoped Kavax was well.  Perhaps he would have time to talk after the War Council.

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Silence. Deathly silence from all around.

Spartacus’ hand was throbbing, and it hurt like hell. He might as well have punched a stone pillar for all the emotion that Tiberius showed. The man hadn’t even moved from the force of his punch. That’s good, that’s okay. There had never been any intention of actually hurting Tiberius...he had just been trying to get his attention.

Tiberius turned to look at him, his eyes drilling into Spartacus’ own, and Spartacus began to wonder if he had made a mistake. It had been a rash, emotion filled gamble, trusting in his future self’s friendship with Tiberius, that Tiberius would take the time to understand him, if only for the sake of their friendship.

Still nothing was said. Around the corridor, no one watching dared to even make a sound.

Suddenly their silent confrontation was broken by the offworlder, the woman with red-gold hair. She had run up to them, breathlessly, saying, “Whatever quarrel you have with your leader, you can talk it out," she said. She took a breath. "Attacking him won't solve anything."

Tiberius finally moved. He made to turn away, then looked down, frowning. The floor...it was glowing, and both his and Tiberius’ feet seemed to be glued to the floor! His eyes shot to the girl, realizing it was her work, realizing it was the same glow that had infused Sanis’ cloak earlier.

The girl seemed to notice Spartacus’ scrutiny, and looked at him defiantly. The glow vanished as if it had never been there. And without a word, Tiberius turned his back on them and stalked off, all quiet dignity. Spartacus made to move after Tiberius as well, only to realize that the girl had not removed the glue by his feet. He could only watch as Tiberius strode quietly away...

...Leaving him standing there, cradling his broken wrist in the middle of the corridor, feeling profoundly stupid. That had been very, very rash, even if it was well intentioned… He supposed Tiberius would confront him at the meeting tomorrow. Somehow, he found himself dreading it. Oh good job, me, very good job managing to piss off the person you're pledged to protect...The girl finally left him, the glow by his feet vanishing. Wonderful.

He sighed, shaking his head and heading into the medbay to get something for his hand. It hurt.

He should get some sleep. There were only six hours until they were scheduled to meet at the War Room. That was, of course, if the other lancers would let him have peace for said six hours...

 


 

The thought that the Forsworn might be storing Ionblades worries me. But then, if they are storing blades, hey, it increases the chances of a successful trade by the Julii, doesn't it? I assume that there is going to be a kill tonight, made by the Forsworn who earned the highest number of Merit last cycle. For now, it's impossible to tell who has it, sigh. Telemanus, choose wisely, I guess? 

Anyways, I'm about to head to bed, and as no further defense has been forthcoming from Bugsy, I'm going to hold to my promise and cheer for Rae. RP, Bugsy? really? You're being accused and on the lynch, and you RP instead of defending yourself further? I just really hope that you're Forsworn...Also, I'll be on before Rollover, so if you do hope to get me to rescind my cheer, you had better start finding some very good reasons why we shouldn't. 

Anyway, if we want to solidify the lynch on Bugsy, and prevent a Forsworn Fabii from changing the outcome of the duel, I would suggest more people start cheering. 

Also, I'm glad that some of the RP only characters have begun posting discussions too, such as Darkness, Stick and Jondesu. Hopefully more will follow. @Chaos, @Assassin in Burgundy, @jefrywlfersn@Burnt Spaghetti... Still waiting for you to join in :P

@Straw, @livinglegend, please post before rollover.

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Firstly, sorry i know i should participate in discussion.... you guys have my permission to keep poking me until i do. Just.... maybe when its not 3am XD i have the brain power for rp at 3am but not.... discussion. That takes much more thought imo. And reading. Ill try post something tomorrow.... if i remember >.> im bad at remembering though.... meep.


Tia was walking away from the medbay. Being deep in thought, her pace was slow, and soon enough someone walked past her with a heavy sigh. She glanced up and saw that it was the man - Spartacus - who had just tried punching Tiberius, still cradling his right hand. She smirked slightly, and then called out to him.

“Hey! You there!” He glanced her way, raising an eyebrow. “I imagine that you cannot wait for the meeting in the morning, can you?” she said with a wry smile. “I'm the one who upset Tiberius by helping his little Tarna do a prank with one of his dead birds so, I'm just as excited.”

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BTW, can we get an updated summary of who's dueling and being cheered?  I think I'm seeing two duels:

1: @Arraenae vs @Bugsy6912: Rae has one official cheer (in green, none of the others are in green so if one was meant to be official, sorry), while Bugsy has none.  Several others have promised to cheer for Rae or suggested they likely will, but they haven't been made official.

2: @The Young Bard vs @Straw (for inactivity and suspicion that they may have received a randomized Forsworn ionBlade): Only the accusation from Bard, no cheers yet.

Is that correct?

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That is correct, Jondesu. Those are the current two Duels. However, didn't I add my cheer to Rae? There should be at least be at least three cheers for Rae now,right? 


 

Spartacus snorted, a soft chuckle escaping him. “Naww, can’t wait. Why not get the TARDIS and hop forward six hours already?” The woman gave him a quizzical look, to which he laughed, “nevermind.”
 

He fell into step beside the woman, noting her practiced, easy stride, contrasted with her slightly lost demeanour. This woman walked like a seasoned warrior, yet… there was something off about the way she carried herself. Also, this might have been his imagination, but he could’ve...could’ve sworn that he’d seen her picture amongst the photos in his room. But the woman gave no sign of knowing him.

He sucked in a breath. “So what’s the story with the bird?” he asked. “Where did you even get a rotting dead bird that happened to be Tiberius’ favorite?”


Then, realizing that he still didn’t know her name, extended a hand. “Spartacus au [redacted]”

Edited by Doctor12
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