16/05/16 Kammererite-Festival of Olena Sub 1 of 4 (V,D,G*)

[Kammererite]

Hi All,

This is the first part of a fantasy novelette I wrote. It is meant to be stand alone; however it  uses the same characters and world from my Novella Essence of Fire.

 

This story is also a reboot of something I submitted near the start of the year. So if you read that try and forget it as this is the new beginning.

 

All comment are welcome,

However my major question/concern is the pacing and weather the beginning is interesting to keep you reading.

 

G*: i am really bad at editing so i’ll putt a grammer warning on this

[kais]

Overall

I've read a number of ball/intrigue fantasy books, so I am game for a fair bit of introduction, names, and dialogue. This had the start of that, but in order to really hook my interest, I would have liked more world building stuck in - world building that keeps my interest, like 'so and so is heir apparent to the unicorn mines of Kessel' or something like that. There were bits of this showing through - wings and such, but because the beginning has such a slow start, and the intrigue doesn't really have tension, I found myself bored.

 

Pacing

I think it is less about pacing and more about building. The pace is right for what you are trying to achieve, but the world is sparse. Flushing out characters, backstories, blocking - and not necessarily by adding more words but by making the words you do have really count, would help a lot.

 

As I go notes

- I've acquired a number of languages due to my living around the world, and after the first paragraph all I can think is "I see. A 'k' language. Hmmm.... gonna be throaty." *proceeds to practice throaty k sounds*

- Warlocks smell like blood and poo?  Warlocks need more frequent baths then. Somebody please inform the warlock council.

- page 2 - 'there' should be 'they're'

- at page three, the excessive adjective use is starting to toss me from the narrative. Run-on sentences are starting to creep up with increasing frequency as well

- The dialogue exchanges on page 5 are jumpy and muddled. I'm having to reread several times to understand what is being said

- Page 6, the multitude of character names is overwhelming. When this happens in books, I generally stop reading names altogether. 

- Page 7, blood hunting and blood farms pique my interest

- page 8, a 'herd' is a group of animals, 'heard' is when someone hears you

- Page 9, the liquid is pulsing? Actually pulsing? That's disturbing

- page 11, "...a female guard with a single silver spear pin on his crisp white uniform..." male guard, or did you intend to use the 'her' pronoun? Although if this was intentional by some change and you're changing up gendered pronouns, count me on board!

- the italics on the here at the end of the chapter don't quite ring true. The chapter could use a snappier end sentence

 

Thanks for sharing! The wing part has me intrigued, so I look forward to reading more!

[krystalynn03]

Hey Kammererite,

 

First of all your *G label was a good one. It had me pondering until I read your explanation.

 

You didn't put any specific requests for feedback and judging by the level of polish on this piece, I've decided to give you alpha reader style feedback and not focus in on anything specific.

 

Things I Liked

 

• You began with ice sculptures; that was a cool first image
• Paragraphs are short and action (though there's not enough of it) flows; your prose doesn't drag
• Dialogue sounds like folks talking for the most part, not bulky or like a narrator mouthpiece

 

Things That Need Work

 

• Conflict & Character: There are too many characters too fast, and I think this is happening because this feels discovery written, like you're pulling in people and characters to see if they turn into something later; I like to think of this as sewing seeds--sometimes they sprout sometimes they don't and if you don't like it...weed it out later
• That said I was halfway through the sub scratching my head and wondering what was going to happen
• There are too many introductions and the characters are wasting too many words on it
• Setting: the ice sculptures made me think we were at an expensive party...but then we're ordering mead...? I can't get a feel for where we are

 

In sum, keep working on wherever this going, but if this is just a cut of a first draft, you've got a lot of deep revising to do.

 

Thanks for subbing!

[Kammererite]

Thanks for reading Kasia and Krystalynn!

All of your feedback is very helpful. Below are some comments on your awesome comments.

Overall

I've read a number of ball/intrigue fantasy books, so I am game for a fair bit of introduction, names, and dialogue. This had the start of that, but in order to really hook my interest, I would have liked more world building stuck in - world building that keeps my interest, like 'so and so is heir apparent to the unicorn mines of Kessel' or something like that. There were bits of this showing through - wings and such, but because the beginning has such a slow start, and the intrigue doesn't really have tension, I found myself bored.

