09-12-16 - Waning, Ch. 3

[neongrey]

This one wholly devours the original chapter 2, and compresses this particular aspect of the plot quite a bit. Maranthe is rather less generous this time around, and there's a significance to the bells in Maranthe's hair if you haven't read the previous chapter two weeks before, lol (perhaps there still is, but it's the sort of detail that I would expect to get lost with this gap; regardless, it's more of an if-you-catch-it rather than a need-to-know).

I have no specific needs on this; I think it's probably a bit rough overall since I've had to work at it in fits and starts just due to time issues on my end. But let me know! Thanks!

[kais]

I'm still hoping the rewrites will involve more orgy. I think it's well established how I feel about orgies.

Overall

Hm. While I generally like the activeness of Lasilia in this chapter and the pacing is good overall, I feel like the air of mysticism and seduction is no longer present. I'd have liked the importance of Lasilia's magic to be more drawn out, or for her to react more to it. Something to give it more impact than it does. Overall however, I think this is a large improvement!

As I go

- The 'her mother was religious' as it's own line doesn't make much sense to me. I keep puzzling over it.

- page three and she's only just being escorted in. Page two felt like a lot of filler and it was hard to keep from skimming. It was more of 'Lasilia isn't doing anything' feel from before. The first page was fine.

- page four: the scene just before where she nearly passes out at the alter... I wanted this to be more, I don't know, surreal maybe? I didn't get a strong feeling of murkiness or confusion when reading. My understanding of what happened comes more from Lasilia's own thoughts than the actions around her.

- page four: yes, blush, Lasilia. Launch a thousand slash fanfics!

- page five: I wonder if our testing might perhaps mistake that affinity for a vague connection to earth magic. Sweet.

 

[neongrey]

2 hours ago, kaisa said:

I'm still hoping the rewrites will involve more orgy. I think it's well established how I feel about orgies.

That certainly is the plan!

2 hours ago, kaisa said:

- The 'her mother was religious' as it's own line doesn't make much sense to me. I keep puzzling over it.

It's mostly just a very bitter aside. Lasila's relationship with religion thus far has been very... ambivalent. It's non-critical if it's a problem.

2 hours ago, kaisa said:

- page four: the scene just before where she nearly passes out at the alter... I wanted this to be more, I don't know, surreal maybe? I didn't get a strong feeling of murkiness or confusion when reading. My understanding of what happened comes more from Lasilia's own thoughts than the actions around her.

Yeah, I can work on that some. Lasila by nature grounds herself pretty thoroughly so even when she's feeling out of it there's going to be a bit of an anchoring going on, but it sounds like there's too much of that as-is.

Thanks!

[neongrey]

16 hours ago, Ernei said:

So the first paragraf gives me the general idea about what's going on (I haven't read the previous parts). But the next line, with religiosus mother is odd. First, it's past tense, when there is present tense all around. Does it mean Lasila's mother is dead? Even if so, the line still bothers me. It just sticks out.

Yes, and I foolishly forgot to give a recap. But yes, she's quite dead and has been for some time. This seems to be a bit of a problem line; I can find some other way to convey the required sentiment.

17 hours ago, Ernei said:

The paragraph about colors fits well with the female character. Nicely done  Also, from the way you detail the clothing, I guess you're writing with female audience in mind? Is it YA?

Lasila as a POV is rather strongly concerned with her presentation, and not without cause; this matters a lot in her society and she's not in a position where she can dispense with the formalities of this.

It's not strictly intended for a female audience but Lasila's perspective draws heavily on female coding and very strictly applies the female gaze, and as a rule the generalized cisgendered heterosexual male audience does often find themselves uncomfortable with that. I have no particular interest in catering to that demographic, and while the intent is not to turn them away at the door, that demographic rather notoriously interprets 'not being catered to' as being explicitly excluded.

This is very much not YA; it's adult political/economic fantasy. Not epic, not heroic; if urban fantasy weren't so strongly tied to the real world, I might be ok with it being considered that.

17 hours ago, Ernei said:

p. 5

The first sentence was a bit confusing. I had to reared it several times until I realized that it was Lasila who didn't need the assistance.

I'm not sure I follow which sentence you're referring to here.

