Compounding inconsistency

[Shadeshadow227]

You repeated basic explanation of Compounding which, as you know, I must have known to come up with this analysis (it's even written in the very post you quoted). So stop with condescending tone.

And claiming the result is wrong is not the same as proving it's wrong. If you noticed any mistakes I did, point them out. But since you didn't do that, I somehow feel you didn't spot any mistakes...

Next time don't post if you have nothing to add to discussion.

 

But then it means that there is no difference between burning metalmind Invested to the hilt and one that was briefly charged for a fraction of second. I find it hard to believe.

If the only factor of the Feruchemical output of Compounding is amount of metal, it basically destroys the exponential power output we believe Compounders are capable of. We could really use a WoB on this topic...

 

Sorry. I didn't mean to be condescending. I just meant, the "OK, now swallow half empty metalmind. Logically reasoning, only half of the PPG should turn into Feruchemical charge, because metal is only overwritten partially and the other half of the PPG should produce Allomantic effect."  part was wrong. As I said, the stored Investiture creates a filter, meaning that all the Investiture Allomantically obtained from Preservation changes into the feruchemical attribute. The math goes more like this: amount of Feruchemical storage in a metalmind * 10 = amount of power Compounder receives via compounding. Of course, the amount stored in a given metalmind varies, but, yeah...you get the gist. Sorry, man.

[Oversleep]

Sorry. I didn't mean to be condescending. I just meant, the "OK, now swallow half empty metalmind. Logically reasoning, only half of the PPG should turn into Feruchemical charge, because metal is only overwritten partially and the other half of the PPG should produce Allomantic effect."  part was wrong. As I said, the stored Investiture creates a filter, meaning that all the Investiture Allomantically obtained from Preservation changes into the feruchemical attribute. The math goes more like this: amount of Feruchemical storage in a metalmind * 10 = amount of power Compounder receives via compounding. Of course, the amount stored in a given metalmind varies, but, yeah...you get the gist. Sorry, man.

I'm sorry too.

But I think that one more step in your reasoning and you would see my point of view: "Feruchemic charge*10= power Compounder obtains", as you said. So logically the more charge in the metalmind, the more power you would obtain from burning it, right?

But on the other hand, the power you draw from burning the metal is constant. If all of it changes into Feruchemical attribute, then the charge of the metalmind is irrelevant.

That's what my problem is.

[Yata]

But then it means that there is no difference between burning metalmind Invested to the hilt and one that was briefly charged for a fraction of second. I find it hard to believe.

If the only factor of the Feruchemical output of Compounding is amount of metal, it basically destroys the exponential power output we believe Compounders are capable of. We could really use a WoB on this topic...

Yeah, if the amount of charge in a metalmind is meaningless... Rashek would have no need to take time to "Compound more" (his famous private time as old man) his youth

Edited May 3, 2016 by Yata

[natc]

I could've sworn I read a WoB once where the compounding only lasts while you're compounding the parts of the metal with charge in them . . . possibly feruchemical charge isn't evenly distributed?

[Jondesu]

I could've sworn I read a WoB once where the compounding only lasts while you're compounding the parts of the metal with charge in them . . . possibly feruchemical charge isn't evenly distributed?

Yeah, pretty sure that's been at least hinted at several times. I think of it like a honeycomb: you store bits of it in parts of the metal, and it eventually fills up, but each bit occupies a specific part of the metal.

jW

[Yata]

I could've sworn I read a WoB once where the compounding only lasts while you're compounding the parts of the metal with charge in them . . . possibly feruchemical charge isn't evenly distributed?

I have missed that WoB... I always thought that the Feruchemy's Charge "spreads" in the Metalmind (like water in a Cognitive Cup).

[18th Shard]

Relevant WOB dump:

 

 

People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense.

Compounding is where you are able to kind of draw in more power than you should with feruchemy. What’s going on there is you’re actually charging a piece of metal, and then you are burning that metal as a feruchemical charge. What is happening is that the feruchemical charge overwrites the allomantic charge, and so you actually fuel feruchemy with allomancy, is what you are doing. Then if you just get out another piece of metal and store it in, since you’re not drawing the power from yourself, you’re cheating the system, you’re short-circuiting the system a little bit. So you can actually use the power that usually fuels allomancy, to fuel feruchemy, which you can then store in a metalmind, and basically build up these huge reservoirs of it. So what’s going on there is… imagine there’s like, an imprint, a wavelength, so to speak. A beat for an allomantic thing, that when you burn a metal, it says “ok, this is what power we give.” When it’s got that charge, it changes that beat and says, “now we get this power.” And you access a set of feruchemical power. That’s why compounding is so powerful.

 

 

READERAT2046

Can a Feruchemist store an attribute in a metalmind that someone else has already stored in and if so, do the charges affect each other in any way?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, but the charges are just stored in separate pieces of the metal, and don't really influence one another.

 

 

ANDREW THE GREAT

What would happen if a person were to burn a metal that was Feruchemically charged using Allomancy?

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

The metal used in Allomancy is like a key or a doorway to the power that Allomancy actually uses. The metal acts as a filter, much as the Aons in Elantris do, to determine what the power actually does. However, if the metal is Feruchemically charged, then it will basically become a super-burst of Feruchemical power with no Allomantic effect. The Feruchemical charge acts as a filter as well as the metal, and changes what the power does. in this case, say you were burning steel, you would just be massively speedy for a second, and wouldn't actually have the ability to push on anything Allomantically. Hope that answered the question. I get the concept, so if you need me to explain it differently, let me know and i'll try. Oh, the other thing I forgot is that this concept only works if it's a metal that you charged yourself. If it's a metal someone else charged, it would just work like regular Allomancy, and the Feruchemical charge would just cease to exist.

 

 

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

Feruchemy is about multipliers. The more the Lord Ruler aged, the less "multiplier" he could store in his metalmind. And the more he aged the more he would need to Compound to stay alive. There could exist an upper bound to the amount of time the Lord Ruler could survive off this trick.

I'm not sure of their implications, but there they are. I seem to remember one about storing different kinds of tin in the same piece of metal, but I didn't see it.

[Shadeshadow227]

I'm sorry too.

But I think that one more step in your reasoning and you would see my point of view: "Feruchemic charge*10= power Compounder obtains", as you said. So logically the more charge in the metalmind, the more power you would obtain from burning it, right?

But on the other hand, the power you draw from burning the metal is constant. If all of it changes into Feruchemical attribute, then the charge of the metalmind is irrelevant.

That's what my problem is.

 

...It's magic. To be honest, this speculation is irrelevant because, IT'S MAGIC. magic goes by it's own rules, however nonsensical they may be. So, yeah, problem SOLVED!

[Yata]

...It's magic. To be honest, this speculation is irrelevant because, IT'S MAGIC. magic goes by it's own rules, however nonsensical they may be. So, yeah, problem SOLVED!

Well Mister Sanderson uses what it's called "Hard Magic", this mean that his magic works with rigid rules and he try to limit the "nonsensical" with it.

This is the reason to exist of half of this forum's topics.... instead we may say "it's magic" to all the doubt XD

 

We saw him....wrote the scenes in his books, limiting himself with the rules he creates in first place. And one of his "Rules" it's about power's limitation (I think it's the First or Second "Sanderson Rule")

Edited May 4, 2016 by Yata