Interesting to hear this. I did the world-building with light brush strokes because i am prone to world-builders disease, but an invitation to buff it up is always welcome  

 

Pacing

I think it is less about pacing and more about building. The pace is right for what you are trying to achieve, but the world is sparse. Flushing out characters, backstories, blocking - and not necessarily by adding more words but by making the words you do have really count, would help a lot.

 

As I go notes

- Warlocks smell like blood and poo?  Warlocks need more frequent baths then. Somebody please inform the warlock council.

Warlocks are bad magic users. ill  world build this up a little better for it to make scene.

- at page three, the excessive adjective use is starting to toss me from the narrative. 

Gah didn't  notice i went all adjectivy, ill try and rain it in. 

 

- The dialogue exchanges on page 5 are jumpy and muddled. I'm having to reread several times to understand what is being said

I will investigate.

- Page 6, the multitude of character names is overwhelming. When this happens in books, I generally stop reading names altogether. 

When doing my edit i feared this might be an issue. I might have to find a way to introduce some of these characters later.  

- Page 7, blood hunting and blood farms pique my interest

Cool

- Page 9, the liquid is pulsing? Actually pulsing? That's disturbing

Yup.

- page 11, "...a female guard with a single silver spear pin on his crisp white uniform..." male guard, or did you intend to use the 'her' pronoun? Although if this was intentional by some change and you're changing up gendered pronouns, count me on board!

Its just a typo. Sorry for getting your hopes up.

- the italics on the here at the end of the chapter don't quite ring true. The chapter could use a snappier end sentence

Will meditate on this

 

Things I Liked

• You began with ice sculptures; that was a cool first image
• Paragraphs are short and action (though there's not enough of it) flows; your prose doesn't drag
• Dialogue sounds like folks talking for the most part, not bulky or like a narrator mouthpiece

Great to know. Thanks

 

Things That Need Work

 

• Conflict & Character: There are too many characters too fast, and I think this is happening because this feels discovery written, like you're pulling in people and characters to see if they turn into something later; I like to think of this as sewing seeds--sometimes they sprout sometimes they don't and if you don't like it...weed it out later

Yes it is mostly discovery written (although i've done a second pass and pruned >5,000 words from the entire story) however each character i introduced does have some roll to play latter. Since i have a muder mystery element i need to show all the possible suspects right away and might have gotten a tad carried away (never written a mystery before), 

• That said I was halfway through the sub scratching my head and wondering what was going to happen
• There are too many introductions and the characters are wasting too many words on it

Good point!

• Setting: the ice sculptures made me think we were at an expensive party...but then we're ordering mead...? I can't get a feel for where we are

Ill try and clarify this. however for your information, it is a fancy party although mead would be the more common drink then wine in this setting (Arcticish). If i fancyify the mead will it work better?

 

Thanks again for reading!

[krystalynn03]

I think if you give some more visual up front maybe it would help me see it as the cheaper alternative to wine, but I still think that the word mead alone is going to make the event seem less elegant, simply because of its use in vernacular and culture. The descriptions you did provide were clear enough, so I think you could add in a little more to make it easier to see. I didn't get anything to tell me that it's in an extreme cold environment. If there was some mention in there, I guess it's not enough because I didn't catch it.

 

One other nitpick, a pet peeve, I really hate it when I get character eye color in a first chapter unless it's very significant, and 99% of the time it's not. It makes me think amateur writer because it smacks of school, rather than modern literature. Just my two cents. Thanks for sharing!

[Eagle of the Forest Path]

Standalone works in an existing world are a difficult proposition. You'll have to find a balance between explaining the world enough for new readers and not so much that it becomes frustrating for those already familiar with the setting. IMO you're actually off to a decent start for that.

 

For me it's not so much the mead itself that clashes with the 'sophistication' of ice sculptures, but that people apparently drink from horns, which is awfully, uhm... 'rustic'.

I'm not sure the easiest way to resolve the inconsistency is to class up the drinks. You know your setting better than anyone, is it necessary that they be ice sculptures? Maybe wood or stone would work equally well? 

