20160704 - Robinski - Hold the Bridge (Redux) - Part 2 of 2 - 4918 words (V)

[Robinski]

Well, after a minor crisis of confidence and giving Silk the run around (sorry Silk!), there is still a vacant slot so here I go, in for a penny... as they say.

This second (and final) part of Hold the Bridge is unedited since last week, so you may find similar issues to ones you encountered before. Better to keep the benchmark the same, I thought.

Thanks for reading if you have the chance and the inclination - all comments gratefully received.

Cheers, Robinski

 

[spieles]

Big thoughts - so this flows well. I liked the final confrontation with the traveler though I confess to being confused by what IT ALL MEANS. I also think that that his relationship with Magdi seems a bit forced; however I think you can solve this with (1) more information about their past and (2) losing the heavy emotional confessions. What is left unsaid is often as powerful as what is. Otherwise, I think my comments are mostly requests for clarity and the like. 

p.1 "Fermarald stood on the balcony, but came in on hearing his name." This is a bit awkward. The reader has to figure out that Harth, after seeing Femerald, calls him in. Better just to have Harth see Fermarald and then call to him with some sort of opener, like, “So I’m back with you idiots.” (Okay, maybe you don’t need “the idiots…”)

p. 1 This section: "The young man met Harth’s gaze, his features set hard. “When I arrived, an old timer told me the enemy captured the citadel once, but all woke the next day in their proper beds and both sides went to war at dusk again as usual. He’s long gone. They’re all gone and I'm still here.” Fermarald’s words were full of bile. “They attack to get away from this .” Harth could only nod and dismiss him." 

I find this section a little confusing - especially on the second re-read. I think it might be more interesting if an old timer said that the next day the hoard didn't attack - that they were all gone. Something more ominous. Or maybe cut it since later Harth wonders about it. Otherwise, I’m not sure what I’m supposed to get out of this bit. I get that there’s a pointlessness to their pattern, but I would think that there would be some aspect of the battle that allows a man to move on – but if there’s no battle there’s only a straight walk to hell?

p. 2 "He explained a different tactic; predictability led to defeat, if that mattered. He spared a passing thought for the opposing commander." Put this directly into dialogue. Let me feel the effect of Harth’s words on his troops.

p. 2 "The enemy attacked as before, a dark mass of bodies hurling itself on them in hot fury, ferocity and relentlessness . They howled and the charged, faster than yesterday, Harth thought – if there were days here." These are vague words that don’t suck me in. Better to talk about them charging despite the hail of Harth’s archers, despite the piling of bodies or maybe some detail about their clothing or face paint or weapons.

p. 3 The horde retreated, knowing they were beaten. A few fought on, and fell into the abyss. Harth stood two steps back and watched them fall  as ragged cheers rippled through his troops. I’m curious here. Was there a call for retreat? Or did morale collapse with the break in the lines and the enemy makes a break for it, deserter-style? 

p. 4 "He found that wanted her to continue, but it was not the time, if it ever was here. “What happened to you?”"

I had to reread this. I thought something had happened to her in the most recent battle?  For the reader’s sake, you might want to clarify, “So how did you end up here?” or “How did you die?”

p. 4 ““I deserve your anger. I can’t change what I did. To see someone familiar amidst this strangeness is, reassuring."  Is shereally  angry? Or just unimpressed? She’s definitely taunting him. But what did he do? I wouldn’t expect him to feel guilty for being one of her customers, though did he do something worse? I'd like some details about their past relationship thrown in here.

p. 5 "“I mean, where is everyone else?  There must have been thousands dead when the lines broke. I suppose they went straight on their way, but He couldn’t decide on us one way or the other.”" This doesn’t sound like his voice anymore. The “I mean” especially sounds modern and younger. I’d expect him to say something closer to “I wonder about the rest of my soldiers.”

p. 5 “So, you’re seeking my forgiveness?  Maybe I should wait to see how He decides.” Her lips twitched into a half-smile and Harth returned it. He moved towards her and pulled her into his chest.  “I know I'm just a cheap turn to you.”  Wait. How does she get this conclusion out of their conversation? It doesn’t flow naturally. I’d expect her to relate to him regarding all of the death and then their mutual situation. She should say something like, “I suppose we’re both sinners” or “I am glad to see you too, you know.” Something that has the two of them connecting. Because when he pulls her to his chest, I was flabbergasted, it felt out of the blue.

p. 5 "It doesn’t matter.” How had he lived a life without discovering this feeling? But it would be all too brief, for what were the chances of them moving on together and to the same place?  Their relationship feels forced too easily. To avoid this, don’t take us onto a cerebral note. Keep us focused on the sensual side of the companionship. Does her hair have a smell? Is her skin especially soft? Unlike the rest of the sterile, ethereal citadel – does she seem real?

