Batemenace

Ranette was an Idiot (Sort of)

33 posts in this topic

Okay, I’m not just referring specifically to Ranette, although since Sanderson set her up as someone who researches ways to better kill allomancers, and as one herself, she certainly has less of an excuse.

In Alloy of Law, Ranette provided Wax with specialized “Hazekiller” rounds, as well as a gun specifically designed to incorporate them in addition to conventional rounds. For Coinshots, she added a ceramic tip resistant to Pushes or Pulls. For Tineyes she essentially made a noisy bullet. For Thugs, she went all out with her genius and simply added more powder to conventional rounds, essentially creating a +P magnum round.   

I can live with her solutions to deal with coinshots and tineyes, but her solution to thugs is atrocious considering the fact that all you would need to do is craft a slug or buckshot out of slightly off pewter. One of the biggest dangers to allomancers is trying to burn metal that isn’t quite up to allomantic standards. Try burning steel with a bit too much or a bit too little carbon and you can get sick. Too much silver in your electrum? You might die.

Thugs don’t have bullet proof skin, one of the dangers Thugs face is continuing the fight too long because they don’t recognize how wounded they are or how much blood they’ve lost. Pump some pewter in them with a bit too much lead in i and you’ve got a thug about to drop mid flair because he just burned poison. There are various WOB out there confirming allomancers can burn metals in their body that they haven’t eaten through the mouth. In fact, for years Vin was surviving off of the built up metals collecting in her bloodstream. Allomancers also don’t seem to be able to tell a metal is slightly off until they’ve burned it, a hit pewter burner would have to immediately stop burning the second they were hit with an bad pewter round which would be difficult given that 1. Pewter burners instinctively burn when they’ve been injured, even when unconscious, and 2. They wouldn’t even recognize the off-brand pewter until it’s too late, especially in the heat of battle.

This technique would be especially useful against a double gold Bloodmaker like Miles. As Brandon has explained, compounding has less to do with one metallic art directly fueling the other than a general short circuiting of the spiritweb. By burning a filled metalmind with allomancy, you aren’t actually burning or tapping the attribute you stored inside, instead you’re tricking allomancy into thinking that the metal you’re burning is spirit-coded to whatever attribute the feruchemical attribute identifies itself as. The power you’re getting out of it isn’t the same power that you put in. It’s like using your debit card but tricking the merchant into using the card number to someone else’s card.

Why is this important?

A double gold Bloodmaker burning a gold metalmind (such as when in the actual act of compounding) will automatically start burning any off-gold buckshot introduced into their system first. If the Bloodmaker is burning gold, he won’t be unable to burn any feruchemically charged gold until he either expels or burns up the non-metal mind gold because metalminds are invested and therefore slightly harder to metabolize, as can be inferred here.

KAYMYTH

OK, so in the signing line, I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both invested and uninvested metals in both their stomach and piercings.

BRANDON SANDERSON

1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off. (I bet that seeing that happen would look downright weird.) 2) The noninvested metals go before the invested ones. He said that because invested metals are harder to effect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds. 3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.

     

Could the Bloodmaker simply tap his metalmind to heal? Sure, but he wouldn’t be able to compound until he extracted the faulty gold, and there’s a chance that the bloodmaker’s body might instinctively try to clear the wounds of debris by metabolizing the bad gold due to the bloodmaker’s personal identity including the allomantic ability to burn gold. Is it a perfect strategy? No, but it would allow you to more quickly wear down a double gold twinborn like Miles and give him plenty of grief.

This concept isn't just for bloodmakers and thugs, you could apply this to a number of any other allomantically inclined targets. widespread birdshot might not pack a punch, but it will embed itself below the skin, and is hard to dodge.

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Burning a metal inside your body but not in your stomach takes practice. So far we've seen nobody do that. So you'd have to aim your shots very precisely... and if the bullet can pierce to the stomach, you're much better off with schrapnel bullets instead of unnecessarily complicating the whole thing with allomantic metals.

Since aluminium blocks healing, the best solution would be simply aluminium or if you can't afford it, just aluminium coated shrapnels. Even Gold Compounders would fall prey to aluminium scattered around in their brain since they can't heal it.

BTW, Miles simply tapped his metalminds, he didn't Compound during fights, so your tactic wouldn't be effective even if you managed to execute it.

