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LG21: To Reforge a God

Background: Since the last two wars with Odium, the Cosmere has finally had peace. The 16 Shards are now able to turn again to their own pursuits - creation or destruction, as it suits their Intents. But the greatest conflict since the Shattering brews on the horizon. Hoid, the discredited leader of the 17th Shard, is rumored to have returned. The last letter he wrote since he left the Cosmere to parts unknown hinted at his desire to end the rule of the Shards entirely, and reforge that from which they Shattered. The name can be heard floating on the Rosharan highstorms. It curls with the mists in Scadrial. The colors of Nalthis whisper it to the Returned. Adonalsium.

Through the length and the breadth of the Cosmere, the message travels, leaving consternation in its wake. The final conflict of the divided Cosmere approaches. The end of the order of uncounted millennia looms. The Shards gather their forces for one last stand. Will they be able to defeat Hoid and end his goal of reforging Adonalsium once and for all? Or will Hoid take his final vengeance on that Coalition?

Only one thing is certain. The Cosmere will never be the same again.

Factions:
Shardic Coalition: For untold millennia, you have supported the rule of order in the Cosmere. Hoid and his interference has brought you only two costly wars, and the insolent fool didn't even have the decency to face his punishment for warmongering. Now, he has returned, and you must stop his plan to bring about the return of Adonalsium at any cost. The Coalition wins after killing all members of the 17th Shard, as well as Odium and Autonomy and their Champion(s)/Agent(s).

17th Shard: You have been brought into Hoid's great plan for the worlds of the Cosmere. He was there when Adonalsium was Shattered, and he intends to be there when the God is reborn. To bring his plan to fruition, you must gather up the Shards from their original holders. Unfortunately, they are not likely to surrender them peacefully. To win, you need to outnumber the members of the Shardic Coalition. (Autonomy, Odium, Survival, and any Champions of Odium/Agents of Autonomy do not count towards either faction for purposes of outnumbering.) In addition, the 17th Shard has a sudden death win condition - if at any time, members of the 17th Shard hold all 10 Unshattered Shards, the game is immediately over and they win. If Cultivation is Shattered, this sudden death win condition is no longer possible. The 17th Shard have a doc to conspire in, and have a Faction kill.

In addition, there are three Shards who have separate win conditions. These will be described in the Roles section.

Roles: All players may make up to three actions in a turn (spread out over day and night cycles). The following count as actions: using a Shardic action or investment ability, using a minor role ability or Faction kill, investing in another player, passing a Shard to another player, moving to another planet. Voting in the thread does not count as an action.
 

 


Hoid: The current leader of the 17th Shard, Hoid has collected a wide array of investiture and knowledge over the years. Hoid begins play with a list of all players who hold Shards, but not which Shards they hold. In addition, Hoid may use any of the following abilities once per turn in addition to any actions gained by other means, up to his action limit:

Roleblock: Once per night, you may roleblock a single action.
Protect: Once per night, you may protect a single player from an attack.
Redirect: You may change one player’s vote to the target of your choice.
Secret Vote: You may use an action to submit your vote as a PM.
Healing: You may use an action to gain one extra life until the end of the turn.
Scan: You may target a player and learn their investiture level, and the world it originates from.

If Hoid is invested by either Odium or Autonomy, the investment fails, as if they had tried to invest another Shard. If Hoid is invested by either Honor or Endowment, they are told that the investment failed, but Hoid steals a charge of Investiture from the Shard. If Hoid is invested by any other Shard, the investment is treated as normal. At the end of the turn, Hoid steals a charge of Investiture from the Shard that invested in him. Hoid may not hold more than one stolen charge of investiture from each Shard at a time. Once per cycle, Hoid may choose to burn a stolen charge of investiture in order to gain the investment ability of that Shard until the end of the turn. Any action taken because of a stolen investiture charge does not count towards the limit of 3 actions per turn.

Hoid may not make any kill actions, including the Faction kill.

Shards: The ten Shards of Adonalsium are roles of immense power. Each has a Shardic ability that they may use once per turn, except where noted. Some Shards have a passive ability that is always active. In addition, each Shard may choose to invest in another player at any point during the turn. That player gains the investment ability of the Shard. Investment lasts for one turn (both day and night cycle), except for the investments of Endowment, Honor, Odium, and Autonomy. At the end of the turn, the investment returns to the Shard. Attempts to invest another Shard have no effect, and the Shard will be notified of their investment’s failure. If a Shard is killed, the Shard is given to the player they invested in last turn. If they did not invest during the previous turn, the Shard goes to the player that killed them. If multiple players contributed to a kill, such as in a lynch or multiple attacks, the player that receives the Shard will be randomly chosen. In addition, a Shardholder may choose to pass their Shard to another player.

Holding Multiple Shards - A player may hold more than one Shard at a time. However, a player that holds multiple Shards may only use one Shardic action per turn, regardless of the number of Shards they hold. If they use a Shardic action, they may only invest using the same Shard. If a player holding multiple Shards does not use a Shardic action, they may invest using as many Shards as their action limit allows.

Shattered Shards - A Shard that has been killed by Odium’s Shardic ability becomes Shattered. The Shard is passed to the last player to be invested by it as normal, but that player may not use the Shardic ability, invest in another player, or pass the Shattered Shard. If the Shard did not invest during the previous turn, it is passed to a random player. The holder of a Shattered Shard counts as having been invested by that Shard, and may use the ability granted that Shard’s investee. A player who holds the Shattered Shard of Endowment, Honor, Odium, or Autonomy does not become Returned, a Champion, or an Agent if they were not already. If a player holding a Shattered Shard is killed, the Shard is removed from the game.

