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What happens when you burn Trellium? [Secret History Spoilers]


HonorIsDead

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I was just thinking, Trellium is, I assume a God metal, like Lerasium or Atium, we aren't sure of that of course, it was just discovered, but i'm curious, what the heck do you guys think it does when you burn it? Also, what do you think the limitations are? I know all/any theories you suggest will be quite out there, i'm just curious as to what you would like to see, and what you think Scadrial could use power wise.

leave any ideas you might have

Edited by The_God_King
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Like Voidus said, without a Mistborn we can't know it and there is the same problem with the Feruchemical effect without a Full Feruchemist.

But to be Honest the Kandra may discover the Allomantic Trellium effect, in the BoM there are the full array of Allomantic Power, while I am unsure if a Full Feruchemist take part to its creation.

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2 hours ago, Yata said:

Like Voidus said, without a Mistborn we can't know it and there is the same problem with the Feruchemical effect without a Full Feruchemist.

But to be Honest the Kandra may discover the Allomantic Trellium effect, in the BoM there are the full array of Allomantic Power, while I am unsure if a Full Feruchemist take part to its creation.

How? Unless the Bands were created at a point in time where Trellium was available then they couldn't have stored the ability to burn it since they don't even know what it is.

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9 minutes ago, Voidus said:

How? Unless the Bands were created at a point in time where Trellium was available then they couldn't have stored the ability to burn it since they don't even know what it is.

I see it differently.

If a Mistborn stored his Spirit-Web (and there are a 95% that this happen because we know there was a Mistborn in the BoM's Research team). The BoM will contain the whole spectrum of Mistborn's power... As "I can burn everything". this to me means that a BoM's user may burn the 16 metals, Atium and its alloys, Lerasium (but actually everybody may do this), Harmonium, Trellium, Raysium,ecc..

It's the reason I doubt the Bands may be used to access to Feruchemical Trellium, unless a Full Feruchemist take part to the project.

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Except of course this metal gives you a power itself. To burn Lerasium you don't have to be a Mistborn as well.

Maybe it's even the way to become a Full Feruchemist, and this metal (and Trell himself) already were once on Scadrial some hundreds/thousands of years ago :P (I don't expect that to be the case either).

I just want to say, if it is what here everyone thinks (don't think we have a confirmation, do we?) it's a godmetal. Maybe you need to be Mistborn to burn it, maybe not, you really can't tell. As it is a godmetal it's really different from all the others.

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I'm guessing with Trellium spike hiding you from Preservation sight, perhaps burning Trellium would mess your Connection or Identity somehow? For example, lowering your Connection/Identity "levels" so that people don't pay attention to you or the like (I have no idea whatsoever if Connection or Identity can do that), basically becoming invisible.

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@Rasarr maybe, its a good Idea but that doesn't really seem like a "good" power to have, all the other godmetals have uses that are really useful (seeing the future a tad, and becoming a mistborn) on the other hand that seems like it would be fairly useless, aside from to hide from gods you maybe connected to

@Voidus@YataThere is always still the bead of Lerasium that Hoid has, and I assume that Harmony could make anybody a mistborn at will, also, you don't NEED a mistborn, its just easier that way, you could still look for a misting to do it, it would just be a lot more difficult.  As for the bands, idk, it seems a little far fetched, and anyways, it is unlikely that even if the Kandra discover what it can do they will inform anybody, aside from Harmony, who probably already knows but isn't letting himself tell them as it would be too much help.

I assume we will see it sometime in the 3rd arch of Mistborn sometime, though probably only near the end of the series

Also, @Kingsdaughter613, you have an opinion you want to share?

Edited by The_God_King
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3 hours ago, Yata said:

Lerasium (but actually everybody may do this), Harmonium, Trellium, Raysium,ecc

I don't think that Harmonium will be an alloy, its possible but harmony is really just a combination of preservation and ruin, both of whom already have their own godmetals so I doubt harmony would get his own when he already pretty much has 2

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It's impossible to be a Godmetal misting in nature.

