[Edgedancer/newsletter spoilers] An almost divine skill

[summersnow]

Quote

...finding in that place the Skybreakers dividing the innocent from the guilty, there ensued a great debate." "The considerable abilities of the Skybreakers for making such amounted to an almost divine skill, for which no specific Surge or spren grants capacity, but however the order came to such an aptitude, the fact of it was real and acknowledged even by their rivals."

Hauka, the captain of the guard in Tashikk, manages to see through the merchant lies almost instantly and with barely any thought finds an exceedingly reasonable explanation for his presumed crime(which proves to be correct). While later, talking with the deputy scribe she complains about dun spheres.

Perhaps this is just me reaching, but I think there's a very good reason why we get her POV. I think she's the 1st protoSkybreaker we meet. 

Also, there's the added benefit of Nalan having been seen in Tashikk recently. I have a feeling that his reaction to a skybreaker surgebinder will interesting. Not sure how Lift and Hauka will get along, tho.

What do yea think?

 

Edited July 10, 2016 by summersnow

[Doc12]

Good reasoning. A lift/hauka team up would be fun to read. Alternately it could be something like lift running around stealing food while hauka chases her. Anyway, I agree that hauka is a good skybreaker candidate.

Have an upvote!

[Doc12]

You know what else would be interesting? Lift helping Hauka become a Radiant and sort of unwittingly guoding her through the bonding process. 

"If you see a voidbringer, ya gotta say the words to capture it!"

"I'm pretty sure that not a voidbringer"

"That's what they all say!"

[Stormgate]

I actually said something to this effect in another post.

If two Sharders independently come up with the same theory, it stands a greater chance of being at least partially correct.

[ParadoxicalZen]

I did think it a little odd there was mention of dun spheres but it didn't click. Upvote!

[summersnow]

15 hours ago, Doctor12 said:

Good reasoning. A lift/hauka team up would be fun to read. Alternately it could be something like lift running around stealing food while hauka chases her.

The way her reactions are worded it seems she's almost maternal to me. There are also many parallels between Lift and Vin; I could see Hauka as a parental figure in lifts life who teaches her about trust and life outside the thieving world. But, again, I might be reaching at this point.

[Argent]

Remind me again, where do we see this Hauka? The name rings no bells right now...

[ParadoxicalZen]

31 minutes ago, Argent said:

Remind me again, where do we see this Hauka? The name rings no bells right now...

The novella excerpt in the newsletter!

[Argent]

I didn't read that part! I am revisiting the excerpt right now, and I am seeing a ton of stuff I hadn't noticed before, I don't know what's going on. But it's like a second newsletter for me right now, more new content!

[The Invested Beard]

Yeah I completely missed this because gmail cut off a large section at the end as the email body was too long. After reading the whole thing, yeah I can see how Brandon might be setting that character up to be a Skybreaker.

[Argent]

Hmm, okay. There is definitely something weird about Hauka's identification of the smuggler's crimes. Too specific. But the way it's explained, and the way Nissiqquan just accepts it, that's also weird. So I am not convinced she is an incipient Skybreaker, though there is certainly some evidence towards that hypothesis; I think her PoV was included mostly so we see Lift in a different light, so we are not stuck in her head for the entire novella. 

[Landis963]

2 minutes ago, Argent said:

Hmm, okay. There is definitely something weird about Hauka's identification of the smuggler's crimes. Too specific. But the way it's explained, and the way Nissiqquan just accepts it, that's also weird. So I am not convinced she is an incipient Skybreaker, though there is certainly some evidence towards that hypothesis; I think her PoV was included mostly so we see Lift in a different light, so we are not stuck in her head for the entire novella. 

Maybe she's been doing this for a while now, long enough for it to be familiar to her coworkers, but hasn't been in a position to swear the 2nd Ideal yet?  

[Stormgate]

22 hours ago, Landis963 said:

Maybe she's been doing this for a while now, long enough for it to be familiar to her coworkers, but hasn't been in a position to swear the 2nd Ideal yet?  

