Theories about what did Kaladin do to Szeth's Honorblade

[goody153]

So as we know at the end of WoR after Kaladin defeated Szeth, he took the honorblade and after he presented it to Dalinar(where he got caught off because of Navani demanding if Kaladin had seen the King) we were left in the dark as to what Kaladin did with Jezrein's honorblade. Here are some possibilities that i've thought (some/most of them might be common theories)

1. Kaladin gave it to Dalinar and Dalinar just hid it somewhere in fear of the risk that another person might get a hold of it like Szeth did. 
2. Kaladin gave it to Dalinar in which he gave it to Elokhar or Adolin or somebody else. 
3. Kaladin informed Dalinar of it but they decided that Kaladin keeps and bonding with it but never ending up summoning it (cause he already has surgebinding and he has Syl for shardblade necessity which is just a better version than honorblades) which would probably also possibly explain as to why Kaladin ran out of Stormlight just by flying all the way from Urithru to Heartstone(just a they that Kaladin shoud've reached there without draining all of his stormlight) due to the more than normal amount of consumption due to the compouding effects of having both Windrunner and Honorblade stormlight usage.
4. Kaladin informed it Dalinar of it and Dalinar kept it (would be really useful since stormfather is unwilling to become his personal shardblade as the current time of the story) since he can't wield shardblades and it was under Kaladin's suggestion(also makes sense since Kaladin trusts him).
5. Wit stole it (unlikely cause he was found to be with Jasnah at the end).
6. Kaladin informed Dalinar about it and he made bridge four stash the blade for him.

Thoughts ? I'd like to hear about your theories as well if you have one. 

[maxal]

Let's see...

1) Kaladin giving it to Dalinar is highly probable, but I doubt Dalinar would hide it or stash it anywhere.

2) Providing Kaladin gave it to Dalinar to dispose as he sees fit, I definitely see him giving it to Elhokar. Dalinar has a bias when it comes to his nephew: he would favor him over his own son. Still, it'd be nice to witness Dalinar trying to give it to Adolin only to have Adolin refuse it. I'd love to read this. Either way, Adolin is not bonding this Honorblade.

3) Highly unlikely. Kaladin has always refused to bond any Shardblade, I don't see him making an exception for the Honorblade. Besides, if he did bond the Honorblade, it wouldn't draw on his stormlight unless he summons it.

4) It goes with 2), I do see it as a probable outcome. Dalinar has no Blade, it may be decided he should keep this one.

5) No. He isn't around.

6) Also likely, but a Honorblade lying around might be a too strong incentive. After Moash, it may be Kaladin won't trust Bridge 4 as readily as he once did. 

My thoughts are thus Kaladin most probably gave it to Dalinar to decide what to do with it. 

[The One Who Connects]

I almost expect to find out at the end of Book 4 that Lopen has it.  I see it as fully within Brandon's writing capability to make it work.

On the assumption that Jezrien is still alive, the location of his Honorblade is going to be important.

As a side note, do you imagine giving Dalinar the Honorblade of an adjacent order (Double Adhesion) would make his Full Lashings stronger?  Edit: forgot about that WoB

Edited September 18, 2016 by The One Who Connects

[Yata]

2 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

As a side note, do you imagine giving Dalinar the Honorblade of an adjacent order (Double Adhesion) would make his Full Lashings stronger?

WoB about

Quote

QUESTION

If a Windrunner picked up that blade, would their abilities be enhanced?

BRANDON SANDERSON

There would be some compounding but strength is not as much an issue with surgebinding as is the strength of the spren bond and how much Stormlight you are using.

 

[geralt]

So what benefit (if any) would Kaladin get out of bonding with the Honorblade anyways? He already possesses the surges it would grant him and dualwielding, as cool as it would be, sounds like it would be more of a waste of stormlight than an advantage. Unless it increases the power or efficiency of lashings drastically, it would be best if he left it to Dalinar for protecting himself.

