Feruchemy is of Preservation?

[DeadFencer]

Feruchemy seems a lot more like the Preservation-related power than Allomancy. You out power somewhere, preserving it for later. Allomancy is destroying the metal to create a magical effect. That seems more like a power of creation, and preservation and ruin can only create together. Feruchemy is supposed to be the creation (or preservation and ruin) effect however.

[Yata]

It's to se from the user PoV and Energy Managment.

 

In Allomancy you get the power from an outsider source (Preservation through metal) and in the end, you preserv your own energy.

In Feruchemy you get the power from yourself (without using some Hack) and you suffer some Ruinous effect to yourself (storing) to get a surplus later (taping).

[Pagerunner]

You know, we were just talking about something similar in another thread. I think you need to look at bigger parameters when discussing Preservation and Ruin - they are looking at the context of life and civilization on Roshar, not just individuals. Here's how I phrased it in the other topic:

 

There's a connection to entropy here. There's no such thing as a true perpetual motion machine - you need to add energy, or it will stop. Same principle here - Preservation needs to add Investiture greater than the cost, that of the metal consumed. Feruchemy, as End-Neutral, doesn't net you more energy over a period of time, just shuffles around when you get it. Hemalurgy, End-Negative, is accelerating the heat death of the universe. That's why Allomancy is of Preservation, since it helps to stave off stagnation.

 

The Intent of Preservation isn't saving things for later, like strawberry preserves (which I have on my sandwich today for lunch, incidentally). It's a slightly different sense of the word, more like maintaining the universe. As any IT technician would tell you, there is work required for ongoing maintenance of a network or server - it takes work to 'preserve' the integrity of the company's computer system. Think of Scadrial as a system, and the Shards are using Investiture to maintain it. Preservation wants life on Scadrial to never stop, so it needs a constant influx of Investiture through Allomancy. Ruin wants life to end as soon as possible (first it was at the agreed-upon time, and after he was betrayed it was as soon as he could escape), so Hemalurgy removes Investiture from the system. Feruchemy just rearranges when you are getting the Investiture; it doesn't put it into the world or take it out of the world, so it doesn't match with just one of the Shards.

[Edgedancer]

It's to se from the user PoV and Energy Managment.

 

In Allomancy you get the power from an outsider source (Preservation through metal) and in the end, you preserv your own energy.

In Feruchemy you get the power from yourself (without using some Hack) and you suffer some Ruinous effect to yourself (storing) to get a surplus later (taping).

You know, I'm not saying that this reasoning is wrong but it seems kind of... bland. I mean it would apply to every end-positive magic system, while other systems we have seen have something more unique to them. Not sure into how much details I should go into that on the Mistborn board but I'm pretty sure that if we were to discus other magic systems we'd concentrate on the requirements to become a magic user and not on how the fuel works. Scadrial even has something like this in the form of genetics, which preserve the magic from one generation to the next, yet it never comes up in any explanation of how the systems are assigned. It feel somewhat off to me to be entirely honest.

 

On the "Allomancy prevents etropy" argument... not really. The Investiture returns to Preservation, so it could only be applied to the physical metals (tin being somewhat of a stretch) and possibly cadium. On the other hand alluminium and Chromium removes energy potential from and the world and Bendalloy straight up speeds everything (entropy invluded) up.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Edgedancer

[Yata]

You know, I'm not saying that this reasoning is wrong but it seems kind of... bland. I mean it would apply to every end-positive magic system.

You have right but in the end preservation alone will "spawns" only End-Positive Magic Systems. Because the Preservation's magic tries to preserve the user.... I wanted only to point how Feruchemy isn't of Preservation alone ;-)

Edited April 25, 2016 by Yata

[Pagerunner]

Here's a Brandon quote on the subject:

 

Q: Allomancy provides many very dramatic effects, which some have noted is not very much like Preservation. Could you walk me through how Allomancy is of Preservation, though it does dramatic, dynamic things?

 

A: One of the 'basics' of the magic in all the worlds is that the energy of the Shards can fuel all kinds of interactions, not just interactions based on their personality/role. I did this because otherwise, the Magics would all be extremely limited.

 

The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do. So, in Preservation's case, the magic is a gift - allowing a person to preserve their own strength, and rely upon the strength granted by the magic. While Hemalurgy has a huge cost, ending in net entropy.

Source: http://theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=622#107

[natc]

You know, I'm not saying that this reasoning is wrong but it seems kind of... bland. I mean it would apply to every end-positive magic system, while other systems we have seen have something more unique to them. Not sure into how much details I should go into that on the Mistborn board but I'm pretty sure that if we were to discus other magic systems we'd concentrate on the requirements to become a magic user and not on how the fuel works. Scadrial even has something like this in the form of genetics, which preserve the magic from one generation to the next, yet it never comes up in any explanation of how the systems are assigned. It feel somewhat off to me to be entirely honest.

On the "Allomancy prevents etropy" argument... not really. The Investiture returns to Preservation, so it could only be applied to the physical metals (tin being somewhat of a stretch) and possibly cadium. On the other hand alluminium and Chromium removes energy potential from and the world and Bendalloy straight up speeds everything (entropy invluded) up.

Requirements to become a magic user range from "shard decided and it was so" and "just born that way" to specific behavior patterns, seemingly random and arbitrary, or in hemalurgy and forgery's cases absolutely nothing. It never checks out. At all.

Where the power comes from is really all you can use, because you sure as heck can't judge them by what they actually do. As nearly all magic can aid in bloody murder somehow.

[Oversleep]

The whole "Feruchemy is of Preservation" just keeps popping up. How about we make an official topic where we explain everything?

[Edgedancer]

Requirements to become a magic user range from "shard decided and it was so" and "just born that way" to specific behavior patterns, seemingly random and arbitrary, or in hemalurgy and forgery's cases absolutely nothing. It never checks out. At all.

Where the power comes from is really all you can use, because you sure as heck can't judge them by what they actually do. As nearly all magic can aid in bloody murder somehow.

This has fairly little to do with with Feruchemy anymore but to use Forgery you need to have spiritual connections to the area of MaiPon, which is the common factor for magic on Sel. It's the place that has the least obvious connection but of course its situation is also weird. Appart from that things like oaths and being endowed with Breath make perfect sense with their shards.