Where's the perpendicularity?

[Farnsworth]

There is definitely something going on with the sun for sure. I think the perpendicularity river too. Maybe it's a shardpool? Usually people can feel if something is a shardpool, but it could be that daysiders are so overwhelmed by whatever force is coming from the sun that the investiture coming out of the river just isn't noticed.

[Pathfinder]

I think that is something other than a Perpendicularity. They don't really have any of the characteristics that you mentioned. There is probably something magical happening with that sun, but I don't think this is it.

Well I have a lot more reading to do (still in the beginning of my re-read), but the radiance of the sun could act like the mists/highstorms and the sun be the pool. Vin, Kelsier, and Wax all feel a connection to the mists or feel its presence, and the mists do originate from the well of ascension. Highstorms come from the origin, and at least Kaladin feels a connection to the storms. Although he is a windrunner so it would make sense for him to feel an affinity towards storms. I do not think what we know so far is enough to rule out the sun, but I also admit what I provided is not conclusive either. It is just the direction I am leaning. 

[Yata]

Vin, Kelsier, and Wax all feel a connection to the mists or feel its presence, and the mists do originate from the well of ascension.

Sorry but.... What ?

 

The Mist don't originate from the Well.... The Mists are simply piece of Preservation's Power... they don't come by any specific place... In the end if we push too far the cause-effect relationship... it's more that the Well come from the Mist XD (the Well is where the Preservation's power condense)

[Blightsong]

The mists are a phenomenon similar to highstorms, both of which are seperate from Perpendicularities.

[soulcastJam]

Lets rule out the sun as the perpendicularity. It would be a little hard to travel to the cognitive realm from there considering the temperature...

[Pathfinder]

Back on track...

There is one river on Dayside. Perhaps this is the Shardpool?

During my re-read, there are multiple rivers on Dayside. Khriss just commented on the first she saw, but another river flows into that river from another range

 

Sorry but.... What ?

 

The Mist don't originate from the Well.... The Mists are simply piece of Preservation's Power... they don't come by any specific place... In the end if we push too far the cause-effect relationship... it's more that the Well come from the Mist XD (the Well is where the Preservation's power condense)

I was basing that statement on me recalling how Luthadel had the most time without mist, and how it seemed to coalesce and get thick around that center as if it was being pulled towards the well. Upon looking deeper into the books, it could be stated that it was because Luthadel was at the equator (if i recall correctly), and thereby got more daylight than the surrounding area and could last longer, and also the mist ultimately was drawn towards it because Vin was there to pull it in. I do not believe that still precludes it, but again I admit it also does not prove it.

 

The mists are a phenomenon similar to highstorms, both of which are seperate from Perpendicularities.

Do we know for a fact they are separate? One may not flow from the other, but do we have WoB or proof they are completely unrelated?

 

Lets rule out the sun as the perpendicularity. It would be a little hard to travel to the cognitive realm from there considering the temperature...

Just because it would be difficult to use a perpendicularity to shift over, instead of space travel, does not mean it cannot be there. Just that it is difficult. 

Edited May 4, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Yata]

Do we know for a fact they are separate? One may not flow from the other, but do we have WoB or proof they are completely unrelated?

Well on Roshar both the Knows Perpendicularities aren't in the Origin... Therefore probably are unrelated with the Highstorm, but we have no WoB about.

 

 

 

Just because it would be difficult to use a perpendicularity to shift over, instead of space travel, does not mean it cannot be there. Just that it is difficult. 

yeah a Perpendicularity happens, it isn't place in some place to be usefull, but in the end if Worldhoppers are capable to jump in and out of Taldain. This would mean that the Perpendicularity is where they can reach (or they use other method ora another perpendicularity) and use it

Edited May 4, 2016 by Yata

[Pathfinder]

Well on Roshar both the Knows Perpendicularities aren't in the Origin... Therefore probably are unrelated with the Highstorm, but we have no WoB about.

 

yeah a Perpendicularity happens, it isn't place in some place to be usefull, but in the end if Worldhoppers are capable to jump in and out of Taldain. This would mean that the Perpendicularity is where they can reach (or they use other method ora another perpendicularity) and use it

Eh, I dunno, just because there isn't a clear glowing line for all to see connecting the two, doesn't mean it isn't there. But I do realize that is more my own opinion, than anything I can concretely back up. 

 

Well from what I recall (though I am re-reading it now), the only world hopper we know of on Taldain is Hoid, and as you said, we have no idea the level of options he has access to to get around. 

[Windrunner Savant]

Well from what I recall (though I am re-reading it now), the only world hopper we know of on Taldain is Hoid, and as you said, we have no idea the level of options he has access to to get around.

While Hoid might be the only worldhopper to travel to Taldain at the time of the novel, we know that one way or another both Khriss and Baon become worldhoppers, so unless something drastically changes the perpendicularity has to be somehow accessible by them.

