8/2/16-krystalynn03-Roamwald:C17-18 (4983)

[krystalynn03]

For This Update
 

• How was the pacing?
• Did the characters' thoughts and intentions make sense? (They're not always spelled out--does the writing make it clear enough for you to infer what you need to?)
• Any bad blocking?
• Any inconsistencies?
• I also like Mary's ABCD method of feedback, if you prefer
• Or in other words: What worked for you and what didn't?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[Mandamon]

Not too much extra to comment on since the LBLs I sent.  There were a few new things I marked down as I read.  Overall, I missed Roamwald's POV, as I really enjoy it, but technically, I think it works better.

pg 4: "Better I do the talking.”  "Better I put you down.” 
--(G) some repetition, especially between two people talking.

pg 4: "No more laughing—no laughing.”
--(C) Not sure what this is referring to.  Might be WRS.

pg 7: "The memory of the bear flashed through Jennie’s memory"
--(A) Good description in here of how Roamwald's face changes

pg 8: "fist down on the whiskey jug and crushed it into clay pieces"
--(D/A) Would he need to bring his fist down?  Maybe just a finger and it would be even more threatening.

pg 11: "I try to protect the family and this is what I get? I won’t forget this!”
--(A) ugh.  Leon is such a putz. ;-)

pg 12: "what had happened after nobody believed me.”
Papa sighed. “I believed you.”
--(A) Good exchange

pg 13: "But his pupils twitched."
--(C) still not sure about this line.

pg 20: "Jennie’s father had already come out of the woods and was halfway across the empty cornfields."
--(C) seems to be a jump right before this line.  Had to read it a couple times.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Mandamon

[Coop]

Hey krystalynn03, this is my first time reading any part of this novel, so I'm not sure how that influences my review in one way or another. My overall reaction to these chapters was that the storytelling and writing were fine and they worked, but they didn't give me much more than that. I wasn't getting pulled into the story. The sequence of events and the interactions between the characters seemed straightforward and followed a predictable (or common) sort of path. That is, the exchange with Uncle Leon felt very similar to things in plenty other books and movies (his character was quite stock, I thought); the conversation between Jennie and Mama also followed an expected course.

I like the overall premise of the book. There are obvious similarities to The BFG, which was my favorite book for a time as a child. So I would like to see how you can bring fresh ideas to the theme.

I thought that Jennie and Roamwald's reaction to being shot at by an unseen assailant was unrealistic. I would expect them to be in panic mode, darting for cover, and looking around for the shooter, rather than spending time talking about the wound and how much it hurt. I also wondered why Roamwald didn't just pick up Leon earlier, instead of standing around and allowing him to get off another shot.

Roamwald is a perfect name for his character!

Again, I like the premise and can tell you have the skills to write a solid story, I'd just like to see a fresher take on these characters and these types of situations, which will get me more interested and turning the pages.

[krystalynn03]

On 8/4/2016 at 7:05 AM, Mandamon said:

Not too much extra to comment on since the LBLs I sent.  There were a few new things I marked down as I read.  Overall, I missed Roamwald's POV, as I really enjoy it, but technically, I think it works better.

Hey @Mandamon, thanks for giving this a double dose--doing an alpha look and a more beta look with LBL's. I do miss aspects of Roamwald's POV, too, because overall, he's a much more complicated person than a ten year old farm girl, but I promise there's plenty of him in the subsequent books. If I could make @Robinski's suggestion to have the cake and eat it too work, I would. It just keeps taking the reader's focus away from things that keep the plot moving.

Your line by lines are fabulous and I will fix those weird spots--really glad you caught the awkward visual jump with Will crossing the field. That sounded weird even to me, but I thought maybe it worked, but now I'm sure it doesn't and will fix--along with the other stuff you mentioned.

Thanks for giving me so much useful feedback!

[krystalynn03]

21 hours ago, Coop said:

Hey krystalynn03, this is my first time reading any part of this novel, so I'm not sure how that influences my review in one way or another.

I think it does influence it a lot, actually. A lot of the difficulties you expressed with the narrative I think would have sated by material from the chapters previous. This arc of chapters has always been the hardest for me because it's the point in the book where Jennie loses a lot of agency as things blow up out of her control and there really isn't a lot of characterization happening since I've done that already.

All of the above given, that doesn't mean I haven't been mulling over your comments carefully. Regardless of the information you lack that led the story to where it is, your perspective on the content itself is still completely valid and useful, but I have sift it with the knowledge that your opinion might have been rather different with more schema to the story.

