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Mid-Range Game 17: Hic Sunt Leones


Amanuensis

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42 minutes ago, Elenion said:

If there are any scan roles in the game, any at all, we need them to scan Mage and tell us what his alignment is. I don't want to waste an IonBlade on a villager, but if he's Forsworn we need to take him tomorrow with the IonBlades from the store.

Barring secret roles, to which effect Aman said he was not going to put any in this game, all they'll find out is that I'm not lying about being an Arcos. :P  So, I'd love if you could find a better way to clear me.  

I wonder about Burnt, still.  Something feels fishy about the whole behind the scenes events associated with Doc and PMs.  At this point, with Doc and his primary contacts dead, it'd be really easy for her other major contacts to lie about this stuff.  It worries me, TBH.

Plus, I think we should look for more lynch candidates.  I know everyone loves lynching Magestar, but perhaps we could at least consider others and the reasoning behind it? :P 

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Just now, Magestar said:
 

Barring secret roles, to which effect Aman said he was not going to put any in this game, all they'll find out is that I'm not lying about being an Arcos. :P  So, I'd love if you could find a better way to clear me. 

I don't recall saying that...

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  • Will there be any hidden roles and factions?
    • ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

From the clarifications. Shrug = PAFO

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Although I hate setting a precedence of amending rules in the middle of a game, I feel that making this change is worth it, both in regards to balance and fun. There's a particular reason why I did not include an alignment-scanner role, and as it stands, the current OoA not only makes the Julii one, but an exceptionally efficient one (unless the eliminators stop posting / start reducing their posts, which I believe should never be encouraged or forced by the mechanics of a game). Additionally, having Julii as early in the OoA as I did effectively made them an Item block, which significantly lessens the purpose of jamFields and stunFists. Therefore Julii will now be going after all kills and before Purchases.

I took this to mean that you did not include an alignment scanner role, as you said you did not include an alignment scanner role. :P  That's all I meant.

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Just now, Magestar said:

I took this to mean that you did not include an alignment scanner role, as you said you did not include an alignment scanner role. :P  That's all I meant.

Ah, sorry. Thought you were saying that I stated I wouldn't add additional Houses to this game. Carry on.

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1 hour ago, Magestar said:

Plus, I think we should look for more lynch candidates.  I know everyone loves lynching Magestar, but perhaps we could at least consider others and the reasoning behind it? :P 

If you're really an Arcos, lynching you would mean the challenger's death, which we really don't need right now. :D And since both you and Lopen have claimed that you are an Arcos, I see no reason to doubt that, and so right now I'd say you're safe from the lynch. But as for night-kills, I can't make any guarantees about me or anyone else.

 

However, if we don't want to lynch Mage, who do we lynch? I've explained my reasoning for why we should lynch Lopen, but so far I have had no feedback as to whether or not that would be a good idea.

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The ghostCloak is just as good as anything else to block night kills.  I'm not sure if it can be disabled(?), but I think I should be fine.  I'm not sure if the elims will try to triple tap me to get around it, but it seems more likely that they'll wait till it's gone.   I'm not too worried about village attacking me, mostly because I think I've put together a decent defense of my innocence, but also because I'm pretty sure that, even if there is another villager who started with a ionBlade or bought one, they won't waste it on me.


I honestly don't know who else we could lynch though.  Everyone alive is alive because they are either trusted by the village or ignored by the Elims, which makes it hard for me to make good judgements.   I would not mind lynching Burnt or Lopen, but IDK.  I worry that we will end up aiding the Elims.  Stick's been awfully quiet.  I wonder what they have to say on the matter?

Also, I'm wouldn't mind hearing some people's lists of trusts and distrusts.  I liked seeing those from the other people who did them, which is part of the reason I did one.