Win Conditions - Three Shards have separate win conditions from the other factions - Odium, Autonomy, and Survival. These win conditions apply only to the original holder of the Shard. If these Shards are passed to another player, they do not affect that player’s win condition.
 

 


Endowment (Nalthis):
Shardic Ability - May target a player during the day cycle. That player gains the minor role associated with the Shardworld they are on until the end of the following night cycle, and may use its ability once during the turn. They do not gain any items - the role is fueled completely by Endowment's power. This is in addition to any other roles the player may have. An Unshattered Shard is not affected by this action. If Endowment has not invested a player, they may not use their Shardic power.
Investment Ability - Endowment's Investee becomes a Returned upon dying. Unlike other Shards, Endowment may invest in a player that died during the last cycle. If a dead player is invested in, they become a Returned the following cycle.

Dominion (Sel):
Shardic Ability - Once per turn, during either cycle, Dominion may redirect a single action to another target. They must choose both the player to redirect and the action. If the target player may not use the chosen action, a random action is redirected instead. Dominion's ability may not be used on another Shard's Shardic Ability, although it may be used on their investment or investment ability. Dominion also may not force another player to pass a Shard.
Investment Ability - Any actions (including votes) taken by Dominion's investee cannot be blocked or redirected except by a Shardic Action. If Dominion does not invest, it may use this ability instead of its Shardic ability.

Devotion (Sel):
Shardic Ability - Each turn, during either cycle, Devotion may create up to 3 PMs. These last until Devotion chooses to end them or the Shard is passed. The PMs may have any number of people, and do not have to include Devotion. Devotion may have any number of PMs open at one time, but they may not create more than 3 in a turn. In addition, Devotion may set a time for when the PMs are created if they won't be able to be online when they want to create it.
Investment Ability - Devotion's investee is protected from the lynch. If Devotion does not invest, it may use this ability instead of its Shardic ability.

Preservation (Scadrial):
Shardic Ability - Once per game, during any cycle, Preservation may freeze the round. From the moment the ability is activated, no actions, investments, or votes will be counted during the next 72 hours. Preservation may set a time for this ability to activate if they won't be online when they want it to start. After it has been activated, Preservation may not cancel the order.
Passive Ability - Preservation has an extra life.
Investment Ability - Preservation's Investee remains in the same state as they were when the cycle started. If they were alive, they do not die. If they were dead, they may not Return. All actions targeting them fail, and all actions they take fail. This is the only role that may cause the Troll to not change sides, and the only action that fails to change the Troll’s win condition. If Preservation does not invest, it may use this ability instead of its Shardic ability.

Ruin (Scadrial):
Shardic Ability - During the Night Cycle, Ruin may target a planet for destruction. It will be revealed in the next write-up. The identities of the Shards will not be revealed. The PM for that planet will be closed, and any players on that planet will have their actions roleblocked and be randomly sent to another planet. This ability may not be used on consecutive turns, and may not be used to destroy the last planet remaining.
Investment Ability - Ruin's Investee may make a kill action. If Ruin does not invest, it may use this ability instead of its Shardic ability.

Cultivation (Roshar):
Shardic Ability - Once per turn, during either cycle, Cultivation may target player. If this player has a minor role, they gain a new set of items. If this player holds a Shattered Shard, the Shard is unshattered. If the player holds an unshattered Shard, or does not have a minor role, this ability does nothing.
Investment Ability - Cultivation's investee may redirect a single vote during the day cycle. If Cultivation does not invest, it may use this ability instead of its Shardic ability.

Honor (Roshar):
Shardic Ability - During the Night cycle, Honor may target another player to roleblock. All of their actions fail. If the target was another Shard, and their actions targeted Honor, they may not be blocked by this ability.
Investment Ability - Honor's investee becomes a Champion of Honor.

Odium (Roshar):
Shardic Ability - During the Night cycle, Odium may target another player to kill. If they do not currently have a Champion of Odium, this kill is effective against any player. If they have created a Champion of Odium, the kill only succeeds against Shards. Shards killed by Odium's ability become Shattered. A player holding Odium may not hold any other Shards.
Investment Ability - Odium's investee becomes a Champion of Odium.
Win Condition - Odium wins by Shattering all 10 Shards in the game. This condition may be met whether or not the original holder of Odium is still alive.
Secondary Win Condition - Kill all other players in the game, except your Champion.

Autonomy (Taldain):
Shardic Ability - During the Night cycle, Autonomy may choose a player to convert to the cause of freedom. The player is notified that they have been converted, but nothing else happens to them.
Investment Ability - Autonomy's investee becomes an Agent of Autonomy.
Win Condition -Autonomy wins by converting all remaining players to the cause of freedom. This condition may be met whether or not the original holder of Autonomy is still alive.

Survival (Yolen):
Passive Ability - Survival has three lives.
Investment Ability - Survival's investee gains an extra life.
Win Condition - Survival wins only if the player survives to the end of the game.



Minor Roles: A minor role has an ability that requires an item to activate. Each role starts with a certain number of items, although either a Returned or Cultivation’s Shardic ability may increase this number.
 

