Long Game 23: The Siege of Luthadel

[Mailliw73]

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

I don't remember saying that teammates shouldn't claim their roles to each other  in fact, I swear I just argued the opposite.

Right, that was Nyali. 

[Amanuensis]

13 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

Right, that was Nyali. 

No worries our posts happened right after one another's and discussed very similar things.

[STINK]

^ Clearly planned both of their posts in the same doc because they are in the same faction.

[Paranoid King]

7 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

As it turned out, he didn't have to wait long. Only a couple minutes later, a rustling at the side of the stall announced another newcomer to the back of the store. Ranel looked up. "This had better be good." The figure looked up, a smile just barely visible on their face. "Trust me. It is."

Shady grinned, hoping to put Ranal at ease.

"Trust me. It is. You obviously can't stand skaa. Neither can I. They don't have enough money to spend on my goods, but are too proud to work for me. Things were better when the Lord Ruler was in charge."

Ranal shifted from one foot to the other. "Where are you going with this?"

Shady leaned forward, eyes glimmering. "A new ruler will rise to power. The fool Elend cannot hope to stand before him. Support him, and you may find yourself in a high position."

Ranal snorted. It might have been a laugh. "And this ruler's name?"

Shady coughed, holding out his hand. "You know I would tell you. But I have a horrible affliction. My memory fades unless I am touching no less than...8 boxings worth of gold. My sincere apologies."

[Renegade]

More question-answering:

• There is only one Steel Inquisitor. 
• You will not be informed if someone used copper, bronze, iron, or brass on you.
• You will be informed if you were attacked (as well as whether you were attacked by Flared Steel or koloss) and survived.
• A smoker will not be informed if a seeker attempts to scan them or the other player in their coppercloud, or if someone pierces the coppercloud.
• If an attacking koloss is defeated by a player Burning Pewter, the attacking faction will not be informed that this occurred. However, the player Burning Pewter will be informed that they killed an opposing koloss.
• A Spiked coinshot kill will be indistinguishable from a non-Spiked coinshot kill.

Also, remember that you may not copy/paste information from PMs (your role PM or tin conversations) anywhere else, including the thread and your faction doc.  You are allowed to paraphrase information.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Renegade

[Amanuensis]

To Catch an Inquisitor

 

Greetings. I’m Micheal Hallowell with the 17th Shard and we’re doing an analysis of bloodthirsty Inquisitors and their Spiked compatriots. Besides giant metal nails sticking out of their eyes and / or various other parts of their bodies, there are other ways to tell when someone is dedicated to serving Ruin. If you are determined to end the Lord Ruler’s legacy once and for all, here are some great tips to help you along.

 

No matter what House an Inquisitor is hiding within they must convince their colleagues that they are innocent. The best way to accomplish this is by claiming a role and offer consistent proof. Any incident where they are unable to do so should be considered suspicious. As it stands, there are several roles that simply do not make sense for an Inquisitor to claim. This is because these same roles are incredibly easy for their teammates to keep track of. However, this does not mean they will not choose to claim that role. Due to that reasoning alone they might decide to do so anyway, but in doing so severely limit their activity.

 

Zinc is by far the easiest to be proven. Burning Zinc allows your faction to intercept a Kandra from another faction, or steal one entirely. In either case, everyone is informed. There is no potential for information manipulation here.

 

Brass is a very close second, as its results can be seen by all. If a member of your House claims Brass all they need to do is consistently change a vote every cycle, or remove a vote completely every other. It is important for them to make clear which vote they are changing ahead of time, in order to keep them from claiming the action of another House’s Soother as their own.

 

Steel is nearly as easy to prove as Brass, but only if players are willing to communicate that they were roleblocked in thread as soon as it happens. Once all roleblocks are announced in thread they can be cross-referenced with what the Coinshots told their House they would target. Flaring steel can be immediately confirmed by death, unless blocked by Iron or Pewter. In the case of Lurcher interference, that player would announce having been Roleblocked, which will confirm that the Coinshot did attempt a roleblock the previous cycle, at least. In the unlikely scenario that a target survives due to flaring Pewter, it may be critical to announce this information as well, but should be considered thoroughly first.

