September 18, 2016 - cadebengert - Darkness: Chapters 1-5 (5600 words)

[cadebengert]

So, this is a portion of the first draft of my YA novel. The chapters are short right now, but I have plans to return to them later and flesh them out.

The novel does deal with themes of depression, suicide, and mental illness, so if these are sensitive issues for you, read at your own discretion.
 

Thanks!

[Hobbit]

Hello cadebengert!  Welcome to the forum and congrats on your first submission!

I think the biggest strength of your piece is the main character.  The first chapter was really good, and it effectively got me into the character's head.  It was also very dark, very intense, which of course is a good thing, since I'm assuming that's the tone you were going for.

Here are some story structure concerns:

I agree with Ernei that chapters 2-5 didn't fit the tone of the first one.  I appreciated having a happier scene when we meet the MC's best friend in chapter 2, since I needed a mental break from all the tension of chapter 1, but after that I was getting confused about what kind of story you were writing.  I think readers will expect a grittier, darker story from your first chapter, but your next few chapters don't go back to that.

My other biggest critique is that the chapters could use more of a through-plot.  I feel like we're spending a lot of time getting to know the characters without any main plot to up the tension for us.  My guess, from chapter 5, is that the main plot is going to involve Tyler and Brent figuring out how to fight crime with their super powers while Tyler starts learning how to manage his depression.  Is this right?  As we get closer to this as readers, we still need conflict to carry us along.  You've introduced a lot of potential for conflict, with the bully, the math teacher, and Tyler's depression, but none of it turns into an ongoing conflict that would raise the tension for us.  And I know this is really hard to do with a depressed character, since some of the effects of depression are not being able to motivate yourself to do things and having a lack of desire for anything, and a lot of what drives plot is the main character doing things and wanting things.

A few other things that are smaller surface-level edits:

• Be careful of telling us too much (like telling us all of Brent's backstory with Tyler, or the paragraph that starts with "To the casual passer-by...").  After the first chapter, where you did such a good job letting us see Tyler's depression, you don't need to remind us quite as often of how depressed he is in the future.  And the pieces of backstory are more fun to read about when they get worked in slowly, rather than all at once in a paragraph.
• At the beginning of junior high (12 years old-ish for us in the states, not sure if that's where your characters are), the average boy weighs 90 pounds.  So saying that Brent is really small in junior high and then giving his weight at 100 pounds threw me off.  (https://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41l021.pdf)
• Ernei already caught the present tense slips.  I think sometimes you were trying to write these as thoughts, but maybe if they're direct thoughts from Tyler, put them in italics?  I think there are different schools of "thought" on this though (hahaha see what I did there?).
• Metahumans is what they call them in the Flash TV show... which I'm binge watching right now.  I'm not sure if that's a problem for you, but when I read "metahumans" I immediately wondered if you were trying to make a connection to the TV show.

I liked the cone of vision insight about teachers.  I'll just add that not only do teachers have a cone of vision, but they often look at one side of the room more than the other.  I taught for a few years, and I unconsciously favored looking to the right side of the class over the left.  It's partly because I'm writing on the board with my right hand, so I turn to the left and end up looking at the right side (my right not the students') of the classroom first.  Just a thought for more flavoring.

Oh, and I'll just tag @Ernei and mention that people-watching is a specific phrase that's referencing making a hobby or an activity out of watching people.  Sometimes it's hyphenated but I've also seen it as just "people watching."

You've got a strong main character and an interesting world.  Plot fleshing-out would make it better!

[cadebengert]

4 hours ago, Ernei said:

p.6 - OK, so I see I wasn't right. There is paranormal stuff. So I'm glad because I like paranormal stuff, though I guess readers who don't like it would be disappointed. I am, however, puzzled - is it the first suicidal attempt of the MC? Didn't he know that he would only suffer more pain, and if he did, then why would he do it anyway? Also, why does he have scars on his arms if he can heal from any injury? And I mean it - having scars suggests very limited regeneration, not much better than our own, even if faster.

