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Death Rattles


soyperson

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In the Stormlight Archive, in WoK, the little quotes (epigraphs?) before chapters are known as Death Rattles. And they are important in-world because Taravangian wants to collect them, and they have something to do with the ever-mysterious unmade (evil spren-like beings named after Judeo-Christian-era demons and false-gods). But to us readers, they are valuable sources of foreshadowing. And I was looking at them on Coppermind, and saw this one:

Spoiler


A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears.

—Collected on Tanatesev 1171, 30 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a cobbler of some renown

Aside from the fact that it was spoken by a cobbler (RIP Ym), those of us who have read the preview chapters of Oathbringer can connect the Rattle to 

Spoiler

when Kal discovers Hearthstone in pieces.

An example that may have already happened is this:

Spoiler


I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done?

—Collected on Vevanev 1173, 107 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an out-of-work Veden sailor.

If you've read WoK, you know what I'm referring to.

So... thoughts? Ideas? Observations? Input? "No, bleeder, you're wrong"?

It's sort of out there, but, then again, so is Brandon. 

Think on it. 

 

(Yes, I know this should've been put in the SA section, but I wasn't thinking about that at the time. Sorry.)

Edited by bleeder
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“Above the final void I hang, friends behind, friends before. The feast I must drink clings to their faces, and the words I must speak spark in my mind. The old oaths will be spoken anew."

Dated Betabanan, 1173, 45 seconds pre-death. Subject: a lighteyed child of five years. Diction improved remarkably when giving sample.

Way of Kings, Chapter 59

This has always seemed like a description of Kaladin's Second Oath to me. Other Sharders have disagreed with this, but the "feast I must drink" bit sells it for me.

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1 hour ago, Wonko the Sane said:

This has always seemed like a description of Kaladin's Second Oath to me. Other Sharders have disagreed with this, but the "feast I must drink" bit sells it for me.

I think the same about that Rattle...it fits too well to be other

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Hang on... I don't want to derail the discussion, but this caught me off-guard. bleeder, I just reread your post and noticed this (emphasis added):

1 hour ago, bleeder said:

...the ever-mysterious unmade (evil spren-like beings named after Judeo-Christian-era demons and false-gods)...

Is this true? Can you point me to a reference?

Edited by Wonko the Sane
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4 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

Hang on... bleeder, I just reread your post and noticed this (emphasis added):

Is this true? Can you point me to a reference?

From the Coppermind (emphasis added):

"Other entities speculated to be Unmade include Sja-anat, Nergaoul, Moelach, Dai-gonarthis, and Re-Shephir.

"It is likely that there have been several more Unmade referenced that have simply not been named as such. Re-Shephir,[4] the Midnight Mother, and Dai-gonarthis,[5] the Black Fisher, seem likely candidates. They have hyphenated names in the same style as Yelig-nar's, along with a title like his. All three of these beings are also described as having to do with "consuming". There is another potential member as well, "the black piper in the night," seen by Cenn in a death vision.[6] The black piper bit is reminiscent of Re-Shephir and Dai-gonarthis, who were also referenced in death visions. Sja-anat [7] is another possible unmade.

"One possibility that has been raised is that the Unmade are the opposites of the Heralds, servants of Odium as the Heralds served Honor.

"By symmetry with the Surgebinding diagram, the powers of the Voidbinding diagram appear also to be associated with faces, which have been theorized to be the Unmade. This would suggest that the Unmade are connected to the individual voidbinding powers.

"The names of the Unmade are similar to those of demons/false gods in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Nergaoul is similar to Nergal, a Babylonian war god, and Moelach is similar to Moloch, a Carthaginian god to whom children were supposedly sacrificed. Re-Shephir is similar to Resheph, a Caananite god of darkness and pestilence. Dai-gonarthis is similar to the Phoenician sea-god Dagon. It has been speculated that there is some connection between the names of the Unmade and their powers. Nergaoul causes the Thrill, and is similar to a war god. Moelach prompts Taravangian to kill the weak, and is similar to Moloch, to whom children were sacrificed. Re-Shephir is called the "Midnight Mother" and might have created the shadow-creatures known as Midnight Essences , which would be appropriate for a deity of darkness. Dai-gonarthis bears the title "Black Fisher," which is appropriate for a sea god."