[Kammererite]

I think if you give some more visual up front maybe it would help me see it as the cheaper alternative to wine, but I still think that the word mead alone is going to make the event seem less elegant, simply because of its use in vernacular and culture. The descriptions you did provide were clear enough, so I think you could add in a little more to make it easier to see. I didn't get anything to tell me that it's in an extreme cold environment. If there was some mention in there, I guess it's not enough because I didn't catch it.

 

I'll think on the mead. There were some very small hints to the cold environment, however since this scene takes place inside a building in a city i didn't see a good way to show it. The setting should be better revealed in the next chapter.

 

One other nitpick, a pet peeve, I really hate it when I get character eye color in a first chapter unless it's very significant, and 99% of the time it's not. It makes me think amateur writer because it smacks of school, rather than modern literature. Just my two cents. Thanks for sharing!

 

Good to know, i'll keep that in mind. 

 

 

Standalone works in an existing world are a difficult proposition. You'll have to find a balance between explaining the world enough for new readers and not so much that it becomes frustrating for those already familiar with the setting. IMO you're actually off to a decent start for that.

Thanks. Nice to hear. 

 

For me it's not so much the mead itself that clashes with the 'sophistication' of ice sculptures, but that people apparently drink from horns, which is awfully, uhm... 'rustic'.

Good point. I never even though about that. 

 

I'm not sure the easiest way to resolve the inconsistency is to class up the drinks. You know your setting better than anyone, is it necessary that they be ice sculptures? Maybe wood or stone would work equally well? 

Ice feel like it fits the setting best and hints at the cold environment. Wood would be very expensive in this setting as there are not any trees (at least not locally). Stone is an option, will think on it. 

 

Thanks for Reading and commenting EagleoftheForestPath.

[rdpulfer]

Yay! Something new for Kammerite! I'm really looking forward to this.

 

- If he's so dangerous, would revelers talk so candidly behind his back? 

 

- It should be "Great, they're laughing at me" 

 

- And it should be "Inquisitor, you're meeting..."

 

- There's a little too much infodumping from Rakella, especially when Lumi enters the room. I think the reader can gather as much from Kang's reaction, and besides, it's more interesting to see why he's so nervous by her appearance. 

 

- Having read Essence of Fire, it is really cool to see Kang developed into a full-fledged knight, yet still with a good share of nervousness and quirks.

 

- "You have herd of me" should probably me "You have heard of me" (unless there are clones involved

 

- Overall, I really like this as a sequel to Essence of Fire, furthering Kang's development as a Knight while still keeping him rough about the edges. I can't wait to read more.

[Kammererite]

Thanks for reading RDP. Great grammer catches!

- If he's so dangerous, would revelers talk so candidly behind his back? 

I will think on this.  Might skew ther roomers so the ideas that most people don't think he is a real person comes across stronger.

 

- There's a little too much infodumping from Rakella, especially when Lumi enters the room. I think the reader can gather as much from Kang's reaction, and besides, it's more interesting to see why he's so nervous by her appearance. 

Good to know

 

- Having read Essence of Fire, it is really cool to see Kang developed into a full-fledged knight, yet still with a good share of nervousness and quirks.

Thanks, i was hoping it would transition well. 

 

- Overall, I really like this as a sequel to Essence of Fire, furthering Kang's development as a Knight while still keeping him rough about the edges. I can't wait to read more.

Glad you enjoyed it. 

[Robinski]

Summary below, straight into the inline comments. I'm not going to comment on the grammar. I laughed when I saw your explanation of the ‘G’ rating, but really, do you not read through submissions before you put them up? What is your strategy for correcting it, because grammar issues are rife through the whole text?

 

“examining the great tabard depicting the exile of the gods” – Okay, I had to bite on this one, since we had a whole tabard conversation a couple of weeks ago. I guess you mean tableau, or possibly even tapestry.

 

The opening of the dialogue between Kang and Rakella sounds like two young teenagers who’ve been raised on bad soap operas. It steers away from it a bit after the first two clichés, but thereafter there is a deluge of dialogue with barely any space for breath as different characters come and go. I thought that was a real pacing issue.

 

There is a lot of description, which is good up to a point, but there are a couple of places where it feels odd, and that I am reading only description and nothing else. (Krystalynn makes a good point about the eyes – I think maybe you get away with one of those).