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12 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Burning a metal inside your body but not in your stomach takes practice. So far we've seen nobody do that. So you'd have to aim your shots very precisely... and if the bullet can pierce to the stomach, you're much better off with schrapnel bullets instead of unnecessarily complicating the whole thing with allomantic metals.

Since aluminium blocks healing, the best solution would be simply aluminium or if you can't afford it, just aluminium coated shrapnels. Even Gold Compounders would fall prey to aluminium scattered around in their brain since they can't heal it.

BTW, Miles simply tapped his metalminds, he didn't Compound during fights, so your tactic wouldn't be effective even if you managed to execute it.

I'm not so sure about the stomach thing. Vin was doing it for years without really comprehending what she was doing exactly or how. None of the metals she was burning were in her stomach, based on how she would have to store up for weeks at a time to do a single weak soothing or rioting.

 

And yeah, Miles would absolutely be tapping instead of compounding, my thought was you could wear Miles down over a drawn out fight, like over a day or so. Healing, even through compounding, can be very costly. and metalminds can only hold so much at a time. I'm not certain that his body would be able to automatically dispel any gold chunks because his body might think "oh, this is gold, I can just burn this instead of trying to manipulate tissue, muscle, and bone to force it out". 

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We have confirmation that Vin was extremely special and that her ability with using metals was a lot above that of other Mistborn, which was the reason why she was able to gain such prowess with Allomancy in such a short time.
There was thread where they talked about this, but I can't find it.

P.S.
This thread would be better in the Mistborn forum.

Edited by kenod
grammar
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One big question would be whether Mistings (as opposed to Mistborn) can even try to burn anything other than the correct alloy or pure metal. There was a thread about that, and I'm personally of the opinion that a Thug simply couldn't burn an alloy that was off, unlike a Mistborn. 

jW

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5 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

One big question would be whether Mistings (as opposed to Mistborn) can even try to burn anything other than the correct alloy or pure metal. There was a thread about that, and I'm personally of the opinion that a Thug simply couldn't burn an alloy that was off, unlike a Mistborn. 

jW

I created that thread. I expess my idea about Misting's Allomancy to be a safe version of Allomancy. Where they can't sense at all other metals or really bad composition of their own metal.

I have also a WoP (a reply of Peter) but I can't take it as canon.

Link to the topic

Edited by Yata
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On 7/31/2016 at 7:29 AM, Batemenace said:

I'm not so sure about the stomach thing. Vin was doing it for years without really comprehending what she was doing exactly or how. None of the metals she was burning were in her stomach, based on how she would have to store up for weeks at a time to do a single weak soothing or rioting.

 

And yeah, Miles would absolutely be tapping instead of compounding, my thought was you could wear Miles down over a drawn out fight, like over a day or so. Healing, even through compounding, can be very costly. and metalminds can only hold so much at a time. I'm not certain that his body would be able to automatically dispel any gold chunks because his body might think "oh, this is gold, I can just burn this instead of trying to manipulate tissue, muscle, and bone to force it out". 

Vin was burning the trace metals she would ingest when eating from metal plates, with metal forks and knives, and metal cups. So it was still in her stomach, not her blood stream. Basically it is like getting lead poisoning from eating from old style silverware, but in her case it was beneficial. 

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1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

Vin was burning the trace metals she would ingest when eating from metal plates, with metal forks and knives, and metal cups. So it was still in her stomach, not her blood stream. Basically it is like getting lead poisoning from eating from old style silverware, but in her case it was beneficial.

Uhh, lead is absorbed into the body, including making it into the bloodstream. I'm not aware of any metal that would remain in the stomach. 

The implication is Vin was burning metal stored in her body, not just her stomach. Considering how accurate Brandon has been with science I doubt he's just hand-waving this one. 

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2 minutes ago, Argel said:

Uhh, lead is absorbed into the body, including making it into the bloodstream. I'm not aware of any metal that would remain in the stomach. 

The implication is Vin was burning metal stored in her body, not just her stomach. Considering how accurate Brandon has been with science I doubt he's just hand-waving this one. 

So what I recalled was right and wrong at the same time, please see the quote below:

Mistborn page 47

Kelsier nodded. "Trace minerals in the water can be burned, if just for a tiny bit of power. That's one of the reasons the Lord Ruler built his city here - lots of metals in the ground."