17 hours ago, Ernei said:

p. 6

In my opinion, Lesila reacted to lightly at the news she possess the same power as the enemies - or, well, I guess those demon-summoners are considered to be enemies. I don't feel any kind of anxiety or nervousness in the entire scene with testing the blood, instead it seems very business-like.

There'd be no anxiety, no, and in fact the extent to which Lasila isn't bothered by this discovery is itself quite significant. (she is certainly an antihero on several levels; the shudkathra aren't secretly the good guys or whatever nonsense. they've got their reasons for keeping up their half of the war, but they're not terribly pertinent at this point) Still, it does seem the surrounding bits are somewhat too grounded.

Thanks!

[neongrey]

oh, hmm, it is Lasila who doesn't need the assistance there but I can see why that'd be confusing. I'll make a note.

[Hobbit]

I had a similar read to kaisa - I liked the chapter, but it lacked tension.  I mostly enjoyed reading for interest - interest at seeing the culture, the temple, the rituals, and then at discovering more about the priestess's goals and about the magic Lasila is discovering.  But more tension would make the chapter a lot stronger.  I agree that the beginning section went on a little long.  You mention that Lasila is irked about missing work in the first paragraph, but I didn't feel that carry throughout her perspective the chapter (not sure if you wanted it to or not).

On 9/14/2016 at 1:31 AM, neongrey said:

There'd be no anxiety, no, and in fact the extent to which Lasila isn't bothered by this discovery is itself quite significant.

I didn't pick up that this was significant when I was reading.  More emphasis here would be helpful in some form.

Kaisa and Ernei hit on the line by lines that I caught, so I'll just leave it at that.  Overall, interesting, but I think you can kick it up a notch!

 

[neongrey]

3 minutes ago, Hobbit said:

I didn't pick up that this was significant when I was reading.

No, it won't appear that way at this point; it's more of a premise-level thing rather than uniquely portentious. I just pointed it out in that case because yes, she's not supposed to be bothered. The fact that she doesn't perceive that she should be beyond a momentary 'ehh' does matter, but not in a way that should be hammered on.

[Robinski]

The re-read continues some more, although I see I didn't comment on this version before.

• I am enjoying the epigraphs. Each one seems to have a different tone, and be in a slightly different form, each one hits a certain emotion, and does so effectively, imho.

• I like the references to heat and its effects (sweat and the promise of sweat). It’s good for setting to have this impression. Temperature is often missing in other works, and it’s a strong factor for building setting.

• “Lasila considers hiring a carriage rather than trying to walk through all this”

• It seems like you’re not averse to running similar sounding words together. E.g. “any conveyance that could would cost far more” – one example, but there have been others. Clearly not wrong, but I just felt more awkward than it needed to be.

• “She can't even enjoy taking in what the others in line are wearing like this” – awkward sentence. Sorry, I’ll go back to trying to skip over line edits. It’s not why I’m re-reading.

• Another one “knowing in truth that only that which is truly divine might still bear such wings” – maybe I'm missing it, but I don’t see a good reason not to use something like ‘knowing in truth that only the truly divine…’

• “tipped with a red like flame” – at best, I think this should be hyphenated, but what is red-like that isn’t red?

• “And Las does not know how to believe in beauty, how to believe in the moment's joy.” – fantastic line. I also enjoyed the one about her not knowing how to pray. Strong sense of emotion and stillness coming through this section and your description.

• “there is nothing to celebrate in plucking them” – ‘picking’ would seem more appropriate.

• “Lasila feels herself all brass and angles” – wonderful phase.

• “she seems to not need the assistance” – this seems to be in Mar’s POV. I guess it can be read as Las’s, but I feel that’s the less obvious interpretation.

• “it's hard to tell what's real and what's sensationalized” – I do enjoy these subtle reveals on the nature of the war and society. Something about this, and the pace of society, the hand-to-mouth nature of the Ael’s existence at present – yet still maintaining social stratification, makes me think of WWII Britain.

• “Certainly that's the broad strokes” – Mar has been well-spoken so far, so this grammar drop feels wrong.