p. 5 “Do you believe that we’re all being judged, worthy of heaven or fit only for hell?” she asked. - This question doesn’t fit her voice thus far. I’d expect her to be like “So what’s the point of more battles?” I get that this is pillow talk, but it’s veering too lofty for her social status. I’m assuming she’s uneducated.

p. 5 "...Maybe they believe they can avoid hell if they take it. I’ve been in hell for years. I think I’d choose it now stay with you.” Too much of a leap based on what I’ve seen of their relationship. I don’t buy it so fast – unless he’s teasing her affectionately about it.

p. 6 There should be some conversation about her going into battle - since it later becomes clear that everyone fights - including her. 

p. 6 "She turned to face him. “Well, love can’t be wrong at least. Let’s worship life while we can.” - This feels forced for their short interaction. We need more clues about their previous relationship for it to work.

p. 6 "Through the dark they went, and out onto the bridge...."  This is too much replay. I’d like a comparison to his previous day’s battle strategy. Does the enemy come forward with a formation to counter his previous diamond formation – which Harth expects – and so uses the subtler funnel formation against them? Also, the previous day was so frenzied, is Harth able to notice more details this round? I like how you point out that some fall under blows – but this time does he notice that no blood flows? I’d like Harth to feel more unease despite the frenzy of battle.

p. 7 " “You hailed our victory even though Cresca was lost yesterday. Did she mean nothing to you?” - Whoa – this sound very accusatory. Like honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Fermarald punched him for saying something so presumptuous. It’d be much better if Harth’s questions were subtler, e.g. “I’m sorry about Cresca.” Fermarald frowned. “You shouldn’t be.” Then… “You don’t feel her loss?....”

p. 8 "The young man stared back blankly. “This place is beyond life and death. We have no future here.” I’d really like to see a crack in his vulnerability here. If he keeps forming these relationships, that seems less like he doesn’t care and more like he’s a glutton for punishment.

p. 8 "Harth held her, trying to still his rage. His mind darted back and forth searching for a place to lay blame, but there was none, and it festered in his stomach until, at last, he fell asleep." I have no idea why he’s feeling rage. What did Magdi bring up in him that caused the rage?

p. 11 "Harth cast about but spotted no commander. Their middle had crumpled just enough to lure the Hundred forward. His blood ran cold, and this was no ethereal wound" - I’m vaguely understanding that this is a trap but I’m confused about the 100 – who are they again? They weren’t mentioned in the previous day’s battle.

p. 12 Harth staid his hand when faced with a crone then a stripling girl who could hardly raise her blade. He pushed them away. His mind wandered to Magdi. Oh, how he wished to be with her now. How was this the way to judge a person’s worth? He cursed and pushed on behind his shield."  - I don’t buy his missing Madgi in the middle of a battle. Unless he sees a gutted woman that makes him fear for Magdi.

p. 13 " Losing was unthinkable! Magdi would not be able to look at him. He could imagine disgust on the traveller’s face. Had he damned them all? No, he could redeem it!
" - Definitely lose the exclamation points. They make him seem silly, but otherwise, why does he think these things? I haven’t felt this kind of self doubt from him before so it really feels out of the blue.

p. 14 End the final paragraph on the page with "Now a blade protruded from her side." The subsequent lines over-explain Harth to the reader. Trust the reader!

p. 17 I like his back and forth with the Traveller.

p. 20 I think we are back in his real life so for extra clarity, name the enemy and the town that is being attacked.

There we go - hope this helps!

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2016 by spieles

[Mandamon]

Overall thoughts:  This is better than last time, and I think the adjusted ending works a lot better, but like spieles, I'm left with more questions that I started
with.  We still don't have a good answer to why all the fighting on the bridge and why/how Harth got there in the middle of a physcial battle.  Did he actually die and
return?  We at least see it's real now, so it's not just psychological.   

I'll also second Spieles that the relationship with Magdi still feels forced.  He's in love with her at the end, but she was just a whore at the beginning.  I didn't get the
implication they really fell in love during the story.

Being somewhat prescriptive, but it seems you've changed the "theme" of the story.   Before, Harth was fighting for his worth, then goes back to the world and....?
Now, we find that presumably the reason Harth was there was to get the Traveler to move on.  So in a sense the protagonist (but not the main character) is the Traveler!  
Then I'm sort of confused at the end by the scrap of cloth.  Is it just a promise that he'll see Magdi again?  Why would the creator put him through all this just to bring
him back?  I think I'm rambling now, but hopefully you get something from this.