Who knows? Maybe she hasn't even sworn the first one.

 

[Landis963]

6 minutes ago, Stormgate said:

Who knows? Maybe she hasn't even sworn the first one.

Perhaps.  Kaladin did display his uncanny mastery of the spear long before he swore the First Ideal (Assuming of course that "awesome with weapon of choice" is the Windrunner perk, and not something different).  However,  the infused spheres didn't start going dun abnormally quickly until after he swore it, IIRC, so that's my rationale.  

[Oversleep]

On 12.07.2016 at 7:21 PM, Landis963 said:

(Assuming of course that "awesome with weapon of choice" is the Windrunner perk, and not something different)

The current consensus is that Windrunners get abnormaly high number of squires. There is a WoB where somebody asked about Windrunners' perk and the answer was something like "watch the number of squires".

Kaladin's mastery of spear I'd assign as a simple talent. You know, sometimes people are born with talents - not everything has to be related with magic XD I say Kaladin is natural born spear genius. And he's got Stormlight.

The problem is that Lightweavers perk are probably Memories and the only Lightweaver example is complicated example as there was this whole repressing the bond thing... Elsecallers maybe have very good sense of direction, but again Jasnah is probably quite advanced in her Oaths.

We have no clue what other Orders ability could be and the examples running around (like Lift and Dalinar or Renarin) has already swore at least First and Second Ideal. That's not gonna help us determine when the ability starts to work.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Oversleep

[Landis963]

9 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Kaladin's mastery of spear I'd assign as a simple talent. You know, sometimes people are born with talents - not everything has to be related with magic XD I say Kaladin is natural born spear genius. And he's got Stormlight.

Except that when his bond with Syl is diminished in WoR, he is notably suckier with the spear.  Part of that can be attributed to his injury, part to his conflicted state of mind, but he himself notes how much less instinctive the spear katas are.

[CaptainRyan]

10 hours ago, Landis963 said:

Except that when his bond with Syl is diminished in WoR, he is notably suckier with the spear.  Part of that can be attributed to his injury, part to his conflicted state of mind, but he himself notes how much less instinctive the spear katas are.

I have always interpreted that as due to his inner conflict and injuries. He had some serious injuries (a shattered leg along with a bunch of other hurts) and he was pretty depressed at this point (lost his spren, during the Weeping, everyone else was gone, conflicted about his choices, etc). It would, to me, cheapen Kaladin as a character if all of his awesomeness is attributable to his bond and none of it to his own skills or talents.

[Farnsworth]

When Kal is doing his Katas in the chasms in WoK, all of his bridgemates are extremely impressed by his kata. They said that it looked amazing. That seems to imply that it's magic.

[asterion137]

Kaladin was accustomed to having super strength, speed, and coordination during combat. It's a little like an astronaut getting back from space and being a weakling despite being extremely fit before going into space and excercising every day in space.

[summersnow]

Supposedly, Kaladin bonded Syl (at least, first interacted with her) just before the battle when he killed Helaran. By that time he was already an accomplished soldier and squadleader. 

I think in one of Teft's POV he hypothesised that stormlight and the Nahel bond doesn't grant skill, it perfects. Probably Hauka already possess some amount of capacity in that direction. I don't think Kaladin consciously Invests before speaking the First Ideal, but he does use surges: he displays unusual amount of strength, endurance, deflect s parshendi arrows. It's also inferred that the more Words spoken the greater the presence of the spren in the Physical Realm, and the more capacity to Invest Stormlight and retain it for longer periods of time.

 

[Jondesu]

7 hours ago, summersnow said:

I think in one of Teft's POV he hypothesised that stormlight and the Nahel bond doesn't grant skill, it perfects.

