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Robinski - 160802 - Qk - Submission 2 - 2950 words (L)


Robinski

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Hey there.

After the three character ‘portraits’ from last time, I am following on through the writing exercises of Writing Excuses Season 10. The next one arises from a cast about secondary characters and making these rounded and interesting individuals, it goes like this:

 

(S10-E7) Pick one of the dead-drop characters from the exercise two weeks ago, and turn them into a secondary character. Now take one of the characters with whom they interacted, and write the same scene again, but from this new character’s POV.

Here is my attempt. The comments I'm looking really just relate back to the prompt and the cast. Is Grimes interesting, how does Moth come across as a secondary character, which is what she might become if I write out this story – which I hope to.

Then, the next prompt after that requires me to imagine the scene before and after the main character scenes of the dead drop.

 

(S10-E8) Sketch out the events before and after your dead-drop scene from last week and three weeks ago.

For Q, I have a bit written more than the outline that they asked for. I just sort of happened that way, because I'm getting into the characters and itching to write a story for them. So, following the Grimes perspective below, there are Q then M’s before and after the drop scenes. Are there interesting? Again, character comments, please.

Thanks for reading!!

<R>

p.s. An apology – last time, I should have had a big on ‘L’ for language tag on my submission – just completely forgot. Sorry!!

p.p.s  Sorry this is late.

Edited by Robinski
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Hey there, <R>,

You know I've read a 'few' pages of your writing...and I have to say--this submission felt like a different person's writing. I paused and wondered if you'd sent it through an alpha read with someone first, but I don't think you did. The two characters showed a level of complexity that drew me into the story and made me want more. There were a couple of moments of transitory confusion in narration with some unclear imagery or blocking, but overall, it flowed really well. The tension never went high, but I didn't mind it. The characters, Grimes with his stinging memories and unfolding self and Moth with her interesting setup as a convent girl and her moods suggesting a real person struggling behind the garb of religious dedication. They were both interesting.

Whatever you're doing, keep doing it. This was great.

/k

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I agree with krystalynn.  This was very well done.

General comments:

pg 2: "(something that still occupied scientists, apparently) "
--I got this, but I had to read it a couple times.

pg 3: very nice.  I like that Grimes is experiencing something completely different
behind his smile than what Moth thought.

pg 3: "Toni’s father always had liked a mystery. Clearly, the kid had not fallen far from the Fantano tree."
--missed what this referred to.

pg 3: "wasn’t looking forward to meeting Fantano."
--ok, some more explanation for the above.

pg 4: "A muffled curse brought him back to the here and now."
--I like how you've "included" all Moth's foul language without actually swearing.

Quirk before and after:  Definitely the most enjoyable personality you're writing.  Not much to say about the plot per se., but I want to read more and see what he does.

Moth before and after:  before is sort of a relief to find out why she was out there in the first place.
"funky future ice cream tech " - Dippin Dots, I assume.
"near miss with Quick" - Quirk?

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Looking forward to this!

Overall

I didn't enjoy this as much as your first character sketches, but I still really liked it. More detailed comments below, and some LBLs. Seriously though, can we have more Quirk picking up women in cafes? Please?

Thoughts on Grimes: Hmm. I found this section choppy, and I didn't connect with the character. I think part of the issue was that I know Moth from your last submission, and I really liked her, so getting only bits and pieces now is frustrating. She comes across as a caricature here, and I will admit that makes me sad. 

Thoughts on Quirk: Not as tight as the first round. The pre drop I had a hard time with, per comments below. Post drop I loved. Can we get a vignette where he just picks up women in cafes? I would pay money for that, hands down.

Thoughts on Moth: Not much to say here, as I can't get a good sense from the outline. Suspicion (pre drop) contrasting with ice cream (post drop), has potential as you navigate this awkward stage of young womanhood with Moth that I would be interested to read, if done well

As I go

- the first two sentences of the first paragraph really grab me. Like, WOW grab me. Then the rest of the paragraph confuses me. I don't understand what you are talking about.

- Also confused about the transport quip (something that still occupied scientists, apparently). What is this referencing?

- 'crazy train station' is showing, not telling. Describe some craziness!

- page two and Grime's throat tightens as he smiles as Moth. Unsure how I am supposed to be feeling about him now. Is he that kind of sketchy? It's a good descriptor, so just wanting you to know where it sends my head.