So she drank the water, and burned the minerals in the water. So still in the stomach. Just wasn't the plates, forks, cups that I recalled. 

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Also, I think, if the shrapnel was distributed over the body, each piece might feel, to the Allomancer, as a distinct source of Allomancy. Which means, once the trick is known, an Allomancer would only burn the "safe" source(s) that they have ingested and would ignore the "false" sources. I wonder if this is possible or if an Allomancer would simply feel all pewter, regardless of location and purity, as one "source".

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22 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

So what I recalled was right and wrong at the same time, please see the quote below:

Mistborn page 47

Kelsier nodded. "Trace minerals in the water can be burned, if just for a tiny bit of power. That's one of the reasons the Lord Ruler built his city here - lots of metals in the ground."

So she drank the water, and burned the minerals in the water. So still in the stomach. Just wasn't the plates, forks, cups that I recalled. 

Water remains in the stomach for less than two hours after you drink it, it starts getting absorbed through the lining and is quickly distributed through the blood and tissue. Even if the trace metals weren't absorbed through the lining (if they really are "trace" they would be absorbed, this is basically how fast acting medication and alcohol works) they would pass through the system and exit long before Vin would have time to store them up over the course of days or weeks, meaning that the only way she is burning those metals is by building them up in her body outside of the digestive tract, just like what happens to regular people when they eat heavy metals. 

Additionally, Leechers have the ability to burn away allomantically viable piercings on their target's body, something they wouldn't be able to do if the target allomancer in question wouldn't be able to metabolize the piercing on their own due to the fact that the leecher isn't burning the metals away himself, he's forcing the target to do it for him, otherwise a leecher would only be able to leech another allomancer's chromium deposit.

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19 minutes ago, Batemenace said:

Water remains in the stomach for less than two hours after you drink it, it starts getting absorbed through the lining and is quickly distributed through the blood and tissue. Even if the trace metals weren't absorbed through the lining (if they really are "trace" they would be absorbed, this is basically how fast acting medication and alcohol works) they would pass through the system and exit long before Vin would have time to store them up over the course of days or weeks, meaning that the only way she is burning those metals is by building them up in her body outside of the digestive tract, just like what happens to regular people when they eat heavy metals. 

Additionally, Leechers have the ability to burn away allomantically viable piercings on their target's body, something they wouldn't be able to do if the target allomancer in question wouldn't be able to metabolize the piercing on their own due to the fact that the leecher isn't burning the metals away himself, he's forcing the target to do it for him, otherwise a leecher would only be able to leech another allomancer's chromium deposit.

Can I ask where you got the indication that she had been saving up her "luck" for a week? I checked and could not locate it, so I want to make sure I am not missing anything. I was under the impression that she would eat or drink that day, and notice she had some luck. She had to be careful how much she used because it ran out so quickly and there was so little, but I never saw any indication that she gathered it over days to the small amount she had. So unless I am missing something, she could have regular drinks of water or food (or regular for someone in her situation), and would have bits of luck to use here and there. For instance when she first mentions her luck, the job occurs shortly after, so she would have time to use it. 

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I don't think it was weeks, but I think remember reading somewhere that she could store it up over a couple days. It might have been in the annotations or time wasters guide. However, I might be crazy and she can't store it up, but I find it hard to believe Vin wouldn't have been able to make the connection between eating a meal and restoration of her luck. She would have been eating maybe one meal a day most of the time (if even that, they also would have been light meals and passed from her stomach within a few hours) and she would certainly have gone a couple days without eating on a regular basis. I'm sure she would have noticed her lack of luck during those days, and made the connection, unless she had maintained a small store of luck from one day to the next (She was absolutely obsessed with food and began hoarding it once she found herself in Kelsier's crew at first, she would have made the connection). Brass, being an alloy and necessary for soothing and her default use of luck, would only be found when using cutlery or other utensils as it wouldn't have been found in the groundwater so she wouldn't have had access to it on days she only managed to drink some water. 