 

Tin can be accounted for by making sure that every time it is burned, a random player from the same faction (never the same one twice) receives one of the two anonymous messages. If Flared the Tineye should not put themselves in a PM but one of their Housemates instead. PMs should be constantly used, and with a different player every time, to prevent an Inquisitor and Spiked teammate from faking the PMs existence.

 

Iron can only be confirmed if a predetermined player is protected from an attack. Otherwise there will be no indication that they are doing anything. However, if they promise to protect a player and said player dies, it will heavily implicate them. A more likely claim than the ones prior but less likely than the ones ahead.

 

Bronze is just as hard to prove unless you have a Tineye on your team to establish a PM with the scanee, but doing so ultimately puts your faction at risk of another. One option is to have a Seeker scan a player, or series of players, then kill one of those players to confirm that they are what the Seeker says.

 

Pewter is impossible to prove without an allied Coinshot, and even then, there is the danger that they are an Inquisitor/Spiked combo. This makes Pewter one of the most ideal roles to claim.

 

Copper has the exact same danger. If your faction has a Seeker they can scan this player to confirm they are Smoked, but doing so limits the effectiveness of the Seeker and they are liable to be an Inquisitor/Spiked combo.

 

In the case of Mistborn claims, so long as their faction makes sure that they grab a different every cycle and prove it, should not be an issue. Use the specific tips for the various Mistings above to keep them accountable and you should be fine.

 

Regulars are perhaps the most dangerous, and most likely, claim for an Inquisitor. Because stealing a vial is a one time use, an Inquisitor can easily claim to receive a Vial from a metal they’re team cannot use and actually Spike a player in their faction to claim they received it. If they claim to receive a metal that someone on their faction can use, all they need to do is Spike said player with the corresponding Spike to ensure they can flare the metal even when the vial counts don’t match up. In either of these cases, treat Regulars and the player they pass to with extreme caution. It is recommend that one of, if not both, of these players are scanned as soon as possible. Also, if you are a villager and a Regular proves to you that they can pass metal, don’t trust them with absolute certainty, at least not for long. They might not be the Inquisitor but they are a prime target for being Spiked, as they no longer have to worry about being accountable for their actions. If you can, make sure that this player is scanned later on as well, if lacking additional leads.

 

In the case of Spiked, if a player is given a power more useful than their previous one, ensure that they keep proving it anyway, if possible. If they are Spiked with the same metal or continue to use their starting ability, make sure that it is being used to the benefit of the faction. Any attempt at the player going rogue should be interpreted as them admitting a change in their alignment.

In the event you find the Inquisitor or a Spiked, it is recommended that you do not attempt to negotiate with them. Always expect a servant of Ruin to have more information than your faction and a way to make sure they come out on top. Whatever benefit they might provide in the short term will more-than-likely be outweighed to the damage they can do in the long-run. Any player that encourages working with the Inquisitor / Spiked should also be heavily scrutinized by his teammates.

 

Remember that simply confirming a player once isn't enough. It is essential that everyone is consistently tested. So long as every House follows these tips and remains wary of those who they cannot confirm, the Inquisitor and his Spiked subordinates will be forced to work for us rather than against us.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Amanuensis

[TheMightyLopen]

Cant get rid of that quote box for some reason... o.O

14 hours ago, Burnt Spaghetti said:

 

 

 

Aman, I should be back to normal this weekend. So, during N1 or D2 I think.

Edited June 28, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Kipper]

Disclaimer: I hereby do not apologize for any feelings hurt or opinions maligned in the writing of this post.

@Arraenae, your idea is ridiculous. This is not a "everyone work together to kill the Spiked" game. This is a bloody faction war game, and I intend to play it as such. I will not be revealing any faction resources publicly, and I suggest that everyone else (for the good of your factions) does not either. Let's look at two different instances where we could find information. 

