What did Szeth see?

[dvoraen]

17 hours ago, hwiles said:

From the Diagram:

Taravangian, in his super-human moment of genius, appears to be making the connection that the Honorblades are held by the Shin, grant the use of surges to their wielder, and are given to anyone who is declared to be Truthless.  The sentence: "Can we make to use a Truthless?" is worded in a very peculiar style.  It sounds to me to be simultaneously asking, "can we make a Truthless?" and "Can we use a Truthless?"

If I had to guess, I'd say Taravangian found a way to set Szeth up, that he somehow found a way to manipulate Szeth into believing the voidbringers were returning, though whether he did so through deceit or real evidence we can't say yet.  After Szeth's exile, Taravangian either lost track of him, or else deliberately allowed him to be passed around from master to master in the Rosharan underground to hone his skills as a surgebinder.  

While the Diagram does seem to support this, there's one major catch: Szeth was made Truthless several months (a year?)* before Gavilar's assassination.  To my recollection, the Diagram wasn't authored until after that event.  Another factoid is that Moelach's Death Rattles began well before Gavilar's assassination as well, while he was leading that expedition towards the Shattered Plains.  It's quite possible that Szeth simply ran across the effects of one of the Unmade waking up/returning and that alone is what caused him to raise a "false alarm".  It could even be something as silly as Szeth seeing a Voidspren that was unmistakably a Voidspren.

13 hours ago, iohn said:

When we first see Taln, at the gate to Kholinar, isn't he dripping with condensation? That would imply that he just came back from wherever the harolds go between desolations, or the cognitive realm or whatever. He's a stoneward, so on his own he does not have the ability to elsecall.

And this is the other reason I go :| over the subject of "Taln", because it's like you say regarding his state of being.  However, it's very unclear if that's his skin glistening from physical exertion -- "Taln" is practically dragging the blade behind him after cutting his way in, and collapses right after his warning; this implies physical exhaustion -- or if it's from undergoing that process you mention.

 

 

* "...Though he was in his thirty-fifth year -- and his seventh year since being named Truthless..." (I-3, p209 softback)

Edited August 31, 2016 by dvoraen

[+hwiles]

@dvoraen Actually, we don't specifically know when the Diagram was written.  Recall, the Alethi made first contact with the Parshendi something like a year before Gavilar's assassination IIRC, roughly around the same time Szeth was made Truthless; not sure if we can reasonably say which occurred first at this point.  We have the following from the Diagram:

Quote

There has to be an answer. What is the answer? Stop. The Parshendi. One of them. Yes they are the missing piece. Push for the Alethi to destroy them outright before this one obtains their power. It will form a bridge.

There are two ways to interpret this as I see it (at least with what we know so far).  The first is, the Diagram was written before Gavilar was assassinated, and Taravangian is the one who manipulated the Parshendi into using Szeth to kill Gavilar in hopes that the Alethi would crush them in an overwhelming counter-strike.  This would resolve the dilemma of "how the heck did the Parshendi, who shouldn't have any knowledge of the Shin, know Szeth was a Surgebinder and could be controlled via Oath Stone unless someone leaked the information to them?"  In this scenario it would make the most sense if Mr. T had been behind Szeth being named Truthless to begin with, as he was specifically looking for a Truthless he could groom into a kingslayer to use against rival kingdoms, while also trying to instigate a war against the Parshendi.

The second way is less fun in my opinion, but equally valid and supports your theory:  The Diagram was written after Gavilar's assassination and mr. T is just identifying and commenting on the fact that, since the Alethi are already at war with the Parshendi, the Parshendi need to be wiped out quickly or they might figure out how to adopt Stormform, which he correctly guesses would totally suck for mankind.

I don't like offering up counter-arguments to my own theory usually, but I think you're right that we just can't be sure yet.  Still fun to speculate though! 

[Argel]

 

2 hours ago, hwiles said:

Actually, we don't specifically know when the Diagram was written

We do know it was after Gavilar's assasination though (see below). It was also stated to be years before that 500 day chart. So likely within three years of Gavilar's assassination.

Quote

QUESTION ()
Did Taravangian go to see the Nightwatcher before or after Gavilar's assassination?
BRANDON SANDERSON
Um, oh man. I'm going to have to look at my timeline. I believe it's before, but I can't guarantee I'm right, because these things are all happening around the same time.

QUESTION
Because he says that Gavilar confided in him the night of.

BRANDON SANDERSON
Ooooh, you're right. Nope, it's after. It is after. You can send that question to Peter so we can confirm it. There might be something I'm forgetting about Taravangian.

[Peter said by PM: "As far as I can tell from what the book says, he went to the Nightwatcher after the assassination."]

 

Source: http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=Taravangian+Nightwatcher

Edited August 31, 2016 by Argel

[Yata]

14 minutes ago, Argel said:

 

We do know it was after Gavilar's assasination though (see below). It was also stated to be years before that 500 day chart. So likely within three years of Gavilar's assassination.

Source: http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=Taravangian+Nightwatcher

This actually reduce greatly how much the Diagram predicted (much more if we considerate that the Diagram may be written a lot of time later than Gavilar's death). Thanks I didn't read this WoB

Edited August 31, 2016 by Yata

[+hwiles]

4 hours ago, Argel said:

 

We do know it was after Gavilar's assasination though (see below). It was also stated to be years before that 500 day chart. So likely within three years of Gavilar's assassination.

Source: http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=Taravangian+Nightwatcher

Dang!  You have thoroughly slashed and defeated a tremendous amount of my content on this thread with a single well placed post, and it wasn't even a long one.  Good show!  Good show indeed!