Other than that, chapter 1 was all right. I don't see any need of making it longer, it would most likely feel too drawn-out. The idea of a person who want to but can't die is interesting; I have come across it already, but it's the first time it applies to the MC. I would suggest using it to make a hook sentence at the beginning - it's not bad as it is, but this way you could "fish" your reader even better, I think  

Come now, "I couldn’t figure out how to explain how I discovered my powers" is a weak excuse. He could always said that he cut himself by accident but the blood didn't show up, or that he fell from stairs and should have break a bone but didn't, or anything like this. He could simply say that he doesn't get injured and/or sick, but doesn't know the exact extent of his powers. If you really don't want Brent to know that MC is a MetaHuman too, I suggest coming up with a stronger excuse (though I personally don't see one, especially when MC feels he should have told him).

p.11 " I grinned slightly, " - take me with a grain of salt (I'm not native), but grinning slightly sounds odd to me. Grin is a wide smile, is it not? How can you smile widely but slightly? Also, MC doesn't seem as depressed as he did in the first chapter. He said something about not feeling joy for a long time, but now he seems to get along with a friend well enough.

 

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it

Yea... my tense needs some work lol

The first bolded section is discussed later. Long story short, the scars are from before his powers manifested, and he keeps trying to kill himself because he desperately wants it to work.

Second bolded section: I think this is more fault with me saying he hadn't felt joy in a long time, than the later chapters. I've fought clinical suicidal depression for years, and its not that you are never happy, but more that you weigh the bad times far more heavily, and they come far more frequently. You still have happy moments, but they are few and far between. I want it to be realistic, so I think I have to change that initial statement. Thanks for bringing this to my attention

[cadebengert]

40 minutes ago, Hobbit said:

Hello cadebengert!  Welcome to the forum and congrats on your first submission!

I think the biggest strength of your piece is the main character.  The first chapter was really good, and it effectively got me into the character's head.  It was also very dark, very intense, which of course is a good thing, since I'm assuming that's the tone you were going for.

Here are some story structure concerns:

I agree with Ernei that chapters 2-5 didn't fit the tone of the first one.  I appreciated having a happier scene when we meet the MC's best friend in chapter 2, since I needed a mental break from all the tension of chapter 1, but after that I was getting confused about what kind of story you were writing.  I think readers will expect a grittier, darker story from your first chapter, but your next few chapters don't go back to that.

My other biggest critique is that the chapters could use more of a through-plot.  I feel like we're spending a lot of time getting to know the characters without any main plot to up the tension for us.  My guess, from chapter 5, is that the main plot is going to involve Tyler and Brent figuring out how to fight crime with their super powers while Tyler starts learning how to manage his depression.  Is this right?  As we get closer to this as readers, we still need conflict to carry us along.  You've introduced a lot of potential for conflict, with the bully, the math teacher, and Tyler's depression, but none of it turns into an ongoing conflict that would raise the tension for us.  And I know this is really hard to do with a depressed character, since some of the effects of depression are not being able to motivate yourself to do things and having a lack of desire for anything, and a lot of what drives plot is the main character doing things and wanting things.

A few other things that are smaller surface-level edits:

• Be careful of telling us too much (like telling us all of Brent's backstory with Tyler, or the paragraph that starts with "To the casual passer-by...").  After the first chapter, where you did such a good job letting us see Tyler's depression, you don't need to remind us quite as often of how depressed he is in the future.  And the pieces of backstory are more fun to read about when they get worked in slowly, rather than all at once in a paragraph.
• At the beginning of junior high (12 years old-ish for us in the states, not sure if that's where your characters are), the average boy weighs 90 pounds.  So saying that Brent is really small in junior high and then giving his weight at 100 pounds threw me off.  (https://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41l021.pdf)
• Ernei already caught the present tense slips.  I think sometimes you were trying to write these as thoughts, but maybe if they're direct thoughts from Tyler, put them in italics?  I think there are different schools of "thought" on this though (hahaha see what I did there?).
• Metahumans is what they call them in the Flash TV show... which I'm binge watching right now.  I'm not sure if that's a problem for you, but when I read "metahumans" I immediately wondered if you were trying to make a connection to the TV show.

I liked the cone of vision insight about teachers.  I'll just add that not only do teachers have a cone of vision, but they often look at one side of the room more than the other.  I taught for a few years, and I unconsciously favored looking to the right side of the class over the left.  It's partly because I'm writing on the board with my right hand, so I turn to the left and end up looking at the right side (my right not the students') of the classroom first.  Just a thought for more flavoring.

You've got a strong main character and an interesting world.  Plot fleshing-out would make it better!

Thanks for the comments you gave me lots to think about.

Whoops. Put in his current size in place for junior high weight. Thanks for the catch lol

Didn't realize that for metahuman. I'll have to come up with something else.

I'm actually just finishing up my teaching degree. That's where I first realized the cone of vision thing myself lol.