 


Elantrian (Sel): During the Day cycle, you may burn an Aon in order to change another player's vote. You begin the game with 3 Aons.

Awakener (Nalthis): During the Night cycle, you may drain color from a scarf in order to scan another player's investiture level. You will be told whether they have no role (normal Investiture), a minor role, a shattered Shard, or have been invested by a Shard that cycle (High Investiture), or if they hold a Shard (Shardic Investiture). You will also be told the world that the investiture comes from. You begin the game with 3 scarves.

Poisoner (Yolen): During the night cycle, you may use a vial of poison to poison another player. If you are killed, any players you have poisoned die with you. You begin the game with 1 vial of poison.

Knight Radiant (Roshar): During the night cycle, you may protect another player. If they are attacked, you may spend a charge of Stormlight in order to block the attack. You begin the game with 1 charge of Stormlight.

Mistborn (Scadrial): During the night cycle, you may target another player. If they make a kill action, you may burn a vial of metals to block their action and kill them instead. You begin the game with 2 metal vials.

Mastrell (Taldain): During the night cycle, you may target another player. If you or they are targeted by an Awakener or the Analyst, you may use a bag of sand to screen yourself from the scan. The Awakener's scarf will still be used. You begin the game with 3 bags of sand.

Trapper (First of the Sun): Your Aviar is used to protecting you from danger. However, against the power of Shards and their Invested agents, the most it can do is allow you to survive one round past the turn you are attacked for each charge of Investiture it has. Your Aviar starts with 1 charge.



Investment Roles: Invested roles are given to the Investee of Endowment, Honor, Odium or Autonomy. Unlike the Investees of other Shards, these retain the Investment of their Shard until the Shard withdraws it, or until the Shard dies. The Shard that invested them may not pass their Shard to another player without first withdrawing the investiture.
 

 


Returned (Nalthis): After dying, either to the lynch or a kill action, you remain dead for a cycle. You do not get access to the dead doc, but may not post in-thread. At the end of the cycle following your death, you return to the game for as long as Endowment remains invested in you. You no longer have your old role, but you may at any point choose to do one of the following - Roleblock another player’s action, protect another player (including from the lynch or a poison kill), remove poison from another player, or give a minor role a single item. Using one of these action kills you. At any point, if Endowment withdraws her Investiture from you (including by being killed), you lose one life at the end of the following cycle. Protection roles cannot protect against this, but extra lives such as those gained by Survival’s investee can.


Champion of Honor (Roshar): Upon becoming a Champion, you have a PM opened up with Honor. Each night cycle, you may make a single roleblock. If your target is a Shard, your roleblock does not affect any actions granted by the Shard (actions from other roles or meta roles are affected as normal). If you are killed by the Champion of Odium, Honor may no longer Invest in another player. You retain your role and PM until Honor withdraws his investment or is killed. If Honor is Shattered, you receive his Shard and remain a Champion.

Champion of Odium (Roshar): Upon becoming a Champion, you have a PM opened up with Odium. In addition, your win condition is changed to match Odium’s. Each night cycle, you may make a single kill that is effective against any non-Shard player, or against players who hold shattered Shards. If you is roleblocked by the Champion of Honor, you die and Odium is unable to invest in a new Champion. If Odium voluntarily withdraws the Investment, you cease to be a Champion, and your win condition reverts to your original one. If you are converted by an Agent of Autonomy, you lose the investment as normal and may not use your kill, but the PM is not closed and your win condition does not change unless Odium chooses to invest in another player. If Odium is killed but not Shattered, you receive his Shard, and maintain your win condition, but are no longer considered to be invested by Odium. If Odium is Shattered, you receive his Shard, but remain a Champion.

Agent of Autonomy (Taldain): Upon becoming an Agent, you have a PM opened up with Autonomy. In addition, your win condition is changed to match Autonomy’s. Any investment actions targeting you fail, and the actions of players Invested by another Shard fail if they target you (Shardic abilities and minor roles function as normal). Once per cycle, you may convert another player to be autonomous. Your converts function in all ways as Autonomy’s converts with the following exception: if a player you converted was invested by a Shard that round, they lose their Investiture. The Shard is informed that the investiture has returned to them. For one cycle following the conversion, any attempts by a shard to invest the converted player fail. If Autonomy withdraws the Investment, you cease to be an Agent, and your win condition reverts to your previous one. If Autonomy is killed but not Shattered, you receive his Shard, and maintain your win condition, but are no longer considered to be invested by Autonomy. If Autonomy is Shattered, you receive his Shard, but remain an Agent.



Meta-Roles: These are commemorative roles for LG14. When a player holding a meta-role other than The Troll or an Outed Player dies, another player is randomly chosen to receive the role, in addition to any other roles they hold at the time. Meta-roles do not use or carry investiture, and are not revealed by Awakener scans.
 

 


The Stick: Any actions directed at the Stick by Hoid are changed into kill actions. The Stick starts out with another minor role.

The Scapegoat: During the day, if the person who is lynched voted for the scapegoat, the scapegoat is lynched instead. The scapegoat starts out with another minor role.

The Troll: Any actions targeted on the Troll cause them to switch alignment. This is cumulative, so multiple actions will cause them to switch multiple times in the cycle. The alignment is counted for scans, for outnumbering purposes, and for any other purpose that it might be needed in except for win conditions. The Troll’s only win condition is to survive the game.

