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18 minutes ago, Metacognition said:

First of all I'm just not seeing why everyone is so assured of Bard's innocence; especially people like Aman and Elenion from the Senate Doc. I'm still highly suspicious of him. That bandwagon just feels incredibly orchestrated. We had a discussion about bandwagons in LG22, where we got an Eliminator on the first day. One of the things that I said in there was that, if a bandwagon tends to form quickly and early, it can sometimes be indicative of us barking up the wrong tree. And now, we have exactly that happening right here. Then, every single vote on Bard just vanishes and people start pushing the idea that Bard is innocent. This just seems a little too coordinated for my tastes and I'm still not convinced just because Bard said that he was willing to be scanned. That could be a simple delaying tactic so that they can survive at least another turn. For every Eliminator that claims that they would like to be scanned and that we don't lynch them because of such, that makes it that much more likely that we're going to hit a Villager instead. 

If I were to go after anyone, it would likely be Elenion or Bard. I'm not buying Bard's claim that he did that just out of paranoia and a lot of what Elenion was saying in the Senate Doc makes me question his motives. There was that bit about "Gambling and lost" with his vote on Seonid earlier and he seemed a little too concerned with getting recalled out of the Senate, IMO. No one had even brought up who should be recalled yet and he was already concerned about it. Why? If he's a villager, wouldn't not being in the Senate make it even less likely that he would be a target? To me, it almost sounds like he knows that he won't be attacked and is more worried about the loss of power.

I am more than happy to explain myself. About the votes on Bard, I placed both of them in order to put pressure on him. I actually wrote a whole paragraph on my reasoning in the Senate document, and you can read the entire thing there. When I took them away it was because he had passed my test (while Cloudjumper had failed Bard's).

If I was planning something to exonerate Bard, then I probably would have made it more than a little less obvious.

The whole "gambling and lost" was simply me noting that I had used my vote in what I thought would be a formidable, 5-vote attack on Seonid, only to have it ended and my vote rendered ineffective ("lost"). I then retracted my vote to keep it open for others, taking my assets out of my failed attack. When Bard voted for Seonid, I was glad to have my vote back, but held it since Bard was not ready for something as aggressive as a bandwagoned senate vote. Besides, if it really was me planning something with the eliminators then I'd have a better doc for it! ;)

And about the caring about the senate, I was being paranoid (and I still am, though less). I was enjoying my senate position due to Aman (at least I think it was Aman)'s proposition that we keep current senators in office with bodyguards, and so losing my office became synonymous with getting murdered in the dead of night, because I am not a defense role.

Go ahead and lynch me if you want, but you won't accomplish anything except putting a much-needed villager body on the gallows.

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On 7/9/2016 at 8:00 PM, Elenion said:

I am more than happy to explain myself. About the votes on Bard, I placed both of them in order to put pressure on him. I actually wrote a whole paragraph on my reasoning in the Senate document, and you can read the entire thing there. When I took them away it was because he had passed my test (while Cloudjumper had failed Bard's).

If I was planning something to exonerate Bard, then I probably would have made it more than a little less obvious.

The whole "gambling and lost" was simply me noting that I had used my vote in what I thought would be a formidable, 5-vote attack on Seonid, only to have it ended and my vote rendered ineffective ("lost"). I then retracted my vote to keep it open for others, taking my assets out of my failed attack. When Bard voted for Seonid, I was glad to have my vote back, but held it since Bard was not ready for something as aggressive as a bandwagoned senate vote. Besides, if it really was me planning something with the eliminators then I'd have a better doc for it! ;)

And about the caring about the senate, I was being paranoid (and I still am, though less). I was enjoying my senate position due to Aman (at least I think it was Aman)'s proposition that we keep current senators in office with bodyguards, and so losing my office became synonymous with getting murdered in the dead of night, because I am not a defense role.

Go ahead and lynch me if you want, but you won't accomplish anything except putting a much-needed villager body on the gallows.

We're not lynching you. We're lynching Conq.

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10 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

 

22 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

EDIT: Mek, can you get repeal and elect the same senator on the same night?

For curiosity's sake, what was your intent in asking this? Usually I ask a question if the answer has an impact on a genuine strategy but, I can't really see the benefit on repealing and electing a Senator simultaneously.

OK, I'll just address this very quickly before I go, as it's the only thing (that I saw) that was directly addressed to me. General thoughts and anything I missed will be addressed when I return.

There was actually a very good reason for me asking this. Senators are immune to kills on the night they are elected, so I was trying to work out whether it would be possible to give a confirmed villager the power of continued immunity (because, as El said, being a confirmed villager paints a target on their heads. The only way for them not to be killed and to have them as a Senator is to repeal and re-vote them in on the same night.)

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Conquestor was lynched! He was A Mysteries Cultist Landlord!