[kais]

Welcome to the forum! As an aside, if this is a finished work and is #ownvoices, you could pitch it during the upcoming #DVpit!

Overall

There are a fair number of cliches throughout, and no clear purpose or plot. Clearing up both of those issues would really make this a strong piece. I agree that your first chapter was the strongest, but it needs some reformatting as well. Also, note that this submission has a distinct gender imbalance, and does not pass the Bechdel Test. 

Great to have you here! Can't wait to see where edits take you!

As I go

- tense change, page four

- page six and before: a lot of tears here that just crop up without warning

- this metahuman part at the end doesn't have much impact. You might want to move it sooner, or even make it your opening line. Right now there isn't any context for why we care about this protag. Yes, they are depressed, but what is the purpose of us seeing this particular scene? 

- page nine: it'd be more fun if you didn't come out and say Bret is a meta. Rather, show us through more imagery like the mist

- page twelve: half way through, and I'm still not certain what the journey is here, or plot

- page 14: the red head is the bully? This along, with many of the other people descriptions, is really cliche. Considering varying up some things to keep it fresh

- page sixteen: still not sure where this is going

- page sixteen: This is where students usually waited for the bus after school, ate their lunch on nice days, or made-out with their girlfriend that week <--- are students only male? Check the implicit bias here please

- page 22: so wait, is Brent also black? Is that the purpose of the 'literally black and white' comment earlier?

- page 27: weren't they having taco salad, not chicken parmesan?

 

 

[AuthorityHellas16]

Welcome to Reading Excuses. I'm sure you'll get heaps of great advice here.

First of, you've picked a tough topic to tackle in mental illness. Having incorporated proper depictions (rather than Hollywood psychology) of mental illness in my own work, I can attest to how difficult it is. So I'm interested to see how you go with this. 

Overall:

I'm sure you intended for this, but this is an incredibly disturbing piece of work. The characters pain is very visceral, and the detail you have gone into makes me think of personal experience (my sincere condolences if that's true). While it's well done from an awareness point of view, as a narrative, it's hard to get into because it's so overwhelmingly bleak. 

I think you need to be very careful to avoid Tyler becoming a Sympathy Sue, that is someone whose life is so relentlessly, superfluously tragic simply to gain sympathy from the reader. He's teetering on the edge at the moment. 

As I go:

• The initial section is a little meandering. You give good descriptions of the main character, but without much sense of purpose. If you're trying to capture the aimlessness of your character, then I think it works well
• "About as thick as an earthworm." I like this description, because it prevents you having to resort to numbers, which are hard to visualise
• There's a repetitive focus on how the character lacks joy, how he could vividly remember his scars, how he's not taking care of himself, how he can't sleep. While these are all potential hallmarks of mental illness, the far greater marker is not sadness but apathy, a complete lack of feeling anything. People with major depression lack hobbies, energy, the will to eat (which makes the weight gain thing a little odd; perhaps make him skin and bones?). You have a golden opportunity with the dirty room to comment on how the character may want to clean the room in a cerebral sense, but can never be bothered to/muster up the energy to do it. Not only would this be an interesting frame of mind to capture, but it would also help dispel the widespread (and damaging) belief that depression is simply being really really sad. 
• Oh, MetaHuman. This got interesting! A well done twist. 
• An interesting potential here (and it's quite common in the real world too) is to have Tyler unaware that he is unwell. In medical terms we call it a lack of "insight" into his condition. I mention this for a couple of reasons: the repeated mentions of when Tyler was "happy" and how he's "mentally ill" do come across as a bit heavy handed after a while. Having him unaware of his illness would force you to be a bit more subtle with this aspect. It would also be a good source of conflict; how would Tyler's parents and Brent react to him slowly tearing himself apart, but when they talk to him he's unable to comprehend what they're worried about?
• I reckon Brent should really have to drag Tyler over if you want to illustrate his anhedonism. The offer of food shouldn't be enough
• "Math class. Also known as the bane of my existence." After vividly illustrating how cruel and bleak Tyler's life is, the usual schoolyard drama seems a little pale by comparison. 
• "Apparently another side effect is sarcastic conversations with yourself." It seems your going for an internal monologue in places here. An interesting choice, but this style is quite hard to pull of when you have to describe what the character's doing. And the shift between the usual first person perspective and the internal monologue can be jarring in places.
• "James Hurley." While it's a fact that kids with mental illness do tend to get bullied more (which fractures their already fragile mental state) again, it all seems a little trivial compared to Tyler's existential crisis
• "Ms Frizzle." Kudos for the Magic School Bus reference (loved that show as a kid!)
• As someone with two autistic brothers, I think your portrayal of Dylan is bang on. When I first read he was "autistic," I was readying myself for another "rainman" knock-off. But Dylan is just like my little brother; relentlessly positive and happy and able to express himself and emote even if he can't form words. But at the same time, that makes him no more or less of a human being than anyone else. Kudos to you, good sir. 
• I like your description of Brent's powers. 
• The forest walk is very interesting, and a nice break from the bleak, but again, it does take away from Tyler's dark life if he can be so readily cheered up.  