The Puppetmaster: During the day cycle, you may target two players. One of the following things happens, at your discretion. Either the players have their roles switched around (including meta roles), or one player becomes roleless and the other gains both roles. This reverts at the end of the turn. Shards remain with their holder, but any minor roles or meta-roles the Shardholder possesses are switched. If one of the players affected by the Puppetmaster dies, then the roles are not reverted at the end of the turn.

The Lifeless Commander: During the night cycle, you are given one layer of protection for each attack that targets you. However, you receive no protection against attacks made during the day.

The Suicidal Analyst: Each night cycle, you scan a player to learn their role and alignment, including any meta-roles they hold. If you target a player whose alignment differs from yours, they become Outed. However, every night, you are attacked once for each Outed player you have created. You may spend an action in order to target a player you would like to scan. If you do not do so, a random player is chosen to be scanned, even if you have used all three of your actions that turn. If you are killed by a kill due to an Outed player, you win, even if your faction loses.

Outed Player: Created by the Analyst. Your role is publicly revealed in the write-up. After you are killed, you do not die until 2 cycles have passed. No player starts out as an Outed Player.

 



Planets and PMs: There will be 7 worlds available: Scadrial, Roshar, Nalthis, Sel, Taldain, Yolen, and First of the Sun. Each of these worlds will have a PM associated with it. Anyone on that world may use the PM freely. Other than these planet PMs and PMs that may be created by Devotion, no PMs between players are allowed.


Order of Actions (Day):
Secret Votes
Redirect Vote/Action
Investment
Non-specific Shardic Abilities and Meta-Roles
Lynch

Order of Actions (Night):
Redirect Action/Roleblock/Destroy Planet
Investment
Conversion
Non-specific Shardic Abilities and Meta-Roles
Protection and Healing
Poison
Mastrell
Awakener and Analyst scans
Attack Actions

Worldhopping

The game will start Saturday, 5/14/16, at midnight, Mountain Daylight Time. Day Cycles will be 48 hours, Night Cycles will be 24 hours. Future turns will end at midnight, MDT, on the appropriate day. Writeups will be posted as soon as is convenient following that.

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Edited by Metacognition
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Player List:


1. Par Degaton (Master Elodin)
2. Jonly (The Only Joe) - A Sliver of Preservation, and a Feruchemist
3. Hal Heatherlock (Parodium Haelbarde)
4. Seznith Seridanon (Kynedath)
5. The Nameless (Trelagist)
6. Gorl (cloudjumper)
7. Alkazar (Zephrer) - an exiled Sand Mastrell from Taldain
8. Hadrian Penrod (Araris Valerian) - a Scadrian nobleman
9. Miani (Mailliw), Maw's latest apprentice
10. Kelen Taldar (AliasSheep)
11. Tindomë (Elbereth)
12. Amanuensis (Amanuensis)
13. Nijza (Nyali), a world singer of small renown
14. Bernte Ghetti (Burnt Spaghetti)
15. Gon Freecs (DeathClutch19)
16. Unnamed Character 4 (Paranoid King), a lowly soldier
17. Exisa (phattemer), the original Seventeeth Shard
18. :) (MarkIV)
19. Parth (Conquestor)
20. Jimmy (TheMightyLopen), a Lifeless hamster
21. Nila Hamming (Arraenae), an enthusiastic Hemalurgist

22. Left of Space (leiftinspace)

23. Unnamed Character 6 (Quiver), a Rosharan dudebro highprince

24. Second of the Sky (Alvron), on his last chance with the Collective.

25. Vathir (The Young Bard), a Nalthian Rambleman

 

Pre-Game Rule Clarifications:

Rule addition: If a player holding a Shattered Shard dies, the Shard is removed from the game. This ends the ability of the 17th Shard to achieve their sudden death win condition.

 

Clarifications: If a player who has formerly held a Shard is killed, they will be revealed in the write-up as a Vessel. If a player currently holding a Shard is killed, they will be revealed in the write-up as "Vessel of [insert Shard here]." A player may begin with no role - if they are killed, they are revealed in the writeup as "Worldhopper (of the appropriate faction)." If a player who has no role due to the Puppetmaster is killed, they will be revealed in the same fashion.

 

As Odium may not hold a second Shard, if he kills a shard who did not invest in the last turn, it is passed to a random player. If more than one player attacked the Shard, and Odium is randomly ruled to receive it, the result will be rerolled until Odium no longer receives it.

 

Nyali's ListTM of Questions

 

Nyali's Second ListTM of Questions

 

Wherever a meta-role says "Begins with another minor role," it should be replaced with "Begins with another role." There are no limitations or guarantees on which roles a meta-role may start out with.

 

If Odium or Autonomy chooses the Troll as a champion, the Troll changes alignment to their side because of the investiture, and then immediately switches to their next alignment because of the action. However, the Troll keeps the invested abilities, PM etc of the Champion/Agent role.

 

If Odium attacks a Shardholder protected by the Lifeless Commander, the Shard is Shattered, but the player survives, and becomes the holder of the Shattered Shard.

 

Outed Players will not have their meta-roles revealed in the write-up, but the Suicidal Analyst will learn them when the Outed Player is created.

Lynch Details: A minimum of two votes is required to lynch a player. Ties will result in no lynch.

Finally, a note on role distribution. I do not guarantee that this is a role madness game (that is, I do not guarantee whether every player has a role or not). I do not guarantee that this is not a role madness game. I will neither confirm nor deny either statement, or any functional equivalent to those statements.