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23 hours ago, Batemenace said:

I don't think it was weeks, but I think remember reading somewhere that she could store it up over a couple days. It might have been in the annotations or time wasters guide. However, I might be crazy and she can't store it up, but I find it hard to believe Vin wouldn't have been able to make the connection between eating a meal and restoration of her luck. She would have been eating maybe one meal a day most of the time (if even that, they also would have been light meals and passed from her stomach within a few hours) and she would certainly have gone a couple days without eating on a regular basis. I'm sure she would have noticed her lack of luck during those days, and made the connection, unless she had maintained a small store of luck from one day to the next (She was absolutely obsessed with food and began hoarding it once she found herself in Kelsier's crew at first, she would have made the connection). Brass, being an alloy and necessary for soothing and her default use of luck, would only be found when using cutlery or other utensils as it wouldn't have been found in the groundwater so she wouldn't have had access to it on days she only managed to drink some water. 

Mistborn page 41

She couldn't afford to expend Luck keeping the men's hands off of her. She'd barely had time to regenerate what she'd used a few days before, during the meeting with the obligator.

 

So this implies to me that she assumes the luck comes back to her on its own. When attacked by Camon, she states how her luck failed her. This says to me that although she knows she has a very small amount of which to draw upon, she does not know where it comes from, or how it replenishes. Also we do not know how often she eats and or drinks, nor the "quality". Could be some days she has more "luck" than others due to what she ate that day. I do not claim to know how quickly heavy metals absorb into the body (I checked and could not find any info other than if you eat large quantities, you get poisoned and you die), as well as we do not know how high the level of trace metals are in the water and food in luthadel. The people of northern scadrial were genetically modified to survive the harsh environment the Lord Ruler created. Although ingesting flakes of metal and not burning them could lead to toxicity, perhaps the heartiness extends to being able to drink and eat from food and water with higher contents of metals than we can. There is a lot of conjecture to this. The only concrete information we have in book is Kelsier's statement on where she could be getting her "luck" from. Now to be clear, I am not saying this to state a misting or mistborn could not potentially burn an allomantically correct shrapnel shot into his or her body. It would be very traumatic, and damaging, as well as I believe the misting or mistborn would have to consciously chose that source instead of automatically burning it by accident. All I wrote prior was in response to the assumption that Vin was burning metals for her "luck" that were not in her stomach. When in the books it states it was. 

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2 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Mistborn page 41

She couldn't afford to expend Luck keeping the men's hands off of her. She'd barely had time to regenerate what she'd used a few days before, during the meeting with the obligator.

 

I absolutely agree with you, she has no idea where it's coming from and that she assumes it regenerates over time on its own (with no mention of any ebbs or flows, something that she certainly would be aware of if she lost all her luck 4 to 5 hours after eating). What that quote says to me is that the build up took several days, and she's experienced enough in managing her luck she plans ahead on when to use it and when not to (meaning that she rations it out for future use, for more than just a few hours into the future) . A quick peek on google reveals the following.

50% of stomach contents emptied 2.5 to 3 hours
Total emptying of the stomach 4 to 5 hours
50% emptying of the small intestine 2.5 to 3 hours
Transit through the colon 30 to 40 hours

 This might account for why she could stock up over the course of a couple days, but be unable to keep storing for more than that, after a couple of days all the trace metals would have been voided along with everything else. The way I look at it is that she's definitely burning metals outside of her stomach prior to Kelsier, which would make the burning of metals in non-stomach body areas viable.

P.S. Thanks for that quote, I was specifically looking for it yesterday but couldn't find it.

Edited by Batemenace
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Ok so first of all not even Vin or Elend ever burned metal outside their body (to my knowledge) and they were one of the best trained mistborn/allomancer who probably ever lived, and someone who was a first gen mistborn who would have allomancy that would be, at base, much more powerful than that of any other allomancer/mitsing/mistborn. It may be possible but i highly doubt that there is anyone alive in era 2 mistborn who can. (after reading the post currently above this i see pre-Kelsier Vin brought up as potentially burning things outside of her stomach prior and I dont think that was the case as most water has trace minerals and it also states in book that much of the utensils and cups used to eat were made of either copper or pewter but im not sure which and i dont have the book on hand. So it is much more likely that she was burning those traces when they reached her stomach.)

Second of all, you mention that Ranette is trying to develop ways to kill mistings easier while being a misting herself. May I remind you that many of the opponents faced in the first series were mistings and sometimes (but more rarely) were even full fledged mistborn! If they had a weapon that would allow them to reach their goal of defeating their opponent, even if that meant there was a weapon that would make them easier to kill in turn, they would probably want that weapon. Also, this is a rather poorly though out point as many of the criminals we see Wax and Wayne track are mistings or twinborn, so it would be almost necessary to have weapons that can make taking out a potentially hostile misting out. 