This was hard to get through, if I'm honest. The writing was fine, but the subject matter was very very dark. You did a good job of achieving that, but it did make it difficult to engage. I'd be interested to see what you did when you fill the story out; I hope that Tyler gets some direction in his life. 

[cadebengert]

@AuthorityHellas16 Thank you so much for the feedback!

I felt that giving the reader a break from the really dark material of the first chapter was a good idea, as I didn't want to bog them down too much. The chapter following this is another fairly dark one, explaining his first attempt, and how he discovered his powers.

I do draw from personal experience, so that helps me bring some realism into those sections. I want it to be gritty and disturbing, because that's what its like to live it. I hope I don't go overboard with it.

I also take breaks from the hard stuff with splashes of trivial conflicts to address the misconception that people with depression are all "doom and gloom" all the time. In my experience, this isn't true. They get quite good at faking happiness, and often times do actually feel happy. They just have trouble recognizing those moments retrospectively, weighing the bad more than the good. I'm kinda planning for all these trivial matters to further steamroll and build, compounding the really dark feelings. 

I'm glad you approve of Dylan! He's a lot of fun to write. I was worried that I wasn't getting the nuances quite right, as I don't have a whole lot of personal experiences with kids with autism, and I didn't want to offend anyone by getting it wrong, especially with his speech.

 

Thanks again for the feedback. I really appreciate it

[Robinski]

Hello and belated welcome (from me) to Reading Excuses. Sorry this is so late but, on the plus side, I'm caught up now. (Bully for me!) I'm always interested to ‘pick up’ a new submitter’s work. It must be that sense of the unexpected! I’ll do notes as I read then sum up at the end. From the off, I like the idea of relatively short chapters, however the title did nothing to stimulate my interest.

Chapter 1

• Paragraph 1 – there’s enough to keep me reading. No hook, but a nice line or two. I get a clear and engaging voice, despite the dark tone.
• Page 1 – yes, some nice lines laced with dark, fatalistic humour that I still find engaging. I'm on board for the moment.
• “Thin red veins of stretch marks” – I would have said stretch marks are usually thicker than veins. I guess they can differ but, at 50, believe me, I know whereof I speak.
• “about as thick as an earthworm” – creepy image, nice.
• “an old desaturated photo” – my head said ‘faded?’
• “The loop went over my head and around my neck” – this sounds once removed, like he’s not placing it himself.
• “I could see my feet inches from the end of the chair” – edge? I never think of a chair having an end.
• “The room faded, my eyes dropped, and I fell still and unconscious…” – This kind of thing is a POV cheat, I always think. He would not be conscious at the point his body stilled.
• “and poured tears from my eyes” – it’s not really a conscious decision to pour the tears out.
• Personally, I think the ending his more impact without the last line. But, a good punch line. Certainly keen to keep reading.

Chapter 2

• “donned in shirts” – donned means ‘put on’ (i.e. the shirt), I’m thinking ‘garbed’, which means dressed in.
• “He seemed content with this, so I was too” – This sort of thing is good characterisation. With 4 words, you say so much more about Tyler’s character.
•  Another good, snappy chapter, expanding on the background and the character, filling in details of his life, his abilities and the world around him. Nice work.

Chapter 3

• “I don’t like how there is only a single “correct” answer.” – Hmm, not strictly true in some instances, I think.
• “leaving the outliers like me to dedicate our class time to pursuits other than the finer points of mathematics” – I'm very much enjoying your narrative. It has an efficient yet colourful flow to it that is pleasing. Very few superfluous words, everything is working to create character, setting and tone. I like it.
• “landing on the moon with Anna Kendrick and celebrating our honeymoon” – lol, however the thing that occurs to me in cases like this is, will anyone remember Anna Kendrick in 20/30 years time? Lee and Kirby – undoubtedly, but I always think be wary of pop culture references that are obscure enough to not work for a proportion of the readers. Secondly, he could do better. I'm thinking Anne Hathaway, but I will stop now
• James Hurley – lol. James is an important character in (original) Twin Peaks. I'm interested if you know this or not? I could easily see you as a Lynch fan!!  
• “being eighteen in Alberta” – Ah ha. This jarred slightly, as if I expected to know where we were before now. Strange.
• “the abuse became more verbal than emotional” – physical?
• “Who knows?” – question.
• For me, your portrait of Mr. Jeremy is entertaining and, almost, lyrical. Very nicely done.

