Long Game 26: Cognitive Dissonance

[Magestar]

This game would probably work better with way more people.  It would be nice if we could get like 25-30 to sign up.

[Young Bard]

4 minutes ago, Magestar said:

This game would probably work better with way more people.  It would be nice if we could get like 25-30 to sign up.

Well, signups have been open less then a day. We should hopefully get that many before the game actually starts.

[Magestar]

Yeah, I would guess so.  But most games I have been in/seen have had less than 25.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Magestar

[little wilson]

I was going to spectate this because I really don't have time to play game this complicated, but I'm going to wing it. Mostly play by the seat of my pants again. I'm not even going to read the rules! (For some reason, I think this will end poorly, but I doubt I'm going to live long enough for it to make a difference. )

Kyla signing up.

[Elenion]

Well then... those are some decent-size rules, kolo?

I'll join as Grond. I'll probably not be as 'invested' in this game as in some of my others, but I'll give it a shot.

[Arrae]

Gu Ni La threw down his knife with a huff of disgust. After hours and hours of perfecting his stamp, he'd just discovered that the radicals were supposed to be rotated! Ni dropped the stamp onto the table below, which was littered with stone chips and half-finished stamps.

"Ga!" Ni shouted. He thought of how much time he'd poured into researching Forgery, practicing his fine motor skills, inundating himself in the culture, picking out that symbol, haggling for materials, and least if all carving that symbol. "Just--flipping--work--already!" he spluttered at the soulstone.

The soulstone continued to gleam balefully at Ni.

"Ga!" he yelled again. Then he slammed his fist on the table, right on top of the knife.

Ni shrieked and snatched his hand away from the treacherous knife. Red blood dripped from his hand.

Words failed Ni and he stormed out the room to find a bandage.

---

Ni inspected his right hand. A jagged cut ran down the side of his palm, and he could see a hint of bone at the knuckle. It hurt to even look at it. Ni swore. The wound was worse than he'd thought, and would need stitches. He grabbed a needle from his sewing kit and popped it in his mouth so he could use the other free hand to get thread.

That worked out well, a voice said. Not.

Shut up, Ni said. He found a spool of silver thread and awkwardly tried to unroll it with his good hand.

Maybe you should have double-checked your work before carving, the voice said.

Ni grumbled and continued unspooling the thread. The voice was right, and it pained Ni to admit it. He should have checked the linework before carving.

You should check in more often, the voice whined. I barely get anything from these brief touches. I know you have to study Forgery and can't do it with me in there, but still. Anyways, who makes a medallion into a needle?

Ni ignored the voice and continued getting more thread. He didn't know where the voice came from or what it was or why it bothered talking to him. Sometimes, he felt like he knew the answer somewhere in the back of his mind, and it aggravated him to think that there were secrets in his mind that he wasn't privy to.

Finally, Ni finished unspooling the thread. He took the needle out of his mouth and started stitching up his wound. The voice fell silent once more.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Arraenae
Formatting and one more sentence

[Young Bard]

@Darkness Ascendant, I believe you were curious to try a game, and we definitely need more players for this. (Although, I will say that these are the most complicated rules I have ever seen in SE, so it will certainly be one hell of an introduction...)

[Darkness Ascendant]

Alrighty then, after 2 hours of reading that storming introductory post and figuring it out, as well as compiling some notes for myself (no joke) I have decided to join as Brandon Sanderson

@The Young Bard and @Alvron

Thanks ganchos, I will try my best.

 

[Stick.]

So the only difference between MRs and LGs is that LGs are longer than MRs, right? That's...why it's called Long Game, I know, but are there any changes in the general rules that I should know? Like, apart from the rules Nyali has posted on the original post back there 

[Nyali]

5 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

 I have decided to join as Brandon Sanderson

I... don't know how I feel about that character (disguise) choice. xD

 

3 hours ago, I_am_a_Stick said:

So the only difference between MRs and LGs is that LGs are longer than MRs, right? That's...why it's called Long Game, I know, but are there any changes in the general rules that I should know? Like, apart from the rules Nyali has posted on the original post back there 

Generally speaking, LG cycles last 72-96 hours, they have more complicated rules, and they are designed around having more players. The longer cycles are what really define it - they are what cause LGs to generally last longer than MRs/QFs. QFs have 24 hour cycles, and MRs generally have 48 -72 hour cycles (I think?). Also, QFs usually have day and night combined into one, whereas LGs usually have day and night separated out. MRs from what I've seen sometimes have them combined, sometimes don't.