Instance 1: Bob reveals his faction, and his entire list of faction members, including roles, in the thread. This information is now public, and anyone can discuss it and strategize based off of it.

Instance 2: Bob tells his role to the Builder faction, and a Spiked Builder tells his/her teammates about Bob's role. Now, the Spiked have information that no one else has, and trust me on this, they WILL slip. At some point in the game, no matter how hard they try not to, they WILL overthink a plan and let some small piece of information (that they should not have) slide.

Also, revealing our factions doesn't even help our factions. I'll do my best to keep my faction private, untargeted, and alive, thank you very much. The Spiked will know the factions soon enough; I'd rather that the memberlists stay with them. Arraenae. You're smarter than this, lil bean. (And you're also not in my faction so die. )

Edited June 28, 2016 by Kipper

[Bugsy]

@Amanuensis, sorry if I misinterpreted you, but I'm not sure how a coinshot could kill every other night. Wouldn't they be able to do so every third (because they need to request 2 vials and then use them the 3rd night)?

[Amanuensis]

8 minutes ago, Bugsy6912 said:

@Amanuensis, sorry if I misinterpreted you, but I'm not sure how a coinshot could kill every other night. Wouldn't they be able to do so every third (because they need to request 2 vials and then use them the 3rd night)?

Quote

Each Allomancer receives their corresponding Allomantic vial at the end of every Night, including Night 0.  Allomancers with multiple metals available (Mistborn, Inquisitors, and Spiked) must PM the GM during the Night to choose which metal vial to receive, or they will not receive any.

I'm pretty sure only Mistborn/Inquisitors/Spiked Mistings need to request vials, and that requesting a Vial isn't an action itself / is automatic otherwise. But let me clarify with the GM. @Renegade If a Mistborn/Inquisitor/Spiked Misting has a vial of Zinc, can they intercept a Kandra and request a vial of Steel at once? Or in other words, can a player burn a metal and get a new vial in a single night turn?

I'm assuming that receiving Vials is not an action itself, but I could be wrong. If not, it would look like this.

• N0: Receive 1 Vial of Steel (1)
• N1: Receive 1 Vial of Steel (2)
• N2: Burn 2 Vials of Steel, Receive 1 Vial of Steel (1)
• N3: Receive 1 Vial of Steel (2)

And so on, so forth.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Amanuensis

[jaimeleecee]

I exist! (Is that enough to earn a boxing)

Just in case it's not I will add my opinion to a couple of things I saw: @Amanuensis thanks for that helpful strategy guide, is that to ensure we don't suspect you?? Kidding! (Maybe..)  But I digress, I like the idea of organized chaos by only killing certain nights.  Its a fair point that the inquisitor could use that to cover up a spiked but it would reduce the amount of killings a bit.  

I also agree that we cannot focus solely on faction to faction stuff and hope we catch eliminators in the process, we should be thinking about the inquisitor and spiked as much as possible since they can infiltrate all of us and destroy from within as well as through kills.

Uh.. other than that I'm excited to see how this all plays out! Happy hunting!

[Nyali]

Aman, remember that Seekers get told if their target is Spiked, so if your faction happens to have a Seeker, the Seeker can test other members of your faction to check if any are Spiked. But, if the Seeker claims and is Spiked themself, well, then you have a problem.

[Arrae]

1 minute ago, Nyali said:

Aman, remember that Seekers get told if their target is Spiked, so if your faction happens to have a Seeker, the Seeker can test other members of your faction to check if any are Spiked. But, if the Seeker claims and is Spiked themself, well, then you have a problem.

Ah, the classic eliminator scanner gambit. Another problem is if someone is Seeked, then Spiked, which could lead to some misplaced trust and the Spiked getting more information.

[Renegade]

Receiving a vial is not an action, so yes, a player with multiple types of metals can use one and then request a different vial at the same time.

[Nyali]

8 minutes ago, Bugsy6912 said:

@Amanuensis, sorry if I misinterpreted you, but I'm not sure how a coinshot could kill every other night. Wouldn't they be able to do so every third (because they need to request 2 vials and then use them the 3rd night)?