Conquestor (9): Bard, Straw, Cloud, Aman, Elenion, Ecthelion, Senate vote
Cloudjumper (2): Eramit, Lime
Aman (1): El
Elodin (1): Jaime
Elenion (1): Meta

Cloudjumper was inspected by the senate! His role and alignment will be revealed to a random senator!

A senate Recall will take place this cycle. NO election will take place.

Player List:

 
1. Elbereth- "Name to come"
2. Mailliw- Reomaim
3. Cloudjumper- Kelron
4. The Young Bard- The Mysterious Figure
5. Ecthelion III- Aeleus
6. Orlok- Locke
7. Elodin- oaR
8. Straw- Straw
9. Conquestor- Lorienthe
10. Eramit- Kolokolo Kolo
11. Metacognition- Meta
12. emilylime- Lime
13. Eolhandras- Eolhandras
14. Elenion- Ashkelon
15. Sart- Sart
16. Jaimelecee- Jaena
17. Amanuensis- Opalin
18. Seonid- Sheon Idris
19. Kipper- Kipper
Edited by Alvron
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"It was almost nightfall when Ashkelon arrived back at his house. He had spent a long day at the senate, but it had seemed shorter due to all of the excitement. He himself had never believed in the wild rumors about the Jeskeri Cult, but he was proved wrong when, after a long day of inquisitions and testimony, Lorienthe admitted to membership. 'Holy kolo!' Ashkelon thought as the unfortunate cultist was led away to be executed, 'If this keeps up it could really affect my investments!" Never once did Ashkelon fear for his life, but he feared for his money every minute.'

For convenience, here's the senate kolos: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fdCOQLGqPIrCEC5nbBxGz34hdYPfDs1Gj4TRrg4uwGM/edit?usp=sharing (don't worry, it's not a rickroll, kolo?)

Edited by Elenion
Typo
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Is "El" Elbereth, Elenion, or Elodin? :P

Aeleus strode down the city's main thoroughfare. As he approached the town square, he was shocked to see a lynch mob gathered around poor Lorienthe, waving torches and pitchforks and constructing--was that a gallows?

Aeleus shook his head and kept walking. And they thought he was the violent one!

Edited by Ecthelion III
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On 7/9/2016 at 8:48 PM, Ecthelion III said:

Is "El" Elbereth, Elenion, or Elodin? :P

Aeleus strode down the city's main thoroughfare. As he approached the town square, he was shocked to see a lynch mob gathered around poor Lorienthe, waving torches and pitchforks and constructing--was that a gallows?

Aeleus shook his head and kept walking. And they though he was the violent one!

I think El is Elbereth. He said in the senate doc that he preferred El over Elb.

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Well that is a welcome surprise. At least that explains all the votes on him. Since he was an inactive member, I won't be surprised at all if the Cultists tossed him under the bus, as it were. I'll bet that there are one or two that voted for him in the hopes of clearing themselves to a degree.

And unless I'm mistaken, it looks like a landlord moved their anonymous vote onto him as well. That's a lot of people that wanted a "random" inactive dead, IMO. Just seems a little too easy. 

 

As far as the Senators go, I think that each one should make a case for themselves before we vote. That way, if there is an Eliminator Senator (which I do think there is, considering my suspicions) and they want to stay in their position of power, they have to try to convince us to leave them in there. That way, if someone is trying too hard, they might be a Cultist. 

But as I said during the day, I don't trust Elenion much at all right now. If he or someone else in the Senate gives me a reason to want to change this, I will, but this is where I'd go for now. So in the infamous words of Jack Sparrow, Persuade me.

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11 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Well, to be fair to Orlok, the reason everyone died was because of me and my decision to take the concept of an Anarchist way too far :P so I wouldn't really hold that against him.

Can you elaborate on the "placing myself above the rest of the players" portion of your explanation a bit? That's the only part I'm really confused on. As for the "us Dulas" thing, I completely understand that interpretation, and really have no solid ground to argue on. While I can promise that was not my intent, I know that words are just wind, so that'll do nothing to sway your opinion. All I can say is I hope you consider my actions as much as you consider one example of phrasing. Now, in regards to the bit about trust, in my opinion, I was only stating a solid fact about this game that normally doesn't apply to others. Plus, with all of the brand new players and the chance that one of them started out with a role like Kesegan Monk, it just seemed like something worthy of mentioning. The point I was trying to make is that if I help lynch a Derethi today, that doesn't mean I'm a Dula. I could very well be Jeskeri myself, and therefore I, and no one else, should gain absolute trust without first being investigated by the senate. In the case that a player was instrumental in killing both a Derethi and Jeskeri, I could see that being enough reason to trusting them completely, but until that happens I'm going to advise caution. Once again, I do not expect to live long. If we keep the Senate stagnate as it is, it should be impossible for the Jeskeri to win without removing us themselves, and considering I was the one who proposed the idea I fully expect to be their first target. I doubt the Derethi will want to keep me alive for very long either, so all I'm trying to do is put all of my thoughts on paper (or in this case, in data?) so that people have things to reference when I'm no longer around.