 

Cycle 1 Clarifications:

Worldhopping may only be done at Night.

Edited by Seonid
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Par Degaton is joining!

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I have been waiting for this game, ever since Quiver and I came up with the original concept. Adonalsium bless you for running it Seonid.

Jonly, a sliver of Preservation and Feruchemist is in the game.

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Welcome aboard, Joe! Hope you have as much fun with this one as I did with LG14

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I sorta have to sign up for this, don't I. 

 

Hal Heatherlocke, reporting in.

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Jeez. I can't invest in this right now. But I can't pass this up either. I guess I can sign up and hope a few things clear up soon. Alright, fine.

I won't be active for a while, but this is an LG, so I should be good to become active later on.

Character: Seznith Seridanon. His notable features include a red and black combat outfit of unknown origin, a deep blue sword with forest green gilding on the hilt and scabbard (the blade is speckled with white dots that make it resemble the night sky), and a head of black hair fading to red towards the tips. His hair seems to stay at the same ratio of red to black no matter how long his hair is.

I hope I can find time for this.

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Signing up as Gorl.

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Ah, I've been waiting for this. I'm really excited to have time to get back into SE again.

Signing up as Alkazar, an exiled Sand Mastrell from Taldain

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Welcome, everyone! And a special welcome to cloudjumper. I don't think I've seen you around these parts before; is this your first game?

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I'll sign up as Hadrian Penrod, a Scadrian nobleman.

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A few clarifications and one addition to the rules:

 

Rule addition: If a player holding a Shattered Shard dies, the Shard is removed from the game. This ends the ability of the 17th Shard to achieve their sudden death win condition.

 

Clarifications: If a player who has formerly held a Shard is killed, they will be revealed in the write-up as a Vessel. If a player currently holding a Shard is killed, they will be revealed in the write-up as "Vessel of [insert Shard here]." A player may begin with no role - if they are killed, they are revealed in the writeup as "Worldhopper (of the appropriate faction)." If a player who has no role due to the Puppetmaster is killed, they will be revealed in the same fashion.

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Of course I'm in! Character to come later.

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I'll join if you'll have me, as Kelen Taldar.

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No way I could pass this up. Lomion is in! :D

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Welcome, everyone! And a special welcome to cloudjumper. I don't think I've seen you around these parts before; is this your first game?

It actually is my second game, but the first game I was involved in has not started yet, so I'm still very new.

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It actually is my second game, but the first game I was involved in has not started yet, so I'm still very new.

Well, welcome anyways! Glad to have you.

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I'll play under the guise of Amanuensis. 

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Clarifications (mostly due to the fact that I keep thinking through all of the possible permutations - Nobody has actually asked any questions yet):

As Odium may not hold a second Shard, if he kills a shard who did not invest in the last turn, it is passed to a random player. If more than one player attacked the Shard, and Odium is randomly ruled to receive it, the result will be rerolled until Odium no longer receives it.

The ruless text has been updated with all clarifications so far. I will continue updating the rules text with any announced clarifications until the game starts. After that point, clarifications will not be added to the rules text.

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5 days from now? Well, I should be dead by then in LG 20, so sure, sign me up xD I'm currently on the very bottom of the player list of living players in LG 20, and the next one to face the dreaded Curse of the Bottom (players have been mostly dieing from the bottom of the list in that game)

Edit: oh, right, character. Sign me up as Nijza, a worldsinger of small renown. She was last seen wandering Nalthis with that knowing smile on her face that never seems to leave it.
 

 

Edit2: Having actually read through the rules, I have a ton of clarification questions...

 

 

Just to make sure I have this right, Autonomy can use her Shardic ability to tag someone for her win condition, but it does not change their win condition, correct? And she can only invest in a single person at a time to make them into an Agent, and the current Agent (and only the current agent) shares the Autonomy win condition. The current Agent can also tag one person per cycle, so two people get tagged every cycle between the two of them, right? Also, if everyone except Autonomy and Autonomy's Agent are tagged at the end of the game, they both win, even though both Autonomy and her Agent have not ever been tagged by their abilities, or do they have to tag themselves at some point?

 

The reason I'm a bit confused is the use of the word "convert," which I'm used to meaning "convert to your faction so you share their win condition," but it seems like you only mean "flag them for the purposes of your win condition without affecting their win condition or role" here.

 

Last Autonomy question: if the Autonomy win condition is met, does the game end immediately with Autonomy and their Agent winning, or does their win get recorded and they are revealed to have won at the end of the game, or do they have to have their win condition met when the game ends via another group's win condition in order to win as well?

 

 

When Survival invests in someone, do they gain an extra life permanently, or only for that turn? If Survival's investee loses the extra life but doesn't die, do they get a new extra life on the next cycle if Survival doesn't withdraw her investment?

 

 

If a Trapper is killed, does their ability simply allow them to delay their death until they run out of charges, spending one per cycle? Do they get revealed in the writeup as dead when they are killed, or only when they actually die? If they are killed a second time while their death is delayed, does it have no effect, cause them to die for reals immediately, cost them a charge immediately, or cause them to spend two charges per cycle instead of one?

 

 

Does the poisoner's ability being initially used on someone count as an attack that can be protected against, do the kills targeting the poisoned people triggered by the poisoner dying count as attacks that can be protected against, or are neither able to be protected against?