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I'm not sold on lynching Lopen, nor quite convinced of Burnt, though I'm suspicious. I'm mostly becoming more suspicious of the very quiet people, with everything going down. They should be speaking up more as the population dwindles, knowing that they need to make some effort, but we have a number of people who haven't really said anything in a while. Can they chime in? Stick, Assassin, Chaos, Straw, and jefry, I'd like to hear something from ya'll.

EDIT: Tomorrow's a busy day for me and I'm heading to bed already, so I probably won't be on much before the cycle ends, but I will make sure to drop in at some point.

Edited by Jondesu
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44 minutes ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

I'm thinking that Mage is an Elim, but how do we kill an Arcos?

I'm not sure. If there's another Arcos, what happens if one of them targets the other tonight? (Obviously I'm not asleep yet even though I planned to be. ^_^)

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45 minutes ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

How do we kill an Arcos?

Lopen proposed 4 possible methods here.

I'm growing more and more concerned about the lack of a lynch today: if we don't choose a target and soon, the Forsworn will be able to just vote on whomever they want at the last second for an instant lynch. In the past I've mentioned my distrust of Lopen; however, it appears that no other players share this same suspicion of him other than Burnt, and so am willing to believe that I am mistaken about Lopen's alignment.

Who I do wish to challenge is Bard, because of something I just remembered while looking over the Forsworn we've killed so far: Wonko was an item-swapper, right? And we know that he was one of the Forsworn's heaviest posters (if not the heaviest), because he had a Blade that El stole from him. Now here's my thought: "If I was a Forsworn, and a fellow Forsworn was getting lynched who had some good items or even an IonBlade, what would I suggest to do about it?" My answer to myself: "I would suggest setting up another fellow Forsworn as challenger in order to receive the items." I found it a bit strange at the time that Bard was the one cheered to duel Wonko: I even put my first cheer on Doc because I trusted him with the Merit and items gained, before Sheep and Dani told me that Doc had withdrawn his challenge. There was another challenge to Wonko: DA, but we know he was village. So if the elims didn't send Doc to retrieve any items, and didn't send DA to retrive any items, what does that leave? Two things: either Wonko didn't have any items of note, or Bard was the one sent by the Forsworn to retrieve items. I think the first is less likely because Wonko was more active than all of the players left alive now were at that time (or at least it feels that way). So if Wonko out-posted all of our remaining Forsworn, that means he should have been getting all of the IonBlades, leaving him with at least one before he died, but Bard never mentioned receiving any IonBlades from the lynch.

I know that it looks like I'm flailing for evidence (and I probably am), but my highest priority right now is ensuring that the lynch has at least a good chance of being productive for us. If anyone else has more-concrete suspicions than this, I am happy to cheer them in their duel instead.

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I'd forgotten about that post from Lopen. I think the most reasonable option would be a stunFist and then ionBlade combo, but I don't know who has a either. Feel free to PM me if you have one of those. I have enough merit for a stunFist, but not for an ionBlade even with the sale.

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1 hour ago, Elenion said:

Who I do wish to challenge is Bard, because of something I just remembered while looking over the Forsworn we've killed so far: Wonko was an item-swapper, right? And we know that he was one of the Forsworn's heaviest posters (if not the heaviest), because he had a Blade that El stole from him. Now here's my thought: "If I was a Forsworn, and a fellow Forsworn was getting lynched who had some good items or even an IonBlade, what would I suggest to do about it?" My answer to myself: "I would suggest setting up another fellow Forsworn as challenger in order to receive the items." I found it a bit strange at the time that Bard was the one cheered to duel Wonko: I even put my first cheer on Doc because I trusted him with the Merit and items gained, before Sheep and Dani told me that Doc had withdrawn his challenge. There was another challenge to Wonko: DA, but we know he was village. So if the elims didn't send Doc to retrieve any items, and didn't send DA to retrive any items, what does that leave? Two things: either Wonko didn't have any items of note, or Bard was the one sent by the Forsworn to retrieve items. I think the first is less likely because Wonko was more active than all of the players left alive now were at that time (or at least it feels that way). So if Wonko out-posted all of our remaining Forsworn, that means he should have been getting all of the IonBlades, leaving him with at least one before he died, but Bard never mentioned receiving any IonBlades from the lynch.