I agree that Roamwald could be more panicked and that in the normal situation most people would be. But that's not the kind of person he is--which is a big plot point. You wanted nuance--something less 'stock' if you will, and I think the place where I gave it is the place that confused you or read unreal to you because you lacked the background knowledge to see it. Roamwald knew he shouldn't bring Jennie back; he knew that the Humans would freak out and the reason he's not panicking is because he saw this coming. It's the price he's paying for doing the right thing, and running away or freaking out on his part will only make it worse. No one else has ever read that part as a hard to believe so I'm going to guess that missing what happened before is why it's bothering you.

On the other hand, I do think I could revise it to make Jennie point out the things you're saying and 'hang a lampshade on it' as they say on the podcast or at least amp up Roamwald's reaction. I think you're completely right that the tone of it is still off and I have still have work to do.

Also, I think you're pretty spot on in your summation of Leon as well. I've worried over that many, many times before and nobody's called me out on it even though I thought it was a problem. I like the way you think. I've been trying to make his character have some more texture without letting it take over the plot (he's not in any subsequent books), but I haven't hit on it just yet. To some degree, I'm not sure I can make him 'original' because the whole plot of this book is meant to be the simplest and 'the youngest' and to make someone jaded requires a more adult understanding of the world. Still, it feels good to hear somebody agree with me that it's a weak point and know that it's not just in my head. I'm open to ideas. I know it's weak.

There are multiple reasons Roamwald doesn't pick up Leon sooner before the shot. First, he's got Jennie in his hands. Second, he's trying to show respect and talk sensibly to make a good impression and grabbing at anyone is a quick way to say the conversation is over. By the time Jennie warns Roamwald Leon is drunk, it's too late. Third, Roamwald's got manners--which is a bigger deal than it seems.

As far as Mama goes, maybe it seems expected because you didn't see the character actions before? The fact that her parents are taking this well is a point of contrast to earlier behavior in the books, so again, I'm not disagreeing with you at all--just trying to muddle through how I should use your feedback.

Apologies for writing a reply that's longer than your comment! I just want you to know that I read and reread it carefully and am putting thought into it and how to use it. Thank you for your time both reading it and in forming honest and constructive feedback!

Thanks, Coop!

[rdpulfer]

So glad to be reading this again!

- I like Roamwald's reaction to being shot.

- I do feel there's a lack of agency on Roamwald's part. Is there nothing he can do to protect himself from Leon? Is there anything he can pick up to shield himself, likes trees or rocks? I know this seems a bit nitpicky, but it feels like he should be once bitten twice shy at this point.

- The pacing definitely picks up once Roamwald picks up Leon, and that part probably should come sooner.

- The last line about his pupils twitched does add a subtle amount of suspense.

- It's been a while since I've read this, so I can't say I remember the original section, but I do think this is a very suspenseful and eventful section. I definitely like this project a lot. 

 

[spieles]

Chapter 17

I agree with RDPulfer that Roamwald's reaction to being shot is good, but then I think you run into trouble when we get to Jennie facing off against her uncle and trying to protect Roamwald....

The "lens" on the scene feels very distant instead of being wonderfully scary and close-up. Her uncle fumbling with the rifle actually lowers the tension - because I think the reader needs extra description to feel how out of control he is in this scene.  For example, when Jennie is set down and runs toward her uncle, I'd like to see her take in the details of his appearance, maybe even catch a hint of drink on his breath as the winter breeze stings her face. I want her to look at the gun and realize what could really happen - and have the reader be inside her head as that disbelief and fear manifest.

I'm not sure that her father's reaction to the scene is completely accurate here. His daughter is in the hands of a giant and yes, his brother is a drunk with a gun, but I think it would make almost more sense for her father to seize the gun from his brother and threaten Roamwald like nobody's business. 

“Roamwald, Uncle Leon is not a bear!” This also doesn't seem like the right response. Her uncle knows that the giant is not a bear - but he does think that Roamwald is a snatcher - and that is a real monster to be terrified of.

Yeah, and then the tension drops significantly and rather unrealistically when she does introductions between Roamwald and her father. We're missing some key emotional transitions here. You've spent a lot of time in the story building up the awfulness of REAL snatchers, and it's like that threat dissolves here.  I feel like her father should be threatening to put bullets in each of Roamwald's eyes and Jennie should be throwing herself in front of him saying HE WAS TRYING TO SAVE AND HE'S NOT A SNATCHER AND STOP.

Then we need a moment where her father looks at Roamwald and finally sees what Jenny sees: this giant is bleeding and yet gently shielding his daughter and isn't snatching anyone. He would stuttering with all these realizations... something like "Jenny said that she was saved but--" Then he finally lowers his gun.

I think that even as he took this all in, he'd still have disbelief and fear. He might try to negotiate with Roamwald to let Jenny out of his grip, but then he'd agree not to shoot Roamwald, etc. 

