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frozndevl

Aluminum and soulcasting

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Can't pull up my book, but I remember in WoR they mention that aluminum can only come from soulcasting. To me, this was an interesting statement as for the most part, we've seen that aluminum is more of a block on magic than a result. Are there any ramifications to this? I haven't been able to come up with any.

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Roshar is poor in metals. Aluminum was insanely rare even on Scadrial, a planet very rich of metals and aluminum requires advanced purification methods (unless you mine it from the inside of the volcano, like they did in Final Empire).

So the only source of aluminum would be obviously Soulcasting.

Now, I don't know how it works with the strange qualites of aluminum... But remember that there are Trueselfs who have aluminiumminds and they have no problem with it and that there are (possibly) aluminium spikes. On the other hand, it cannot be affected by Allomancy even though it's an Allomantic metal.

tl;dr: Aluminium is rare and very weird.

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Roshar is poor in metals. Aluminum was insanely rare even on Scadrial, a planet very rich of metals and aluminum requires advanced purification methods (unless you mine it from the inside of the volcano, like they did in Final Empire).

So the only source of aluminum would be obviously Soulcasting.

Now, I don't know how it works with the strange qualites of aluminum... But remember that there are Trueselfs who have aluminiumminds and they have no problem with it and that there are (possibly) aluminium spikes. On the other hand, it cannot be affected by Allomancy even though it's an Allomantic metal.

tl;dr: Aluminium is rare and very weird.

 

Has there been a WoB saying that aluminum is actually a rare metal on Scadrial? Because even on Earth, before the refining process was discovered, aluminum was by far the most expensive metal on the planet, despite being one of the most common metals generally (due to the fact that no one could extract it from bauxite--its ore--reliably, and thus one had to rely on very rare pure deposits of it).

 

I imagine that since Scadrial is an Earth analogue, its general composition is about the same, which will probably yield interesting results in the Modern- and Sci-fi trilogies after the Bayer process is discovered.

Edited by Three1415
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IIRC Scadrial actually has higher metal content than Earth . . .

I won't think that the aluminum bizarreness would kick in until after the aluminum starts existing, and aluminum interacts with both feruchemy as a whole and burning properly, so it being possible to soulcast isn't too unbelievable.

But can you soulcast aluminum into something else?

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But can you soulcast aluminum into something else?

I bet that since aluminium (I'm American and my fingers still wanted to type it that way) is an effective guard against Shardblades that once it is created it can't be soulcast. Just restricted to normal metallurgy at that point. No basis for this belief.

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1. It's unlikely the guards are aluminum. Zahel expressly says, "No one knows what this metal is," yet people clearly know what aluminum is.

 

2. I have a further question no one seems to be posing. If it can only be made via soulcasting, how did people on Roshar know to Soulcast it? Jasnah couldn't Soulcast jam because she'd heard it described but never experienced it. How was someone on Roshar able to Soulcast something into aluminum without knowing aluminum was possible? I expect simple world-hopping is the answer, but who knows.

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1. It's unlikely the guards are aluminum. Zahel expressly says, "No one knows what this metal is," yet people clearly know what aluminum is.

 

2. I have a further question no one seems to be posing. If it can only be made via soulcasting, how did people on Roshar know to Soulcast it? Jasnah couldn't Soulcast jam because she'd heard it described but never experienced it. How was someone on Roshar able to Soulcast something into aluminum without knowing aluminum was possible? I expect simple world-hopping is the answer, but who knows.

 

"Wisdom of the Heralds" seems like as good an explanation as any.  I'm pretty sure if they aren't worldhoppers, they know (and know they know) worldhoppers.

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In the end if the guards are made of Alluminium, Zahel have to recognize the metal.... But of course He may refuse to spread this information.

 

But it seems to me unlikely that the guards are Alluminium made for 2 reason, one worthless and one worthy:

- This doesn't fit my Alluminium's oddity theory (this is the worthless one  :ph34r:  )

- If they may create Alluminium and Alluminium stops Shardblades, you may see all the nations began to mass produce Allumin to stop the overpowered Shardbearer (well at least to remove their fearsome weapon)..... Of course this is the Worthy one  B)

 

PS: but if I don't remember wrong the guard adjusts itself to perfectly cover everykind of Blade. Probably it's made of whatever made the Oathgate's lock.

Edited by Yata
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The guards cannot be aluminium, IF they were and aluminium did stop shardblades aluminium armour and shields would be common, soulcasting isn't something that really has a quantity limit if you are not concerned about using a soulcaster and gems. None of the high princes bodyguard have aluminium armour or shields, they would clearly have the resources needed to get them.

Saying that I also wouldn't be surprised if shardplate turned out to be partially composed of aluminium-ceramic alloys.

Edited by Rich2244
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Okay, no idea where I got the idea that the guards were aluminum from. However, what do you think is the reason we haven't seen armor made out of the guard metal?

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Okay, no idea where I got the idea that the guards were aluminum from. However, what do you think is the reason we haven't seen armor made out of the guard metal?

I think there was a WoB about the shardblade guards and aluminium, but I don't remember if it was RAFO'd or if we got some hint...