Hmmm... that's... a valid point, but why would Wonko waste his Merit if it was going to go to another Eliminator? Seeing as the Merit Wasting PM tactic hadn't been thought of yet, it would hardly have been noted if Wonko hadn't done it.

And I didn't collect an ionBlade either from Wonko didn't have one. Wonko musn't have had it, which is why an Eliminator kill was performed C4 - it wouldn't have been if Wonko had held the ionBlade, as he would have been lynched before he could have performed it. So, we know that whoever performed the kill had more than 14 Merit, seeing as we know that's how much Wonko had. I'm pretty sure you can tell from my activity that that's clearly not me :P (Sorry about that, by the way.) If anyone was particularly active C3 (the cycle before Wonko died) in order to take enough Merit to get the ionBlade instead of Wonko, I'd suspect them, but I haven't gone through to check.

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I completely forgot about the PM escapade--that is a rather gaping hole in my theory. Same with the elim kill: it wouldn't have been even possible for you to have received a Blade from Wonko. It appears that I jumped to conclusions too hastily. Sorry, Bard.

BTW, do you have a read on Lopen? @The Young Bard

Edited by Elenion
Tagged Bard after my question
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10 hours ago, Elenion said:

1. Sorry; I meant Burnt. I was trying to make the point that one of your closest contacts found you suspicious, but I mixed up the names. Sorry.

2. No, I said "I'm most suspicious of Mage, Burnt, and Lopen, but definitely not in that order", specifically noting about Burnt that I "Would not lynch at this point." What I was saying is that out of Burnt, you, and Mage, I have heavy suspicions that one, maybe two of you are elims. That group distrust is much stronger than, say, my distrust of Bard. But out of that large distrust, I pin it much more on you and Mage than on Burnt. And where did I say I'd lynch Burnt? I said just the opposite.

3. What have you done to clear yourself? If anything, I'm trusting you less and less. What made me initially suspicious of you is the quietness factor: until recently it seemed to me that you've been lying low, trying to avoid getting suspected, until Burnt called you out in front of everyone. And as for why the lynch is on you or Burnt, it's because I smelled a rat with that whole reveal: it seems strange to me that Doc would take an action as decisive as a kill and then not record it in his WhisperGem: even if it's something like "Tonight I'm IonBlading Mage". Also, my only suspicions not related to this Lopen/Burnt/Mage mess is a bad gut read on Bard, which isn't really much to go off of, so I'm searching for Forsworn where I'm almost positive they can be found.

I still have a lingering distrust about you associated with the Doc write-up, but your story does make sense for what happened, even if it isn't the most probable explanation. Doc hears you're an Arcos, somehow hears rumors of a Forsworn Arcos, goes vigilante, and gets killed by chance. However, an even-easier explanation is that you are a Forsworn Arcos that Doc somehow heard about. Another problem: how in the blazes did Doc hear about there possibly being a Forsworn Arcos in the first place? Did Wonko tell Doc before they both died? Did Doc have a Lune contact?

4. If there are any scan roles in the game, any at all, we need them to scan Mage and tell us what his alignment is. I don't want to waste an IonBlade on a villager, but if he's Forsworn we need to take him tomorrow with the IonBlades from the store.

I'm sorry if I'm being overaggressive; I'm just trying to ensure that the Forsworn can't pull out a win.

 

Does anyone else have anything to contribute about whether or not they find Lopen suspicious (@Burnt Spaghetti and any others who have PMs with Lopen especially)? I want to weigh all of the evidence before we lynch anyone rashly, like I did with DA. We need to get a Forsworn lynched and soon, because I have a feeling that if we don't we aren't going to last much longer.