 

Overall, I quite like being in Kang’s company again, possibly just because of the familiarity after going through Essence of Fire with him. There are good aspects and less good ones. I like the set up of an unknown murderer. There are some details that feel odd, and certain turns of phrase sound out of place because of their modernity, I think.

 

The big issue of course is the lack of correction in the submission, which makes it hard to read, for me anyway.

[Kammererite]

Thanks for reading and the feedback Robinski. Will work some more on finding an editing process that works for me.

Summary below, straight into the inline comments. I'm not going to comment on the grammar. I laughed when I saw your explanation of the ‘G’ rating, but really, do you not read through submissions before you put them up? What is your strategy for correcting it, because grammar issues are rife through the whole text?

After words grammer check, I read through the submission  twice before putting it up. Once forwards and once backwards sentence by sentence. I have a difficult time editing as i can never read what is written on the page. I always drift to autopilot and read what i intended. If you don'y me asking what is the major grammatical error i keep repeating.

 

“examining the great tabard depicting the exile of the gods” – Okay, I had to bite on this one, since we had a whole tabard conversation a couple of weeks ago. I guess you mean tableau, or possibly even tapestry.

I meant tapestry, Must have got the words confused.

 

The opening of the dialogue between Kang and Rakella sounds like two young teenagers who’ve been raised on bad soap operas. It steers away from it a bit after the first two clichés, but thereafter there is a deluge of dialogue with barely any space for breath as different characters come and go. I thought that was a real pacing issue.

Noted, and will make it less soapy.

 

There is a lot of description, which is good up to a point, but there are a couple of places where it feels odd, and that I am reading only description and nothing else. 

Good to know, will prune with shears.

[spieles]

p. 1 First line is too long - I had to read it twice. I'd split the sentence in two - also, as it stands right now, it's a bit confusing so breaking it into might help.

 

I told him not to call me that. - The full title? Or one of the specific names?

 

I found it amusing that a man with a reputation as black as his orders a drink as sweet as mead.

 

I'm curious why we get the lengthy description of "a lone man with raven hair, a trim goatee and reeks of arctic lilies. He wears a red and blue quartered tunic with the crest of the textile guild emblazoned on the front" - when the man just walks away... I'm supposing we'll be seeing him again. Also, I'm wondering why Kang felt the need to approach him instead of just nursing his honey-wine. 

 

Describing everyone's clothes is starting to be a bit much. I'm more interested in the taste of the mead, the stink of perfume, the nervous movements of the room, etc.

 

Hm. Ella and Kang's dialogue is feeling a little heavy handed to me right now. 

 

I enjoyed the explanation about milking a yeti.

 

On p. 6-7 for being inside Kang's head, I have no clue why he's getting so angry over what seems to be an honest expression of interest in his life - as opposed to all of the dishonest rumor mongering. It'd be more natural if he gave a surface explanation - and then they pried, maybe directly about his father - and that prying did not go over well.

 

So the final scene leaves me deeply curious about what's going on. Kudos.

[Kammererite]

Thanks for reading Spieles and all the great feedback. 

p. 1 First line is too long - I had to read it twice. I'd split the sentence in two - also, as it stands right now, it's a bit confusing so breaking it into might help.

Good point.

 

I told him not to call me that. - The full title? Or one of the specific names?

Mainly the title. 

 

I'm curious why we get the lengthy description of "a lone man with raven hair, a trim goatee and reeks of arctic lilies. He wears a red and blue quartered tunic with the crest of the textile guild emblazoned on the front" - when the man just walks away... I'm supposing we'll be seeing him again. Also, I'm wondering why Kang felt the need to approach him instead of just nursing his honey-wine. 

I got a little carried away, I'll cut it back (as with many other meaningless descriptions). He approaches because he was trying to be more social, I'll flag that. 

 

Describing everyone's clothes is starting to be a bit much. I'm more interested in the taste of the mead, the stink of perfume, the nervous movements of the room, etc.

Noted

 

I enjoyed the explanation about milking a yeti.

Thanks. 

 

On p. 6-7 for being inside Kang's head, I have no clue why he's getting so angry over what seems to be an honest expression of interest in his life - as opposed to all of the dishonest rumor mongering. It'd be more natural if he gave a surface explanation - and then they pried, maybe directly about his father - and that prying did not go over well.

Great Point! I will definitely adjust that.