Leras have to made trick and messing with the Snapping to get his own Seer Army. This mean that unless Sazed create this specific Misting, nobody other than a Mistborn may burn trellium. I always try to avoid the "godlike direct action" in those kind of problem, because everything became leterally a Deus Ex Machina and as you said quite surelly Harmony already know every effect of the Trellium (I use the "quite" only because the stealth propriety of Trellium may be an issue to Harmony's knowledge)

I agree with Rasarr about the possible Trellium's Allomantic Effect. The stealth path is the right one to me. I though about Invisibility physical and Cognitive but I may be wrong.

About the balance of the godmetal's power, to me it's meaningless. It's possible that a Godmetal may be quite useless in a Metallic Art without ruin (ok bad joke) nothing. It's not an rpg where the power need to be on the same tier.

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16 minutes ago, Yata said:

It's impossible to be a Godmetal misting in nature.

Leras have to made trick and messing with the Snapping to get his own Seer Army. This mean that unless Sazed create this specific Misting, nobody other than a Mistborn may burn trellium. I always try to avoid the "godlike direct action" in those kind of problem, because everything became leterally a Deus Ex Machina and as you said quite surelly Harmony already know every effect of the Trellium (I use the "quite" only because the stealth propriety of Trellium may be an issue to Harmony's knowledge)

I agree with Rasarr about the possible Trellium's Allomantic Effect. The stealth path is the right one to me. I though about Invisibility physical and Cognitive but I may be wrong.

About the balance of the godmetal's power, to me it's meaningless. It's possible that a Godmetal may be quite useless in a Metallic Art without ruin (ok bad joke) nothing. It's not an rpg where the power need to be on the same tier.

not true, as shown by the final battle of the first series where they got a group of atium mistings to fight off the koloss, and i'm pretty sure it wasn't a trick, they just hadn't been snapped before that point, seeing as plenty of people hadn't been, it was also a way of showing which ones they had just ignored being mistings before that time because they didn't know about them

as for harmony, unless he desperately needs someone with a trillium ability i'm pretty sure we can rule him out

I think invisibility in the physical realm would be a more useful version, or maybe not invisibility but a bit like if you have read Zeroes, the guy named anonymous, where he isn't invisible but people just can't keep anything concrete about him in their head, they can't look directly at him and can't think about him, he is there and visible, but nobody can pay attention to him

yah, but you would expect them to all be more or less the same amount of power, otherwise certain shards would be able to completely obliterate their opposites, also they were all part of Adonalsium and therefore I would assume they all got about the same level of power in the split, meaning their "bodies" or the godmetals should all be fairly even, I can't say for sure its that way but it would make the most sense

and anyways, there still is one mistborn left to be had at some point, whether or not Hoid actually ingests it we won't know for a while, but its still there
 

Edited by The_God_King
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20 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

not true, as shown by the final battle of the first series where they got a group of atium mistings to fight off the koloss, and i'm pretty sure it wasn't a trick, they just hadn't been snapped before that point, seeing as plenty of people hadn't been, it was also a way of showing which ones they had just ignored being mistings before that time because they didn't know about them

No man, Leras (Preservation) made possible Seer and Malatium's Misting to made possible to have an army who may burn Ruin's body. But it's a messing of a Shard in the magic who fuels. The Mist were setted to made this possible thousand of years ago. The MistSnapping was a tool to create more Allomancer than before and to made possible the Seer's birth. It's was designed to Snap a precise fraction of the popolation to suggest a Intelligent Guide.

We have not sure proof but Sazed fixed this because there is no more need of this trick when he changed the Snapping method.

EDIT: From Coppermind

Quote

However, Preservation could still alter Allomancy in certain ways. He changed the rules of Allomancy twice: the first time, he changed the Table of Allomantic Metals to have atium and malatium as external temporal metals, exchanging them with cadmium and bendalloy.[Citation needed] This may have had the effect of allowing for the existence of atium Mistings. Ultimately, this was part of Preservation’s plan to defeat Ruin: to have atium Mistings that could burn away Ruin’s body of atium,

 

Edited by Yata
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@ Yata

Are you really sure that there never Seer-Mistings?