 

My computer access for the next 11-or-so hours will be intermittent due to me going out of town and later a D&D game. I'll try to get on when I can, though, but don't expect copious amounts of activity.

Numbered to respond easier.

1. Ah, fair enough.

2. You didn't straight up say you'd lynch Burnt, but you put me and her forward for the lynch as if we were the best 2 options. Though, now that I look over that post again, I guess I could see how you were just talking about me, Mage, and Burnt as a separate group from everyone else, so I guess that makes sense to me now.

3. I didn't say I'd cleared myself. I said I feel like I've done more to clear myself than most other players. But again, my response was a reaction to you putting me, Mage, and Burnt in a group and acting as if we had to lynch someone out of that group, which I thought didn't make sense, and still don't really. Anyways, I questioned the trustworthiness of the Julii plan and I was right in that the Julii had not been cleared in any way, so any info we'd gain from it would only be useful after the Julii's death. Both El and Doc voiced fairly strong trust of me, which they put in their whisperGem's. I know confirmed good doesn't mean confirmed right(if anyone didn't know that before this game, they probably do now :P), but I still think it should count for something. I was honest about the situation with Doc and Mage. I don't know if Mage is Forsworn, but I laid out the facts as best I could. I guess that's not a lot of evidence for my alignment, but like I said, I feel like it's more than the majority of other players.

I don't see how the Mage/Burnt/Lopen stuff is a "mess." Doc told me some stuff and Burnt some of the same stuff and we've relayed that to the thread in a way that I thought was easy to understand. :P

4. There aren't any roles that scan alignment though. There's Lunes, but it only scans the House of a player, not their alignment. And I know Aman didn't say if there were any secret roles, but I do know that Aman isn't a fan of alignment scanners, so I really doubt there is one.

8 hours ago, Elenion said:

If you're really an Arcos, lynching you would mean the challenger's death, which we really don't need right now. :D And since both you and Lopen have claimed that you are an Arcos, I see no reason to doubt that, and so right now I'd say you're safe from the lynch. But as for night-kills, I can't make any guarantees about me or anyone else.

 

However, if we don't want to lynch Mage, who do we lynch? I've explained my reasoning for why we should lynch Lopen, but so far I have had no feedback as to whether or not that would be a good idea.

Well, I for one definitely don't think we should lynch me. :P But you raise a good point. Up until last Cycle, we had our lynches happen pretty easily. Now we don't really have a great direction to go. If we can't come up with a great lynch target, it might be a good idea to target an inactive/lurker. I haven't been keeping up too great with who's lurking, but I'll look over everyone's online times and when the last time they posted so we can have a better picture of everyone's activity. I'll try to get that up pretty quickly.

4 hours ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

I'm thinking that Mage is an Elim, but how do we kill an Arcos?

Even though I don't think it's a good idea to try and lynch Mage, I'm curious to hear your opinion on why you think Mage is an elim.

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1 hour ago, TheMightyLopen said:

I don't see how the Mage/Burnt/Lopen stuff is a "mess." Doc told me some stuff and Burnt some of the same stuff and we've relayed that to the thread in a way that I thought was easy to understand. :P

The "mess" is the mental conundrum that my paranoid mind has me in :D: if you are village and Burnt is village, Mage is probably elim; if you are elim and Burnt is village, Mage is village; if you are village and Burnt is elim, Mage is probably elim... and so on. That was the mess that I was referring to, although I do agree that I didn't articulate it well at the time.

1 hour ago, TheMightyLopen said:

There aren't any roles that scan alignment though. There's Lunes, but it only scans the House of a player, not their alignment. And I know Aman didn't say if there were any secret roles, but I do know that Aman isn't a fan of alignment scanners, so I really doubt there is one.

Sorry; for some reason I thought that a Lune could scan alignment as well as role.

1 hour ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Well, I for one definitely don't think we should lynch me. :P

The way that you have defended yourself--logos instead of pathos--and Mage's claim that he is, in fact, actually Arcos have made me more trusting of you. If you are an elim, you're doing a very good job. My read on you is now at 60% village, up from 40% at the beginning of this cycle.