 

 

If two people change someone's vote, what happens? Like, if Sheep votes for Maill, and then I change Sheep's vote to Joe, and then Elbereth changes Sheep's vote to Elodin, who does Sheep wind up voting for? Elodin because Elbereth submitted the change last, or Joe because I submitted the change first, or Maill because the two changes somehow nullify each other?

 

 

Does the Lifeless Commander's ability make them completely bulletproof such that no night kills can kill them no matter which ones and how many hit them, so they can ONLY die during the day?

 

If Devotion never invests, are they permanently immune to lynching?

 

If Devotion is a Lifeless Commander, are they completely and totally invincible, until Odium goes "uhh, no" and splinters them? On that note, CAN Odium Splinter a Shard held by the Lifeless Commander? Can a Lifeless Commander holding Devotion only be killed if Roleblocked?

 

 

On that note, does Roleblocking even block Meta roles? The rules state that the alignment-switching aspect of the Troll's meta role ability can only be blocked by Preservation's uber-roleblock, implying normal Roleblocking doesn't affect it.

 

If an Outed Player is Roleblocked, does it make them die immediately, or is their two cycle long zombie power immune to Roleblocking?

 

 

Is Preservation's extra life tied to the Shard so when the Shard changes hands, if the extra life is spent, the new Shard holder does not gain an extra life? Or does the extra life come back every time the Shard changes hands? If it comes back when it moves, what happens if a former holder of that shard who already spent the extra life holds it again, do they regain the extra life or does it remain spent for them?

 

 

If two Mistborn target each other, and then one tries to kill the other, what happens? Do they both burn through all of their vials of metal until one of them runs out and dies (which would be the original target if both had the same number of vials), or do each only spend a single vial, resulting in the original target dying?

 

 

 

When the Troll switches alignment, which alignment do they switch between? Just Shardic Coalition and 17th Shard? What if they happen to be the Champion of Odium/Honor/Autonomy? Since Investment happens before Meta-actions, does that mean that if Honor/Odium/Autonomy makes the Troll their Champion/Agent, the Troll's alignment switches to Honor/Odium/Autonomy's and then immediately changes to a new one due to the Troll's meta role ability?

 

If the Puppetmaster switches the Troll with another player, does the temporary holder of the Troll role change alignment immediately as a result of the switch and the former Troll does not change alignment due to order of operations? Or does the Troll change before the swap, causing the new Troll to remain their old alignment until another action is taken against them? Or do both switch? When they switch back, does it trigger the Troll's ability again? Do alignments changed this way remain changed permanently? If other actions target the old Troll and/or temporary Troll which technically happen simultaneously (since all meta role and normal role actions are in the same spot in the Order of Operations), whose alignment changes?

 

 

Where does Worldhopping occur in the Order of Operations? It's missing from there. If it happens after Ruin's Shardic ability goes off and someone was set to worldhop to the world that Ruin just destroyed, what happens? Nothing, just a wasted action?

Edited by Nyali
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Good questions, all of these! Thanks for asking.

 

Edit2: Having actually read through the rules, I have a ton of clarification questions...

 

 

Just to make sure I have this right, Autonomy can use her Shardic ability to tag someone for her win condition, but it does not change their win condition, correct?

 

 

Correct.

 

 

 

And she can only invest in a single person at a time to make them into an Agent, and the current Agent (and only the current agent) shares the Autonomy win condition. The current Agent can also tag one person per cycle, so two people get tagged every cycle between the two of them, right?

 

Also correct - although any dead Agents who died as an Agent retain their win condition. If Autonomy withdraws her Investiture, and the former Agent dies before being reinvested, then they are revealed as Village in the write-up and have the Village win condition.

 

 

 

Also, if everyone except Autonomy and Autonomy's Agent are tagged at the end of the game, they both win, even though both Autonomy and her Agent have not ever been tagged by their abilities, or do they have to tag themselves at some point?

 

Autonomy and her Agent count towards their win conditions by nature of their roles, and do not need to be converted. In addition, Autonomy's win condition counts only living players - a dead player who was not converted does not count against it.

 

 

 

The reason I'm a bit confused is the use of the word "convert," which I'm used to meaning "convert to your faction so you share their win condition," but it seems like you only mean "flag them for the purposes of your win condition without affecting their win condition or role" here.

 

I can see how this would be misleading. The term is borrowed wholesale from MR10, which had the same exact mechanic with the Gyorn. But yes, the meaning you have intuited "flag them for the purposes of your win condition without affecting their win condition or role" is correct.

 

 

Last Autonomy question: if the Autonomy win condition is met, does the game end immediately with Autonomy and their Agent winning, or does their win get recorded and they are revealed to have won at the end of the game, or do they have to have their win condition met when the game ends via another group's win condition in order to win as well?

 

The game ends immediately if Autonomy meets their win condition. Or if Odium shatters all 10 Shards.

 

 

 

When Survival invests in someone, do they gain an extra life permanently, or only for that turn? If Survival's investee loses the extra life but doesn't die, do they get a new extra life on the next cycle if Survival doesn't withdraw her investment?

 

Any benefit given to an invested player lasts only as long as the player is invested. For all Shards other than Odium, Autonomy, Endowment, and Honor, investment ends after one full turn (day and night cycle). So, a player granted an extra life by survival returns to having their normal amount of lives after the investment ends. Since investment lasts only one turn, Survival would have to reinvest in the player to give them a new extra life if their investee is attacked but survives.