 

Although, I just thought of how awesome it would be to see Kaladin hold a shardshield (basically Syl transforming into a shield) in one hand and the honorblade in the other... 

[+hwiles]

My money is on the blade being given to Teft, or maybe someone else from Bridge Four.  They are on their way to becoming Dalinar's most effective and loyal soldiers, they're cultivating strong personal and emotional connections to the KR, and some of them have strong enough moral fiber that they stand a chance at resisting the temptation of power not bound by a spren.  Granted, Szeth was pretty confident about the Stone Shamans coming to successfully collect his blade once he lost it.  I'm guessing they have a way of knowing Szeth doesn't have it and they're probably fully prepared to murder whoever is in their way to get it back...

1.  This theory is plausible, but it's sort of lacking in flavor and conflict in my opinion.

2.  The blade's surges would interfere with Elhokar's shardplate, and he doesn't really have time to train up to Szeth's level of combat prowess with the whole running a kingdom thing.  As far as security goes I think Elhokar would be safer with shardplate and a regular blade than an Honorblade.  One of his guards could get it though certainly.

3.  Absolutely a possibility.  Kaladin doesn't trust easily and could totally keep it himself to avoid having to deal with the possibility of someone he cares about inadvertently misusing it (IE: he could be afraid of a repeat of the Moash situation)

4.  Dalinar is supposed to be stepping back from his position as a warlord and front line soldier.  I could see this happening, but I kind of feel like it would undermine his personal struggles and sacrifices.  He willingly gave up his plate and blade so he could focus on being a better prince.  Plausible though.

5.  This would be hilarious, but I suspect if Wit ever steals a blade it will be the blade of Elsecallers to improve his ability to enter Shadesmar and allow him to make his own metals for allomancy.

6.  Plausible and would probably lead to some members of Bridge Four being attacked by Stone Shamans, which would make for a series of dramatic and emotional scenes.

[PantsForSquares]

While we're on this topic, I asked Brandon something related to the Honorblades, and got a neat little piece of information. I'd completely forgotten about it until today, but here you guys go.

There's minor Oathbringer spoilers, though, so open the spoiler at a small, small risk (considering that I didn't  get RAFO'd, it's not really that significant).

Spoiler

 

[Yata]

Well your information mean that the Honorblade is still at Urithiru..Or they can't do what it is the spoiler.

Therefore Kal has not the Honorblade with him

[Argel]

That definitely sounds more like Dalinar has it. With the KRs now revealed, I have a hard time believing it would leave their ranks at this early juncture and it certainly makes sense for Dalinar to have it since he doesn't have Nahal bond style shardblade (though if the Stormfather did turn into a blade, that would be impressive).

[Yata]

18 minutes ago, Argel said:

That definitely sounds more like Dalinar has it. With the KRs now revealed, I have a hard time believing it would leave their ranks at this early juncture and it certainly makes sense for Dalinar to have it since he doesn't have Nahal bond style shardblade (though if the Stormfather did turn into a blade, that would be impressive).

Yeah I find the more likely option....And this made Dalinar a Surgebinder with 3 Surges

[ScarletSabre]

I personally think Dalinar would give it over to Navani, since she's the foremost Artifabrian in the world, and now has something that's not only a Shardblade, but that gives Surgebinding to the bonder, to learn from and try to recreate. Add that with the fact that Shallan is a female KR, destroying conventions of women not being Shardbearers, and that nobody would suspect her of having it, I can imagine Dalinar giving it to her to protect herself with, and to hide. And her to bully him into letting her study it ^-^

[goody153]

1 hour ago, PantsForSquares said:

While we're on this topic, I asked Brandon something related to the Honorblades, and got a neat little piece of information. I'd completely forgotten about it until today, but here you guys go.

There's minor Oathbringer spoilers, though, so open the spoiler at a small, small risk (considering that I didn't  get RAFO'd, it's not really that significant).

