bartbug Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 First off, much credit to vikorr! He is the person who set this off in my brain case. Second off, if this has been said before, then I'm sorry! And finally... the theory! Alright, ladies and gentlemen. The main of my theory lies on the principle that a spren bond has to do largely with your cognitive aspect. Which is not only decided by how you view yourself, but how others view you. In the Emperor's Soul, Shai tells us, All things exist in three Realms, Gaotona. Physical, Cognitive, Spiritual. The Physical is what we feel, what is before us. The Cognitive is how an object is viewed and how it views itself. The Spiritual Realm contains an object's soul - it's essence - as well as the ways it is connected to the things and people around it. -Emperor's Soul, pg 53 (Paperback) It is important to know that when Shai describes the Cognitive Realm, she says that the way an object is viewed before she says and how it views itself. Which brings us to our next point. When Syl is talking about what Kaladin used to be, and why she followed him, she says, You used to be so vibrant. So many looked up to you, Kaladin. Your squad of soldiers. The enemies you fought. The other slaves. Even some of the lighteyes. -Way of Kings, pg 514 (ebook) A large part of the reason that Syl joined with Kaladin was because that others saw him as upholding his honor. Even when he was a wretch, he still held some of that respect. Now, onto the recreance. There are two death rattles that are particularly significant: “The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather…we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes.” “Ten orders. We were loved, once. Why have you forsaken us, Almighty! Shard of my soul, where have you gone?” Emphasis on the love. In it's absence, the bond dissolves (which relies on the conjecture we get, finally, by moving onto Feverstone Keep). A terrible feeling struck him. A sense of immense tragedy, of pain and betrayal. From <WoR Spoilers!> We know that many spren died in this event. They died because not only did the knights Radiant forsake their vows, the people of Feverstone Keep visibly saw it as a betrayal. They had thought of the Knights Radiant as enemies and traitors, and were prepared to fight for their lives. So... Tadaa! In culmination: A massive part of the nahel bond is having an honorable cognitive aspect, which is largely determined by how others view you. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikorr Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Hi Bartbug, Nice theory...and I think a lot of it is correct (not sure about the Recreance). But what about Shallan and Cryptics? Edit : it still may hold true for honorspren...which were the major sprentype at Feverstone Keep. Edited January 21, 2014 by vikorr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I like your theory, but I have a problem with your last premise: Now, onto the recreance. There are two death rattles that are particularly significant: Emphasis on the love. In it's absence, the bond dissolves (which relies on the conjecture we get, finally, by moving onto Feverstone Keep). From <WoR Spoilers!> We know that many spren died in this event. They died because not only did the knights Radiant forsake their vows, the people of Feverstone Keep visibly saw it as a betrayal. They had thought of the Knights Radiant as enemies and traitors, and were prepared to fight for their lives. First of all, we do not know for sure that the Recreance was the event that killed the Spren. We have strong reasons to assume so, but it is by no means certain at this point. Secondly, the people at Feverstone Keep was more confused and (initially) scared about what happened there. I doubt any of them really thought of it as a big betrayal - at least not at that time. They would be more as in "OMG! This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules IS HAPPENING?!", then "Oooo! Free Shards!" and then proceed to kill each other for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbug Posted January 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 You're right that I am mAking a big assumption there. And tbh, I have no idea about Cryptics. I assume that they would be similar. Yeah, the Feverstone Keep part is really just something that sort of clicked, like intuition. Not nearly as logic based as the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikorr Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 What I meant by the reference to Cryptics, is that they appear to thrive on hidden truths. And they don't view the world the way Honorspren do...Shallans murder of her father is no problem to them...but her telling them that she's a murderer is a big deal to them, because the general public doesn't know it. That Shallan is a thief is no problem etc...so they appear attracted to hidden motivations that the general public sees her as something else. Wouldn't the recreance actually be attractive to Cryptics, because the Knights Radiant : - had hidden motivations for it, and - the general public sees them as something else? Perhaps then, under your theory, they are only attracted to people who have secrets (no matter how dark) and are still liked... it's possible. Secondly, the people at Feverstone Keep was more confused and (initially) scared about what happened there. I doubt any of them really thought of it as a big betrayal - at least not at that time. They would be more as in "OMG! This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules IS HAPPENING?!", then "Oooo! Free Shards!" and then proceed to kill each other for them. That's only a few hundred people...after all the fallout, thousands, then hundreds, then perhaps millions, viewed it differently. What do you think those who won shardsets did...after they were forced to kill their comrades to keep them?...did they wonder off, now fearful that others would try to take their shards (ie kill them) while they slept? (especially after hearing what happened as feverstone)...what is a murderers only safe way to keep himself alive, and his shardset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khmauv Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think that honor is a thing that cannot be gained in isolation. One can act honorably in isolation but they cannot be honored until those acts, performed in isolation, come to light and are viewed by the populace as honorable. So in one way I think that Bartbug is correct, that for the Nahel bond between a person and an Honor Spren to happen the person must be perceived as honorable. However, I am not sure that the evidence supports that this honor must be based in the cognitive relm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbug Posted January 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) I guess you could be right in that the spiritual realm involves your connections with others, which may include honor-ness, but the cognitive realm seems to be a major focus of the SA, with Shadesmar coming into play and what not. Also, honorspren, along with cryptics, live in the cognitive realm. And also, @vikorr, the Feverstone Keep incident was comprised of honor radiants. Edited January 21, 2014 by bartbug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 And also, @vikorr, the Feverstone Keep incident was comprised of honor radiants. I am not entirely sure what you mean by this, but if you mean to say that the two groups were made up of Radiants bonded to Spren aligned more with honour than Cultivation, then I believe you to be in the wrong. While we know that Windrunners bond Honourspren, we have no information on what type of Spren the Stonewards bonded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbug Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Ha, you're right. I did a mind fart (pardon my French) and thought that Stonewards, with their vaguely masculine sounding name, must be more honory than cultivationy, or on the honor side of the Honorspren/Cryptics feud. Actually, I'd suppose it's more likely that they would be Cultivationy, given how they are on the right side of the insect thing on the inside of the WoK cover. Me, being clever, was trying to say that the Cryptics were not involved with the Feverstone Keep, because that would have benefited the bond, instead of breaking it. Of course, that thought is completely inane and probably due to a lack of sleep. Yeah, unfortunately, the Recreance part of the theory really doesn't have as much evidence or anything, really, compared to the first part. Other than my intuition, which says it's awesome, of course. Intuition is kind of magical. With it, plot holes, or holes in trains of thought, disapear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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