 

 

 

If a Trapper is killed, does their ability simply allow them to delay their death until they run out of charges, spending one per cycle? Do they get revealed in the writeup as dead when they are killed, or only when they actually die? If they are killed a second time while their death is delayed, does it have no effect, cause them to die for reals immediately, cost them a charge immediately, or cause them to spend two charges per cycle instead of one?

 

This is correct - they delay their death until they run out of charges. They are revealed in the writeup as having been attacked, but they are not revealed as a Trapper and their alignment is not revealed until they run out of charges. If they are attacked further times while their death is delayed, each attack causes them to spend one additional charge per cycle. (That was a good question, thanks for letting me think through this before the game starts).

 

 

 

Does the poisoner's ability being initially used on someone count as an attack that can be protected against, do the kills targeting the poisoned people triggered by the poisoner dying count as attacks that can be protected against, or are neither able to be protected against?

 

If the poisoner tries to poison someone on a cycle when they are protected, the poison attempt fails.  Exception: Preservation's investment power keeps them alive for the next cycle, but they are still poisoned and die when Preservation's investment is removed. Also, a Returned can sacrifice themselves to protect a poisoned player.

 

 

 

If two people change someone's vote, what happens? Like, if Sheep votes for Maill, and then I change Sheep's vote to Joe, and then Elbereth changes Sheep's vote to Elodin, who does Sheep wind up voting for? Elodin because Elbereth submitted the change last, or Joe because I submitted the change first, or Maill because the two changes somehow nullify each other?

 

If two people attempt to change someone's vote, the vote is canceled.

 

 

 

Does the Lifeless Commander's ability make them completely bulletproof such that no night kills can kill them no matter which ones and how many hit them, so they can ONLY die during the day?

 

Correct, except that they can still be poisoned. The lifeless do protect against a poison attempt, but they do not protect against the poison attack when the poisoner dies. Also, if they are roleblocked, the lifeless protection is nullified for that cycle. So a combination of a roleblock and a kill will take down the lifeless commander, but 3 or 4 or even 5 kills will not.

 

 

 

On that note, does Roleblocking even block Meta roles? The rules state that the alignment-switching aspect of the Troll's meta role ability can only be blocked by Preservation's uber-roleblock, implying normal Roleblocking doesn't affect it.

 

Of the meta roles, the following may be roleblocked: the Puppetmaster, the Suicidal Analyst, and the Lifeless Commander. If the Troll is targeted by a roleblock, his alignment switches as if it were any other action. Any other roles the Troll holds are still roleblocked, though.

 

 

 

If an Outed Player is Roleblocked, does it make them die immediately, or is their two cycle long zombie power immune to Roleblocking?

 

The two-cycle long zombie power is immune to roleblocks and any other kills. However, Outed players do not count towards their faction for purposes of outnumbering during their zombie period.

 

 

 

Is Preservation's extra life tied to the Shard so when the Shard changes hands, if the extra life is spent, the new Shard holder does not gain an extra life? Or does the extra life come back every time the Shard changes hands? If it comes back when it moves, what happens if a former holder of that shard who already spent the extra life holds it again, do they regain the extra life or does it remain spent for them?

 

Preservation's extra life is tied to the Shard. When the Shard changes hands, the new Vessel only gains an extra life if Preservation has not lost it to an attack yet.

 

 

 

If two Mistborn target each other, and then one tries to kill the other, what happens? Do they both burn through all of their vials of metal until one of them runs out and dies (which would be the original target if both had the same number of vials), or do each only spend a single vial, resulting in the original target dying?

 

If two Mistborn target each other, and one tries to kill the other (using another role's ability), then they burn through their vials of metals. The first one to run out dies - which would indeed be the original target.

 

 

 

When the Troll switches alignment, which alignment do they switch between? Just Shardic Coalition and 17th Shard? What if they happen to be the Champion of Odium/Honor/Autonomy? Since Investment happens before Meta-actions, does that mean that if Honor/Odium/Autonomy makes the Troll their Champion/Agent, the Troll's alignment switches to Honor/Odium/Autonomy's and then immediately changes to a new one due to the Troll's meta role ability?

 

The Troll switches through all 5 separate alignments. (Shardic Coalition, 17th Shard, Odium, Autonomy, and Survival). They are added to the 17th Shard's doc if they end on that alignment on any given cycle, but as Odium/Autonomy/Survival don't have docs, the Troll is not added to them. The Troll only learns who Odium, Autonomy, or Survival are if they find out via other means.

 

If Odium, or Autonomy makes the Troll an Agent, the Troll's alignment changes to Odium or Autonomy, and then immediately switches because of their ability. They do not lose their PM with Odium or Autonomy, though, or their kill ability. That is only removed if the investiture is removed. It should be noted that Honor does not change the win condition of their Champion - if they invest in a member of the 17th Shard, the win condition does not change.

 

 

 

If the Puppetmaster switches the Troll with another player, does the temporary holder of the Troll role change alignment immediately as a result of the switch and the former Troll does not change alignment due to order of operations? Or does the Troll change before the swap, causing the new Troll to remain their old alignment until another action is taken against them? Or do both switch? When they switch back, does it trigger the Troll's ability again? Do alignments changed this way remain changed permanently? If other actions target the old Troll and/or temporary Troll which technically happen simultaneously (since all meta role and normal role actions are in the same spot in the Order of Operations), whose alignment changes?