Chapter 4

• “or made-out with their girlfriend of that week” – I think, and “they the only people around were teenagers smoking and drinking from paper bag-covered bottles” – hyphen conventionally used for compound adjectives.
• “while people watching watched”
• A solid chapter, I enjoyed it, but it felt slower. No bad thing. We learn more about the setting and about the people around Tyler that he cares for. I get a nice picture of small town living** (see below). My wife is from Creston, B.C., so I know something about this, despite being and Glasgow, Scotland city boy. The thing is, good as the writing and the set-up are, I'm beginning to hanker for some plot.

Chapter 5

• “Are Dragon Ball Z references dated now?” – Yes, but I’ll allow it
• “I had super strength” – Whoa, whoa, whoa – you're going to have to explain that one. Being ‘immortal’ is one thing, but where did the super strength come from? Are we talking bending iron bars, leaping tall buildings in a single stride? That was not trailed at all, so I feel a bit peeved if that is what we are talking about. If this is the situation, I think you need to hang and lantern on the ‘late’ revelation of this fact here.
• “Stephan Hawking” – Stephen Hawking
• “which was always a pleasant sound” – pleasing? Or not.
• “breaking it town down to mere ideas”
• “Rain check on the chicken parmesan” – continuity, it was taco salad before.
• ** “started towards the subway station a few blocks away” – Ha ha, so we’re actually in Edmonton. My mental image was of somewhere much smaller, and I slipped into that assumption, even though you mentioned Edmonton before. I guess I just assumed we were in the burbs, but when the subway station ‘appeared’, I found it jarring.
• “What good was being able to poke my finger through a brick wall if all I wanted to do was put a bullet through my skull?” – So, he does have super strength, I did not pick that up before and feel that it wasn’t trailed with the invulnerability thing near the beginning.

Well, I really enjoyed that, I thought it was well written with a strong voice and clear narrative line. I’ve learned all I need to know (I feel) at this stage of the story, and I am now hungry for plot. My main quibble is that I felt like the super strength was not really revealed at the beginning along with the invulnerability thing, which felt slightly like a small cheat.

Also, it’s a little surprising that he can’t see an application for super strength, of which there are many. However, I think I can overlook that easily enough, as a result of his depression and not being able to see worth in himself.

The other thing I would note again is that, personally, I think you've gone as far as you can without introducing plot. We’ve come through five entertaining and interesting chapters, and have followed a nice arc from Tyler’s house back to Tyler’s house. Now we need some story.

Very much looking forward to the next submission. Great job.

<R>

 

[Robinski]

On 19/09/2016 at 7:29 AM, cadebengert said:

The chapters are short right now, but I have plans to return to them later and flesh them out.

Nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

Don't do it, seriously, they are perfect length right now. Perfect.

[Robinski]

On 19/09/2016 at 5:17 PM, Hobbit said:

I agree with Ernei that chapters 2-5 didn't fit the tone of the first one.

Strongly disagree. The tone / mood of a character in the dark, small hours of the night will be completely different from that in the daily routine. I don't think there is any issue with through tone.

On 19/09/2016 at 5:17 PM, Hobbit said:

My other biggest critique is that the chapters could use more of a through-plot.

Again, to me, the through-plot of Ch1 to 5 is learning about the character, but I agree we need story now.

On 19/09/2016 at 5:17 PM, Hobbit said:

You've got a strong main character and an interesting world.  Plot fleshing-out would make it better!

Yes. But, as noted above, I think you have five chapters here that the reader can clip through at a good pace and quickly become immersed in the character and the setting. I would be sad to think that you would go back a load more words into these chapters, slowing down the direct delivery of tone, style, character and setting. I do agree on the story point though. For my part, I would suggest lacing some story details into Chapter 5, maybe Chapter 4 - but just hints for the reader to pick up, not full on exposition.

I think this is excellent first draft work, and I would not tamper with it significantly.

[cadebengert]

Thanks so much for the feedback @Robinski I really appreciate it