As I remember it, they said there might always have been (damnation, is that correct? :P ) Seers, but they never found them, as they only tested all the metals on peoples, except Atium, as it would be to much of waist as it's really expensive. I know the snapping was changed, agree about that, but wasn't it just changed so the Mist itself could cause the snapping, and not only when you were badly injured? I mean, this was definitly a change in it, as something like that never used to happen (even if Skaas were scared of the mists).

Edited by Thunder_93
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ok, I have never heard that before but I will take your word for it

maybe, I think that the metal will show up as being burned in the next series, either by a mistborn possibly created by Hoid, or if harmony gets really desperate about a problem and decides its time to bring back mistborns or just create the new mistings

also there may be more Lerasium laying around somewhere, waiting to be discovered

Edited by The_God_King
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1 hour ago, The_God_King said:

also there may be more Lerasium laying around somewhere, waiting to be discovered

I don't think there is any more Lerasium or Atium to be found. They were there and kept re-growing because the two Shards naturally created physical embodiments of their power while they existed, now they don't exist separately like that, so I would think all the power would pool into the Physical Realm as Harmonium, which's effect we don't know. 

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17 minutes ago, Radiant Returned said:

They were there and kept re-growing because the two Shards naturally created physical embodiments of their power while they existed, now they don't exist separately like that, so I would think all the power would pool into the Physical Realm as Harmonium, which's effect we don't know. 

I don't think it's true.

The Shards as far as we see don't create solid embodiments of their power.. the only natural outcome of Shard's power are the Shardpool. The Atium exist only because a Shard (preservation) made a willing act to condensate the stolen part of Ruin in the Pits of Hatsin in solid form (power that I think Sazed didn't retrived from there).

The Lerasium in the same way was (probably) created by Leras as a Willing Act, not for some nature factor (I have a theory about the remaining beads of Lerasium were used in the past but it's beyond this topic's point)

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Has it actually been confirmed that trellium is a godmetal? Is it possible that it's simply another metal from a different world that just doesn't exist on Scadrial? The ones blocking Saze could be preventing him from finding out what it is. All we really know is that Harmony doesn't know what it is, and Wax and the kandra think it's a godmetal. Is there a WoB that it is?

Did you know that Bismuth looks a bit like Trellium in some forms?

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3 minutes ago, Yata said:

 

I don't think it's true.

The Shards as far as we see don't create solid embodiments of their power.. the only natural outcome of Shard's power are the Shardpool. The Atium exist only because a Shard (preservation) made a willing act to condensate the stolen part of Ruin in the Pits of Hatsin in solid form (power that I think Sazed didn't retrived from there).

The Lerasium in the same way was (probably) created by Leras as a Willing Act, not for some nature factor (I have a theory about the remaining beads of Lerasium were used in the past but it's beyond this topic's point)

I think that makes sense, preservation sacrificed his body to trap ruins body and they both slowly leaked back into the world, but you still never know, there is probably still a few beads of atium buried somewhere and there is a very very low chance there might be another bead of lerasium, one that Hoid didn't steal 

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3 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Has it actually been confirmed that trellium is a godmetal? Is it possible that it's simply another metal from a different world that just doesn't exist on Scadrial? The ones blocking Saze could be preventing him from finding out what it is. All we really know is that Harmony doesn't know what it is, and Wax and the kandra think it's a godmetal. Is there a WoB that it is?

Did you know that Bismuth looks a bit like Trellium in some forms?

As far as I know there isn't any canon direct information about Trellium=Godmetal. But as soon as you think about it can't be something else.

The Trellium is a metal who is compatible with the Metallic Arts and it's a metal outside of Harmony's portfollio.

The Metallic Arts works only with the 16 right metal (8 base metals + 8 of Base Metals's alloys) and with godmetals (that in my mind are quite a little hack to the metallic arts) and their alloys. It's stated by someone with the full understanding of the Realmatic Theory and the quite godlike Knowledge therefore I immagine we may take this words as true.

Therefore if Sazed said that it's not a mundane metal. This mean it have to be a supernatural metal born from another entity (this mean Shards or their offspring).