- Next paragraph clears that up. Misses his daughter. Check. Not a creeper then.

- Some type of transition is needed between the girl adopting him paragraph, and the Italian policeman cliche paragraph. 

- page three, paragraph with 'the train rolled in'. Twice now Moth has been described as 'impatient'. Might want to show this instead of tell the second time around

- page 5: hehehe 'colon of a whale'

- 'tight and hot" and now I'm laughing out loud

- page 5, and the discussion of hips, balls, and seats: Quirk is different here, from the first sub. This text comes off more coarse than your last. Before I had the image of almost a dandy. Certainly suave. Here we get more salt of the earth with some culture. One isn't inherently better than the other, but I do find them conflicting.

- page 6: 'she wore black beautifully': YES. +1 to imagery

- Confused about scientists calculating the length of her skirt. Does that mean it is short? I mean, I'm a scientist, and I like women, so I'm trying desperately to figure this phrase out, because skirt calculation is something I could get behind.

- page 6: Quirk's plumage comment puts us back on the dandy route.

- Loving the banter between Quirk and the woman. Solid.

 

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Thanks so much for the comments, guys. If my eyelids didn't feel like sandpaper, I would respond to them now, but I will be more likely to do them justice in the morning. I feel though that I cannot leave Kaisa hanging on news of Newton's Sixth Law of Skirt Length. I was trying to imply that the length of her skirt was perfect nd clearly therefore the result of much research, possilby by rocket scientists. I maybe didn't nail that line however.

Quirk is still shifting a bit. Gah, I'm going to stop making sense in about 4 seconds. More to followzzzzzzzzzz

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16 hours ago, krystalynn03 said:

this submission felt like a different person's writing. I paused and wondered if you'd sent it through an alpha read with someone first, but I don't think you did. The two characters showed a level of complexity that drew me into the story and made me want more.

Thank you, Krystalynn - I'm really pleased that these characters interested you. I really enjoy writing fantasy, and have also told myself it's what I want to do more than anything else, but there's a wee part of my brain nagging away at the rest of the grey blubber that tells me I'm better (relative term) at SF. Why should that be when these are character portraits and not plot and setting? Dunno - something to do with the trappings of modern life, perhaps, and the ability to use modern idioms and slang, etc.

No other writing groups were involved, certainly. It's hot off the press, I only scanned through it briefly a second time before submitting. I suppose I had the advantage of writing the same scene from Moth's POV earlier, but I'm greatly encouraged by your reaction (and the others). I had thought of this as a series of short stories, but maybe I'm increasingly thinking that it needs a novella to establish the main characters. Is it a novel? I'm not sure it is.

Thank you again, /k, much appreciated.

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11 hours ago, Mandamon said:

Not much to say about the plot per se., but I want to read more and see what he does.

Thank you, Mandamon, really helpful comments, as ever. Plot-wise, there is virtually nothing because the exercises are all about character at this stage. This said, I have a plot thread running behind these events, but I'm dropping no clues at all. Season 10 goes onto plot next, so be prepared for some more details to chew on, I hope. The exercise I am doing now is to take a piece of media I like and reverse engineer a lot from it. I've chosen Strange Days, Kathryn Bigelow's 1995 SF film starting Ralph Fiennes, Angela Bassett and Juliette Lewis, which has always been one of my favourites. I doubt I'll post my outline up though, as it will have too many spoilers for a story I will very probably write.

11 hours ago, Mandamon said:

Quirk before and after:  Definitely the most enjoyable personality you're writing.

This is heartening, as I still perceive him as the main character but, like all the best 'TV' (whatever that means anymore) shows, I'd like to think that if I can get these characters running as regulars, there will be Moth POV stories from time to time, or at least scenes in longer stories, perhaps.

11 hours ago, Mandamon said:

"funky future ice cream tech " - Dippin Dots, I assume.

Rofl - nah, that's definitely low hanging 'fruit'. I'll need to raise the (chocolate) bar here. Maybe the ice cream changes colour, or has a Bertie Bott's Every Flavour Beans thing going on (except that's been done really well already). I'll think of something...

Thanks again. Man, greatly appreciated.

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Thank you for these excellent comments, Kaisa, you had me at...

11 hours ago, kaisa said:

Looking forward to this!

Anyway...