:P Point. Would you prefer that I focus on his attempt to take over the government and become a tyrant? :P Because that's so much more of a comfort.

Yeah. I was referring to the "While I'm alive, I'll endeavor to remind everyone" etc etc etc. Putting yourself in a position of authority. Kolo? :P

And I'm certainly considering your actions as much as those phrasings, don't worry. I don't think I'm tunneling on you yet. 

9 hours ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

I'm going to be controversial. Again. No doubt I do myself no favours, but I think it bears discussion.

I would advocate we cease discussion in the Senate doc entirely. It's publicly viewable, and so information can't be hidden there, but it functions in such a manner as to limit engagement from those of us who are not senators with things said in the doc. 

I can see no harm in holding the conversation that would occur in the doc on thread, and advantages present in both keeping track of when comments are made chronologically and with regards to facilitating responses.

Clearly, Senate votes need to be posted there, but even the explanations for the votes can be made here without any harm.

I'm completely fine with this, hypocritical though it might be to say. (Because I will still be using the doc. I practically guarantee it. But I'll try to use the thread as much as possible for actual discussion.)

3 hours ago, cloudjumper said:

I think El is Elbereth. He said in the senate doc that he preferred El over Elb.

*She, but yes. :) That'd be me. 

I'm... I mean, I'm happy, but also kinda frustrated? exasperated? at the results of this lynch. This is the third time in a row, practically, that we've lynched an eliminator D1. LG22, QF16, and now this. I'm not going to complain, but... it really doesn't feel like we've earned it. No one was suspicious of Con. No one lynched him because he'd slipped up or been scanned or anything. No, it was pure chance (and possibly some help from his eliminator friends). 

Maybe that's just me. 

As for why I shouldn't be demoted: Well, I don't know. I don't mind being recalled, though I wouldn't particularly prefer it. I'd use the fact that I'll be consistently active, but actually everyone currently in there is generally active (obviously can't tell with Elenion, but seems active enough at the moment). So. There's that. 

Also: I received Cloud's results. He's a Village Duelist.  So there's some more good news. 

I should post once or twice more in the cycle. (I'm saying this mostly so that I actually do force myself to post.) For now, I'm going to sleep. 

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Actually, El, since I want to catch you before you go to sleep, you were one of the people I wanted to ask something.

You said you found Eramit suspicious because of the rapid change in his vote on me, and then reversing it. The think is, I did almost the exact same thing in LG22, and nearly got lynched for it at one point in the day, except for the fact that you were one of my strongest defenders. What makes this situation different to the situation in LG22?

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That you find me suspicious for voting and immediately revoking in LG22? (Background for those who didn't play LG22 here) Elb defends me at various points, but I'm trying to find a post that summarizes it.

Uhhh... I'm searching through the thread now. I'll add the link in the moment I find it (LG22 was so busy...) Hopefully I'll have it before you go to bed.

That you found Eramit suspicious? Here.

Quote

You put your vote on Bard and then retracted without anyone's input. To me, that spells "more experienced people in your doc telling you to vote for someone else". I'm not voting for you because I don't want you to die D1, and I don't want to vote if I don't want who I'm voting for to be lynched, but I regard that as suspicious. (And yes, I saw your explanation. It didn't change my opinion.) 

That's all I have for now. I should be on in the couple of hours before turnover, but I can't guarantee anything before that, and if I do check in it'll likely be in the Senate doc rather than a post, because that's easier for me. Sorry to those who can't talk in there. :( That does not sound fun. 

Edited by The Young Bard
Why is everything going into the qoute box? Grrr...
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Yep, I mean link from LG22. I don't remember you doing that. At all. What I would guess is just that you provided reasonable... oh. Don't bother. I remember. Essentially the difference is that you provided convincing reasoning afterwards, I guess? And Eramit's reasoning did not convince me. Which isn't really much, I know, but it's also 12:30 in the morning, so... I'm not necessarily at my most coherent. 

I'll probably explain a bit more in the morning, but yeah, you don't have to go find that if you don't want to. I remember what you're talking about. 

Edited by Elbereth
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The whole thing stinks from Derethi involvment: few hours before Cloudjumper is being lynched suddenly few people vote to lynch cnoq and Cloud says he is a Duelist - which cant be proved because the senator can always lie about the result and suddenly people adress his words like a fact. It looks to me like the Derethi tryed to cover their friend while putting someone else in the spotlight which (luckily for us) was from the cultists.

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