So, in other words, no, there are no special rules that differentiate QFs/MRs/LGs that aren't in that game's rules.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Nyali

[little wilson]

2 hours ago, Nyali said:

MRs generally have 48-72 hour cycles (I think?). MRs from what I've seen have something inbetween.

48 hour cycles that can be broken up into 24 hour day/night turns or kept as a single cycle. It's up to the GM what they want. But the cycles are always 48 hours in MR's.

[Araris Valerian]

I will sign up as Aralis.

[Wonko the Sane]

I'm going to regret this, but I'm going to go ahead and sign up anyway. Dr. Idem Occulta is here to represent the Abundance. As of yet, none of Idem's fellow doctors are aware of her secret identity (i.e., my Character Role).

I'd like to stress that my access to the Internet is very limited right now. I will try to be as active as possible, but there will be frequent periods of time during which I will be unable to get on, especially over the weekends. I should be able to participate in almost every cycle, but I simply can't maintain the level of involvement I've shown in the past.

I'll be back after I've actually read the rules to discuss.

EDIT: Wait. I just realized that I've established Idem as a woman, when I don't actually know what my gender will be. I could wait until I know, but giving my Role's gender would be a clue to who I am. Does anyone have a way I can hide my actual gender without being weird? I know that I could just say I was only disguised as a woman, but I feel like that only works for some characters. Obviously, it would fit perfectly if I ended up as Wayne, but can anyone honestly see, say, Dalinar being comfortable with cross-dressing, no matter what the circumstances?

Edited September 8, 2016 by Wonko the Sane

[Nyali]

30 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

EDIT: Wait. I just realized that I've established Idem as a woman, when I don't actually know what my gender will be. I could wait until I know, but giving my Role's gender would be a clue to who I am. Does anyone have a way I can hide my actual gender without being weird? I know that I could just say I was only disguised as a woman, but I feel like that only works for some characters. Obviously, it would fit perfectly if I ended up as Wayne, but can anyone honestly see, say, Dalinar being comfortable with cross-dressing, no matter what the circumstances?

Really, I'd recommend not worrying about it. Unless you really want to. It's very weird for me of all people to say this, but gender isn't terribly important. Ultimately, this is an Elimination game and I don't want people using the gender of characters mentioned in writeups to determine who did or didn't do something, as you pointed out. Normally, I'd just use gender-neutral terms, but in this game, I can use gendered terms to refer to a character, and it doesn't tell anyone which player it could be (even if people claim, they could be lying).

I think most people are just not caring if it matches the gender or not. But, there are several options if you do care.

You can say your character was always female and only pretended to be male before. Dalinar as secretly always a woman (with shshshshsh being actually male, it's not like he'd remember anyway) would be pretty awesome, if you ask me. This game isn't canon, it just follows canon to an extent. 

You could also do what you suggested, which is the opposite - have your character disguised as a woman if your role turns out to be male. If you do this (or the opposite), please don't make it into a joke.

Or, if it really matters to you, you can send me a PM requesting only roles of a specific gender. As long as no one knows you've done that, it does not reveal information.

[Wonko the Sane]

Okay, yeah, I'll think of something once I've seen my role. Idem stands as female. It only matters to me because I have this thing called The Abundance, where I try to maintain a semi-consistent meta-story between all of my Elimination characters, as well as those of anybody else who wants to join in. Depending on who I get, I'm actually considering letting them stick around after the game is over. So there's a good chance that my guild may have an actual cosmere character as one of its members soon, and I don't want that character's first run as a member to come across as silly. (Don't worry about me making a joke of it. The whole reason I'm even thinking about this is to make sure that it isn't overly ridiculous.) Give me any character you like, and I'll find a way to roll with it. Worse comes to worst, I'll just retcon this particular game out of Abundance lore.

So I haven't read everything in the Common Powers section yet, but I think I've got a basic grasp of the game. Let me first shower you in praise over how amazingly together you're being about this. That introduction is the most well-organized, clearly explained, and ambiguity-free rules explanation I've ever seen in front of an Elimination game. This promises to be one of the more complicated games I've ever played, and you got virtually the entire game across to me in a single read-through. I think that we'll be seeing a lot less of the mistakes, misinterpretations, and confusion that have plagued the other large games I've been a part of. So, bravo for that!