Notes as I read:

Pg 1 "I should have..., died."
--Extra comma

Pg 1 How many did we lose?"
"Twenty-three, they'll be replaced before dusk."
--Something still doesn't sit right with me here.   I think it's the difference, whatever that is, between dying and waking up and dying and being deemed worthy

Pg 1 the enemy captured the citadel once,
--I like this addition

pg 3: “Did you enjoy that, Yons?”
--who?  Is this Fermarald's first name?

pg 3: "Harth hated the pride that he felt. It had taken so many lives."
--this day?  It hasn't taken any lives, has it, if they wake up again tomorrow?

pg 4: "oh <i>high</i> commander
--on the re-read, I think this stress and the one from last week are too much.  Is she angry?  sarcastic?  horny?  I don't think we know enough about her at this point.

end of pg4/beginning of pg 5: hard to tell who's speaking here.

pg 7: "I saw her go over the edge. Some come back from that, most don’t. Maybe they learn something on the way down.
--well, this answers one of my questions.

pg 8: Her fingers touched his lips. “Don’t.” She was crying and smiling. “It’s too sad. I'm desperate to hear it, but it’s too late.”
--There's not enough here for me to feel sad about, so I can't empathize.  What would he have stopped in relation to his father? Or does Magdi already know that part?

pg 11: "The traveller had never explained the cost of losing."
--this is where I feel the lack of tension in the story.  I'm not convinced there is a cost to losing, so I have a hard time caring if they win or lose a battle.

pg 12: "How was this the way to judge a person’s worth?"
--exactly

pg 13: "Losing was unthinkable..."
--This whole tirade tries to put some cost for losing on Harth, but I still don't totally buy it.  The only price for losing a battle is that Harth is mad with himself.

pg 16: "No-one was quite sure whether if those who fell returned or not, although a handful had professed it."
--This undercuts what was said about falling over the edge on pg 7

pg 19: "I’ve learned that the side I’m on doesn’t matter, but my actions do." 
--I gather this is sort of the theme of Harth's purgatory, but it doesn't ring as strong as it could with the uncertainty about why they are fighting and how they are
judged worthy.

pg 19: "I'm here for you. I am your deliverance. Let go,”
--I like this.  Harth's purpose is to drag the king onward.

pg 20: "“No, a promise I think.”
--Ok, better than 'it was just a dream,' but this leads to more questions on my part about the whole bridge setup.

[Robinski]

Thanks for the comments, Spieles and Mandamon, much appreciated. I can see the lack of focus, and that the story is not working because of the lack of convincing motivational threads running through it. I'll come back to your comments in detail when I get the chance, but really appreciate you reading this again relatively soon after the first time. I'm reassured that it's improving. My big take-away this time is to work to make the Magdi-Harth relationship convincing and worthy of emotional investment by the reader.

Also, I have an idea in relation to the king / traveler that might dial the ending up a bit.

Thank you both!

[kais]

Overall

This section didn't seem as polished as the first. Still some good gems, but the Magdi relationship is still forced (but far less rapey, which I appreciate). The transitions between scenes were often jumpy and I had to back read a lot to figure out what had happened. The ending makes more sense, but I echo a lot of the same things said by spieles and Mandamon. BUT, much progress since the original. Can't wait to see the next version!

As I go

- page 1: why does he want to ask about Magdi? They have no more basis for a relationship than he does with any other person thus far

- page 3: Why does Harth hate pride at taking lives, if taking them means they get to move on? They're already dead, so its not like he is killing them again.

- page 3: Why is Magdi visiting him? Your last submission made it seem like they were not on the best of terms.

- page 4: Yes, confused now even more as she offers herself. Why is she visiting him knowing that A) they're both dead and money means nothing here and B.) they weren't that close in life?

- page 4: Magdi's explanation of why she is there only helps a little. I'd be more convinced if she tried to gut him first.

- end of page four and beginning of page five could use a few dialogue tags, I got lost.

- page four: the Magdi/Harth banter is a start, but still unconvincing. I see others have commented on this, too, so I'll stop harping on it now.

- page 7: rough transition between chatting with the young solider about his love affairs and then sleeping with Magdi. A change of scene tag might be in order

- page 14: the attack of the Horde into the private chambers seems out of place. Have they invaded before?

- page 19: what is the point of taking the Hoard leader with him over the edge? I don't understand the reasoning.

[Robinski]

Thank you, Kaisa, great comments. I had one light bulb moment just now reading your thoughts (as written here!).

I see I have dropped the ball at the end. It's the traveller that Harth takes over the edge, not the rival leader. At least one thing I will need to clarify, among numerous others.

Thanks so much to reading again so soon.

I think I will take some time to mull this over and move on (or back) to another project for a bit.

[spieles]

On 7/6/2016 at 3:41 AM, Robinski said:

Thanks for the comments, Spieles and Mandamon, much appreciated. I can see the lack of focus, and that the story is not working because of the lack of convincing motivational threads running through it. I'll come back to your comments in detail when I get the chance, but really appreciate you reading this again relatively soon after the first time. I'm reassured that it's improving. My big take-away this time is to work to make the Magdi-Harth relationship convincing and worthy of emotional investment by the reader.