11 hours ago, kaisa said:

can we have more Quirk picking up women in cafes? Please?

Well yes, I do believe you can. My concept for Quirk seems to continue to morph from Han Solo, Peter Quill (oops) wisecracking rogue to more like a John Wick, Vincent Vega, Captain Jack Harkness (one for the laddies), Jean-Luc Piccard - cool, calm, collected with a razor wit (okay, not Wick and Vega) and equally sharp dress sense. Once you throw in a smattering of Bond, I think there is plenty of potential for multiple encounters through these stories.

I know I've been flirting with Quirk's sexuality in these outlines (The name's Bond, gay Bond.) I don't know how closely I'm going to examine that, but I'd like to keep it as a feature of his character. I'm tentative with it, because it's something I have very little experience of. I've one gay friend, and one who I think might be, he just doesn't know it...

11 hours ago, kaisa said:

hehehe 'colon of a whale' - 'tight and hot" and now I'm laughing out loud

I like to think that I'll be able to maintain this high standard of quippery through the story(ies). I want the world to laugh.

Thank you again, Kaisa - great comments, much appreciated.

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If votes are being counted, I'd like to throw one in for Quark being at least bi. There aren't a lot of bi characters, especially in sff, and I think you already have a great scaffold built for it. Also, then we could get this pick up stuff on twice as many people!

it could be a challenging exercise, too, for you. 'Stay in your lane' trends aside, a good writer should be able to see through many types of eyes. 

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Okay, per before, due to the nature of the submission I'm going to hold off on most prose commentary and sentence-level structural comments, and stick to the broad strokes.

P.1

n/a

P.2

I'm not loving Grimes thus far, if only because the prose feels sort of awkward all around. Laying it on way too thick; he'd feel more sympathetic with more elegant phrasing overall. This feels a little sloppy, in a way that I'm not sure is to the benefit of this as a POV exercise. Right now, the character exposition is interfering with the POV, I think.

p.3

As above. I'm not feeling Moth at all so far, which feels like a shame to me, because she was really the most interesting thing about the last piece.

p.4

It's feeling more awkward now; Grimes' voice is feeling a bit all over the place. Feels like you're wobbling between characters for him here. Around here, Moth has lost me as a point of interest. Sudden screaming amidst the supposed humble demeanor feels incongruous, and not in a 'this reveals something about the character' sort of way, more in the line editing error sort of way.

p.5a

n/a

p.5b (whole section, incl. the bit on p.6)

Quirk's voice remains singularly unpleasant to me; I don't enjoy him in the slightest. As before, there's something that feels really off to me in the way the text is handling his approach to his trappings, but it's hard to pinpoint the source if only because a number of these sentences are just sort of falling apart, there's some really weird grammar going on here. Which is not something that I'd lose sleep over given the nature of the piece, but it makes me hard to ground myself to evaluate.

p.6

Oooh, nope nope nope nope. I think I hate this character. The beeline from objectifying->assessing disinterest->approach anyway->'witty banter' is really a hard turn-off to me, and it's that last bit that's the clincher. This is bar none one of my least favourite character types of all time (ask me about virulently hating every single thing whedon has ever done in his entire career); the dialogue (and it is an extremely dialogue-driven character type) never, ever rings true to me, in a way that grates hard for me. A full length piece where he's the primary POV is not something I'd be able to assess fairly. YMMV on whether that's a good thing, of course, given my propensity for going all Russian judge in crits. :) 

p.6a

As above. I do not buy this exchange; his lines are coming off profoundly unattractive.

P.6b (Moth 1)

No comment; a bit disappointed that this is such in point form. I liked Moth's bit in the last one.

P.6c (Moth 2)

As above.

Edited by neongrey
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- I really liked the opening pages for Grimes, especially the line "Home is where he buried his wife." It really makes you sympathize with the character.

- The cop with a toothpick in his mouth also seems like a cliche (I suppose it would be too on the nose if he had a lollipop). You might want to also mention it on the passage on cliches of the policemen.

- I really liked the how passage with Grimes, especially having read the previous passage on Moth. There was a lot of suspense on Moth's plans in that section, while still caring for what Grimes was going through. 

- The conversation with the donna seems a little too quick and breezy for my tastes.

- Moth, as always, is awesome . . . but now I really want to know what the spoiler is! 