Anyway, one reason might be that the guards are relics, and that no one knows how to make them anymore.

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Okay, no idea where I got the idea that the guards were aluminum from. However, what do you think is the reason we haven't seen armor made out of the guard metal?

Probably because they can't produce it and the guard itself can't be melted or changed.

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Also, it would only be good armor against Shardblades. It is described as soft and pliable. It didn't sound like it would stop a swordblow.

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The WoB about aluminum and shardblade guards was that the questioner was on the right track.

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The WoB about aluminum and shardblade guards was that the questioner was on the right track.

yeah but knowing Mister Sanderson, this may mean... "everything XD" ... May be "Yeah the Guards are made of Alluminium" or "You are right searching on thing that may resist Investiture".

 

In the end, and I am an idiot to think it just now... the guards may be everything high invested, for example Metalminds with the right form.

 

For years I joked with a Friend of mine of a Duel between a Shardbearer and a Windwhisper (Tin Ferring) who fight with a Tin Sword while he store all his Smell sense... He may create alone a tons of Anti-Shardblade weapons or objects.

 

My first question to mister Sanderson:

 

 

  1. Could a filled (fully feruchemical charge) metalmind block a Shardblade (or at least, resist a bit)?

  2. If a Ferring creates a metalmind and then loses his power (for example through Hemalurgy), could he still use his previous-mademetalmind ?

  3. Is the way to unlock Feruchemy to have the same amount of ruin and preservation investiture (or at least a quite balance in them) ? If the answer is Yes, could a Scadrial Human unlock it by ingest tiny piece of Atium ?

  1. Yes, it could. Excellent question.
  2. No, he could not. And, unfortunately, the person who stole a bit of his soul would probably be keyed with enough Identity to use hismetalmind.  :( (This is uncertain, though, based on how much of the soul got ripped off, and how much the spike has decayed.)
  3. RAFO.

 

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I have a theory that the guards aren't technically stopping the shardblades. It could be that the guards somehow pinch to the flat of the blade, in such a way that the edge never actually touches the metal. Pretty much how lastclapping works.

They'd still be 'magical', since they change shape and would need to pinch really tightly to withstand the force of two blades clashing, but the metal itself wouldn't be what stopped the blade.

Though if this was true it would be a hassle to put on the guards, so that would probably have been mentioned...

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I have a theory that the guards aren't technically stopping the shardblades. It could be that the guards somehow pinch to the flat of the blade, in such a way that the edge never actually touches the metal. Pretty much how lastclapping works.

They'd still be 'magical', since they change shape and would need to pinch really tightly to withstand the force of two blades clashing, but the metal itself wouldn't be what stopped the blade.

Though if this was true it would be a hassle to put on the guards, so that would probably have been mentioned...

To be honest is the thing I though when I read the books... but then someone here on the forum made me notice that the guards has something strange and I began to think differently.

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If aluminum is so "immune" for lack of a better word to most forms of investiture, could it have had something to do with the killing of Adonalsium?

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If aluminum is so "immune" for lack of a better word to most forms of investiture, could it have had something to do with the killing of Adonalsium?

May be or not be connected.

The problem here is about "why is the Alluminium so Investiture-oddly ?" and if we don't understand this is hard to find its interation in many Magic Systems or situations

For example I have a theory, but I haven't enough "cases" of Alluminium's Interaction to test it.

Edited by Yata
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Aluminum seems like the perfect Adonalsium weapon, for a few reasons:

 

It is essentially invisible to Ruin and Preservation, so Adonalsium probably wouldn't have seen the weapon.

 

It is immune to soulcasting, so Adonalsium wouldn't have been able to make the weapon into something else.

 

It is extremely rare, so Adonalsium wouldn't have been able to plan ahead for an aluminum attack, because he might not have seen it before.

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Aluminum seems like the perfect Adonalsium weapon, for a few reasons:

 

It is essentially invisible to Ruin and Preservation, so Adonalsium probably wouldn't have seen the weapon.

 

It is immune to soulcasting, so Adonalsium wouldn't have been able to make the weapon into something else.

 

It is extremely rare, so Adonalsium wouldn't have been able to plan ahead for an aluminum attack, because he might not have seen it before.

Actually Ruin and Preservation was Metalblind ON SCADRIAL because there the Metals are gateway for power and glows in the Cognitive Realm... The same thing will happen to everyone on the Scadrial's Cognitive realm... On other place (for example Yolen) they will see normal metals (They would have problem with Yolen's Focus... whatever it is).

And actually Alluminium is pretty common...just it need an advanced tech to extract it (just saw how much is cheap on Earth) and remember that Adonalsium probably created the whole Cosmere from his Investitute/power... I don't think He may not know the Alluminium and its proprieties.

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And also, metal glows like mad on Zcadrial anyway. They can't visualize its appearance that way but you'll have to be in the Beyond to not notice that next to you.

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Adonalsium probably was in the Beyond. But I see your point!

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You can't get killed if you're already dead.

Even the shards can't go in there or even see what it's like. Adonalsium was very much a living entity.

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