[Pathfinder]

While Hoid might be the only worldhopper to travel to Taldain at the time of the novel, we know that one way or another both Khriss and Baon become worldhoppers, so unless something drastically changes the perpendicularity has to be somehow accessible by them.

Again, you are assuming that in the time between white sand and mistborn, that there could not be another means of entering the cognitive realm without relying on a perpendicularity. And it could also be on the moon. Just throwing it out there because it popped in my head since it is just as present as the sun, and is used to tell time. 

 

edit: my point is not the definitively say it is the sun. Just that we do not have enough information to definitively rule it out

Edited May 4, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Pathfinder]

So new piece of info I picked up while reading that may help various theories. So for those that believe it is concerning the river/water, then the deep sand is probably ruled out and same thing visa versa. Basically in the novel, Kenton comments to himself how the Dorim vines rise to the surface for sun, and then retreat under ground so they do not dry out. They are the reason there are no deep sandlings as the vines criss cross every 10 feet or so. The vines do not exist in the deep sand however, because they need to stretch down to the rocks below to reach the water. The deep sand is too deep for them to do this as they cannot survive in areas where this distance is too great. 

[Yata]

Again, you are assuming that in the time between white sand and mistborn, that there could not be another means of entering the cognitive realm without relying on a perpendicularity. And it could also be on the moon. Just throwing it out there because it popped in my head since it is just as present as the sun, and is used to tell time. 

 

edit: my point is not the definitively say it is the sun. Just that we do not have enough information to definitively rule it out

You may have right but in the end also the moon (for example) is out of Wordhoppers' possibility.

 

I think there may be other Perpendicularity other than Shardpool (or Minor Shardworld will be unreachable) but we don't know how they may travel other than Perpendicularity (if they have a Worldhop ability builded in their local Magic Systems).

Secret History Spoiler

Hoid himself had to use an extreme dangerous Perpendicularity and he seems to have no other method to worldhop

 

Anyway without any information, will be struck on this forever 

 

I have great doubts about Autonomy as Invested Sun, but in the end I may be horrible wrong

[Pathfinder]

You may have right but in the end also the moon (for example) is out of Wordhoppers' possibility.

 

I think there may be other Perpendicularity other than Shardpool (or Minor Shardworld will be unreachable) but we don't know how they may travel other than Perpendicularity (if they have a Worldhop ability builded in their local Magic Systems).

Secret History Spoiler

Hoid himself had to use an extreme dangerous Perpendicularity and he seems to have no other method to worldhop

 

Anyway without any information, will be struck on this forever 

 

I have great doubts about Autonomy as Invested Sun, but in the end I may be horrible wrong

Although I admit it is due to her nature as an Elsecaller, Jasnah was able to travel to the cognitive realm without a perpendicularity, and (although this is my own interpretation), I gathered from Ivory that they are not required to travel. He just used Honor's as an example

 

“Here?” He shook his head. “No. We must find a stable junction. Honor’s Perpendicularity, perhaps, though it is very distant. But Jasnah, the grinders will soon be!”

 

Personally I take that as "No, we have to find a means of transportation. JFK perhaps". Doesn't mean it has to be an airport, you could take a car, or a bus but an airport is one option. So personally I take that to mean that you can use a perpendicularity, but that is not the only way. But again that is my own interpretation, and I understand that others believe differently and have their own evidence supporting their views. 

 

edit: little tidbit I picked up in the book. Khriss asks why Kherstians hate sand masters and Kenton's response is

 

"The believe the Sand Lord manifests himself in sandstorms, that the sand is his body, and the sun is his eye."

Edited May 5, 2016 by Pathfinder

[hoidhunter]

I am inclined to think that the shardpool on Taldain is the mysterious underground point of origin for the Big river that surrounds Kezare.  I don't really have any specific evidence to back that up, it's just the impression I immediately got when reading the story.

 

That being said, I can definitely see the arguments for deep sand being a possibility.  It is certainly a place of deep reverence for the religious, as well as the place where the giant crazy monsters come from...

 

Side note...do we know for CERTAIN (ie, WoB) that there is only one shard on Taldain?

[PallonianFire]

 

 

Side note...do we know for CERTAIN (ie, WoB) that there is only one shard on Taldain?

 

Yes, we do.

 

 

 

QUESTION

Is Bavadin the only shard on Taldain?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He is the only shard on the planet.

 

also:

 

 

 

QUESTION

Are there other shards in the Taldain solar system?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Now that's a clever question. There is only one for that solar system. There are other places with only one. It's not uncommon. We've gone to places with more than one because that is where the conflict is cosmere-centric.

Edited May 13, 2016 by PallonianFire

[hoidhunter]

Yeah...I just found one of the same quotes on theoryland...the one about the whole solar system i hadn't seen. Pretty positive proof. Upvote for doing the leg work.