I've seen a lot of people disparage what Teft says as being uninformed, but I think he was spot on with that one.  Kaladin has a innate talent for the spear, almost (but not quite) supernatural without the Nahel Bond and Stormlight, but then when you add those, it does more than just provide the added dexterity, strength, etc; it brings him closer to the embodiment of the Ideal spearman (perhaps other weapons, but he certainly didn't seem quite as comfortable with Syl as a sword).

Hauka also probably has good instincts and is good at reading people as well as learning/memorizing laws and codes; if she is a proto-Skybreaker, that bond may be enhancing and nearly perfecting those abilities, leading to that ability of the Skybreakers.  I don't even know if I'd count those as "boons" like people have hypothesized, but maybe simply some of the characteristics that attract the spren in the first place, and therefore strengthened by the bond.

jW

[summersnow]

Not sure if it's a red herring, but Nalan presence in Tashikk does raise some interesting plotlines. He seems to hunt down surgebinders with some connection to Cultivation, but also the very young and the very old  (though this might just be so he's seen as unlikable by the reader). 

I'm not sure what form of Travel he uses, though he get around far too much for conventional means (Iriali, then Marabethia, then Azir, then The Shattered Plains). If he doesn't have the means to Elsecall and he wants to get from The Shattered Plains to Shinovar he would probably pass through tashikk.

I don'tt remember any of his minions actually displaying surgebinding abilities and I'm fairly certain he doesn't want any rival skybreaker around. Lift could be someone with the necessary information for Hauka to survive Nalan's "justice".

[Pathfinder]

When Kaladin was a child back in Hearthstone and fought with a staff against the other kid, he had never held a staff before in combat in his life. In the beginning he gets his but handed to him. Suddenly he is able to pull off incredible moves and it feels "right" to him. He is then shocked, and confused by both his ability and how Laral is acting that then result in him losing. He then requests the other kid teaches him. Going from no skill whatsoever, to nearly beating someone trained, to then getting beaten. That seems supernatural to me. 

[CaptainRyan]

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

Going from no skill whatsoever, to nearly beating someone trained, to then getting beaten. That seems supernatural to me. 

1: No skill whatsoever
This was literally the first time Kaladin had ever held a weapon. "No skill" is definitely appropriate.

2: Nearly beating someone trained
I doubt Jost was seriously "trained" - he had obviously had a lesson or three but calling him trained is a bit of a stretch imo. Kaladin surprised Jost by getting back up and fighting as opposed to staying down. This, to me, would be akin to someone who is new to something, let's say American Football, being thrown a ball by the quarterback and juking out a seasoned defender. The run, the juke, everything felt right to the new football player because they are discovering something they have a natural talent for. They also make mistakes (Kaladin freezing instead of finishing his opponent) that can be corrected through training with a truly experienced person.

3. Then getting beaten
Addressed this in step 2. Simply having talent does not mean one can become a master at [staff fighting/football etc.] without intense training - it merely means you have an advantage.

While I do think it is possible that Kaladin's skills are derived from the Nahel bond I would be a bit disappointed if that was the explanation. I like to think that Kaladin has raw, natural talent and through the intense training he did, combined with the benefits of Nahel bond, he was perfected. If he never had a Nahel bond I still think he would be one of the best spearfighters in the army, in the same way Adolin is one of the best duelists in the army without a bond. 

[summersnow]

it would seem anticlimatic if all this broken and reforged men/women derive most of their skill and abilities from a supernatural bond. it would be interseting to see a timeline of the first encounter between Gavilar and the Parshendi alongside the start of spren coming in the Physical Realm and seeking people to grant surges(also if possible when Taln started breaking, but dont see how we could do that). 

When exactly does the skill and abilities granted by the bond start happening? Syl gives a really vague response about when exactly their bonding started and how much is the her gift and how much was already there. And it feels like this should not be left to interpretation: is Kaladin talented on his own/or is he just someone chosen by a spren; are Shallan's skills purely something recived through the bond/or is it something perfected. 

Edited July 18, 2016 by summersnow