 


 

1 hour ago, TheMightyLopen said:

If we can't come up with a great lynch target, it might be a good idea to target an inactive/lurker. I haven't been keeping up too great with who's lurking, but I'll look over everyone's online times and when the last time they posted so we can have a better picture of everyone's activity.

I've kept up a basic idea of who's active and who's not. This is what I remember off of the top of my head.

Inactive: 1x or less per turn

Less-active: 1-2 times per turn (or semi-active but RP only)

Semi-active: 3-4 times per turn (or less active but with long posts)

Active: 5+ times per turn (or high contribution but in fewer posts)

 

Assassin in Burgundy as The Jackal: Less-active now, previously inactive.

Magestar as Lucius: Active.

Jondesu as Quintus: Semi-active if RL isn't in the way.

AliasSheep as Nirgal: Semi-active except for this cycle.

I_am_a_Stick as Stick: Less-active/inactive border.

The_Lady_of_Chaos as Tenebrum: Inactive.

Elenion as Khazad: Active now, previously semi-active.

The Young Bard as Gregor: Semi-active now, less-active before.

TheMightyLopen as Priam: Semi-active. Previously inactive.

Burnt Spaghetti as Tia: Less-active or inactive.

Straw as Morsde: Has he even posted? :ph34r:

jefrywlfersn as Jefry: Inactive

 


 

Basically, we've got 12 players left alive. Of them  3 (Chaos, Jefry, Straw) are completely inactive, 3 (Assassin, Stick, Burnt) are less-active, 4 (Lopen, Jondesu, Sheep, Bard) are semi-active, and 2 (Len, Mage) are active.

If we do lynch an inactive, I'd suggest we lynch Straw: I don't remember seeing one post of his in the game so far. I'd cast the vote myself, but Bard hasn't greened my name yet, so we're still officially in a duel.

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I PMed Lopen yesterday and he told me why Doc and El thought he was innocent and it's fairly conclusive.  I also have reason to believe that Burnt is innocent.  That leaves, out of your list, Len, only Mage.  I was also suspicious about Bard the other day and I challenged him in PM over it - the fact that he then revealed this to the thread later is what makes me less suspicious.  If he was an elim I don't think he would have wanted to give the village fuel for accusations further down the line.  Then again [IKYK].

I'm okay with lynching an inactive, but I'd rather we lynch chaos.  They were on early but only posting RP.  At least if we lynched her we'd know if that was trying to maintain the pretense of being villagery whilst as an elim or not.

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I accept your apology, Elenion. Sorry for not mentioning it before.

Regarding whether I trust Lopen - I'm neutral on Lopen from a first-hand perspective, but I'm fairly certain I trust Burnt, which makes me less likely to trust Lopen and Mage. So... I don't know. I completely misread Lopen in LG25, which is the last game he was a full Eliminator, so... I'm not really the one to ask.

IIRC, Straw posted when I made a rather ironic post about inactives to say that RL stuff had come up and that he wasn't going to be able to play. I was waiting to see if Aman could find a pinch-hitter to replace him.

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I've got a chance to log on quickly and read over this, and I like the conclusions we're heading towards. Mind if I do the honors, fellows? I'd like some merit so I can more successfully work on tactics to challenge Mage, if he's truly Forsworn, or if there's another Arcos out there.

---

"Tenebrum au [redacted], you dithonor your liethge by thitting quietly while your fellow lanthers die around you. Your loyalthy is unclear; anthwer my challenge or fall at my feet."

Quintus strove to keep the lisp at bay, but the surges of emotions during the last few days had cost him his self-control. He knew of only one way to bring these attacks under control. All lancers must prove their loyalty or face him in battle.

His razor lay coiled at his side, but he lifted it towards Tenebrum as he spoke, punctuating the challenge so it's meaning couldn't be missed.