[Pathfinder]

So although I do not mean to say that the river flowing from a shard pool is not possible, I do want to clarify although Khriss at first thinks it is the only river on Dayside, this is not in fact the truth. Quotes shown below:

 

White Sand page 77

Lossand was a large, triangular nation that ran nearly the center of the continent to the southern shore. It followed what appeared to be Dayside's only river, and though the nation was long, it probably wasn't more than a few hundred ells wide.

 

White Sand page 133

A cavern opened from the rock floor a short distance away, and bubbling from its depths was a massive river. "The Ry'Do Ali," Kenton explained behind them. "The Vein of Cursed Waters, as the Kershtians have dubbed it. Lifeblood of Lossand."

 

little further down

 

"We must have finally dropped beneath the water table" Cynder mused rubbing his chin with his good arm. "But where does it come from?" Khriss demanded. "The mountain, perhaps?" Cynder guessed. "It melts at the mountain's top, but gets trapped in caverns and clefts, traveling down through the rock until it stops far beneath those sands."

 

White Sand page 150

In addition, the river got even bigger here. As they approached, Khriss could see a second, smaller river merging with the Ry'Do Ali. If her map were to be believed, its origin could be found in the mountains to the east, the only of their kind on the continent other than the single peak at the center of the kerla. 

 

So perhaps the shardpool is at the top of the single mountain at the center of the kerla. The ice by it melts, and as Cynder guesses travels underground, till it reaches the spot that is below the water table, resulting in the water. Of note though, is the water does not seem to have any special properties. The plants are not especially lush nor vibrant, and in fact seem to be less rich than the Kershtians that use buried plants. 

[Windrunner Savant]

I like the idea of the shardpool being on the mountaintop. It seems to fit the pattern of the shardpools found on Sel, Roshar, and pre-Lord Ruler Scadrial. Perhaps mountaintops hold some form of importance or purpose to the Shards?

Edited May 13, 2016 by Windrunner Savant

[Yata]

The Sardpools are where the Shard's Investiture naturally condensates (if I remember right BS used the water-cycle as methapor). Therefore it's possible that some geographyc parameters are more likely to be found where a Shardpool's spawn

[Lurky McLurkerson]

I am pulling for a Dark Side of Taldain shardpool simply because it sounds, by all inference, like a more varied/exotic locale. Also, it could be why we don't get any worldhoppers in-camera. 

[CalaCrisp88]

"The believe the Sand Lord manifests himself in sandstorms, that the sand is his body, and the sun is his eye."

The part about the sun eye sounds like Nalt, Trell's jealous brother. Trell actually appeared in White Sand, didn't he?

 

Spoilers for MB Era 2:

At the end of either SoS or BoM (can't remember), they find an unknown metal and believe it to be of the god Trell. Do we know of any strange metals on Taldain that don't appear elsewhere? And also, do we know what exactly Trell is? Is he a shardholder, sliver, etc.?

[Pathfinder]

The part about the sun eye sounds like Nalt, Trell's jealous brother. Trell actually appeared in White Sand, didn't he?

 

Spoilers for MB Era 2:

At the end of either SoS or BoM (can't remember), they find an unknown metal and believe it to be of the god Trell. Do we know of any strange metals on Taldain that don't appear elsewhere? And also, do we know what exactly Trell is? Is he a shardholder, sliver, etc.?

Trell is a random mason that was upset that his fellow coworkers were trapped under a building and might die. Kenton saved their lives. There is WoB I believe that it wasn't a coincidence but at this time we just do not know. Also there was not a unique metal mentioned in white sand the prose version. There is terken, which is a sandling carapace, but otherwise nothing else is of note as "unique".

Finally the metal might be unique to Scadrial insofar as that is how shards are made manifest on that planet. There is WoB stating that if Odium had invested himself in Scadrial, he would have a god metal. So just because there is not a special metal on Taldain, does not preclude the red haze from being autonomy.

Though again, there isn't conclusive evidence saying it has to be autonomy. There is a debate over that identity all over the boards. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by Pathfinder

[CalaCrisp88]

I know Trell was relatively unimportant in White Sand, I was just asking about what he apparently becomes later on in Mistborn. Sorry, that wasn't really clear in my post

[Omelio]

On 5/2/2016 at 6:16 PM, Pathfinder said:

I am re-reading White Sand, and as I do I am leaning towards the sun. Daysider's instinctively know when it "feels" like in the right place in the sky, to know east from west and not get lost. They all also feel a "spiritual" connection to it and always "feel" its presence. Even Khriss when she first experiences it, feels a sense of presence to it. 

I think that is quite literally based on the fact that the sun does not move.  Think of how we think the moon is following us when we are traveling. Imagine how distinct that would be if the sun was still at all times.  Its a landmark or skymark as the case may be.