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Hemalurgy is intentionally more open, and it has been theorized that you'd need, say, a gemstone to spike someone on Roshar. I have yet to see anyone tapping or burning Trellium ( hence this thread.) We don't know that it will work with allomancy and feruchemy; we're guessing. If you can spike someone with a gem stone, would we assume an allomancer could burn it?

Until we get a WoB on Trellium being a godmetal we have to at least acknowledge the possibility, however unlikely, that it isn't. And it wouldn't be the first time we've been completely mistaken on how something works.

Anyone else think it's cool that Bismuth can look like Trellium? (This has nothing to do with anything; I just think it's awesome.)

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Yes I know the theory about the "other-material-spikes" but to be honest I always find it quite no-sense.

It's like to remove the focus from the magic system. The Hemalurgy's focus (or to be more precise The Scadrial's Focus) is Metal and so long that Ruin (Harmony) is Invested in Scadrial and the Hemalurgy exist, you are bind to its rules. You can't performe Hemalurgy without.

But it's not this topic's matter therefore sorry for the digression

Edited by Yata
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sure its a possibility that its no very probable, it is, after all called "Trellium" which of course derives from the name Trell, much like Lerasium or Atium, also i'm pretty sure any shard that arrived on Scadrial would probably bring their own type of metal, like what might happen with spren on Roshar if a new shard arrived, it is after all their body in the physical realm, its not a bad guess that its a god metal,

if its not then there is still another god metal on Scadrial, otherwise Trell, or whoever he really is, won't have a physical aspect, and it would be pretty dumb to name a metal after a god and not even have it be their metal

also, wasn't it just described as being red, bismuth is pretty much every colour

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Pure bismuth is actually a dull metallic grey with a reddish tinge or streaks. The incredible colors are actually from other elements, not the metal itself. At least that was my understanding. I just thought it was cool.

There are only two Shards on Scadrial, Ruin and Preservation. Harmony counts as two. (Someone asked this one.) Better question: Is there another Shard in the system, as opposed to the planet? Because a Shard doesn't actually have to be present to invest.

The word Trellium does not actually occur in the books. WE call the metal that; the in world characters don't. A small distinction, but an important one.

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Eh. Okay.
First of all, Mistborn can burn any metal that is usable in Metallic Arts. However, to be able to use another Shard's power, said Shard have to do certain things.

There was a WoB that somebody asked that if Odium came to Scadrial, could Harmony make a legion of raysium burners? The answer was that a Shard has to do certain things to make it's power accesible on said world and that Odium did those things on Roshar.

So if we took a Mistborn who was born before arrival of Trell, said Mistborn could not burn trellium. However, if that Mistborn was born after Trell made its power accesible on Scadrial, the Mistborn could burn trellium.

Somebody here made an assumption that Bands' nicrosil contains "Mistborn ability to burn any metal". That's wrong. If there existed "ability to burn anything", it would be stealable by Hemalurgy and we know that if you spike a Mistborn, you can only take one power and others are lost. So when storing nicrosil, you have to store powers separately.

The name "trellium" is fandom-only because there is no canon name to call it. It indicates that that metal is godmetal of Trell, as it cannot be one of sixteen basic metals and it is not atium, nor lerasium and it is not harmonium. Because Harmony does not know what is it.

So, unless somebody bred a Mistborn or a trellium Misting was created, there is nobody able to burn that metal.

 

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13 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Somebody here made an assumption that Bands' nicrosil contains "Mistborn ability to burn any metal". That's wrong. If there existed "ability to burn anything", it would be stealable by Hemalurgy and we know that if you spike a Mistborn, you can only take one power and others are lost. So when storing nicrosil, you have to store powers separately.

Probably I am wrong about the possibility of an old Mistborn to burn Trellium (unless "trell" was on Scadrial from a lot of time but I find it unlikely), but I think the quoted part is not so sure.

The Medallion tech we saw seems to point elsewhere. A nircosilmind may be filled with many abilities at once. We saw them all the time in the book. It's never stated there are more pieces of Nicrosil in a Medallion (the coin is a perfect example)

Hemalurgy doesn't allow to steal multiple attributes with a single Spike but this don't say anything about how the Soulbearer's power works.

Edited by Yata
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