Jump to content

Type I and Type IV


Oudeis

Recommended Posts

This seems pretty obvious, so I'm sure it's been pointed out before and I'm simply behind the curve. The Returned eat Breath. Nightblood eats Breath. These seem to be remarkably similar.

 

It takes a Returned an entire week to devour a single Breath... I wonder, if anyone were to check, might it be possible that some of that black smoke stuff is emitted by the Returned? Just very, very slowly, like a few molecules a second?

 

I wonder... so Type II and Type III Awakened objects, the Lifeless and ... um, Awakened things like ropes, do not consume Breath, they merely use it. It provides rigidity, motion, and the capacity to follow a single, unchanging Command.

 

What the other Types have... is sentience. So... the ability to change your mind, to think for yourself, this appears to be a trait that doesn't simply use Breath, but consumes it...

 

Sidebar, possibly worthy of it's own thread in either Cosmere theories or Stormlight Archives... is it Innate Investiture that Shardblades attack? Is there a difference between Innate Investiture and Spiritweb?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sidebar, possibly worthy of it's own thread in either Cosmere theories or Stormlight Archives... is it Innate Investiture that Shardblades attack? Is there a difference between Innate Investiture and Spiritweb?

We have it in WoB that it is the Soul itself that is severed. The Spiritweb might be another word for this, or maybe it is a part of the soul, but I doubt it could be classified as "innate investiture" under any definition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have it in WoB that it is the Soul itself that is severed. The Spiritweb might be another word for this, or maybe it is a part of the soul, but I doubt it could be classified as "innate investiture" under any definition.

This is my question that I posted on the other thread... what makes you think that "spiritweb" and "Innate Investiture" aren't the same thing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that I think of it, Innate Investiture might make up a part of it, but I think Spiritweb is the name for a person's soul and its connections to other people and objects, therefore -web. But I do not feel like we have at this point enough information on this to make any more than guesses. You're right, they might be the same or at least overlap in some way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that I think of it, Innate Investiture might make up a part of it, but I think Spiritweb is the name for a person's soul and its connections to other people and objects, therefore -web. But I do not feel like we have at this point enough information on this to make any more than guesses. You're right, they might be the same or at least overlap in some way.

 

I fully acknowledge that this is largely a guess on my part, thought I do think it's a plausible one.

 

To clarify, I think there is a semantic difference between the two. Basically, the way I think of it, it's like the difference between "spider web" and "filament." A spiderweb is filament that has been shaped a certain way... just a pile of filament on the ground would not be a spiderweb.

 

So, basically, I think a person's Spiritual Aspect, their Soul, and their Spiritweb are all the same thing; if you could see it, I think it would be a latticework of energy (I see it as blue, but that's just me) that perhaps includes your connotations, rather than your definitions (the way your cognitive aspect would), and even does connect to the spiritwebs of other things around you, like friends, family, even things like home, or your favorite chair, or a distant homeland. In my head, this energy that your spiritweb is made of is "Innate Investiture."

 

And let me say one last time: I'm just totally spitballing here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I guess your guess is as good as mine at this point. I will be looking forward to a clarification from Brandon, though. We all seem to be using these three terms (Soul, Spiritweb and Innate Investiture) more or less interchangeably at times, and it can get quite a bit confusing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always thought of Spiritweb as sort of what your sDNA affected. Your spiritweb is the thing that the sDNA determines. It tells what Innate Investiture you have, but also other cognitive things. Hemalurgy takes someone's Innate Investiture bit and tacks it onto to yours. But you can take physical, or mental, or emotional attributes... Dang it, why do I have to be so good at destroying my own arguement?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the comparison of type I and type IV, and the idea that the smoke may be a shared byproduct. I don't think that has been postulated before.

The alternative is that the smoke is more from Nightblood's destructive ability, and the things he is destroying (such as walls, etc. in the final fight scene) are reduced to smoke, while Breath is simply fueling that ability.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nightblood only needs Breath when he destroys things, not for existing normally. So while the comparison is interesting, and most likely up to something, I doubt that it is the sentince itself that feeds on the breath.

(Also don´t lifless also have some kind of sentience/personality left and just can´t act on it?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nightblood only needs Breath when he destroys things, not for existing normally. So while the comparison is interesting, and most likely up to something, I doubt that it is the sentince itself that feeds on the breath.

(Also don´t lifless also have some kind of sentience/personality left and just can´t act on it?)

 

Nightblood, drawn, on his own, sucks the Breath out of whoever is bearing him, whether he's being used to destroy anything or not. The only thing that suppresses this "feeding" is when he's sheathed. I think the sheath is part of the construction, a safety measure, something that restricts his power, prevents him from feeding, and does affect his sentience. The brief glimpse we get of him when he's drawn is... a vastly different personality than his sheathed one. His sheathed one, it is constantly remarked upon, is child-like in some ways, clearly stunted. Perhaps this degradation of his mental facilities is why he doesn't constantly absorb Breath.

