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Erklitt

Listener Forms and KR spren

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In a recent discussion about Glys there was the idea that maybe the very same kind of spren that bond humans might be behind some of the Parshendi forms.

I thought some more about this and have a few other suggestions. I wasn't looking too much at the heralds' attributes (after all, the heralds only 'adopted' patronage of the orders after their founding) but rather at other things we know about the orders.

Here are the correspondences I think might fit. (All quotes from the chapter epigraphs in WoR)

Edgedancers - Mateform (compare Edgedancers' oath)

Quote

"To find this form, one must care. True empathy one must employ." Ch. 14


Truthwatchers - Nightform (compare Renarin)

Quote

"Nightform predicting what will be... A new storm will come..." Ch. 23


Lightweavers - Artform (most obvious if there is anything to this at all)

Quote

"Artform applied for beauty and hue." Ch. 20 


Bondsmiths - Mediationform (compare Bondsmiths' oath and Dalinar's goals)

Quote

"Mediationform made for peace ... form of teaching" Ch. 21

Much less of a fit, but still maybe worth half a thought:

Windrunners - Warform (they can jump pretty far)
Dustbringers - Decayform (I really think Decayform is a Voidform, but still: both might be able to turn stone to dust)

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Interesting theory, but it has a few holes.  For one, Syl talks about the evil spren she sees in the highstorms, which suggests that voidish forms come from different spren.  It might stand to reason that there are similarities in the powers, given that they are from the same planet, in fact the void binding diagram has the same surges with half-rotated glyphs.

Also, there's the quote from the Nightform about "It should be possible to blend their surges to ours in the end."  If this were possible, then it would be virtually impossible if the same spren, when bonded, changed the form.

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15 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

Interesting theory, but it has a few holes.  For one, Syl talks about the evil spren she sees in the highstorms, which suggests that voidish forms come from different spren.  It might stand to reason that there are similarities in the powers, given that they are from the same planet, in fact the void binding diagram has the same surges with half-rotated glyphs.

Also, there's the quote from the Nightform about "It should be possible to blend their surges to ours in the end."  If this were possible, then it would be virtually impossible if the same spren, when bonded, changed the form.

As for your first point: There are a lot more forms than orders. So of course there would be kinds of spren that never bond a human but provide a Listener form. Some of those are voidish spren, who of course would never make a surgebinder.  Stormspren are one, and despite my last suggestion I rather believe that the spren providing Decayform are also Voidspren. So I see no contradiction here.

Your second argument is more convincing. But in my opinion not completely compelling. The process of providing a form could be so different from bonding a surgebinder that it might be up to the spren which one it performs. It's an interesting question anyway: once a Listener turns Surgebinder: will they retain their current form? Can a Warform be an Edgedancer or a Mateform a Skybreaker? Can a Dullform be any KR? Maybe form and order are even related by the very fact which spren can provide either (like, if my associations are correct, maybe only Artform could become a Lightweaver, because their one spren does both...)

Anyway, I'm aware there might be nothing to this. In case you haven't followed that other thread: the idea was born of the question why Brandon thought it so important not to show us what Glys looks like. The dominant ideas were related to Ym's spren and Wyndle, and the theories making most sense seemed to point to Glys really being a voidspren. An idea which many, including me, didn't like, so we searched for alternatives. It's no more than a 'Maybe... what if' thought - but one I'd like to follow a step further.

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I distinctly remember the Listeners trying to attract creationspren in order to change into artform. While the Cryptics are the spren that make Lightweavers. Now maybe the Listeners had the wrong idea trying to use creationspen in the firstplace, who know? But It seems to me that artfom and Lightweaving aren't corresponding forms. But it does help with the idea that listeners need two spren in order to become KR. One for the correct form and another for the Nahel bond.

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While I don't think that this theory is really that plausible, I think that it's more possible that void forms partially correspond to the orders of the nights radiant, like one void form for each radiant order. Also, Nightform is very interesting, since it seems to be one of the forms that really defines voidbinding, since seeing into the future is quite possibly evil. (Also, tangent, but I have a suspicion that Renarin isn't actually one of the knights radiant and that he's accidentally bonded to a voidspren, since Truthwatchers have the surges of lightweaving and growth. But ignore this, it's a really shady area.)

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19 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

in fact the void binding diagram has the same surges with half-rotated glyphs.

If you are discussing the chart I think you are discussing then it is worth mentioning that we do not actually know if that is the "Voidbinding" chart or if it corresponds to something else (e.g. fabrials). 

See this thread: 

 

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