Rich2244

Magic Mixing

26 posts in this topic

Hi, I've been around for a while posting but this is my first actual thread.

So we know from WoB that the Magic systems that we know about will interact with each other in future books, thought I'd ask what people thought cool/interesting/powerful combinations of the different Magic types could be and also how do we think Brendon will introduce them to each other, past what we have seen with world hoppers. I've seen this alluded to in other threads but not a thread specifically about it yet.

Ill start with a fairly obvious one, harder steel pushing/ Iron pulling due to the weight of shardplate.

Edited by Rich2244
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Easier/better Awakening by "supercharging" breaths with stormlight (breaths are more or less Investiture and so is stormlight, so maybe you could combine them)

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A mistborn lightweaver. You can soulcast your metals so you never run out, and can change disguises on the fly. 

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A Lightweaver with perfect color and pitch recognition from Breaths... Even more realistic illusions!

Gold Ferring with access to storm light = health compounding lite + awesome surge abilities!

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2 hours ago, Samaldin said:

Easier/better Awakening by "supercharging" breaths with stormlight (breaths are more or less Investiture and so is stormlight, so maybe you could combine them)

This is interesting and I wondered about this at the end of WoR when ...*major spoilers for WoR* .... the herold of justice throws nightblood to the ground. 

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A hemalurgic nightmare monster. figure out how to steal surgbinding to create super-inquisitors. They would have access to whatever Feurchemy, Allomancy and Surgebinding of their choice.

Heck based on that one Kandra we met, such an Inquisitor could change up the combos on the fly.

Edited by TwelfthOfSnackTime
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50 minutes ago, TwelfthOfSnackTime said:

A hemalurgic nightmare monster. figure out how to steal surgbinding to create super-inquisitors. They would have access to whatever Feurchemy, Allomancy and Surgebinding of their choice.

Heck based on that one Kandra we met, such an Inquisitor could change up the combos on the fly.

I do not think it would be as easy for an Inquisitor as it is for a kandra, if you mean by switching it up is removing one and putting in a different one. Kandra can move their bind points around, and form flesh around the spike treating it as spiked, while with a person, it actually has to be stabbed in. Remove an extra spike from a kandra, and it can close the hole easily. Remove a spike from an inquisitor, and you have a gaping hole lol

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15 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I do not think it would be as easy for an Inquisitor as it is for a kandra, if you mean by switching it up is removing one and putting in a different one. Kandra can move their bind points around, and form flesh around the spike treating it as spiked, while with a person, it actually has to be stabbed in. Remove an extra spike from a kandra, and it can close the hole easily. Remove a spike from an inquisitor, and you have a gaping hole lol

Not if they had gold feruchemy.  Just add a gold spike and boom!  Now they can switch up spikes with ease.

 

On a side note, switching spikes like that would probably do some really wacky stuff to a human.  It would probably warp both their personality and their body.

Edited by Magestar
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1 minute ago, Magestar said:

Not if they had gold feruchemy.  Just add a gold spike and boom!  Now they can switch up spikes with ease.

 

On a side note, switching spikes like that would probably do some really wacky stuff to a human.  It would probably warp both their personality and their body.

Ah touche, though from what we saw of Marsh, still would hurt like hell lol

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2 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

A Lightweaver with perfect color and pitch recognition from Breaths... Even more realistic illusions!

Gold Ferring with access to storm light = health compounding lite + awesome surge abilities!

Can we add forgery to this one, seems like the light weaving and forgery combined with this level of skill could be very powerful.

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Feruchemical duralumin and/or aluminium + Forgery.

Identity and connection seems like it'd make you really good at Forgery. Possibly allomantic gold as well, to know yourself better.

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Answering your "how do we think Brandon will introduce them to each other" question...

 

Well I think that the first people to enter the space age would be the Fjordell because:

1. Elantris was set hundreds of years before The Final Empire, so they have a head start on most of the other peoples.

2. They don't have some factor that slows down their progress. Both Arelon and Roshar have magic users to provide things for them. Roshar is also war-torn. Civilizations who are spending all of their resources to gain more equipment for their troops usually don't have the time and resources to progress in technology. The citizens of the Elendel Basin have crops and soil that are unnaturally fertile. Even Sazed says that they could have progressed much farther if their soil was normal. Minor shardworlds have other limiting factors, like the Shades on Threnody.