• “our testing might perhaps mistake that affinity for a vague connection to earth magic” – this seems a clear inference as to what is in Mar’s mind, and yet Las doesn’t react. Maybe it’s because she’s till disoriented. Then “Lasila will need to review the statues to be certain” – she doesn’t seem shocked enough to me, that Mar is suggesting that Las is ‘full’ of the enemy’s magic. “There's no guild to train me in its use” – Meh, it’s increasingly shocking that she’s so unaffected by this turn of events. I don’t mind incredulity, but I’m fighting against implausibility here. It’s the first time in the story so far. Only at the foot of Page 6, I feel, does her reaction start to chime with something reasonable (by my judgement) – i.e. her suspicion of being manipulated, which is very nicely conveyed.

• If I was given the choice, I’d choose the language in the last couple of paragraphs being tightened up, some of the phrasing and grammar would benefit from being more direct, I think.

More so than the previous chapters, I found on several occasions I was tripping over language that we unnecessarily complicated. I felt like these instances crossed the line of conveying the story to the reader in an engaging way, and into over-complication.

In terms of the story, I continue to enjoy what I think is a more direct order of event, better pacing of Las’s progress into the story, and increased tension in Sav’s POV. I like this version; I think it’s greatly improved. Nice note to end the chapter with a decisive step forward.

My first gripe so far in three chapters is Las’s tone when she tests positive. I know she is a stronger character now, with greater self-belief. I think this works very well, but I think you go too far in what she is able to assimilate without shock or even the slightest surprise, when you make the reveal of her ‘hidden’ ability.

<R>

[neongrey]

15 hours ago, Robinski said:

I like the references to heat and its effects (sweat and the promise of sweat). It’s good for setting to have this impression. Temperature is often missing in other works, and it’s a strong factor for building setting.

It's one of those things, yeah, I feel like the effects of a long heatwave I think really help a lot of the feeling of societal exhaustion that I want for these bits. Objectively speaking, it's probably not all that hot (temps averaging in the low 30s, probably)-- the city's built on a (formerly) heavily-forested mountain, but for things like this it's how it relates to the norm, yeah. Of course the city has some measure of climate control but that's more pursuant to winter weather effects, taking the edge off of snowfall, eg.

15 hours ago, Robinski said:

Sorry, I’ll go back to trying to skip over line edits. It’s not why I’m re-reading.

They don't hurt anything, and as we've been over I certainly phrase wonkily a fair bit, but yeah, best if they're not the primary focus. Among other things a lot of this is still at a stage where rewrite is the move rather than spot correction, so.

15 hours ago, Robinski said:

“tipped with a red like flame” – at best, I think this should be hyphenated, but what is red-like that isn’t red?

I mean. It's a simile, not a singular adjective. The red is the shade of flames, the wings aren't reddish and on fire.

15 hours ago, Robinski said:

“there is nothing to celebrate in plucking them” – ‘picking’ would seem more appropriate.

I think in this case plucking has the correct connotation of being severed from something alive. 

15 hours ago, Robinski said:

“she seems to not need the assistance” – this seems to be in Mar’s POV. I guess it can be read as Las’s, but I feel that’s the less obvious interpretation.

Simply an error of phrasing here, yeah.

15 hours ago, Robinski said:

• “it's hard to tell what's real and what's sensationalized” – I do enjoy these subtle reveals on the nature of the war and society. Something about this, and the pace of society, the hand-to-mouth nature of the Ael’s existence at present – yet still maintaining social stratification, makes me think of WWII Britain

   

So I'm actually pulling from a lot of things here insofar as the war goes-- there's definitely that aspect, and also the interwar and the postwar periods; my experience is north american so I'm more directly drawing on that but yeah.

The other thing, which I've had other readers pick up on but nobody here is that this is also drawing heavily on the fact that since the Iraq war in the early 90s, there's never not been a time when we've been involved in a foreign war. It's distant, doesn't directly affect the day-to-day but everybody knows people who either didn't come back or came back irreparably harmed, physically or otherwise. That sense of perpetuity, of inevitability, the ways in which the culture's been influenced both there's that there too.

(consequently in this aspect it's a lot more about the harm the war has caused than the war itself, and the pertinent details of the war are frequently muzzy to pov characters like lasila in particular)

Otherwise yeah this chapter is not quite where I want it; it definitely lost certain of the 'feel' the original version of this scene had. Maranthe is one of the characters who's affected by being too stringent on opsec; I definitely saw a bit of this when I was redoing the scene but the way in which this was accomplished was not quite right.