I also find myself loving the hidden-information structure you've got going, which is strange for me. In the past, I haven't been much of a fan of secret rules and the like, as it's always seemed like they derail any attempt at actually playing the game. Here, though, I can't wait to start trying to figure out just what everyone else is capable of, and what they're trying to accomplish. I suppose the difference here is that you've been upfront and clear about exactly what it is we don't know. I may not know everything that's possible, but it's realistic for me to try and find out. Which, as I mentioned, I can't wait to do.

I have just a couple of rules questions, though I may be back with more after I've finished reading the Common Powers.

1) Am I right in inferring that, for the most part, the only difference between the Give action and the Offer / Take combination is which player spends an action on the transfer?

2) You said that we have three actions per night, and that all actions of the same type happen simultaneously. Are the three actions consecutive, or do they get handled as a block? For example, if my actions were an [assist], an [attack], and an [assist], would the two [assist] actions be handled simultaneously?

Finally, I'd like to note that I haven't read White Sand, but I've decided that I'm not going to worry about spoilers on this one. So, it's fine if I get handed a character from Taldain, or if anyone needs to talk to me about something that involves a super-secret plot twist. I just wanted to let everyone know that if you reference anything from White Sand at me, I'm gonna need some time on the Coppermind before I understand what you're talking about.

 

[Nyali]

53 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

1) Am I right in inferring that, for the most part, the only difference between the Give action and the Offer / Take combination is which player spends an action on the transfer?

2) You said that we have three actions per night, and that all actions of the same type happen simultaneously. Are the three actions consecutive, or do they get handled as a block? For example, if my actions were an [assist], an [attack], and an [assist], would the two [assist] actions be handled simultaneously?

Finally, I'd like to note that I haven't read White Sand, but I've decided that I'm not going to worry about spoilers on this one. So, it's fine if I get handed a character from Taldain, or if anyone needs to talk to me about something that involves a super-secret plot twist. I just wanted to let everyone know that if you reference anything from White Sand at me, I'm gonna need some time on the Coppermind before I understand what you're talking about.

 

1) Exactly, but it's slightly more than that. You only need to Take once to get all Offered items. So, if you are doing a lot of item transfers, Offer/Take is much more efficient, but it requires more coordination than having someone just Give items. In general, coordination is rewarded. Basically, it might not be worth it to you to spend an action to give up an item you don't care about or can't use, but it might be worth it to someone else to spend an action to take that item from you if you're willing to part with it.

2) When you send in your actions, the order you give for them is irrelevant. Instead, the Order of Action is followed. So, yes, your [assist] actions would be simultaneous in your example (along with everyone else's), and then your [attack] would happen (along with everyone else's), and that would be true regardless of the order you put them in.

As I said in the rules, there are very, very few White Sand spoilers. There's a chance the only character(s) with any won't even make it into the game depending on how many players we wind up with. There are a few content spoilers (like, a content spoiler for Mistborn Era 1 would be the existence of Duralumin or Bendalloy), but so far no one has said they'd have a problem with that sort of thing. So, don't worry about White Sand, and I'll add you to the growing list of people who don't want one of the Taldain characters xD

[AliasSheep]

I'll sign up as Kelen Taldar; not quite as dead as you might expect!

 

Anyone fancy doing some RP with me this game?

[Conquestor]

22 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

I'll sign up as Kelen Taldar; not quite as dead as you might expect!

 

Anyone fancy doing some RP with me this game?

I would like to RP with you, but keep in mind that my character is a Rithmatist that found some sort of teleportation line and got into the middle of this mess.

[Wonko the Sane]

I suppose that's probably for the best; better to give me a character I'm familiar with, so I can RP them effectively in the future. Really, though, I'm not concerned with spoilers. If there's a Taldain character you want to put in the game, and you need someone to give it to, I'm fine with it. Like I said, I'll just have to spend some time perusing the Coppermind for general info.

@AliasSheep I would love to do some RP, but I'd rather wait until I know Idem's actual identity before I start writing her fake one. Also, as I said above, my activity is probably going to be a little spotty this game.