I think once the father has established his trust with Roamwald the chapter then flows better.

Chapter 18

So there's too many re-explanation of the previous chapter. Better to have the kids playing hide and seek and then have her mom demand to know where the fish came from -- just as her father comes striding back. Otherwise, I feel like the story really slows down in this section. 

I'm very confused about the implication of what's happening with the end of the chapter:

"The forms of several men darted out from the shadows of the forest, followed moments later by Roamwald’s head and shoulders as he crawled out of the tree line after them"

Is Roamwald hiding from the men?

Also, I think you might want to describe her father's demeanor a bit more as he comes back. After hearing from her daughter that she found this lovely giant, her mother is probably expecting the worse, but she trusts her husband, so I'd like a little more of that body language.

Anyway, I think you have all the elements here - they just need those transitions to really suck in the reader.

[Robinski]

Detailed comments below, but overall, I like this version. I like the decision to remain in Jennie’s POV, because there is still a strong sense of Roamwald’s pain and his decisions / conflicts coming through, I think. I thought that pacing was fine.

Nice job.

<R>

---------------------------------------------

“but to the left was were Swift Creek and the clearing where her family’s traps were set”

“Fearfully, Jennie fearfully watched her uncle fumbling” – sorry, but split infinitives are like fingernails down a blackboard to me. I realise that it’s a new age, and everyone can do what they like as far a grammar goes, but I'm old (fashioned) that way.

“But Leon lifted something, too—his rifle.” – Bit melodramatic for my taste, whereas “but whether from Roamwald’s lift or from Leon’s wobbling aim, Jennie was in the line of its fire.” – for me, is under dramatic. I think in the previous version(s?) there was no warning about the bullet striking Jennie. I think that approach is way more effective.

“She waited for pain, but there was no intense burning sensation in her back.” – How would she know what it felt like to be shot? Is this what it feels like to be shot?

“Thumbs peeled back and Jennie saw Roamwald’s panicked and worried face looking down at her” – No need for both, I think. Also, how come two thumbs, I thought he had her in one hand?

“grabbing hold of the brass button to push pull(?) herself up”

“Leon swung chaotically as the two both scrambled back” – If you’re already talking about ‘two’ – ‘both’ is redundant at best.

“Jennie screeched... Papa yelled... Jennie cried... Jennie warned (meh)... Jennie screamed...” You’re really hammering the said bookisms here – ‘warned’ is the most egregious for me. It all gets a bit much, (Robinski lamented). Not that I would use 'said', but you might drop a tag or two.

“There’s no blood,” she said, peeling her father’s hand away and inspecting the wound.” – Really? I'm surprised, it sounded like quite a thwack, and with a big old branch?

“Roamwald pitched the rifle, and it made crashing noises as it hit branches and landed somewhere in the thick of the forest. Then the Westermann brought his fist down on the whiskey jug and crushed it into clay pieces.” – This is all good stuff. I'm liking this version. There seems way more action, tension and confrontation and, although we’re not in Roamwald’s pov, we have a good sense of his emotions and his pain.

“I’ll tear into anything in my path like one!” – I'm disbelieving that Leon can string this sentence together in his current state – it’s fairly complex phrasing.

“And I’m the president of the Commonwealth!” – This line is supposed to be on ironic reply to a much earlier Roamwald line, I think, but it’s too far away now to work, I think.

“Go on home,” Will said. “I’ll take care of things.” – Since we’re in Jennie’s POV, I feel this should be ‘Papa’.

“But as Jennie stood to go crawl into bed, a tree in the Wildwood fell. Alarmed birds cawed and burst into the sky. The forms of several men darted out from the shadows of the forest, followed moments later by Roamwald’s head and shoulders as he crawled out of the tree line after them.” – Personally, I think the end of the chapter is way for portentous if you cut the last line.

[Coop]

On 8/7/2016 at 10:32 AM, krystalynn03 said:

I think it does influence it a lot, actually. A lot of the difficulties you expressed with the narrative I think would have sated by material from the chapters previous.

I'm glad you see it this way, krystalynn. I'm always nervous about offering a critique after missing so much of a book, so I'm glad you recognize the need to couch my comments as coming from someone who is late to the party.

[krystalynn03]

1 minute ago, Coop said:

I'm glad you see it this way, krystalynn. I'm always nervous about offering a critique after missing so much of a book, so I'm glad you recognize the need to couch my comments as coming from someone who is late to the party.

Your comments are still useful! Thank you for taking time to read and comment, really! New perspectives push me to look at things in a new light or discover assumptions I was making in text or help me in any other myriad of ways. I hope you feel I valued you comments and perspectives, even if there were a few things I think you might have seen differently if you'd read what happened before! I'm glad you're part of our community now!