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Quite frankly, I love these vignettes, Robinski. I think you've really achieved that blend the familiar and the new, especially with the first one. I love the imagery of a futuristic Milan that still has many of the cliches of the present. I don't know what your personal opinion of the film is, but I almost got a Looper vibe from it, which is a compliment in my book. 

Don't really have much else to say, other than I'd really like to continue reading and see where these exercises take me. Kudos!

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Thank you, Hellas. Hem, not sure what to say, that's some high praise in my book. I really enjoyed Looper. Rian Johnson does some fine work, but the hero for me is Shane Carruth. Have you seen Primer? I just love that film. The paired down aesthetic and concentrating on ideas (enforced by budget, of course) is just fantastic. Carruth was an advisor to Johnson on Looper, and his influence in relation to the time travel aspects shines through, imho. How about Upstream Color? That is Carruth's follow-up to Primer, also a fascinating film - unconnected, but with very strong focus on ideas, with none of the Hollywood flash-bang tomfoolery to distract the viewer. Not seen his new one yet.

Anyway, sorry, got off track there in my enthusiasm for Mr. Carruth. I'm glad you enjoyed the characters, and the setting, which still needs a lot of work. I've done very little world-building to date, so that is still to come. I hope it retains your interest. I'm certainly planning to keep submitting suitable vignettes as I go.

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Ugh, sorry I'm so late on this. I'm a walking insomniac disaster this week. 

Anyway.... So I just read the Paxton H. Grimes piece, and I really enjoyed it. My one big disbelief character-wise is that he seems so wordly and yet he never has a worry that Moth would rob him or try something on him. I 100% buy that he has a soft spot for her, but I think a line or two of analysis of Moth's intentions might work a little better. Otherwise, I really enjoyed how the memory of his wife is carried through the piece and I especially like his competence being shown when he analyzes how he's going to deal with di Fantano. Yes, he knows what he's walking into, and while he has his reservations, he also knows good business when he sees it. It's very interesting. I also enjoyed his murmurings about his age. It had that grumpy but wise feeling to it. Moth in this section is good, likable but as I said, still a suspicious character of sorts.

Quirk - I am still deciding whether or not I like him in the "before the drop" section. He is so damnation vain, and I'm rolling my eyes at him (though, this is a sign of your effective showing of his vanity), but then we get to the after-the-drop section, and Quirk has an adversary and suddenly the vanity is combined with some wit and I'm enjoying it immensely. It really balances his character.

Moth - I'm not sure I can really evaluate the Moth section yet. It feels more like a character outline sketch. I like the idea of her taking advantage of another sister's situation. 

Anyway, I agree with the rest of the consensus. I'm really enjoying these, and I think you have something here. 

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23 minutes ago, spieles said:

I'm really enjoying these, and I think you have something here

Agreed! I would buy this, even a series of this, after just a quick breeze through in a bookstore. 

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Thank you, @spieles. No need to stress on the timescale. There's no rush :)

4 hours ago, spieles said:

My one big disbelief character-wise is that he seems so wordly and yet he never has a worry that Moth would rob him or try something on him.

Good point - I will definitely pick that up if the Grimes pov makes it into a story.

4 hours ago, spieles said:

Quirk has an adversary and suddenly the vanity is combined with some wit and I'm enjoying it immensely. It really balances the character.

Excellent, he's very much intended to be a character designed to produce good verbal byplay. Glad you saw it this way.

4 hours ago, spieles said:

I think you have something here

4 hours ago, kaisa said:

Agreed! I would buy this, even a series of this, after just a quick breeze through in a bookstore.

Err, wow, thank you both! This is high praise, and super motivating/encouraging. Onward and upwards!! :)

 

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On 06/08/2016 at 5:35 PM, rdpulfer said:

- The conversation with the donna seems a little too quick and breezy for my tastes.

- Moth, as always, is awesome . . . but now I really want to know what the spoiler is!

Thank you, @rdpulfer, much appreciated. Noted on the conversation. You might have suffer through some of this style of 'breezy' chat, as it's a key facet of Quirk's character. That and @kaisa is insisting upon one such encounter every couple of pages.