 

The second people to enter the space age would be the Scadrians. They are unified, so they would not be hampered by any war. Their civilization is also super-huge.

 

However, this doesn't matter, because the Radiants and Elantrians can both travel into the cognitive realm, so they can travel to other shardworlds. They would be the first people to interact with eachother. Then, the Nalthese will join the circle. There's only one known Nalthese worldhopper currently, so they will probably be next in line. Last will be Scadrial. Worldhopping in Scadrial will most likely only work with Atium, because Demoux is an atium burner. Technologically, the Selish probably already have space travel because there's at least eight hundred years between them and the Alloy of Law. They will share this technology with the other shardworlds.

Regarding your main question (about combinations)...

 

Well, there are most likely a number of ways nicrosilminds could interact with other investiture. But since we don't actually know anything about them, I can't say for certain what those could be.

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Imagine,a fjordell man turned into an Elantrian with gold compounding abilities. EVEN MORE HEALING POWERS. Even if you ran out of gold you could still live! And on top of that, give him a lerasium nugget, turn him into a full mistborn. Strap him in Shardplate, give him an Honorblade and Surgebinding abilities ( I think Elsecaller fits best). As he is a Fjordell, get him to dominate someone in CS-Go, then he can access Dakhor magic. Also, give him a half-shard and soulcaster. 

Assuming that everyone has one-breath and those on Nalthis can take that breath, and that we are combining magics, then he can be an Awakener as well! 

Oh and when the Well of Ascension accumulates enough power, chuck him in there too.

Ergo: human 2.0, I wonder what his children will be like

(I'm trying to make sure the powers compliment each other and are physically possible :) ) 

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Nicrosil Compounder Awakener. If my pet theory about Nicrosil-stored Investiture being able to stand in for any other is correct, such a person would never actually have to worry about obtaining Breath for their works. 

Though that makes me wonder - inasmuch as Stormlight and Breath are interchangeable to some extent, would other forms of Investiture be also? Could an Awakener "feed" on Aon Aon, or a Radiant obtain Investiture from ChayShan if they were on Sel?

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13 hours ago, cloudjumper said:

Answering your "how do we think Brandon will introduce them to each other" question...

 

Well I think that the first people to enter the space age would be the Fjordell because:

1. Elantris was set hundreds of years before The Final Empire, so they have a head start on most of the other peoples.

2. They don't have some factor that slows down their progress. Both Arelon and Roshar have magic users to provide things for them. Roshar is also war-torn. Civilizations who are spending all of their resources to gain more equipment for their troops usually don't have the time and resources to progress in technology. The citizens of the Elendel Basin have crops and soil that are unnaturally fertile. Even Sazed says that they could have progressed much farther if their soil was normal. Minor shardworlds have other limiting factors, like the Shades on Threnody.

 

The second people to enter the space age would be the Scadrians. They are unified, so they would not be hampered by any war. Their civilization is also super-huge.

 

However, this doesn't matter, because the Radiants and Elantrians can both travel into the cognitive realm, so they can travel to other shardworlds. They would be the first people to interact with eachother. Then, the Nalthese will join the circle. There's only one known Nalthese worldhopper currently, so they will probably be next in line. Last will be Scadrial. Worldhopping in Scadrial will most likely only work with Atium, because Demoux is an atium burner. Technologically, the Selish probably already have space travel because there's at least eight hundred years between them and the Alloy of Law. They will share this technology with the other shardworlds.

Regarding your main question (about combinations)...

 

Well, there are most likely a number of ways nicrosilminds could interact with other investiture. But since we don't actually know anything about them, I can't say for certain what those could be.