Edited by bleeder
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1 hour ago, Wonko the Sane said:

“Above the final void I hang, friends behind, friends before. The feast I must drink clings to their faces, and the words I must speak spark in my mind. The old oaths will be spoken anew."

Dated Betabanan, 1173, 45 seconds pre-death. Subject: a lighteyed child of five years. Diction improved remarkably when giving sample.

Way of Kings, Chapter 59

This has always seemed like a description of Kaladin's Second Oath to me. Other Sharders have disagreed with this, but the "feast I must drink" bit sells it for me.

The quote you mention is actually a representation of the Battle of the Tower.

The "final void" references the chasm Kaladin jumps. 

"Friends behind" is Bridge Four.

"Friends before" is the soldiers he is rescuing.

"The feast I must drink" is the Stormlight he must absorb.

"The words I must speak" is the oath he is about to say.

 

And, yes, I just putter around the Coppermind looking for/stumbling upon interesting/useful tidbits.

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16 minutes ago, Magestar said:

Have you seen this Topic?  I think it's a great Idea to start a new one, but here it is.

I personally have not put a lot of thought into this, but I laud you guys for figuring them out.  Nice job, and keep up the good work.

Thanks! Much appreciated.

Edited by bleeder
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As you all know, in the cosmere, no one is safe from death. 

And I just stumbled upon a rattle that makes me shiver for the fate of a much-loved character in the Archive.

Here it is:

Quote

He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!

—Collected on Vevahach 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a prostitute of unknown background.

The words "tower" and "crown" reminded me of something:

download.jpg

The crest of House Kholin, particularly that of Dalinar.

Now, unless Dalinar just trips and drops the crest and his title of Highprince onto the ground and someone has to pick it up for him, this can reasonably only mean one thing:

That Dalinar will die, soon, and that someone (Presumably either Adolin or Renarin) must bear the Kholin crest, and take up the title of Highprince of War.

This is not for sure, but it's certainly possible.  

 

Edited by bleeder
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1 hour ago, bleeder said:

As you all know, in the cosmere, no one is safe from death. 

And I just stumbled upon a rattle that makes me shiver for the fate of a much-loved character in the Archive.

Here it is:

The words "tower" and "crown" reminded me of something:

download.jpg

The crest of House Kholin, particularly that of Dalinar.

Now, unless Dalinar just trips and drops the crest and his title of Highprince onto the ground and someone has to pick it up for him, this can reasonably only mean one thing:

That Dalinar will die, soon, and that someone (Presumably either Adolin or Renarin) must bear the Kholin crest, and take up the title of Highprince of War.

This is not for sure, but it's certainly possible.  

 

I sure hope you're wrong here, because I love Dalinar too much... Then again what about the spear? It could be unimportant, but it's regarded as a darkeyes weapon and I don't see Adolin or Dalinar having much to do with spears. In a very metaphorical sense it could refer to Kaladin saving Dalinar in the battle of the tower, but this is probably just me trying to find any way to interpret this that doesn't involve Dalinar getting hurt. :P

Still what about the spear?

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Just now, Adurna said:

I sure hope you're wrong here, because I love Dalinar too much... Then again what about the spear? It could be unimportant, but it's regarded as a darkeyes weapon and I don't see Adolin or Dalinar having much to do with spears. In a very metaphorical sense it could refer to Kaladin saving Dalinar in the battle of the tower, but this is probably just me trying to find any way to interpret this that doesn't involve Dalinar getting hurt. :P

Still what about the spear?

Could just be a detail that hasn't happened yet. But points to you for optimism!

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Just now, Adurna said:

Yes but, I mean, a detail could mean we're misinterpreting. *keeps hoping*

For all we know, it could be from a future book regarding Dalinar losing his honor and regaining it.

Or, it could just be a pointless tidbit meant to lead us on.

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31 minutes ago, 1stBondsmith said:

I cannot help but view this as another Kaladin prophecy. He wears the Castle and Crown; his sigil would be the spear. I suspect an upcoming unit badge coinciding with taking up the title of Knight Radiant. True?

Perhaps. Excellent foretelling. 