Excellent on the Moth reaction. I think the most heartening thing in all these reactions is that there is a fairly good balance between Team Quirk and Team Moth. Considering they are intended to be the central pairing, that is great, however the big test comes when I put them together. I've already written a couple of scenes and some dialogue. As to the spoiler, yes, you will get that in the first story, fairly near the beginning :D

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Thanks for reading, @neongrey, much appreciated.

On 05/08/2016 at 7:42 AM, neongrey said:

Laying it on way too thick; he'd feel more sympathetic with more elegant phrasing overall.

It's a first draft - I'm not overly worried about this at this point.

On 05/08/2016 at 7:42 AM, neongrey said:

I'm not feeling Moth at all so far, which feels like a shame to me, because she was really the most interesting thing about the last piece.

She'll be back. Grimes is an exercise and not intended to be a (major) pov, whereas Moth is. She's very much secondary here, as intended by the exercise that spawned this submission.

On 05/08/2016 at 7:42 AM, neongrey said:

going all Russian judge in crits

They have judges in Russia? Ahem, I am totally un-surprised at your reaction to Quirk. To some extent, that is a success in that he is not meant to be likeable. In your eyes it seems, I have gone way beyond that! All I can say is that perhaps, in a full story, I can redeem some little part of him, from your perspective. We shall see, but I would never be offended if you chose not to read a submission. Also, Moth is a major part of the story, as is there byplay. Enough to offset your disgust with Quirk? Who knows.

Thanks again, NG :)

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4 minutes ago, Robinski said:

She'll be back. Grimes is an exercise and not intended to be a (major) pov, whereas Moth is. She's very much secondary here, as intended by the exercise that spawned this submission.

Indeed, but my point is that this POV drained away most anything I found interesting about her, so. :P

5 minutes ago, Robinski said:

They have judges in Russia?

In judged international sporting events (gymnastics, eg), the judges from Russia are somewhat notoriously... difficult to please. Which, well-- that's not to say I hate everything, but neither am I interested in exchanging validation. :P

9 minutes ago, Robinski said:

hem, I am totally un-surprised at your reaction to Quirk. To some extent, that is a success in that he is not meant to be likeable. In your eyes it seems, I have gone way beyond that! All I can say is that perhaps, in a full story, I can redeem some little part of him, from your perspective.

Ah ha ha ha in this it's not so much about likability, per se. Certainly it's a type of character that a lot of people enjoy and it's certainly a type of voice that's proven successful. And it does come down to the voice, above all else, that puts me off. Which too is a little more pervasive a problem than just action... oh well.

16 minutes ago, Robinski said:

Also, Moth is a major part of the story, as is there byplay. Enough to offset your disgust with Quirk? Who knows.

Possibly, but since it's a voice issue if we're mostly in his head, that'll be trouble for me. See how it goes.

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5 minutes ago, neongrey said:

but neither am I interested in exchanging validation. :P

I prefer to think of it as encouragement. I too like to call a shovel a shovel, but I'm not in your league.

Edited by Robinski
nice morning, if slightly overcast
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13 hours ago, Robinski said:

he is not meant to be likeable

Really? But...I like him!

 

13 hours ago, Robinski said:

That and @kaisa is insisting upon one such encounter every couple of pages.

I like banter. I love banter. I love respectful, flattering banter that is witty and reciprocated and appreciated by both sides. I love it with and without sexual tension. I love it in cafes, trains, McDonald's drive throughs, and on the soccer field. It's just so easy for me to visualize Quark in his fine clothes, bantering to get whatever it is he wants. Bantering with men, women, whatever will get the job done. He's a smooth operator, a respectful yet also manipulative smooth operator, and then he meets Moth and she's too young to be affected by it, and his whole modus operandi is out the window. I dream of the dialogue that happens between them. He tries to pick up someone at a cafe, Moth just steals their wallet. He tries to charm a taxi driver, Moth breaks into the computer system and forces it to take them to their destination. He tries to educate her on human interaction, she just wants him to hurry up

Of course, this may not be at all where @Robinski is going, but still. I WANT TO READ THIS!

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12 minutes ago, kaisa said:
13 hours ago, Robinski said:

he is not meant to be likeable

Really? But...I like him!

Exactly :D

13 minutes ago, kaisa said:

I WANT TO READ THIS!

I'm going as fast as I can!

13 minutes ago, kaisa said:

He tries to educate her on human interaction, she just wants him to hurry up.

You know I'm going to steal this, right? :ph34r:

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