 

We have heard WoB that there's a tiny bit of the original personality of the Lifeless left. Maybe something so small runs off the tiny bits of "life" left over in the corpse itself, maybe it is what feeds on the Lifeless's Breath, and that's why it has to be replaced every few years. Maybe it's simply too little to register and thus doesn't cost anything.

 

There's a phrase used in scientific research called "ceteris parabis". It means, "all else being equal," and it's a bit of a joke, because in real life, all else is never equal. In pure theory, Types I and IV have sentience, and Types II and III do not. In real life, if this holds less than perfectly true, it doesn't necessarily invalidate the theory, it could just means there's more going on. Perhaps the Breath of a Lifeless doesn't add any sentience, as the theory states, but perhaps because of something to do with realmatics, it's difficult if not impossible to find a corpse that's actually been scrubbed entirely clean of its previous sentience.

 

As anyone who's read alloy of law knows, things of different mass fall at the same speed (yes I know I'm simplifying). Galileo once famously demonstrated this by dropping a heavy ball and a light ball off the Leaning Tower of Pisa. The heavy ball landed first. By about five inches. Does that mean his theory was wrong? Of course not. It just meant there was another factor involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nightblood, drawn, on his own, sucks the Breath out of whoever is bearing him, whether he's being used to destroy anything or not. The only thing that suppresses this "feeding" is when he's sheathed. I think the sheath is part of the construction, a safety measure, something that restricts his power, prevents him from feeding, and does affect his sentience. The brief glimpse we get of him when he's drawn is... a vastly different personality than his sheathed one. His sheathed one, it is constantly remarked upon, is child-like in some ways, clearly stunted. Perhaps this degradation of his mental facilities is why he doesn't constantly absorb Breath.

I forgot the part about Nightbloods personality changing. It still could be that he constantly destroys the air around him.

 

Mhhh.....

So either only "strong" sentince needs Breath or there are different reasons for the consumed Breath.

The only other reason for Returned to have a need to feed would be that they are not constantly under the control of a command and the extra energy is there to flll up the increased capacity in decion making. Kinda like having to constantly awaken themself with a new command for everything they want to do.

 

Not that I have any proof for this, so everything goes, I suppose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot the part about Nightbloods personality changing. It still could be that he constantly destroys the air around him.

 

Mhhh.....

So either only "strong" sentince needs Breath or there are different reasons for the consumed Breath.

The only other reason for Returned to have a need to feed would be that they are not constantly under the control of a command and the extra energy is there to flll up the increased capacity in decion making. Kinda like having to constantly awaken themself with a new command for everything they want to do.

 

Not that I have any proof for this, so everything goes, I suppose.

 

You're right, my theory that it's specifically sentience is weak. Without more information, it's hard to be sure, but there could well be a different aspect that Types I and IV share that I haven't considered yet. Any thoughts?

 

And that's a fascinating idea about the Returned re-Awakening themselves... I will have to think on this matter and get back to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Is it Possible that Breaths Can Mimic StormLight in a Way? Because if so, Nightblood might be Soulcasting the Things he destroys into Smoke. Or possibly he's tensoring. Also, I don't think he destroys the Breath of those he kills, I think he feeds on them. Like a Vampire

Stormlight, in theory, is only a energy scource, so Nightblood could be able to use Breath to cause a magical effect in the cognitive realm similar to soulcasting. However given that his ability comes from the command "destroy (evil)" I find it unlikely that he would not attack as aggresive as possible (read all three realms or at the very least the phisical and spiritual) also every "cognetive changing magic" seems to have some kind of "agrement" with its target and that as well does not sound very destructive to me.

It is not impossible though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it Possible that Breaths Can Mimic StormLight in a Way? Because if so, Nightblood might be Soulcasting the Things he destroys into Smoke. Or possibly he's tensoring. Also, I don't think he destroys the Breath of those he kills, I think he feeds on them. Like a Vampire

Well, Stormlight, to get it into your system, is inhaled. So is Breath. When withdrawing it from an Invested object, or when someone gives you their Breath, a vaporous rainbow cloud of light is formed which flows into you when you inhale it, as shown when Vasher gets his Breath at the beginning of the book.

 

Also, both require touch. To do a Basic and Reverse Lashing, or to Soulcast, you must be touching the object. You also must be touching the object when Awakening. 

 

Another similarity, they both increase the health of the wielder. Stormlight makes you faster, stronger, and heals your wounds. It is theorized if someone were to be able to hold it indefinitely, they would be immortal. Breath makes you stronger, heal faster (No toxins), and slows your age until you become immortal. 

 

There are likely many other similarities I'm too tired to remember at the moment, but this is it for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Chaos locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...