Jofwu

Radial Heralds/Orders Chart

41 posts in this topic

Yeah, and Jezrien and Shalash are like daddy/daughter, right? I wonder if all the pairs are connected. I'd bet Ishar and Paliah are siblings, but look at that hair disparity. Maybe they're married.

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All the female Shard-side Heralds are women, and all male Shard-side Heralds are men... I do not believe this is a coincidence.

@jofwu, I didn't say anything until now, but this chart is really awesome, and kudos to you for making it. 

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42 minutes ago, Garglemesh said:

Oh my heck it's all boys on the top and girls on the bottom how did I never notice. With Stormfather creating a Bondsmith and being the spren of Honor, I'm convinced it's a scale from Honor to Cultivation now. Sorry if I'm slow here. Just... makin' connections. 

 

30 minutes ago, Garglemesh said:

Yeah, and Jezrien and Shalash are like daddy/daughter, right? I wonder if all the pairs are connected. I'd bet Ishar and Paliah are siblings, but look at that hair disparity. Maybe they're married.

 

Wow I never noticed that before.

Just to throw out some ideas based on the images of the Heralds (which I know, is going on next to nothing, but for a little fun,)

Jezrien/Shalash -Father/daughter, I believe confirmed?

Chanarach/Kalak - Well Kalak looks pretty young in his image, and Chanarach looks older than him, so if why not Mother/Son?

Talenel/Vedel - Look similar, though that's probably just the hoods.  Brother and sister?  (Why Talenel's sister would leave him alone in Braize is another story.)

Nale/Battar - No idea, husband and wife?

Ishar/Paliah - Even less of an idea.  They both have that ancient look to them, husband and wife again?

Just fun speculation.

 

In regards to the male shard side/female shard side, as many have said, there has to be something to that.

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22 minutes ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

 

 

Wow I never noticed that before.

Just to throw out some ideas based on the images of the Heralds (which I know, is going on next to nothing, but for a little fun,)

Jezrien/Shalash -Father/daughter, I believe confirmed?

Chanarach/Kalak - Well Kalak looks pretty young in his image, and Chanarach looks older than him, so if why not Mother/Son?

Talenel/Vedel - Look similar, though that's probably just the hoods.  Brother and sister?  (Why Talenel's sister would leave him alone in Braize is another story.)

Nale/Battar - No idea, husband and wife?

Ishar/Paliah - Even less of an idea.  They both have that ancient look to them, husband and wife again?

Crazy theory time! 

All the Heralds are related. The Herdazian practice of having large families with lots of cousins was started as a way of imitating the Heralds, and all of the references to Lopen's cousins are foreshadowing for the reveal about the Heralds. 

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Wow, that ship sailed to Speculationland so fast, I couldn't even see it leave harbor.

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First, my latest wave of black options. All the same thing, just with the white text at different shades. The first is basically the same as the first one in the last post. The next two have it dimmed a bit more. I lean towards the 2nd or 3rd personally. I tried making the surge symbols darker, but they just look awkward being a different shade than the text beneath them. And if you darken that text then it's weird having the attributes/gems/essences a different shade. Just feels best to have all of these a similar shade.

heralds black 5a.pngheralds black 5b.pngheralds black 5c.png

Okay, I must have just been confused here. Is that not correct? The Ars Arcanum relates the gemstones with an essence, at least (I assume) as far as Vorinism is concerned. Though to me the "soulcasting properties" suggests that the gemstone and essence are related. In fact, I assume that the essences were naturally drawn from the soulcasting properties of the gem.

Or are you just saying that the gem/essence aren't related to the Radiant Order that they fall under? If that's all then I'm okay with it. Though happy to hide them if you'd like a version without. :)

 

6 hours ago, Argent said:

three primary concentric circles

Interesting idea... I'd keep the order names on the edge, I think. But basically pull the order symbols out so they have more room to breathe. What would you put in the middle band that isn't already there? Other things from the Ars Arcanum chart? Associated spren that we know of? Or just stick with the info already there, just using the middle to hold the text-heavy bits without cluttering the order symbols?

 

2 hours ago, Garglemesh said:

Oh my heck it's all boys on the top and girls on the bottom how did I never notice. With Stormfather creating a Bondsmith and being the spren of Honor, I'm convinced it's a scale from Honor to Cultivation now. Sorry if I'm slow here. Just... makin' connections. 

All this time staring at the image and I didn't notice! That's pretty interesting.