"Do you therve Tiberius, or nay?" 

At least I managed to say Tiberius' name without the lisp, he thought.

Edited by Jondesu
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18 hours ago, Elenion said:

Another problem: how in the blazes did Doc hear about there possibly being a Forsworn Arcos in the first place? Did Wonko tell Doc before they both died? Did Doc have a Lune contact?

I think it's likely, knowing Doc, that he just grilled Wonko until something slipped.  Judging by the fact that that was obviously what he was trying to do with me.  Except there was nothing to let slip.  <_<

I can get behind the Tenebrum lynch, although I'm somewhat unsure about it.  I still feel as though we need to kill someone more prominent.  But at this point, I'm really having troube thinking of anyone.  Jondesu.  I hope this works out.

I'll try and post a list of my main suspicions later today, if I have time.  Off the top of my head, Burnt, Len, and Bard are up there, but I'll have to look over the thread to make sure.

edit;  Wonko could also have been attempting to mislead Doc, but I think it's likely that the Elims have a Arcos.

Edited by Magestar
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I guess I'm good with Chaos; it's basically the same as lynching Straw but with a greater possibility of success. In the last QF Chaos and I were PM-buddies, and even when DA was obviously an elim she chose to lurk instead of putting her vote down; so I could definitely see elim!Chaos try to go under the radar through inactivity.

Jondesu

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Look, i haven't playing much lately because i've had so much because i'm just beginning freshman year, and i haven't gotten used to the amount of stress that's been going on around me at home. I am a faithful Lune, i haven't asked about most of the people so i only have a few figured out. I can see why i'm being seen as suspicious and part of me wants to let this happen because it would remove one more thing for me to worry about, but my brother will be extremely upset with me if i just die. You can lynch me if you want. It'd probably be doing me a favor, but i do realise that it wouldn't be helping you guys, so i'm going to defend myself because i don't want my incompetence to affect if the faithfuls can win or lose.

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"I serve Tiberius!! i swear!! i just don't know what i could talk in this situation. I don't know what to do!! I'm scared! I'm not talking because i'm terrified of what might happen if i do!! Ok! it that i good enough answer for you!!" I broke down into tears and fell to the ground crying. "I don't want to die, but i don't know how to live! I've always been relying on Jefry! He's the only reason i'm still alive! I'm not talking because i don't know what to say and i'm terrified that what ever i say will get me killed or worse!! Even at the instatue, he was there to save me, and i would not have gotten anywhere near this far without the people around me. And yet, i don't know how to do anything! I'm stuck relying on other people!"

Edited by The_Lady_of_Chaos
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Quintus narrowed his eyes at Tenebrum's weeping defense of her silence.  He wasn't convinced, but perhaps she wasn't much of a danger anyway.  On the other hand…

"Your brother, you thay?" He swung the razor in Jefry's direction, next to her seat.

"Perhapth your thither's life ith held ranthom againtht your cooperathion?  Or perhapth you hail from a thimilar family, and Darrow's unorthodoxth methodth appeal to you ath well? Jefry…" Quintus rolled his mouth around the uncommon name. "Another unuthual name, like Darrow.  Maybe you found appeal in your thimilaritieths?"

"Do you therve Tiberius, or do you hold allegienth to Nero au Auguthuth." He practically sneered as he said the name of the ArchGovernor's rival, making no effort to avoid the lisp as he did with Tiberius' name.


Wow, that lisp is weird to write.  I don't think I'll be using that character trait again. Let me know if anything I wrote is too tough to interpret through the lisp and I'll interpret.

I'm not retracting my accusation against you just yet, Chaos, but I want to see how others feel.  We can try the other inactives if we're convinced, but I still feel the reasoning behind choosing Chaos over jefry or Straw is relatively sound.  It feels like a bit of a shot in the dark either way, though (and perhaps Chaos would truly be grateful if we let her step away from the game. :))

Edited by Jondesu
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