I would place a bet, were I a betting man, however I am not, and I only have about 15 dollars to my name.

But excellent!

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Perhaps this refers to someone saving Kaladin? Granted, Kaladin has both the Crown and the Tower on his uniform, but the spear doesn't seem to me like something he has to pick up; perhaps the combination of Crown/Tower/Spear means Kaladin and he's the one in need of assistance.

But what would the title be? I mean, what does "the fallen title" refer to? The Knight Radiant? Maybe the entire rattle refers to the moment in WoR when Kaladin has to decide whether he wants to help Elhokar and thus "pick up the fallen title" of a true Knight Radiant?

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5 minutes ago, Rasarr said:

Perhaps this refers to someone saving Kaladin? Granted, Kaladin has both the Crown and the Tower on his uniform, but the spear doesn't seem to me like something he has to pick up; perhaps the combination of Crown/Tower/Spear means Kaladin and he's the one in need of assistance.

But what would the title be? I mean, what does "the fallen title" refer to? The Knight Radiant? Maybe the entire rattle refers to the moment in WoR when Kaladin has to decide whether he wants to help Elhokar and thus "pick up the fallen title" of a true Knight Radiant?

I'm thinking the title of Highprince of War.

But excellent point!

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Just now, bleeder said:

I'm thinking the title of Highprince of War.

Hm, perhaps.

I'm just kind of bothered about the phrasing of the whole thing. "He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown and the spear" Seems to me like all three of those things are the title somehow. Perhaps it's about glyphs? Perhaps if you string together glyphs for Tower, Crown and Spear, you'll end up with a pickable title. Or (stupid idea shall commence now), the "fallen title" is someone who must pick up those three ("He must pick it up, the storming fool!"). A lighteyes who loses his nobility somehow. Maybe - and now I'm far into tinfoil hat territory - this refers to Adolin who falls from grace and has to reclaim his title (tower and crown) and grab ahold of some spear in a moment of epicness that I doubt will come.

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2 minutes ago, Rasarr said:

Hm, perhaps.

I'm just kind of bothered about the phrasing of the whole thing. "He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown and the spear" Seems to me like all three of those things are the title somehow. Perhaps it's about glyphs? Perhaps if you string together glyphs for Tower, Crown and Spear, you'll end up with a pickable title. Or (stupid idea shall commence now), the "fallen title" is someone who must pick up those three ("He must pick it up, the storming fool!"). A lighteyes who loses his nobility somehow. Maybe - and now I'm far into tinfoil hat territory - this refers to Adolin who falls from grace and has to reclaim his title (tower and crown) and grab ahold of some spear in a moment of epicness that I doubt will come.

The Adolin thing is valid, and the glyphs are too. That is an excellent point (and tinfoil hats are the only effective way to protect yourself from emotional Allomancy, so keep it on), or it could also be Adolin picking up his father's title and becoming Highprince.

Or maybe we're ignoring the most important piece of this puzzle: RENARIN.

Or maybe, deep down inside, I just really want Dalinar to die for some unthinkable reason. *sigh*

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The spear could be symbol of battle, war, etc, and could stand for the office of Highprince of War.  Which would mean that Dalinar could still die, but what I see happening, as Renarin is already Radiant Material, as is Dailinar, is Dalinar vacating the office for Adolin, to give Adolin a more important role in the books, and Dalinar can now go about Radianting.  Or something like that.

I just feel like the Kholins are turning into the Radiant Highprince super family, which I see as odd.  It might have something to do with the WoK (actual book), but I feel like Adolin does not need to become a Knight Radiant.

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19 minutes ago, Magestar said:

The spear could be symbol of battle, war, etc, and could stand for the office of Highprince of War.  Which would mean that Dalinar could still die, but what I see happening, as Renarin is already Radiant Material, as is Dailinar, is Dalinar vacating the office for Adolin, to give Adolin a more important role in the books, and Dalinar can now go about Radianting.  Or something like that.

I just feel like the Kholins are turning into the Radiant Highprince super family, which I see as odd.  It might have something to do with the WoK (actual book), but I feel like Adolin does not need to become a Knight Radiant.

No, he can be awesome and epic without Surgebinding. 

Excellent theory!

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