You're very welcome - and yes, it's definitely improving.

 

[krystalynn03]

Hey <R>,

I emailed the LBL's and specific comments to you.

A: The ending is much improved. I especially appreciate the torn scrap of cloth, proving it wasn't just a blackout. I also like that you developed Magdi and the Traveller more. As people and yourself have already noted, it's not fully polished yet, but I like the direction you're going. The battle scenes are also easier to follow. I feel much more invested in all the characters in this version. Good job!

B: As always, Fermerald and Dummkopf, er, Dumkald. I don't want to repetitively fuss when you haven't had time to revise, so I won't fuss, but any paragraph I see starting with those two means you're just taking care of narrative necessities and I tend to scan.

C: Blocking and scene shifting and some dialogue tags.

D: WInner, winner, chicken dinner--no complaints here again!

I know you're taking a break from HTB for a while, but thanks so much for sharing...if it improved this much in just one more round, I'm excited to see version 3.0 (when you're ready to do it)!

[kais]

9 minutes ago, krystalynn03 said:

Dummkopf, er, Dumkald

I'm really glad I'm not the only one who keeps reading it this way.

[krystalynn03]

I didn't read it that way...but when I tried to remember his name, that was the first thing that came to mind. Not trying to irk <R>...nor do I think he needs to change the name...but that's what I keep seeing in my head when I try to remember the tertiary character.

[Robinski]

7 hours ago, krystalynn03 said:

Dummkopf, er, Dumkald

Lol, no I'm not going to change it, but still, lol!

[Robinski]

Great comments, thank you Krystalynn. In this round, I've had some great suggestions and pointers, and there has been a great consistency to the comments that really encourages me that I've got clear targets to address in the next edit. I've also had a couple of light-bulb moments that I think will strengthen the story.

I will put it down for a while though, and start on a new project as I work through Season 10 of Reading Excuses, the one which they set up as a 'masterclass'. I'm still determined to get caught up with RE before the end of the year.

Thank you so much for the line-by-lines, to you and Spieles, sorry I haven't responded on them directly, but I sure am grateful and will be delighted when I pick them up on going back to HtB.

[rdpulfer]

Sorry I'm late to the party! I hope it's not too late to add some feedback. I don't have too much to add, just my two-cents.

- I liked the explanation of Magdi's back-story and connection to Harth. I'd honestly like to see more of their backstory both together and apart, but I understand it's not necessarily crucial to the story. 

- I believe it was in the previous incarnation (though I could be wrong) but I liked Harth's conversation about Fernald concerning Cresca's passing.

- I liked the ending. It was definitely a lot more optimistic and felt just a little more in keeping with the overall story (that said, I did like the previous ending too, so make of that what you will.)

[Robinski]

Never too late, thanks RD, much appreciated. I always look forward to your comments, which cut to the chase, no messing around

It's tempting to include something more about Magdi and Harth's backgrounds. It's a good challenge for me to pick up in the next edit, to include more substance in that area with a minimum of extra text! I think I'm going to do that, as several people have mentioned it.

Thank you again.

And hey, what are you working on yourself - we gonna see any of your stuff sometime?

[Carcinios]

I think by and large my feelings were the same as with part 1 although I struggled to follow some of the tactics being used. It certainly had a better flow and I really enjoyed the confrontation with the traveler again. The notion that he was working for both sides was an interesting one. Which raised the questions about what the bridge is there for. And where does the creator fit into the picture. So that left me feeling interested in the wider world beyond the story. Good work.

The ending didn't work for me and I wonder if that is because the focus is on the secondary rather than the primary storyline. Most of the events in the other world focus on the defence of the bridge and what that means. The relationship with Magdi feels less important and yet when we get to the end we see how his relationship with Magdi has given him clarity but we don't get to see how the bridge itself has changed him. That is what I wanted to see. Who has Harth become after the lesson of the bridge?

 

[Robinski]

Some great comments there, Carcinios, thank you, and yet more aspects for me to think about when I come to edit HtB next time around. Some proper teasers as well, which I will need to think carefully about. Thank you for taking the time, much appreciated.

<R>

[rdpulfer]

On 7/11/2016 at 2:36 AM, Robinski said:

Never too late, thanks RD, much appreciated. I always look forward to your comments, which cut to the chase, no messing around

It's tempting to include something more about Magdi and Harth's backgrounds. It's a good challenge for me to pick up in the next edit, to include more substance in that area with a minimum of extra text! I think I'm going to do that, as several people have mentioned it.

Thank you again.

And hey, what are you working on yourself - we gonna see any of your stuff sometime?

I'm glad I could help. I'm presently stumbling through a young adult book right now. I hope to post it in a couple months or so, after I figure out the shape of the plot and a couple other things