Though i do think that, if there's a "Honor-Cultivation" spectrum of some kind here that the opposites ends would be Jezrien/Windrunners and Shalash/Lightweavers, which puts one woman on the Honor side and one man on the Cultivation side. First interesting point is that she is his daughter (I doubt EVERY opposite pair is related somehow). Second is that the Windrunner spren is literally "honorspren"... And they clash strongly with their "opposites", the cryptics. When you split the chart this way, the divine attributes on either side seem to fit better as well... Brave/Obedient seems more like Honor to me while Resolute/Builder sounds more like Cultivation.

Edited by jofwu
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Agreed. Have an upvote. It did require rotating the chart though. (it would still be the same scale, but harder to notice)

On 8/22/2016 at 0:08 PM, Jondesu said:

Love it! Edit: Made it my phone's lock screen.

jW

IMG_1878.PNG

You made a lock for your screen? BONDSMITH ALERT! lol

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Hmm, I guess gems and essences are related to one another. Okay then. 

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On 8/24/2016 at 3:48 PM, jofwu said:

Though i do think that, if there's a "Honor-Cultivation" spectrum of some kind here that the opposites ends would be Jezrien/Windrunners and Shalash/Lightweavers, which puts one woman on the Honor side and one man on the Cultivation side. First interesting point is that she is his daughter (I doubt EVERY opposite pair is related somehow). Second is that the Windrunner spren is literally "honorspren"... And they clash strongly with their "opposites", the cryptics. When you split the chart this way, the divine attributes on either side seem to fit better as well... Brave/Obedient seems more like Honor to me while Resolute/Builder sounds more like Cultivation.

By having Ishar at the top, we are following the same alignment as the "double eye of the Almighty". You put it at the center of the circle, so it makes sense to align according to it.

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7 hours ago, FiveLate said:

Following further...there has been no WoB I know of that says Odium himself shattered Honor, just that Honor died.   

Tanavast said, "Odium has killed me," in the text and there's this WoB about Honor being Splintered. Seems pretty unlikely to me that Odium specifically killed Tanavast without splintering Honor, and then Honor was splintered for some other reason.

Not disagreeing with everything here- just that one assertion.

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7 hours ago, FiveLate said:

2) The male female bit....did that hold true to all orders?  I notice that if you track all proven radiant currently it does.

Nope. Check Recreance vision. Stonewards and Windrunners, both male and female.

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On 8/19/2016 at 2:26 PM, Jofwu said:

I made these and wanted to share. Comes in two flavors. That's all!

These are amazing! Awesome job @Jofwu.

You should see if they would sell these on the Brandon Sanderson store, they are awesome.

One small modification that might make the chart cooler would be a slight revision to the God's eye Knights Radiant Hourglass in the center of the disk.

I made a version to show you what I am talking about:

RadialHeralds_OrdersChart.thumb.png.a24d41cffbbdd41d53d028d98075c95c.png

This version emphasizes the connections between the orders of KRs and shows the double pupil of the Gods eye. The position and the coloration make it pretty obvious which circle in the KR hourglass corresponds to which order.

I have an AI file of this if you want it, I don't think the colors are exactly right, but I think this implementation is pretty cool, and you could alter it to get the colors looking better (if you want).

Truly outstanding job on this, I would totally buy one of this from the store (printed out on thick shiny cover stock).

One possible modification idea, it already looks like a color wheel, what kind of information could be revealed/connected by spinning different levels of the wheel. I honestly haven't given it much thought, but one possible idea would be to have a die-cut window where the Glyph for the order appears, and an outer concentric ring with the Ideals for a given order, when you spin the outer ring, only when the ideals match the correct order would the glyphs show up in the die cut window. Just spitballing, but really this is beautiful, you did a great job with this, and it's an incredibly handy reference beautifully put together.

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
typo, like usual
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IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE PAILIAH! Arg....

Thanks too Argent for pointing this out. Pailiah's name has been spelled wrong all this time. 

Fun history fact: I think we originally got her name way back when from a WoB and somehow came away with a bad spelling. (probably transcribed that way) It ended up on the wiki (and all over the place) with this incorrect spelling, and just kept getting propagated. (Exhibit A: this chart!) Peter happened across her page on Coppermind a while back (years after WoR had given us the correct spelling and nobody noticed the error) and pointed out the error. 

I personally went through and fixed every instance I could find on the wiki and a few other places... Unfortunately I didn't realize I had it wrong on my own darn chart! :lol:

Hoping to update it this week sometime, when I get a chance to dig up the files. :) 

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Ah that made me laugh @Jofwu. I hadn't realized that history. Though the error always bugged me because Paliah isn't symmetrical :lol:

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Alright, for my 1000th post on the 17th Shard... 

Updated version with correct Pailiah spelling!

I'm too lazy/busy to figure out exactly what I did to make the multiple black versions, so I'm not toying with that. You only get two options now, sorry. :) Original post is updated.

heralds6a.png heralds6b.png

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