  Hide contents

 

Well there goes my theory about Kaladin wielding the blade lol I suppose this means Dalinar has it. (there's also a possibility they tried this later assuming Kaladin managed to get back to Urithru and not stuck somewhere).

Thanks for the WoB man

edit: 

The spoilers has some really good possibility for potential conflict in the future when it comes to Honorblades 

Spoiler

since if it works for Honorblades i can certainly some of the more malevolent forces or groups trying to get his hand on the honorblades sneaking people in

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by goody153

[The One Who Connects]

1 minute ago, Rawrbert said:

I personally think Dalinar would give it over to Navani, since she's the foremost Artifabrian in the world, and now has something that's not only a Shardblade, but that gives Surgebinding to the bonder, to learn from and try to recreate. Add that with the fact that Shallan is a female KR, destroying conventions of women not being Shardbearers, and that nobody would suspect her of having it, I can imagine Dalinar giving it to her to protect herself with, and to hide. And her to bully him into letting her study it ^-^

I never considered Honorblades as fabrials, but the in-world people... This has merit. This adds to the Oathgate thing, as i imagine Navani and Co. still working on understanding that.
You make a good point about nobody expecting her to have it, both because of gender conventions from that book, and because nobody expects people to give up Shardblades (Amaram/Kaladin), especially one as powerful as Szeth's.
I still like the idea of Lopen having it, but I can definitely get behind Navani and the Artifabrians studying it. On the note of study, I don't believe the bond with Szeth required a gemstone... that's something any Shardbearer would want to learn more about

[Yata]

11 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I never considered Honorblades as fabrials, but the in-world people... This has merit. This adds to the Oathgate thing, as i imagine Navani and Co. still working on understanding that.

My actual view about Honorblade see them as Fabrial, but I was to dumb to made the possible connection between them and Navani 

[Zea mays]

My loopy theory on honorblades and heralds: The bond between Herald and blade is somewhat analogous to the bond between spren and knight: That is, some part of the Herald's cognition/sapience/sanity is tied to the blade. They cannot remember themselves and function properly when separated from the blade for too long. They "go stupid".  Maybe the blade has a cognitive aspect (gah, as if I even have any idea of what that means).

[ScarletSabre]

27 minutes ago, Zea mays said:

My loopy theory on honorblades and heralds: The bond between Herald and blade is somewhat analogous to the bond between spren and knight: That is, some part of the Herald's cognition/sapience/sanity is tied to the blade. They cannot remember themselves and function properly when separated from the blade for too long. They "go stupid".  Maybe the blade has a cognitive aspect (gah, as if I even have any idea of what that means).

You may be onto something there, since Darkness is separated from the Skybreaker Honorblade, and we know he's become somewhat twisted... And the blades having a cognitive aspect is likely, considering they'll at the very least show up as a glass bead in Shadesmar. 

I wonder if that cognitive aspect has anything to do with the addition of gemstones to dead Shardblades...

[goody153]

51 minutes ago, Rawrbert said:

You may be onto something there, since Darkness is separated from the Skybreaker Honorblade, and we know he's become somewhat twisted... And the blades having a cognitive aspect is likely, considering they'll at the very least show up as a glass bead in Shadesmar. 

I wonder if that cognitive aspect has anything to do with the addition of gemstones to dead Shardblades...

While i thinks Zea mays theory might be possible but Darkness/Nale was seen using stormlight when chasing Lift so he possibly took his honorblade again(considering 1 honorblade was missing from the Shin apparently or it could from another heralds honorblade) or maybe Nale managed to absorb stormlight through fabrials(he seems really knowledgeable with them considering he has access to one that could replicate the  "Progression" to revive Szeth). 