So I literally re-read Defending Elysium yesterday and it made me think about the cosmere coming together in an interesting way. Basically (since this is cosmere theories I do not believe I need to spoiler tag, but if I do I apologize and will happily fix) the whole premise is a select few individuals "protecting" the rest of the galaxy from humanity. That faster than light travel and technology are not mutually exclusive. Whole civilizations had barely harnessed steam power before they were hoping all over the galaxy with individual faster than light travel. The protagonist is concerned that if mankind either learned how to travel Faster than Light in that personal psionic manner, or eventually actually did develop the technological analogue, that all the other species would be hopelessly outclassed by our weapons and we would take over. Sound familiar? Scadrial is relatively technologically advanced, yet does not hold faster than light travel, while you have individuals on Roshar and other planets that still use swords and spears that can elsecall and what have you as they see fit to other worlds. So it would be a very interesting dynamic to see play out. Some civilizations that are very cosmere aware and have been to and trade with numerous planets, while being hopelessly outclassed to another civilization that is just starting to find its place in the cosmere. Then between those are the civilizations that are neither technologically advanced, nor cosmere aware that gets caught in the middle. Makes you kind of wonder, is the Red Haze that is blocking Harmony necessarily evil? For all we know, it could be a shard that realized Scadrial is a culture that could get very powerful before it decides to enter the game, and clear the board of all its pieces. 

Edited by Pathfinder
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On 24.06.2016 at 4:46 PM, Pathfinder said:

Makes you kind of wonder, is the Red Haze that is blocking Harmony necessarily evil? For all we know, it could be a shard that realized Scadrial is a culture that could get very powerful before it decides to enter the game, and clear the board of all its pieces. 

Therefore it deliberately lets it stew in its own sauce so that it could get even more powerful before being let loose on the world? Mind, I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea that this is the motivation, but I think the fact that the Fakeless Immortal (who clearly is affiliated with Red Haze in some fashion) has been talking about changing the plans to wiping out all of Scadrial, suggests that the Shard is, in fact, evil. I'm pretty sure there are methods of evening the playing field that don't involve slaughtering several hundred million people. <edit: if that sounded offensive, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that.>

Overall, Scadrial entering the worldhopping scene is bound to make it really interesting. They are, alongside Rosharans, the only culture who has the capability to use magic on an industrial scale, and the only culture who can take their magitek with them and can find a source for their powers wherever they choose to go - Stormlight doesn't occur outside Roshar, Dor is bound to get useless away from Sel, Breaths are exclusive to Nalthians and the sand is just a normal sand without Taldain's sun. They are also the only culture with the ability to outright steal other culture's magic via Hemalurgy, and are not only furthest-advanced society, but also the most populous one. The deck is stacked pretty well in their favour. It is, frankly, no surprise that someone would want to cut them short before some sort of Pax Scadrialica happens.

Edited by Rasarr
spoiler white-out
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12 hours ago, Rasarr said:

Nicrosil Compounder Awakener. If my pet theory about Nicrosil-stored Investiture being able to stand in for any other is correct, such a person would never actually have to worry about obtaining Breath for their works. 

Though that makes me wonder - inasmuch as Stormlight and Breath are interchangeable to some extent, would other forms of Investiture be also? Could an Awakener "feed" on Aon Aon, or a Radiant obtain Investiture from ChayShan if they were on Sel?

Nicrosil Compounder Awakener wouldn't make infinite breaths, but the same amount of super powerfull breaths, i think (like divine breaths) - what would also be super cool: get a thousant of breaths, and every one of them would be powerfull enough to (for example) awaken  tree (Ent army!!!), which is still super op. Plus he could trade on super breath for a lot of small breaths - every one of them gives you immortality.

About other combinations:

Mistborn secret hisory spoiler

Spoiler

Elantrians had this think that connects you to preservation. Try something like that to spren?

And another one: 

WoR spoiler

Spoiler

MORE NIGHTBLOD-LIKE-SPREN RADIANTS

Or awaken by Nicrosil-Compounder-Awakener, Hemalurgic-Spike-Sword, as a spren!!! (Plus bonus of infinite stormlight).

 

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I disagree with the point about war slowing technological advance, if anything it does the opposite, countries are competing to gain any sort of advantage, peace delays gain as there is no real incentive.

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@Rasarr: Not sure I agree with a lot of what you say (and might suggest your White Sand spoiler, minor though it might be, be placed behind a cut), I nevertheless upvote you for Pax Scadrialia.

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Wars are a huge strain on the economy, so a society embroiled in say a century or warfare is very likely to fall behind a society with a century of investing in all of the sciences. And in a world with magic, the focus can be on improvements there instead of technology.