@Conquestor Technically, that's your character's disguise. The RP for this game has us all as bona fide named characters from Brandon's books, like Kelsier, Kaladin, Raoden, etc. The names we're giving now are false ones we're using to keep our true identities a secret from one another. That's why I named my character Idem Occulta -- It's Latin for Secret Identity. (Sort of. I don't know Latin, so I probably butchered the translation.)

I have new questions:

1) "Follow and Report", "Watch and Alert", "Protect Me", most Surgebindings, Emotion Bracelets, Half-shard Shields, and Aons Daa and Kii all allow Self as a valid target. Am I missing something? Is there a situation where I would ever want to point those abilities at myself?

2) I think this must just be a grammatical error: "Grab Things" cancels "...one other randomly chosen action your target attempts...", but the only legal target is Self. It doesn't cancel my own actions, does it?

3) Am I allowed to sheath *Nightblood, or does he just automatically drain my investiture until I run out or drop him?

4) If I Store in a Coppermind, do I get any charges if I wasn't going to be Informed of anything in the first place?

5) Similarly, if I Store in a Chromiummind, do I get charges even if you don't make any rolls concerning me?

6) Can I make and use a Fabrial on the same turn, assuming the action type of the Fabrial occurs after [assist]?

7) Not really a question, but it's interesting you gave Artifabrians the ability to make Small Soulcasters, considering how big a deal that is in the books.

8) Elantrians don't appear to have any ability to generate investiture. Will they be able to draw on the Dor when on Sel, or do they have to get all their power from things like Spheres?

9) Likewise, where are Forgers supposed to draw their investiture from?

I only read up through Soulforgery. I'll do the rest later.

 

Edited September 8, 2016 by Wonko the Sane

[Nyali]

Great questions  Keep them coming!

1) That's there for redirects. Those abilities can hit you if someone redirects your action to you. Remember that if you try to redirect an ability to an invalid target, it doesn't redirect at all, so it's risky for someone to try redirecting an action to the user of said action. But, it can succeed, sometimes. Some redirects, however, are random and choose from available legal targets. These would be able to randomly cause someone to hit themself with abilities that allow for hitting Self as a target.

2) That's a wording error. By "Target" I meant "Person who triggers it." It's "Self" targeting because you add the passive text to an item you are holding.

3) You do not know how *Nightblood works unless you have *Nightblood. The item explains how to use it and answers your question.

4) You can only store by not getting Informed of something. If you wouldn't be Informed of anything, you don't store anything. You decide ahead of time how much you are storing and if you want it to be random or not, but if you wouldn't get told anything at all, you store nothing.

5) Yes, you do gain charge. (This is different because Copperminds have to store in order for their tap to mean anything.)

6) No, you cannot plan to use an item you don't have. Similarly, you can't plan to use an [attack] item you are expecting to pick up, take, or be given that turn. That was a good question - I don't think that's in the rules anywhere and it should be.

7) This isn't following canon - I was running out of ideas for Fabrials, but wanted one more.

8-9) Individual characters should have ways to gain Investiture that may not be apparent from the general rules. Unless I'm mistaken or made a mistake, every character that can use Investiture (not all can) have a way to gain Investiture. If not, there's always trading with someone who has Spheres, which recharge themselves every two turns if you're on Roshar (see the common item from Roshar for an example).

[Elenion]

2 hours ago, AliasSheep said:

I'll sign up as Kelen Taldar; not quite as dead as you might expect!

 

Anyone fancy doing some RP with me this game?

I'm down for that, especially considering that my character has no current backstory. If you're interested you can PM me and we can set something up.

[Magestar]

I always say I'll do some RP, but never get around to it.  I guess it depends on what I feel like when the game starts, if I have time, and if I can do interesting things with my Characters backstory without giving anything away.  I'll try.

It might be cool to have someone pretend to be Magestar, as in the character I have used previously.   

Edited September 8, 2016 by Magestar

[Wonko the Sane]

Finished the rules. No more questions come to mind right now, but I'll probably have more for you later.

With regards to RP, it occurs to me that a Cosmere-wide game like this is an excellent opportunity for me to develop the Abundance some, so I think I'm going to try and put them center stage in my posts. Other than that, I've got no specific plans. Maybe something will come to me once I learn who Idem is.

[Straw]

Straw signing up as Gladium Paleas.

Notes: Fun fact: I come up with many of my names by running random things through google translate.

 

[Magestar]

Yeah, that's always fun.  I tend to use Latin, Greek, and Polish most often, although if that fails, I broaden my search.