[Argel]

As a side note, anyone consider that Szeth is being played? He helps take the Shin out and Nale get's the honorblades they are keeping there. Maybe his odd code of following the law prevents him from doing it, but Szeth, being falsely declared Truthless has a legitimate claim so can. Nale suddenly has a bunch of honorblades....  And then I guess we get to how sane/insane he is.

[maxal]

Interesting WoB, I had not seen this one. I think it pretty much settles the score for Kaladin having taking it, not that I personally thought he would have done it. It seems to me it would have been highly OOC for him to suddenly decide to bond a Honorblade.

We are now left with a dilemma: who did he give it to? I personally feel the logical choice is Dalinar. Shardblades are said to be worth more than a kingdom which is to say a Honorblade is likely worth more than several kindgoms: you just don't leave such a precious valuable artifact others would be wiling to kill to get their hands off laying around. You put it in safety into the hands of someone you absolutely trust will not try to take its power for himself and has the means to protect it from falling into the wrong hands once again.

At the end of WoR, it is obvious to me this person is Dalinar. I also feel Kaladin has progress enough to be truthful and open enough towards Dalinar to tell him about the Honorblade, not to mention people saw him fly into the city holding it within his hands. 

Giving it to Bridge 4 does not strike me as a good idea for both the main narrative and the in-world decision making. The bridgemen aren't equipped to adequately protect a Honorblade not to mention they may be tempted by its power. If anything the Moash adventure will have serve as a lesson to Kaladin: simply because he sees someone as a victim does not mean this individual doesn't have a rotten core (harsh choice of words here, but I mean to emphasis the idea the bridgemen aren't all fallen angels: some of these guys must have done terrible things to end up there). Main narrative wise, it makes no sense. Bridge 4 are supporting characters meant to support Kaladin's story arc: none of them actually is viewpoint character. I think, considering the fact Kaladin is far away, we have to brave ourselves towards facing the fact there may not be much Bridge 4 action going into book 3. There is just no other regular viewpoint character to be used to give insight onto the group which is why the idea the Shins may go and harm the bridgemen for hiding the Honorblade strikes to be as highly unlikely.

It is thus I do think Dalinar has it. What did he do with it? I like the idea he gave it to Navani to further study it. I also like the idea he gives it to Elhokar mostly because it seems to me the king could be in a position to demand it for himself. Dalinar being Dalinar, he would obliged because Elhokar ranks first in his order of priorities. I am not fond of the idea Adolin gets it, but I guess it could happen. Main narrative wise, keeping the Honorblade with the Kholins seems the best choice, whoever gets his hands on it.

[Argel]

1 hour ago, maxal said:

Dalinar being Dalinar, he would obliged because Elhokar ranks first in his order of priorities.

But that's not true anymore -- Dalinar is the leader of the new KRs at this point, being the only bondsmith we know of. 

Here's an interesting thought -- if the Shin know Szeth lost the honorblade they will probably send a team out to retrieve it. So some Shin may escape Nale/Szeth.

Agree though that Dalinar is the obvious choice. More so given that Kaladin is in a hurry to get home. Dalinar is the easy, quick answer to handing that off.  I also don't see Syl suggesting anyone else but Dalinar.

[maxal]

1 hour ago, Argel said:

But that's not true anymore -- Dalinar is the leader of the new KRs at this point, being the only bondsmith we know of. 

Here's an interesting thought -- if the Shin know Szeth lost the honorblade they will probably send a team out to retrieve it. So some Shin may escape Nale/Szeth.

Agree though that Dalinar is the obvious choice. More so given that Kaladin is in a hurry to get home. Dalinar is the easy, quick answer to handing that off.  I also don't see Syl suggesting anyone else but Dalinar.

By the time Kaladin decides to hurry back home, the Honorblade has presumably already been taken care of. Five days have elapsed in between Szeth's "death", Kaladin arriving to the city with the Honorblade and Dalinar bonding the Stormfather. Kaladin thus had ample time to think, ponder and decide on the right course of action: he had 5 days which is long enough to bond it. 