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On 6/24/2016 at 5:09 PM, Rasarr said:

Therefore it deliberately lets it stew in its own sauce so that it could get even more powerful before being let loose on the world? Mind, I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea that this is the motivation, but I think the fact that the Fakeless Immortal (who clearly is affiliated with Red Haze in some fashion) has been talking about changing the plans to wiping out all of Scadrial, suggests that the Shard is, in fact, evil. I'm pretty sure there are methods of evening the playing field that don't involve slaughtering several hundred million people. <edit: if that sounded offensive, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that.>

Overall, Scadrial entering the worldhopping scene is bound to make it really interesting. They are, alongside Rosharans, the only culture who has the capability to use magic on an industrial scale, and the only culture who can take their magitek with them and can find a source for their powers wherever they choose to go - Stormlight doesn't occur outside Roshar, Dor is bound to get useless away from Sel, Breaths are exclusive to Nalthians and the sand is just a normal sand without Taldain's sun. They are also the only culture with the ability to outright steal other culture's magic via Hemalurgy, and are not only furthest-advanced society, but also the most populous one. The deck is stacked pretty well in their favour. It is, frankly, no surprise that someone would want to cut them short before some sort of Pax Scadrialica happens.

Actually I was saying it would result in "The Day the Earth Stood Still". That they realized Scadrial could get technologically advanced quicker than those that are already more Cosmere aware, and when Scadrial enters the cosmere, decimate all other planets. So the entity using the Fakeless Immortals are trying to control their progress/slow it down so they can catch up and be prepared, or baring that, destroy Scadrial first. I found it interesting the parallels between the faster than light travel vs technology in Elysium, vs worldhopping and space travel. There is next to nothing to support it, just thought an interesting perspective to look at and think on. 

Spoiler

regarding white sand, for reasons I cannot write here, we do not necessarily know that to be true. 

 

Edited by Pathfinder
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On 6/25/2016 at 9:14 AM, Argel said:

Wars are a huge strain on the economy, so a society embroiled in say a century or warfare is very likely to fall behind a society with a century of investing in all of the sciences. And in a world with magic, the focus can be on improvements there instead of technology.

While I would not say you are incorrect I would say that there is historical precedent for this not being 100% accurate. Warfare is a great spur for science and industry whereas a group of people who live in relative peace and stability are at risk of being... stagnant. The tribes in the Amazon jungle, Native Americans before Europeans came, China until Europeans came, Japan until Europeans came etc. There groups had relatively stable existences and lagged behind the Europeans who had incredibly unstable existences.

Theoretically, a group who truly invested their full resources into innovation, industry and science would probably have an advantage over a group that was stuck in perpetual warfare but it seems that stable, peaceful groups do not spur themselves into mass research and production but rather become comfortable in their stability.

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On 25 June 2016 at 5:14 PM, Argel said:

Wars are a huge strain on the economy, so a society embroiled in say a century or warfare is very likely to fall behind a society with a century of investing in all of the sciences. And in a world with magic, the focus can be on improvements there instead of technology.

Wars are a huge strain but they also add incentive, in peace time there is no need to advance so people tend to stagnate, look at the progress we made in WWII compared to before and after, technology made a huge jump because we needed it to.

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On 6/24/2016 at 5:09 PM, Rasarr said:

Overall, Scadrial entering the worldhopping scene is bound to make it really interesting. They are, alongside Rosharans, the only culture who has the capability to use magic on an industrial scale....

I'd be kind of surprised if Awakening doesn't start getting used on an industrial scale soon.  In terms of raw industrial potential, awakening is pretty unmatched by other magic systems; enough Lifeless running on Giant hamster wheels could power the world (although, an Awakened turbine could, in theory, just spin itself...).  A Lord Ruler type tyrant with the infrastructure and influence to "tax" people of their Breath, or otherwise compel its citizens to relinquish their Breath could seriously accomplish some crazy feats.  Sure, everyone would be more susceptible to sickness and depression, but that's a small price to pay for an undead army of super-soldiers, factory workers, and farmers to go with your limitless supply of electricity.

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I think it would be cool to see a combination of soulcasting and stamps. I wonder how much an expert Forger could change if they could soulcast.

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