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17 hours ago, Batemenace said:

I absolutely agree with you, she has no idea where it's coming from and that she assumes it regenerates over time on its own (with no mention of any ebbs or flows, something that she certainly would be aware of if she lost all her luck 4 to 5 hours after eating). What that quote says to me is that the build up took several days, and she's experienced enough in managing her luck she plans ahead on when to use it and when not to (meaning that she rations it out for future use, for more than just a few hours into the future) . A quick peek on google reveals the following.

50% of stomach contents emptied 2.5 to 3 hours
Total emptying of the stomach 4 to 5 hours
50% emptying of the small intestine 2.5 to 3 hours
Transit through the colon 30 to 40 hours

 This might account for why she could stock up over the course of a couple days, but be unable to keep storing for more than that, after a couple of days all the trace metals would have been voided along with everything else. The way I look at it is that she's definitely burning metals outside of her stomach prior to Kelsier, which would make the burning of metals in non-stomach body areas viable.

P.S. Thanks for that quote, I was specifically looking for it yesterday but couldn't find it.

Glad to help with the quote, but can I ask where you are getting your information on how quickly heavy metals metabolize in the human body? I tried searching and I only find information pertaining to build up and toxicity. If you are gauging the absorption rate based on water itself, I think that may be faulty. Unless you have a background in biochemistry and could back it up with science. Not saying you are wrong, but I would like some more sources, or explanation as my own research has not yielded these numbers specifically in regards to heavy metals which is what we are discussing. It looks like you are judging the absorption rates on the water or food itself, and I am not sure that is how the absorption of the heavy metals function. Could you provide references?

And again, I am sorry but it is a big assumption that she is building it up over days when we have no clear information stating that is the case. Additionally Vin was more worried about survival to the next day. Figuring out food is the source of your "luck" when it is so small and can be used so rarely requires time and experimentation. If food is rare, you would be focusing more on it to eat and abate hunger than going "hmmm i took a bite, do i feel lucky yet? Hmm I took three bites, do I feel lucky yet and if so how much?" While it is more like, "food! eat!, grab what I can and squirrel it away, hoping no one else saw!". Experimentation is when you are beyond the level of survival. 

Edited by Pathfinder
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Most medicines are absorbed into the body faster than that. But even with the 4 to 5 hours number, that would suggest she would never have any luck after sleeping, assuming she slept for 6 or more hours. You would think she might make the connection eventually. If it can build up in her system then it would much harder to figure out.

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2 minutes ago, Argel said:

Most medicines are absorbed into the body faster than that. But even with the 4 to 5 hours number, that would suggest she would never have any luck after sleeping, assuming she slept for 6 or more hours. You would think she might make the connection eventually. If it can build up in her system then it would much harder to figure out.

But most medicines are designed for that exact reason. For fast absorption. Basically what I am asking for is a "smoking gun". A lot of articles speak of what can happen to you when you drink water, or food with high levels of what they refer to as heavy metals (such as cadmium build up in the kidneys causing them to shut down), but I do not see a mention saying "if you take in water or food rich in heavy metals that are poisonous to you, it takes X amount of time for your body to absorb it and then Y amount of time based on Z amount of heavy metal concentration before you die". Right now we are basing the absorption rate of the water itself for how fast the body metabolizes it, and I am unsure if that is how it works/you determine the rate of absorption of the metals themselves. It may very be exactly the way you determine it. I personally do not know and cannot find evidence that says it does or does not. That is why I asked if you had a scientific background which is why you brought it up, or did you google that information, which is what I am currently doing. As that fact is what hinges on the accuracy of Kelsier's testimony in the books, I was curious the sources and the explanation behind it. Yes we take dietary supplements for iron, and zinc, and so on, but those are designed with absorption in mind. They are made with the intention of them being metabolized and not hanging around in the gut. 