Requesting vials is free. Everyone who can use at least one metal gets exactly one vial and has to choose which, but it does not take an action to do so. Actually obtaining the requested vial happens at the very end of the Order of Actions, so you can't use a vial on the turn you receive it.

So, if you were a Steel Misting, Aman's list shows what would happen.

If you were then Spiked with Tin, then you could do:

N0: Obtain Steel Vial
N1: Burn Steel, Obtain Steel Vial
N2: Obtain Steel Vial
N3: Obtain Steel Vial
N4: Obtain Tin Vial
N5: Burn Tin, Flare Steel, Obtain Steel Vial

For a Mistborn, they can't get the same vial twice, so for them it'd look like:

N0: Obtain Steel Vial
N1: Burn Steel, Obtain Iron Vial
N2: Burn Iron, Obtain Tin Vial
N3: Obtain Pewter Vial
N4: Obtain Duralumin Vial
N5: Burn Tin, Burn Pewter+Burn Duralumin=Flare Pewter, Obtain Zinc Vial

For an Inquisitor, they work like a Mistborn, but can only choose metals they have spikes for and CAN choose the same one as many times as they want:

Example Spikes: Steel, Iron, Tin, Pewter, Copper
N0: Spike Iron, Obtain Steel Vial
N1: Spike Copper, Obtain Steel Vial
N2: Flare Steel, Spike Steel, Obtain Pewter Vial
N3: Obtain Pewter Vial
N4: Flare Pewter, Spike Tin, Obtain Pewter Vial
N5: Obtain Pewter Vial

[Nyali]

6 minutes ago, Arraenae said:

Ah, the classic eliminator scanner gambit. Another problem is if someone is Seeked, then Spiked, which could lead to some misplaced trust and the Spiked getting more information.

Well, sure, but the strategies Aman suggested for confirming someone's role have the same problem. Also, in a Conversion game, negative scans aren't very meaningful, but those aren't what you're fishing for. You're fishing for positive scans, and those are VERY meaningful. So, if you scan someone and they're not spiked, well, maybe they are and maybe they aren't. They could have been spiked that round (it comes later than scanning in the order of actions), or they could have been behind a coppercloud. But, if you scan someone and they ARE spiked, well, then they're definitely spiked.

[Amanuensis]

35 minutes ago, Nyali said:

Aman, remember that Seekers get told if their target is Spiked, so if your faction happens to have a Seeker, the Seeker can test other members of your faction to check if any are Spiked. But, if the Seeker claims and is Spiked themself, well, then you have a problem.

Oh, I know. Which is why I suggest that "Regulars" get scanned to prove they aren't an Inquisitor / aren't Spiked, as they have the greatest chance at being able to hide their actions for shady doing, which is ideal so long as the previously mentioned strategies are adhered to. The thing is Seeker roles can easily be compromised, or even lied about. An Inquisitor claiming Seeker isn't going to out a teammate unless they're crazy. If they scan someone in their own faction and that player said their role openly without lying, they can just support their claim. A way to catch this is if your House DOES have a Seeker, ya'll can make sure he confirms it by scanning unclaimed players and have them confirm its accuracy, but I don't believe this is an ideal strategy because A: He can just spike that player to falsely confirm them and B: because I believe that Housemates need to be cooperating with another sooner rather than later if they want to win. If you make the Seeker scan outside the group I already presented a plan to catch them in any lies. It only really helps early on, though, because by N3 it's very likely there will be a Spiked in each faction and therefore every role will be known by them. Thing is, that isn't really an issue so long as each House keeps their team accountable. Which is the entire thing I was arguing earlier.

14 minutes ago, Nyali said:

Well, sure, but the strategies Aman suggested for confirming someone's role have the same problem. Also, in a Conversion game, negative scans aren't very meaningful, but those aren't what you're fishing for. You're fishing for positive scans, and those are VERY meaningful. So, if you scan someone and they're not spiked, well, maybe they are and maybe they aren't. They could have been spiked that round (it comes later than scanning in the order of actions), or they could have been behind a coppercloud. But, if you scan someone and they ARE spiked, well, then they're definitely spiked.