What is not true anymore? That Dalinar would still give leeway to his nephew's every whim? I certainly believe it has been built into Dalinar's character to have a flaw when it comes to his affections: he has indeed transfer his former affection, tainted with extreme jealousy combined with his guilt onto his nephew, thus seeing him as incapable of any wrongs. I thus maintain my point, if Elhokar makes the formal demand, I think it likely Dalinar would obliged, even if it would be wisest if he didn't. Besides, Dalinar once advocate all won Shards should be automatically given to the king so he could bestow them onto the most worthy soldier, independently of princedoms. It would thus be within Dalinar's mind frame to just give the Honorblade to the king to decide how to treat it. Now I don't think he will, but the ground work has bee laid out for it.

It is likely the Shins will have a role to play into the main narrative.

[Vindicator]

I personally think Dalinar would be inclined to give it to a trustworthy user who could actually wreck some havoc with the Surgebinding it provides. A combination of those two is rare, though. All I can think of that fits the two would be Kaladin (who doesn't need it), Bridge Four (of which only Skar and Teft are likely to be any good with it, and Moash's treachery is an issue) and finally Adolin.

Adolin is the only one who makes sense; he's the best duelist in Alethkar, he's very much a capable combatant that even Sadeas thinks is reminiscent of the Blackthorn and he survived maulings by Szeth twice, meaning he would know how the Surges can be used in combat. The only problem I see is that he already has a Shardblade, but it could possibly be given to another. 

However, this is all assuming Dalinar still tries to think like a general. If he chooses to think like a diplomat, it's possible he gives the Honorblade to a nation who needs it (I really, really hope Taravangian doesn't reobtain it in the name of Jah Keved), or just decide to stow it for research and defending Urithiru.

 

[+hwiles]

I think that WoB is a pretty good argument for Navani getting it for research purposes, which Dalinar would probably be inclined to support.

On 9/19/2016 at 8:14 AM, PantsForSquares said:

While we're on this topic, I asked Brandon something related to the Honorblades, and got a neat little piece of information. I'd completely forgotten about it until today, but here you guys go.

There's minor Oathbringer spoilers, though, so open the spoiler at a small, small risk (considering that I didn't  get RAFO'd, it's not really that significant).

  Hide contents

 

Specifically the bit about: "It's one of the things they'll try"

This implies the blade isn't simply being held by a single person; rather, they are trying it out, testing it, or examining it.  The honorblades are ancient artifacts that most Alethi don't even believe to exist, and virtually no one even has any hypotheses about what they may or may not be capable of in Alethkar.  Before Dalinar gives it to a bridgeman or Adolin or Elhokar, he's going to insist on knowing what it is he's giving away.  The Blackthorn isn't a reckless young man anymore, he's not going to give away a weapon without knowing what it's capable of.  He's going to want to study how bonding it works and whether it is dangerous to the user (which it might be for all we know...) He definitely won't give Elhokar or Adolin a weapon that might cause brain damage or warp its holder with its intent.  If the Honorblades are splinters of Honor/Cultivation like the spren are, then they definitely have an Intent tied to them, and holding something with an Intent can be dangerous to the user if they don't align with it properly.

20 hours ago, Zea mays said:

My loopy theory on honorblades and heralds: The bond between Herald and blade is somewhat analogous to the bond between spren and knight: That is, some part of the Herald's cognition/sapience/sanity is tied to the blade. They cannot remember themselves and function properly when separated from the blade for too long. They "go stupid".  Maybe the blade has a cognitive aspect (gah, as if I even have any idea of what that means).

I think this has a lot of merit.  The Heralds carried significant portions of Honor/Cultivation's investiture for a long time and then separated themselves from that power.  No way that didn't cause some serious damage to their spirit web.  And damage to a spirit web can affect one's cognitive and physical selves as well.  Similar to how we would expect spiking away an allomancer's power would seriously mess them up.