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Quote

 

“First,” Kelsier said, “remember to burn away any unused metals you have inside of you at the end of the night. Some of the metals we use can be poisonous if digested; it’s best not to sleep with them in your stomach.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Mistborn Trilogy (Kindle Locations 2616-2617). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

Metals taken in the morning would surely be absorbed into the system by nightfall (to some degree). Much sooner, especially if taken on an empty stomach. Brandon is either glossing over the details or Kelsier does not fully understand. It's also not clear to me if "stomach" means the actual organ or is being used more  loosely to refer to the digestive system, which would imo make more sense.

Most heavy metals build up over time, so it will be harder to find the absorption rates we are looking for. It's also the intestines that do the absorbing. 

My gut (pun indented) feeling is Brandon is glossing over the details here.

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13 minutes ago, Argel said:

My gut (pun indented) feeling is Brandon is glossing over the details here.

I would agree with this sentiment. Mistborn era 1 was written quite some time ago when Brandon was a (relatively) new author and probably lacked the resources to have a team of alpha readers/editors/assistants who now try and catch hand-wavy stuff like this. While there are some easy outs for him here (e.g. Scadrial humans are not earth era equivalent and were designed by Ruin and Preservation to be able to handle heavy metals at much higher concentrations) I would go with Argel on this one and assume it was just a small gloss-over. 

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It should also be noted that Kell is neither biologist, toxologist, or doctor. He's explaining it to Vin in a way that makes sense, and is probably how he understands it. In this area he's unreliable as it isn't something he really has a reason to know. Now, if it had been Sazed talking...

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Also, Brandon has been really big on scientific accuracy, but not so much on the medical side.  For example, he will go to extra lengths to try and address why there is no red-shift for a speed bubble, the locked rotation of a planet, etc. but basically just hand-waves "it's magic" when it comes to how someone can heal and keep all their memories after their head is blown off or how an Inquisitor can function with spikes through it's brains. The more something is Science/Physics the more he seems to care, and the less so for biology and medical stuff (not saying he does not care about those, but he clearly cares about one more than the other).  To be fair, we probably do not want to read too many details about the digestive process, and that would change the tone of the books (crude jokes...).  Also, we know for Mistborn he wants to go Sci-Fi, so paying more attention to physics makes sense.

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Well, there is always the handy handwave of "Scadrians are naturally adapted to eating metals". Physics are harder to handwave, hence the whole thing with redshift.

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I was finally able to ask Brandon about this at the signing last night. I wasn't recording so I'm having to paraphrase here, but this is how it went.

 

 

Me: So, which happened first, Nightblood showing up on Roshar, or the first successful production of working half shards?

Brandon: Umm... [scrunches up his face and chews on a pen for bit]

Me: Okay, what I was getting at was whether or not they were reverse engineered from Nightblood.

Brandon: No, Half-Shards were not reverse engineered from Nightblood, they're something else.

 

Me: Okay, so, when allomancers talk about burning metals, that they're metabolizing metals, but you have allomancers using metals long after they would have passed from the stomach, so does it have to be in the digestive sys-

Brandon: It doesn't have to be in the stomach, it can be anywhere in the body. If you stabbed an allomancer with an allomantic metal, they could burn it if they're able to.

Me: Okay, that lead leads me to the second part of my question, Ranette, Ranette made anti-thug rounds, right?

Brandon: Right.

Me: They're basically just magnum rounds, hotter loads, right?

Brandon: Yeah.

Me: Well, wouldn't it be more effective to just make loads where the bullets or buckshot are made of pewter that's just slightly off, you know, enough to make you sick if you burn it? If they kept burning pewter it would take them out of the fight.

Brandon: Hmm... I think that a thug would be able to tell which metal is which.

Me: I thought they wouldn't be able to choose which bits of the same type of metal they burn.

Brandon: I think that they woul- well, wait. But you do occasionally run across a bad metal that messes you up, so you might be right. So, Maybe? [thinks for a bit] It's plausible. I'd need to think about it. It's 1 in the morning and I don't want to commit to something like this, so I'm going to have to RAFO you for right now.

[A few moments later as my wife and I are grabbing our stuff from the seats and heading out of the store]

Brandon: [Pointing at me] Hey, you were right!

Me: Huh?

Brandon: I was thinking about it, it would take the thug out of the fight. They'd have to stop burning or else get sick.

Me: Cool

 

So I was wrong about Nightblood and the Half-Shards, but it looks like I was correct about the Ranette thing. It also seems to answer the question about whether or not mistings can get sick from off-metals.  

Edited by Batemenace
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