 

Ooh - very good question. I'm going to rule that the Puppetmaster switch occurs immediately before the Troll's alignment change. Therefore, the if the puppetmaster targets the Troll, the old Troll's alignment remains what it would have been at that point in the order of operations (any alignment changes due to previous actions still occur). The new troll switches alignment due to the puppetmaster's action, and any other actions that happen after it in the Order of Operations. When the switch back occurs, the temporary Troll returns to their original alignment - the Puppetmaster can't make a permanent alignment switch.

 

 

 

Where does Worldhopping occur in the Order of Operations? It's missing from there. If it happens after Ruin's Shardic ability goes off and someone was set to worldhop to the world that Ruin just destroyed, what happens? Nothing, just a wasted action?

 

Worldhopping occurs last in the order of actions. If a player was worldhopping to a world destroyed by Ruin's shardic ability, the action is wasted, but no other effect occurs.

 

Thanks for the excellent questions! If you need clarification on anything else (or if any of my explanations aren't clear enough), don't hesitate to ask!

 

Also, to anyone who might be on the edge of joining or not, I need at least 20-25 people in order to run this game properly. Right now, we're at 13, or halfway there. Sign up for your chance at Shardic Power!

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Thanks so much for all the answers! :)

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Ok, I'll join. I'll come up with a character later.

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More questions and comments! <.<

 

The game ends immediately if Autonomy meets their win condition. Or if Odium shatters all 10 Shards.

 
Small concern that, if Autonomy survives until there are only ~6 players left, there's basically no way to stop them from winning. Chances are that two or three of those have already been tagged by that point, and tagging the rest is trivially done, since two can be tagged every round no matter how many players remain, even if Autonomy's agent is dead (declaring a new agent is the same as an extra tag in that case). But, I guess the trick is to not let it get down to that point and make sure there's no Autonomy left alive when there are so few players. But, since investment happens before attacks, Autonomy can invest and die, giving their shard and win condition to their investee, and then that investee can then invest the following cycle in someone who will then gain the win condition and shard when the new Autonomy dies, and so on - it seems really hard to fully kill Autonomy since you need to kill both the shard holder and their agent in the same round. I guess role blocks and such change that a bit, as does Odium's ability to shatter Autonomy and the fact that other Shards can't be invested in at all. By the time there are so few players left that it looks trivial for Autonomy to win, most people left alive should be Shards.
 
 

Any benefit given to an invested player lasts only as long as the player is invested. For all Shards other than Odium, Autonomy, Endowment, and Honor, investment ends after one full turn (day and night cycle). So, a player granted an extra life by survival returns to having their normal amount of lives after the investment ends. Since investment lasts only one turn, Survival would have to reinvest in the player to give them a new extra life if their investee is attacked but survives.

 
So, it basically acts the same as Protection, making someone not die if attacked once per night, except it also works on the lynch, the poisoner kill, and a Returned using their sacrifice ability?

 

If the poisoner tries to poison someone on a cycle when they are protected, the poison attempt fails.  Exception: Preservation's investment power keeps them alive for the next cycle, but they are still poisoned and die when Preservation's investment is removed. Also, a Returned can sacrifice themselves to protect a poisoned player.

 
Okay, so nothing except an extra life will save someone who has already been poisoned from dying when the poisoner dies? Except, it seems the Returned ability is an exception. Does the Returned ability only protect them if it is used on the night the poisoner dies? Or, if the Returned ability is used on someone who was poisoned, would it cure the poison (which makes thematic sense)? If so, that should be listed as a power of the Returned ability.
 
On the subject of the Returned, a few new questions - if Endowment is targeted by a Mistborn when she takes back her Investment from a Returned causing the Returned to die, does the Mistborn then attack her? Does a Returned using a sacrifice action not die if they are Protected when they do it? If a Mistborn targets them and then they sacrifice themselves, does the Mistborn attack the Returned because the Returned made a kill action against herself? (And, if so, does it negate the Returned's sacrifice power since the Mistborn ability says their attack happens "instead" of the attackers?) After a Returned dies (again), can they be re-returned? If Survival and Endowment both invest in the same person, can they use their sacrifice ability every cycle safely since they get an extra life every cycle from Survival?

 

Correct, except that they can still be poisoned. The lifeless do protect against a poison attempt, but they do not protect against the poison attack when the poisoner dies. Also, if they are roleblocked, the lifeless protection is nullified for that cycle. So a combination of a roleblock and a kill will take down the lifeless commander, but 3 or 4 or even 5 kills will not.

 
How can they be poisoned if they are automatically protected from poisoning every turn? I suppose the answer is that the only way to kill a Lifeless Commander holding Devotion is with Hoid's roleblock or a Returned's suicidal roleblock combined with either a night kill on the same target or a poisoning of the target followed by the death of the poisoner. (The Champion of Honor can't roleblock a Shard.) That's incredibly specific, and if Hoid is dead, that sounds mostly impossible. But, if you feel it's very unlikely that a Lifeless Commander will get hold of Devotion, then I guess it's not a big deal?
 
 

The Troll switches through all 5 separate alignments. (Shardic Coalition, 17th Shard, Odium, Autonomy, and Survival). They are added to the 17th Shard's doc if they end on that alignment on any given cycle, but as Odium/Autonomy/Survival don't have docs, the Troll is not added to them. The Troll only learns who Odium, Autonomy, or Survival are if they find out via other means.


Do the alignments cycle in a predictable order?

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