That's the only real merit; if a Seeker finds a Spiked. If that happens then awesome. Otherwise I wouldn't recommend trusting a Seeker more than you would a talking snake in Eden.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Arrae]

1 hour ago, Kipper said:

Disclaimer: I hereby do not apologize for any feelings hurt or opinions maligned in the writing of this post.

@Arraenae, your idea is ridiculous. This is not a "everyone work together to kill the Spiked" game. This is a bloody faction war game, and I intend to play it as such. I will not be revealing any faction resources publicly, and I suggest that everyone else (for the good of your factions) does not either. Let's look at two different instances where we could find information. 

Instance 1: Bob reveals his faction, and his entire list of faction members, including roles, in the thread. This information is now public, and anyone can discuss it and strategize based off of it.

Instance 2: Bob tells his role to the Builder faction, and a Spiked Builder tells his/her teammates about Bob's role. Now, the Spiked have information that no one else has, and trust me on this, they WILL slip. At some point in the game, no matter how hard they try not to, they WILL overthink a plan and let some small piece of information (that they should not have) slide.

Also, revealing our factions doesn't even help our factions. I'll do my best to keep my faction private, untargeted, and alive, thank you very much. The Spiked will know the factions soon enough; I'd rather that the memberlists stay with them. Arraenae. You're smarter than this, lil bean. (And you're also not in my faction so die. )

Disclaimer: I hereby do not apologize for any persons accused in the writing of this post.

@Kipper, where did I mention factions giving up info to the thread, let alone giving up memberlists? I only suggested trying to kill the Inquisitor first, which would save us all headaches from wondering if we can trust our own Housemates.

Also, this is a night cycle, so votes don’t count. You’re smarter than this, lil Kipper-wipper. Are you trying to make a strawman out of my post? (And you’re not in my faction either, so have a pointless return vote. )

Edited June 28, 2016 by Arraenae
Added a disclaimer

[Master Elodin]

Nyali and Aman, you guys seem to be talking to each other a lot.. you're probably in the same faction. Anyways, I'll go ahead and claim Coinshot, partly or possibly wholly to annoy Nyali.

 

EDIT: Yay! Let's kill Kipper!

Edited June 28, 2016 by Master Elodin

[Amanuensis]

2 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

Nyali and Aman, you guys seem to be talking to each other a lot.. you're probably in the same faction. Anyways, I'll go ahead and claim Coinshot, partly or possibly wholly to annoy Nyali.

Uh. Did you even consult your team before claiming in thread? If not, I suspect they might extremely upset with you right now.

[Nyali]

4 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

Nyali and Aman, you guys seem to be talking to each other a lot.. you're probably in the same faction. Anyways, I'll go ahead and claim Coinshot, partly or possibly wholly to annoy Nyali.

Why would that annoy me? I requested that people not claim in their faction doc about being coinshots. True claiming Coinshot here is just asking to be killed by an enemy coinshot because either you get spiked and are a spiked and need to die, or you are the faction kill of a hostile faction and killing you removes your faction's ability to kill outside of Koloss.

[Master Elodin]

Just now, Amanuensis said:

Uh. Did you even consult your team before claiming in thread? If not, I suspect they might extremely upset with you right now.

If you couldn't tell, that was a joke claim. But if you want to take me seriously then that's fine too.

[Amanuensis]

Just now, Master Elodin said:

If you couldn't tell, that was a joke claim. But if you want to take me seriously then that's fine too.

Don't scare me like that! You're always hard for me to read. Please do refrain from making my job harder than it needs to be.

[Master Elodin]

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

Don't scare me like that! You're always hard for me to read. Please do refrain from making my job harder than it needs to be.

Heh. Too bad. Go form an analysts union or something, then I might help.

[STINK]

Please don't have an analysts union there'd be so much writing and they'd never agree on anything!